[Closed] Apostrophe's

don't get me started on [i]panini's[/i]

[img] [/img]

i am constantly baffled by the apostraphe.

but i'm sure i've got a vague idea of what they mean, and i'm keen to try, so i tend to get a bit carried away.

I'm inconsistent because i realise i'm probably getting it wrong, so make sure i get it wrong in lots of different ways - i'm playing a numbers game here, i can't be wrong all the time!

Getting it consistently wrong is inexcusable,

[i]inexcusable[/i]...? really?

The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.

.

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I'm - I am
I've - I have
I's - I is

I's therefore I'm. - I is theerefore I am, innit.

It's not a difficult rule to learn, is it?

I've been caught out by spell checkers a few times, especially on phones if you post and don't notice the change. It's also a while since I was at school so some more obscure grammer escapes my memory.

You can usually tell by the whole post if it's a typo or something deserving of the grammer police.

Facebook posts on some Mountain Bike groups make me cringe at times, seen far to many problems with breaks and if someone carnt get there breaks working then I die a little inside.

Language evolves admittedly, but so does stupid unfortunately 🙁

Bitchin' thread!

From the pic up there... there's nothing wrong with [i]Jones's[/i]. Where a word ends with an S, a possessive apostrophe can be used with or without a final S.

Once this issue has been resolved, can we move on to the correct usage of the Oxford comma?

failure breeds failure

I learned how to use them in primary school, as did most, i expect

but with so many example's 😉 seen daily, it's overruled that part of the brain, so spurious ' get typed because spurious ' is becoming the norm.

ban apostrophe's 😉 and then nobody can get them wrong.

WGAF except pedants, and WGAF about their opinion?

One panino.
Two panini.

Seems to be a problem (with exceptions) limited to anglophones. My students are learning English as a 2nd or 3rd language and they almost never have a problem with it.

can we move on to the correct usage of the Oxford comma?

WGAF except pedants, and WGAF about their opinion?

Yeah, let's.

and Captial's what about the correct use of Capitals? 😀

On a similar note...

[url=

View this post on Instagram

]"Food Now Been Served"[/url]

z1ppy
It's the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit. So get your shit together.

Having English as my second language I find I have no problems with using the " ' ". I had it covered nicely on my English lessons. My native language does not use apostrophe, maybe that's why it was easy to understand and learn what does it do?

But reading emails from my native-English work colleagues or clients often rises a solid "WTF?" question in my mind.

It's probably worth explaining how to use an apostrophe with a nice, easy to understand graphic:

[img] [/img]

WGAF except pedants, and WGAF about their opinion?

People who still care about life, those that haven't given up on living?

I'm inconsistent because i realise i'm probably getting it wrong, so make sure i get it wrong in lots of different ways - i'm playing a numbers game here, i can't be wrong all the time!

Being wrong five times in one sentence says you probably can.

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According to the office grammar nazi/proof reader, I am one of the worst offenders for poor grammar and spelling.
However, I am able to tell you why an apostrophe should be used.
[img] [/img]

I blame grocer's.

Mister P - Member

Being wrong five times in one sentence says you probably can.

(genuinely keen to learn) where'd i go wrong?

is that one just there wrong too?

I assume the numerous wrong apostrophes (not apostrope's) in OP's post are taking the p@ss?! (Post's / posts; wrong's / wrongs; accusation's / accusations)

(genuinely keen to learn) where'd i go wrong?

is that one just there wrong too?

where d'

I assume the 5 mistakes mister p mentioned were not capitalising "I"

I was never really taught correct use of grammar and punctuation. It was just something that some of us picked up. Most of what I know was picked up over a long period of time - some more recently.

Interestingly punctuation and grammar is now a heavy part of a child's English lessons at school. 6-7 year olds are supposed to be able to use an apostrophe correctly for contraction. 7-8 year olds are supposed to be able to use them to show singular and plural possession.

It's and its used to catch me out.

I studied language and linguistics at uni and my life is a constant succession of seeing others' grammar mistakes.

Misuse of colons and semicolons causes me pain although so does incorrect use of en and em dashes so I'm a little more grammar Nazi-ey than most!

It's and it's used to catch me out.

Still does apparently! No apostrophe for the possessive as it's a possessive pronoun in itself.

Slight digression. I've just been in a meeting where someone said "brought" instead of "bought".

