[Closed] Apple In-app purchases

My lad run up a bill over just under £45 on partner's iPhone which she didn't set up correctly. Cue a long apologetic email with some contractual/legal reasoning and the money was refunded. Good luck!!!

Yup someone on here posted similar a few weeks ago, Apple seem to reimburse.

In fact, I'm confident that this happened on the iPod touch previous to this and that was also refunded.

Kevster - do you have the contact details you used? She sent an email to Apple a week ago and no response 🙁

Depends on the cirumctances, there was a recent one where the child was five so all transactions were reimbursed.

Then there was another where the kid was a young teen and they were told to jog on, as a teen should have known better basically.

Whatever age your kids are, when you converse with Apple, they are no more than 4 or 5...

Go onto apple express lane, go onto the relevant section. Fill it in, no phone call even required. I can't remember the exact amount but my son spunked about £200 on bullets and weapons a couple of years ago. As a note tho, you only get one refund ever which they make patently clear in the accompanying email!

[url= https://expresslane.apple.com/GetproductgroupList.action?locale=en_GB ]Express lane[/url]

Will it work with drunken adults?

Ahhh - spent 5 mins going round in circles on the Express Lane website - anyone know what the relevant section is for this? No surprises it isn't openly listed.

rewski - Member
Will it work with drunken adults?

Probably not it's one of their big earners 🙂

There was a class action in the States over it I recall. Some very stern words from the judge about it being a very cynical business model especially as you are forced to register a CC...

 

especially as you are forced to register a CC..

The best forward if your kids have their own i[device] is to set them up with their own ID without a payment method so this sort of thing can't happen.

No you're not. There's a simple way to create an Apple ID without any payment method.

Please explain how. I thought you HAD to register a cc too.

There is an option to skip entering a CC. It is quite a small button/link though IIRC. You probably just glossed over it without seeing/reading it properly. I did this for my my mum as she didn't want to use her CC.

You can set the iPhone to demand the account password for in-App purchases, the default as a 15 min window after last entering the password where to can spend anything with no confirmation required.....

You can set the iPhone to demand the account password for in-App purchases, the default as a 15 min window after last entering the password where to can spend anything with no confirmation required.....

This can be amended to "immediate" so there is no "open" period of time once the password has been input.

zilog - Can you only opt out of the cc entry when first registering?

Or you can just Disable in app purchases full stop in the restrictions menu.

Or you can just Disable in app purchases full stop in the restrictions menu.

Good point but can you turn off purchases altogether? Don't have ipad with me otherwise would check myself.

I had a call from my bank on a Sunday evening to report possible fraudulent activity and it turned out to be my youngest playing clash of clans. He managed to spend over £300 on 'gems'.

I emailed Apple and after a few emails (very quick response on a Sunday) they had refunded the full amount by 8pm. Not a big fan of Apple but was impressed with that.

My first email was a bit of a rant about the ethics of these purchases etc. There was one option to buy gems for £69.99! £300 on something that does not exist.

At least when my wife blows money at the shops she comes back with some sort of rubbish.

One sorted turn off in app purchases and any card that is associated with the account.

Please explain how. I thought you HAD to register a cc too.

I emailed Apple and after a few emails (very quick response on a Sunday) they had refunded the full amount by 8pm. Not a big fan of Apple but was impressed with that.

I don't think they have a choice, the whole business is obviously completely cynical and relies on parents not realising they can demand a refund. Pretty evil business model if you think about it as it just turns parents against their children all to to make an obscenely wealthy company even more rich...

zilog - Can you only opt out of the cc entry when first registering?

I just confirmed that you can do this on my desktop. I'm sure you can do it via iPhone or iPad too though.

Clash of the clans was the culprit of my kids in-apps spending.

Pretty evil business model if you think about it as it just turns parents against their children all to to make an obscenely wealthy company even more rich...

Doesn't (most of) the money go the the game developers?

Doesn't (most of) the money go the the game developers?

Yep but apple takes a cut (20% I recall) of anything that happens on it's devices, you know like ford takes a cut every time you fill up.....

Doesn't (most of) the money go the the game developers?

But Apple allows kids to spend their parents money like that. They have shown no interest in stopping this eg changing default phone settings.

Oh I agree that its totally wrong, I'm not in the slightest defending apple. What confuses me is that why they think they will make more money having such silly high prices for these things, shirly if it was £5 instead of £70 more than 13 extra people would buy it? Have these people not heard of price elasticity?

