[Closed] Apparently I need mentoring....

Mentoring can be really good, but I’m not sure that’s what is really going on here from what you’ve said. First thing though is to be clear what you want to get out of it, and have a really good discussion with the mentor about what he thinks you want from it.

It sounds to me though like your current manager may just be trying to pass the buck!

Oh, and 52 is no age - you’re never too old to learn new stuff!

So glad I'm retired

I have read about it in management books (I can picture one in my office called Multipliers i think but could be wrong) but never seen it in practice.
If done well it is very useful and is usually best if sponsored by senior management. It is a big commitment both ways so hopefully it isn't just a box ticking exercise. Hopefully it is a sign that they see that your talents are worth investing in.

Mentoring can be really useful if done properly, both the mentor and the mentee can gain a lot from it.

If it's just a box-ticking exercise don't bother.

Maybe he's setting you up for reverse mentoring - where staff who know what's happening on the ground and how the systems and processes actually work get an opportunity to pass on their concerns to senior management.

Whatever, if senior management are prepared to spend time talking to you, it can't be bad.

I’m going for someone else’s box ticking (probably the DD) at least mentoring isn’t usually part of the performance development plan for under-performance.
DD might be quite useful to know in the longer run.

Anyone been mentored like this before, not sure what to expect. Especially given that it isn’t really my idea – I’m 52, no real ambitions other than to be good at this job. I am wondering if I’m the victim of someone else’s box ticking exercise to be honest

One of my colleague was once performance reviewed and they asked him what's his ambition was, what to improve etc. Problem is he was near his retirement age at that time and had no further ambition other than to looking forward to his retirement (he is retiring soon); and had to be creative in coming up with some BS just to fulfill the bureaucrats request. Took him a while to write some BS and the end result was the same. ie. No increment nor promotion etc but merely as continue his position.

In your case, you should try to improve your acting skills (perform emotional labour) and pretend to be someone (make sure this fits you well and not stress you up) and go along with the flow. Otherwise they will start to use all sort of BS to pin it on you as excuse.

They tried the same tactic on me once and I was really enthusiastic (being a zero hour contract worker) thinking that I would get full contract, so told them to give me all the full time hour and more ... guess what, they stopped having performance review on me after that. I wonder why. You see as zero hour contract worker we want as many hour as possible to work, where as the full-time workers just want the full-time pay but work as little as possible.

I'm now expected to mentor at work, not quite sure how it's going to happen yet, but I'm in the process of beginning the review/ goal setting of my reports and I'm encouraging them to find achievable goals from the roadmap as well as some things I want them to build on.

Perhaps the Peter Principle at play...?

If it's not in response to anything obvious then it could well be a tick box exercise for your manager seeking evidence of staff improvement or managing difficult situations. Its happened to me where I've done well overall but they've picked up on one mistake to introduce measures.

Tell them to **** off....

Christ i hate this type of shite...

Small minded worthless approach to running a business and working with humans..

This is why this country is shit.

after another disagreement with my manager this morning about how I comment about issues with systems and processes – never rude or inappropriate language, I would add – he has decided I need some mentoring

Maybe I'm alone in this, but it sounds like your "mentoring" might be enhanced surveillance by management. To be blunt, are you being a moaning/rude bastard?

Maybe I’m alone in this, but it sounds like your “mentoring” might be enhanced surveillance by management.

It is, it is just another way of saying we are monitoring the hell out of you closely in a passive aggressive way.

To be blunt, are you being a moaning/rude bastard?

If you are then they don't like you for being yourself as they see that as trying to bring down the atmosphere of the place.

I do mentoring within my job, mainly new starts or those at lower grades, start off with the basics, i.e. give them the mandatory training, understanding, etc, working up to specific training, guidance and advice and on the job stuff as well as peer reviews and so on. I do the mentoring for a few as i've been around this job and work for 27 years and have been through the processes, training, etc, know where to point for good practice and useful contacts and so on as well.

First thing i would say though, is this actually mentoring, or is it some type of deficiency training, mentoring and retraining are two completely different things, with two different perceived outcomes!

First thing i would say though, is this actually mentoring, or is it some type of deficiency training, mentoring and retraining are two completely different things, with two different perceived outcomes!

If the job is the same with no new system and process introduced etc then at 52 you have the experience to put your point forward. Problem is that they don't like your attitude for telling them they are wrong. That's because you will make them look like donkeys and they don't like that. You are supposed to be donkey in the hierarchical order.

Maybe I’m alone in this, but it sounds like your “mentoring” might be enhanced surveillance by management. To be blunt, are you being a moaning/rude bastard?

I have certainly not been rude, or moaning, but I will explain where I think things need improving, and I won't back down if I believe I'm correct when my manager (who colleagues may refer to as dictatorial) pushes back.