I thought that was just a forum numpty thing, not something that people actually said out loud.

Misuse of colons and semicolons causes me pain

Should've - should of...

Grrrrr

^^^ "Should have" does sound a bit like you're saying "should of", when it's contracted/unstressed, ie. /'??d?v/ , so maybe forgivable for someone who doesn't write much.

Like, "There's two"; it's grammatically incorrect but it's easier to say than "there are two" so we write it that way too.

For a start DONK, to introduce a clarification, which i take to be synonymous with "If a sentence is dragging on a bit..." you use a colon.

[i]I ate loads for tea: chicken and mash and carrots and peas and a litre of gravy.[/i]

Colon for a tabulated list.

Colon before a direct quotation where the quotation clarifies the point.

[i]She said the last thing I wanted to her: 'tomorrow we start the diet'.[/i]

An introductory line before more than three lines of quoted text.

[i]My favourite toast must be this:

blah blah blah
something Shakespearean
thus unto all ye
[/i]

You can use a semicolon to join two clauses which themselves could stand as complete sentences. Usually used to balance or contrast the thrust of the two clauses. Usually use a comma before a conjunction except before the following which should be preceeded by a colon:

however
therefore
meanwhile
also
consequently
nevertheless

and a couple of others.

Semicolons ca also be used in lists to mark of items in a list.

tl;dr

If in doubt, use a semicolon and explain it away as a typo.

From the pic up there... there's nothing wrong with Jones's. Where a word ends with an S, a possessive apostrophe can be used with or without a final S.

Well it's betterer to include the s if it's pronounced as it is here, if not pronounced then it's best left out.

The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.

Arf.

D0NK - Member

I assume the 5 mistakes mister p mentioned were not capitalising "I"

pfft, is that all? i'm a busy man, i haven't got time for that kind of flamboyance...

[i]Usually use a comma before a conjunction, except before the following, which should be preceeded by a colon[/i]

Is how Id right that.

"beej - Member

One panino.
Two panini. "

Is it not

One Paninus
Two Panini?

😉

@Dez 🙂 true

Is it not

One Paninus
Two Panini?

But it's [url= http://journals.cambridge.org/repo_A891oVFh ]Italian[/url], not Latin.

Besides, no one wants to eat something that sounds suspiciously like a cross between penis and anus!

The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe.

the following which should be preceeded by a colon:

however
therefore
meanwhile
also
consequently
nevertheless

I'm still waiting for the OP to clarify which of the apostrophe's possessions we're discussing.

Slight digression. I've just been in a meeting where someone said "brought" instead of "bought".
I thought that was just a forum numpty thing, not something that people actually said out loud.

I'd like to run some drops, and move to road [i][b]hydro's[/b][/i] for braking. I'm not wanting to start having 11 speed anything and would like to continue using MTB 10 speed gear. So, mechs, casettes, chains etc:

All road full [b][i]hydros[/i][/b]....

Abbreviation or not, ARGH!

hydrau's FTW

Grammar. It's grammar.

I get a little bit bothered by accronyms that are followed by 's. It seems that on ocassion people who seemingly know how to use apostrophes decide that an accronym needs one.

I used to work for a company that were involved in Energy Performance Certificates, the amount of time I saw EPC's written was silly.

Good work with the Bob the Angry Flower cartoon, Willard! I grabbed a link to it when I started reading the thread but then I discovered that you'd beaten me to it. 🙂

I don't consider myself to be particularly good with grammar or punctuation but once a rule does get lodged into my head I become really aware when I see it broken. Someone explained when to use less and when to use fewer to me a few years ago and it's like a painful itch when I read "10 items or less" or similar phrases.

I's therefore I'm. - I is the[b][s]e[/s][/b]refore I am, i[b]'[/b]n[b]'[s]n[/s][/b]it.

@Hammerite - I'd disagree. If the purpose of language is to communicate and the purpose of punctuation is to increase clarity and decrease potential for confusion then there's a great reason for an apostrophe 's' following an acronym. Besides which, acronyms themselves used to need to be pronounciable (<< should be a word) such as NATO.

@ChrisL

That's why I go to Waitrose

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I get a little bit bothered by accronyms that are followed by 's

I pointed this out to my boss who argued so I googled and proved it; he still uses his apostrophe.