, shirly if it was £5 instead of £70 more than 13 extra people would buy it? Have these people not heard of price elasticity?

Normally they have multiple options for smaller purchases with a tempting £70 "but look at the economies of scale" at the top of the pile.

the whole business is obviously completely cynical and relies on parents not realising they can demand a refund.

Erm.. I've bought a fair number of things via in-app purchases. I didn't think it was cynical at all and I don't think my parents are at all bothered.

Apple allows kids to spend their parents money like that. They have shown no interest in stopping this

You can't buy stuff without knowing the iTunes account password.
Plus In-App purchases can be explicitly locked out in Settings.
PLUS you can easily lock it so they can only use the app that is open when you hand it to them.

If folk hand their kids completely unrestricted access to their idevices, and then tell them their passwords, then I'm not sure you can lay the blame [i]entirely[/i] with Apple.

You can't buy stuff without knowing the iTunes account password.

You can for 15mins after the last time the password was entered. So parent buys new game for junior and hands iDevice to Junior. For 15 mins he can spend as much as he wants with no password.

Oh I agree that its totally wrong, I'm not in the slightest defending apple. What confuses me is that why they think they will make more money having such silly high prices for these things, shirly if it was £5 instead of £70 more than 13 extra people would buy it? Have these people not heard of price elasticity?

The aim is not at people who look at the prices - ie kids

You can't buy stuff without knowing the iTunes account password.
Plus In-App purchases can be explicitly locked out in Settings.
PLUS you can easily lock it so they can only use the app that is open when you hand it to them.

If folk hand their kids completely unrestricted access to their idevices, and then tell them their passwords, then I'm not sure you can lay the blame entirely with Apple.

I'm with GrahamS on this, there are lots if restrictions if you choose to use them, if you don't then you shouldn't complain when purchases are made. If you add in the Apple policy of giving you one chance to mess this up I think they're actually bring quite reasonable.

You can for 15mins after the last time the password was entered.

Also changeable in Settings.

If it was easy and well signposted..

I know. Placing the settings for restricting things under [i]Restrictions[/i] in the [i]Settings[/i] menu is terribly misleading. It's a wonder anyone can find it.

And then they are faced with an insanely complicated interface featuring the words "In-App Purchases" and an On/Off slider.

And there isn't even a manual! 😀

..rather than defaulting to kids can buy anything then fine.

I think they would piss off a lot more people by defaulting to locking everything down and forcing the majority of users to waste time unlocking basic functionality.

Apple already get enough stick for assuming their users are idiots.

Perhaps iOS 7 will have a "kids mode" or something - that'd be good.

Sorry but if you lead people to add a CC with a tiny not needed button then in App should be off by default. Click once to turn it on permanently or once only. It's a deliberate and cynical approach to getting cash.
I have no card associated with my android account and I'm an adult, no risk there.

The simple idea is that enough people wont even notice and carry on paying £5-10 per month rather than query or argue. Why does a company who prides itself on vetting the hell out of it's app store content allow things aimed at kids that have £70 purchases in them or any kind of spend possible? Why? because it's how they make money.

I have no card associated with my android account and I'm an adult, no risk there.

So you have to enter your card details every time you buy an app, or in-app purchase, or magazine, video, album etc?? Wow. That would be a right pain in the harris.

Why does a company who prides itself on vetting the hell out of it's app store content allow things aimed at kids that have £70 purchases in them or any kind of spend possible?

Because a surprising number of adults play these games? Plus of course there are always some kids who are spoilt rotten by their parents.

Are you saying that there aren't any "kids" apps on Android that have in-app purchases?

honestly I don't bother purchasing "in app" as my content is mostly on my PC, my music comes via Spotify (via PC purchase) and my reading material is paper - possible to old and new school all at once. Videos are free 🙂 Why anyone would spend £70 on gems in a online game is a strange one, perhaps a reminder would be good for all. All apps have In apps have in app stuff but android don't lead you to enter CC details, also they don't bank on about how safe and well vetted their app store is. It's a long fall from the moral high ground

Apple could pay up to $US100 million after it agreed to settle a class action lawsuit that said customers were charged when their children unwittingly bought apps from the company's online store, a court filing shows.

Are you saying that there aren't any "kids" apps on Android that have in-app purchases?

There are, and afaik the defaults are equally cynical and wrong. It should be off by default, and the first time you try to use it it should pop up a message asking if you want to change the setting, enter your password and then it works. Of course, if you tell your kids the password you're screwed, but then that's completely your fault.