He's a new manager (though older than me) and I think is a bit too keen to prove himself.

If they need to put me under increased surveillance, I'm not sure they'd pass the job to someone 3-4 grades further up the food chain.

I'm concocting my opening email to him (or his PA) for the morning and we'll see what he offers me.

I'd try and use it to my advantage. You've got the ear of someone a few pay grades above your manager. Come across as compliant and keen to talk through issues and use it as an opportunity to discuss said issues. Say that perhaps instead of mentoring you'd prefer a coaching style to discuss concerns and solutions.

Yeah, maybe Im getting too cynical but it doesn't sound like a genuine offer of mentoring to me. However as per previous post you may well be able to use it to your advantage.

If they need to put me under increased surveillance, I’m not sure they’d pass the job to someone 3-4 grades further up the food chain.

If it's proper mentoring by someone that far above you then you have dropped into the talent pool. The DD wouldn't have the time to waste on a disciplinary

I’m concocting my opening email to him (or his PA) for the morning and we’ll see what he offers me.

this is why your boss is sending you for mentoring. its not an email that needs concocting:

Hello Bob,

I believe Dan has recommended that you might be a suitable mentor for me. Is there a time that would be good to jump on a call together to chat through what it involves?

Thanks,

MCTD

I suspect the problem with your comments is you are crafting them, and making them electronically rather than f2f or on the phone. I know this because I have employed a guy like this for years - he's bloody good at his job, his points are usually valid but jesus he can make a meal of getting his point across, piss off a load of people and has zero perspective on which battles are the ones to prioritise or dig in.

I've sat on both sides and found it useful. I volunteer for the social mobility foundation and mentor A-level aged youngsters. My role is to be an experienced person they can talk to, ask question, sound out ideas. I prompt them to think about certain things and give them some tips and advice.

I've had mentors in work. Same idea. Someone I can talk to, if needed off the record. Ask advice about things I'm struggling with. Receive advice based on experience or just talk something through to get a second opinion. It can work if if both parties want it to. Early in my work life I had a couple of directors as mentors on a graduate scheme. I got some great insight and advice. More recently I had a mentor as part of training in a new job. Someone to help me get up to speed with processes, policies (and politics).

I'd make the call, set something up. Start off informally. But ultimately discuss the problem. Say you can see issues but you want to get buy in. Frustratingly, explaining the problem to people and even a solution doesn't always work - people have other drivers than facts and logic.

yeah speak to him f2f or on the phone.

I had similar doubts about it all being BS and resisted it until I met some guys I worked with 10-154 years ago when I was their boss and the both said how much they appreciated my mentoring. I had no idea what they were talking about as all I had done was talk about how I approached problemsa nd asked them what they did and thought about.

Turns out that is mentoring. Really easy as a mentor and seems to help those mentored.

I am currently a Cultural Ambassador and an Intergenerational Spokesperson. Basically this means chatting to people and helping them understand what is actually wanted from them. It is amazing the stresses and worries people build up base on unmentioned expectations that never actually existed.

It seems a really good chance to ask the bosses "Why" and trying to understand the end objectives rather than the immediate demand.

I was a cynic but am now a supporter purely based on the evidence I have seen.

Hello Bob,

I believe Dan has recommended that you might be a suitable mentor for me. Is there a time that would be good to jump on a call together to chat through what it involves?

Thanks,

MCTD

This sounds good to find out a bit more ...

I know this because I have employed a guy like this for years – he’s bloody good at his job, his points are usually valid but jesus he can make a meal of getting his point across, piss off a load of people and has zero perspective on which battles are the ones to prioritise or dig in.

Yes, my soon to be retired colleague is about the same. Very good at his job but people just find it hard to communicate with him. Problem is his is very good at what he is doing but people above are not. When he corrected them once too often they got piss off by him. Is that his fault or the so called "managers" fault?

Turn up, nod, take the money, go home, think nice thoughts, be nice to those who deserve it

I have employed a guy like this for years – he’s bloody good at his job, his points are usually valid but jesus he can make a meal of getting his point across, piss off a load of people and has zero perspective on which battles are the ones to prioritise or dig in.

What's his STW username?

Sometimes personalities don't mix too well. If your manager is any good and he realises this and that you and he might not 'gel' he could have been quite insightful. Put you in front of another person that might take things on board.

He could also agree with the points your making and think it would be better if you were the direct messenger rather than trying to push it up the line himself (he may have been trying but have not found anyone receptive.)

Turn up, nod, take the money, go home

Yep. What do you want? Your livelihood or a fight?

It's fine to let things be imperfect sometimes, especially for an easy life.