Many people also use them when talking about decades - The 80's?!

Yeah but "80's music" say could refer to music of the 1980s...

Whatever, it's all shite (apostrophes, not 80s music which was just mainly shite). If they were banned tomorrow, would anyone seriously start misunderstanding stuff? Other than a few grammar numpties doing it deliberately?

...hang on there's one. Full stop inside or outside brackets? I'm sure that inside is right (think how wrong it would look to put a question mark outside?) But most people put them outside, so I've started to do the same. He said, parenthetically.

[quote=johnx2 ]...hang on there's one. Full stop inside or outside brackets? I'm sure that inside is right (think how wrong it would look to put a question mark outside?)

Well let's start with that question mark being totally unnecessary, because I can't see what the question is. I presume you meant something like:

I'm sure that inside is right (wouldn't the question mark look wrong outside?)

However what about this one, where the question is outside the parentheses:

Is inside right (I think it's wrong to put a question mark outside)?

Fundamentally, almost all the time it's correct to put the full stop outside, as otherwise you haven't terminated the sentence outside properly (inside would only be required if you were terminating the inside sentence and not the outside one, which would be odd).

Well let's start with that question mark being totally unnecessary,

I could be speaking in an annoying Aussie uptalk/valley girl manner? (Spoilt slightly by Yorkshire accent.)

Fundamentally, almost all the time it's correct to put the full stop outside, as otherwise you haven't terminated the sentence outside properly (inside would only be required if you were terminating the inside sentence and not the outside one, which would be odd).

I disagree, and so does the Economist: http://www.economist.com/style-guide/brackets

er, that link you gave doesn't appear to disagree with me - it's rare to see a whole sentence within brackets, and none of the examples given has one of those. I agree with what that style guide says for the rare occasions where it would be relevant - in such cases putting the full stop outside would be odd.

So the Economist style guide says: if a whole sentence is within brackets, put the full stop inside. How rare is this? Let's search for an example. How about, for the sake of convenience, upwards one post? 🙂

I must applaud CFH.

In a classic case of "he went thattaway", everyone's been getting their knickers in a twist over apostrophes while the [i]real[/i] grammar crime was secretly included in the first line of his OP:

different to

How's that for pedantry, you anti-pedant pedants?!

I'd put it in or out depending on whether it's a self-contained sentence or an aside in another one. Eg, I'd consider -

Fundamentally, almost all the time it's correct to put the full stop outside, as otherwise you haven't terminated the sentence outside properly (inside would only be required if you were terminating the inside sentence and not the outside one, which would be odd).

I could be speaking in an annoying Aussie uptalk/valley girl manner? (Spoilt slightly by Yorkshire accent.)

- both to be correct. Whether that's actually right or not I don't know, but it feels right.

Nowt like a good 'strophe (rhymes with 'loaf') debate... (@Cougar - both are right. It's tricky trying to mix it with the grammar pedants as your never more than one slip from oblivion.)

[quote=johnx2 ]How rare is this? Let's search for an example. How about, for the sake of convenience, upwards one post?

Well of all the uses of brackets in this thread it's the only one, so I reckon that makes it rare (and I'm going to add in this one here to improve the percentages).

@johnx2 - please tell me that you're playing with us and that your slip was deliberate

😉 ...and I managed to do another in brackets full stop, so their! (Christ this hurts to do.)

You want a fight do you (don't worry, I'll get bored soon)?

shirley the contents of the brackets and the sentence are separate entities and need punctuating on their own.

[i]So a sentence would have a beginning (at the start, a good place for it.), a middle (here!), and an end (where-else?).[/i]

So if the content of the brackets need punctuation use it, if not don't bother. I'd consider the full stop in the first brackets to be superfluous but the ! and ? fair use and then a proper full stop finishing the original sentence.

[quote=D0NK ]a proper full stop finishing the original sentence.

Ah, well that I'd consider superfluous as well (because the punctuation in the brackets also covers that!)

So a sentence would have a beginning (at the start, a good place for it.), a middle (here!), and an end (where-else?).

But if there is the need for punctuation within the brackets, surely to God, there'd be capitalisation as well.

Local petrol station has a sign saying "Shop 'n Drive".

An apostrophe short surely?

Oh and why is apostrophe such a long word? Shouldn't it be abbreviated?

your not wrong

An apostrophe short surely?