I set up an Apple ID for my daughter at Christmas with no CC attached. I don't remember it being too difficult to sort out. If she wants to buy anything she has to save her pocket money for an iTunes card.

If you don't want to set up a new ID, then go to your payment setting and just put a load of rubbish in the number fields.

Sorry but if you lead people to add a CC with a tiny not needed button then in App should be off by default.

Rubbish.

A £500 iPhone/iPad is aimed at Adults.

Why should it come set up for kids by default ?

If people want to let their kids use them, they will need to make sure it's safe, and suitable, for them to do so.

Just like they should be doing with everything they let their kids do.

For example, my Nephew does not have the passwords for my online Banking App, or the PIN for my credit cards.

Similarly, he doesn't know my Apple Password either, and it is set up so he would need it to buy anything.

Kids mode you say?

http://osxdaily.com/2012/09/25/enable-guided-access-ios/

Rubbish.

A £500 iPhone/iPad is aimed at Adults.

Why should it come set up for kids by default ?

Most parents with I-stuff hand them to kids at any chance they have to shut them up. It's not protecting just informing that it's going to cost x. It's like spam bots getting you to click links.

Kids mode you say?

http://osxdaily.com/2012/09/25/enable-guided-access-ios/

Ditto everything nealglover just said.

Kids mode you say?

Yeah I use guided access a lot at the moment and it is very good (mentioned it earlier). But I was thinking of a more complete kids mode where one click puts the phone/pad into a (configurable) locked down mode.

(e.g. no purchasing, no deleting, no in-app, no calls, no texts, no email, selected apps only, whitelisted websites only, no access to settings, volume limited, no "may offend" music etc etc)

(e.g. no purchasing, no deleting, no in-app, no calls, no texts, no email, selected apps only, whitelisted websites only, no access to settings, volume limited, no "may offend" music etc etc)

Really sounds like you'd be better off giving them a toy, rather than $500 product aimed at adults

I found the easiest way was not to link any card to the account and if you need to buy something buy an iTunes card at the pfs then they can only spend what credit is on the card. You have to create the apple account on the device as on the pc through iTunes requires a card to b link, you can however take this off once you have an apple id.

Really sounds like you'd be better off giving them a toy, rather than $500 product aimed at adults

She has an [url= http://www.vtechuk.com/innotab/InnoTab2Pink/ ]InnoTab[/url] too, but that's not always to hand (whereas my phone is) plus most of the apps on it are pricey and many are not very good IMO.

I found the easiest way was not to link any card to the account and if you need to buy something buy an iTunes card

That sounds considerably more hassle than just changing a few settings.

I found the easiest way was not to link any card to the account and if you need to buy something buy an iTunes card at the pfs then they can only spend what credit is on the card.

Was that before you read this thread, full of people pointing out how easy it is to change a couple of settings and solve the problem in seconds ?

Seems it's relatively easy and simple to avoid being ripped off if you know there are settngs you need to change.

Which pretty much defines the whole set-up as a scam targetted at extracting money from the inattentive, the unaware and those without mental capacity.

That's cynical.

Seems it's relatively easy and simple to avoid being ripped off if you know there are settngs you need to change.

Thats what I thought but never underestimate some peoples desire to blame somebody else for their own unwillingness to parent.

Which pretty much defines the whole set-up as a scam targetted at extracting money from the inattentive, the unaware and those without mental capacity.

No, out of the box it's set up to be simple, easy and convenient to use for a grown adult - the target market. Apple don't anticipate that people will buy an expensive device, enter their credit card number into it, then hand it off for a child to use unsupervised.

Our 3-year-old uses a spare old iPad. It's really very, very easy to lock it down.

Which pretty much defines the whole set-up as a scam targetted at extracting money from the inattentive, the unaware and those without mental capacity.

I think that would only be true if the majority of in-app purchases were made "accidentally" or by people that didn't understand it was [i]actual money[/i].

I suspect you will find that the vast majority of purchases are made deliberately by functioning adults who are quite happy to spend money on a magazine, a map, or even virtual gems and gold.

It's only cynical in that it removes as many barriers as possible to purchasing to encourage you to impulse buy (see also One-click purchasing on Amazon, and saved credit card details on Wiggle!)

ben, I absolutely take your point. Sensible, attentive, aware people shouldn't get caught.

The option's still there to charge people who aren't all three of those £70 a time for bullshine. Which isn't nice.