I remember being told I required mentoring when my boss thought I was shit at my job. I however thought my boss was shit at her job and the problem wasn’t me, it was them. Anyway, started the mentoring process with some bloke my boss thought knew best, and who I thought was also part of the problem

Fast forward two years, I learned nothing from the mentoring process but am back in favour with my company, whilst my old boss has long left and the guy who was my mentor is now looked upon with universal disdain

The moral of the story.. basically if you find yourself working for someone with a different style to you or whom you don’t see eye to eye with, you are on to a lost cause…

I suspect the problem with your comments is you are crafting them, and making them electronically rather than f2f or on the phone. I know this because I have employed a guy like this for years – he’s bloody good at his job, his points are usually valid but jesus he can make a meal of getting his point across, piss off a load of people and has zero perspective on which battles are the ones to prioritise or dig in.

Bloody hell Brian, didn't know you were on here!

Thanks for the thoughts, good and bad. Nothing ventured and all that!

I had similar doubts about it all being BS and resisted it until I met some guys I worked with 10-154 years ago

Been in the role a while then?

I had some of this a few years ago at my request, to try and get better at dealing with difficult people. I learned a lot about myself and something about other people, but the main thing I learned is that complete *s like my boss will always be complete *s.

I'd have misgivings, it sounds to me like officially bureaucratised micromanagement and bullying. Avoid revealing too much or giving home truths that will subsequently be used to put you on your back foot. When I was involved with reviews and mentoring I saw it as a vehicle for getting the best out of what people brought to the party not telling them they'd got it all wrong and that I was going to shrink them to size by monitoring their every move. This BS is the opposite of encouraging innovation, commitment, loyalty and wellbeing, and don't narcissists just love it.

Playing devils advocate here, as someone who hosts the odd call or face to face meeting, I find people that do this quite annoying on the call, sometimes it is difficult to reign people in from doing it constantly, derailing a call completely, impacting peoples engagement or just being a drain on energy levels! If doing this constantly you might be impacting not only the manager but the team too.

after another disagreement with my manager this morning about how I comment about issues with systems and processes – never rude or inappropriate language, I would add – he has decided I need some mentoring

Two things come to mind, 1, have you tried just biting your tongue? then 2, is this the hill you want to die on?

Have you seen Game of Spies? two lines from that movie always stuck with me: "the boss isn't always right, but he's always the boss" and how calm the Russian spy remains, just replying with "would it help" when faced with varying situations.

This is a pretty strange situation. Firstly it really doesn't sound like mentoring, more that your line manager can't seem to deal with you but oddly rather than firing you (simple enough as a new starter) he seems to be passing the buck to someone more senior. To me that's either because he wants a second opinion before firing you or you're valuable enough that they don't want to fire you and are trying to figure out a way of managing you.

Mentoring is more to bring you up to speed in a new role (usually a management role) where you need to learn new people skills and ways of working - but from the sounds of it you don't need that.

and I won’t back down if I believe I’m correct when my manager (who colleagues may refer to as dictatorial) pushes back

The above is a bit alarming (that you won't back down), unless something is being done that's actually damaging (people, reputation, financially etc.)  then even if you think your way is better I don't think it's really your place to do anything other than offering up your suggestion of a better way of doing it. If your manager doesn't take that on-board you have to leave it at that and either do it his way or leave.

There's plenty of bullshit processes in place where I work and I'd certainly be more efficient if I could side-step or change them to suit me but that's not how things work, especially at at large company. On the flip side one of our performance review objectives is to demonstrate finding better/more efficient ways of doing parts of our job so at least it's generally encouraged - where you work sounds a bit more set in stone (or at least your line manager is).

I'd use the process to explore whether there might genuinely be a better way to approach your concerns.

Be totally open with this big cheese about what's led to this, and ask for a different perspective or tactics for the issue. Keeping emotion out of it, obvs.

You'll either learn something or the big cheese will end up sharing your frustations.

You might not end up with any immediate changes, but the process itself could be useful anyway.

Maybe mentoring is the first step on some kind of performance process. i.e. they have to have said they tried mentoring before issuing a performance improvement plan.

Maybe your boss is trying to get you a voice at a higher level because he wants them to hear what you're saying.

Difficult to know. Approach with an open mind but caution.

sometimes it is difficult to reign people in from doing it constantly, derailing a call completely, impacting peoples engagement or just being a drain on energy levels!

...and if they're actually right that only makes it worse!

I’ve had mentors in work. Same idea. Someone I can talk to, if needed off the record. Ask advice about things I’m struggling with. Receive advice based on experience or just talk something through to get a second opinion. It can work if if both parties want it to. Early in my work life I had a couple of directors as mentors on a graduate scheme. I got some great insight and advice. More recently I had a mentor as part of training in a new job. Someone to help me get up to speed with processes, policies (and politics).