Edit, Graham, missed yours. The phone went while the reply box was open.

purchases are made deliberately by functioning adults who are quite happy to spend money on... virtual gems and gold

ned: true but I don't know what you do about that. If someone is "not all there" but has access to a credit card then how do you stop them spending money (on an iPad, or indeed anywhere at all?)

And if people who [i]are[/i] all there [i]want[/i] to spend £70 then how do you allow that but prevent others?

people who are all there want to spend £70

That's the bit I don't get in relation to the games. I'm thinking 2 circles in a venn diagram which don't overlap.

I don't really care that much, to be honest. I'm not beating a drum for the protection of the stupid. I just see the low end of these in-app purchases (eg big charges in kid's games) as the same boat as whole load of other things which prey on the inertia, innatention, inaction of consumers in order to make money. "introductory offers" new bank charges, amazon prime, insurance renewals...

There's an upside in some areas, like financial products, as it allows the more lively among us to make hay while the sun shines, so to speak, and move on to pastures new, letting the banks take their pound of flesh from those who aren't on top of things. (metaphor blender!)

I agree that on the Ipad and other devices there is protection, but when my wife got it she didn't even think about doing it (I did it on the other devices) before she let the kids have a go.

But the other issue is - why aim a game at under 10 year olds and have in-app purchases, especially where it promotes buying gems which cost between £1 and £70 - My kids don't understand the value of money and she didn't realise it was real money (although she does not after I told her this means no birthday or Xmas presents for her - which incidentally made her cry this morning)

> people who are all there want to spend £70

That's the bit I don't get. I'm thinking 2 circles in a venn diagram which don't overlap.

They'd probably say the same about anyone who spends more than £200 on a bike 😀

I've never seen the point in buying "virtual gold" myself. It's not that I don't game. I do. I'm just old enough to consider such shortcuts as cheating.

But [i]some[/i] big in-app purchases [i]do[/i] make sense, even to non-gamer types (e.g. TomTom Traffic add-on £24, Cyclist magazine 12-month sub £50, Lake District maps for ViewRanger £50 etc)

the other issue is - why aim a game at under 10 year olds and have in-app purchases, especially where it promotes buying gems which cost between £1 and £70

So why let your kids play such a game if you disagree with its approach to making money?

Especially on an unrestricted device.

Edit: never mind.

and saved credit card details on Wiggle!

Anyone who saves their credit card details on wiggle needs their heads seeing to, given their history!

As for the cost of apps - that's the funding model. Cheap first purchase whilst continuing to pay through in-app purchases. The alternative is pay a lot more for the app up front. People in selling things to make money shocker.

I think the problem is that people still assume that games are aimed at children, when the majority of iOS/Android apps are aimed at adults. For example, Candy Crush looks very cutesy and bright, but the vast majority of its players are in the 24 - 55 year old bracket. Same with Clash of Clans.

Free to play games (where they're free to download, but have IAPs) still cost money to develop, and the way companies recoup those costs are through the IAPs - they avoid issues with piracy and, if they're successful, can make more than if they'd followed the traditional business model of "make game, release at RRP, all content up front".

The problem is that, out of all the players that will download a F2P game, only 3-5% will monetise. So there's a lot of 'Whale' chasing - a whale being a gamer who is willing to invest large amounts of cash on the game. For example, the top Clash of Clans player has spent $7000 on gems. Something like the top 10% of players that do monetise are responsible for 50% of IAP income, hence why there's often 'whale chasing' (the £20+ IAPs).

The games are built around compulsion loops and various tactics to encourage people to continue to play, to monetise and getting the playerbase to promote their game (seen more in Facebook games), hooking in more people through social obligation.

I think it's more the responsibility of the parent to ensure the security of their phone or tablet, rather than expecting the manufacturers to completely child-proof a device that isn't aimed at kids. Same with PCs for that matter, I still remember that toddler who bought a JCB off eBay. I guess we'll see less of these stories as people become tech savvy (plus the Office of Fair Trading is currently investigating in-app purchases! :P)

All this recent stuff about overspending on apps, reminds me of the furore a few years ago about mobile phone charges overseas & people racking up huge phone bills while on holiday in Tenerife.

Even though the costs are outlined when you buy the contract.
Even though you get a text when you arrive telling you how much it costs.
Even though calls abroad have always been pricey.

It was the phone companies ripping off the poor, unsuspecting consumer.....yep, of course...

Wahey!!! Apple refunded the full amount 🙂 Cheers for all the advice!

Congratulations!