...is mentoring as I understand it. Someone knowledgeable (not necessarily about your particular job and not necessarily in your organisation as long as they have insight) to talk to as a friendly third party, to get another view on things, use as a sounding board, help you decide on how to handle situations, or think about what you want to do next. Line managers are too close and have too much of their own interests on the line to do this. It's something I've seen really help people in early career and regret not having had myself (though I've set up a couple of schemes/had coaching and am surprisingly fluent in applied bollocks. Actually in late, er I guess I have to call it "career" as I am, I could actually do with this now myself...)

Sounds unlikely a director several notches up in your org would be involved in bullying micromanagement, unless as a bit of fun in their spare time.

Typically a mentor would be selected by the employee as someone they see as a being a good mentor for them, i.e. they respect them, they feel they could learn from them, be open with them

A mentor is not usually selected for you and you are not usually told to have a mentor. Seems to be the wrong way around on this one.

In the civil service mentoring is a big thing atm because it sounds like the sort of thing private industry does so therefore must be good, you can stick it down on application forms along with agile and whatever bs bingo is de jour and most importantly it is cheap. There is little training budgets about so mentoring allows the veneer of personal development to be applied without spending any cash.
Sometimes it’s very good, I currently manage a mentoring programme for operatives, as part of a training pathway, which is effective and probably the best way of training them and sometimes it’s a cheap half-arsed scheme.

I am CS, so agree it's a bit flavour of the month.

Email sweated over and sent. His PA may take one look and file it in the "Delete" pile

I’d have misgivings, it sounds to me like officially bureaucratised micromanagement and bullying.

I pick on this but there are several others I could have used as the example. But really?

I have mentored and mentee'd.

First and foremost you need to ensure that you get on with your mentor / mentee relationship, I've found it works best if you are not in the same work area. Then you can be honest about issues you/they are facing without necessarily the mentor having any control or influence over the issues specifically. I've asked in the past if they want any intervention by me and generally the answer is no, they just want some advice how to handle - sometimes procedures, often politics.

It can be really helpful particularly for people finding their way in the organisation; navigating 'how to do things round here', particular styles, etc. Also for people progressing up the ladder, helping them for that next role / to settle into that role. I don't believe in vanilla-ising yourself totally to fit in, but if you rub everyone up the wrong way in the modern workplace it doesn't matter how good you are at your job, it will not be appreciated.

Yes, there are pitfalls and if the mentor is only there to then grass you up to your line manager then it would be misused, but done properly can be very useful. I have certainly benefited.

As suggested above, all the email needs to say is that you'd like a chat, and then take it from there.

Have you seen Game of Spies? two lines from that movie always stuck with me: “the boss isn’t always right, but he’s always the boss” and how calm the Russian spy remains, just replying with “would it help” when faced with varying situations.

Bridge of Spies.....

NB Poss confusing it with 'Spy Game' which is another excellent film...

If it’s proper mentoring by someone that far above you then you have dropped into the talent pool. The DD wouldn’t have the time to waste on a disciplinary

+1

A DD isn't going to waste their time 'mentoring' you as some sort of surveillance exercise, that's nonsense. Sounds like a great opportunity to me.

Maybe the mentoring is to equip you with the skill of explaining your reasonable professional opinion without being hostile. If you regularly get into situations where "you won't back down" from disagreements with your boss, that's a worry...and it's not necessarily "backing down" just because you don't get your way...

I’d have misgivings, it sounds to me like officially bureaucratised micromanagement and bullying.

Micromanagement and bullying!?!?! He's been telt to have some chats with another manager ffs

I have certainly not been rude, or moaning, but I will explain where I think things need improving, and I won’t back down if I believe I’m correct when my manager (who colleagues may refer to as dictatorial) pushes back.

this is a problem - you need to learn to back down, or back down gracefully without compromising your integrity etc etc

These things are what you make of them. Decide what you want to get out this, and stop being sarcky about it, would be my advice.

Well, we're booking a slot in our diaries for next week as we speak.....🤞

Can this mentoring lark take place outside of the workplace
Friday afternoon in the pub being mentored sounds ace. Win win. Or golf course, or a nice walk round a lake. Good for ticking the mental health, team building, covid friendly environment plus lakes dont have ears and you can probably actually achieve something positive.

It does sound a little bit like new kid is rocking the boat saying what we all know out loud, but if he says it too loud upstairs might overhear, then we will all look like tools for not mentioning ot sooner, or / and.. This is what we have been saying for years and got nowhere with upstairs, now its your go.

Sounds like a great opportunity to me. Having been mentored and mentored others you have to enter into it with an open mind.

Yes there is a lot of management bullshit and flavour of the month type stuff but that 10% that is useful can really help.

What’s his STW username?

As far as I know he's not on here. He does drive an Audi though! And not too keen on cycling so you never know!