You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
As I mentioned on the last v similar thread - I beleive that both the model of ownership and the self driving tech will evolve at the same time as the battery/charging tech and infrastructure <edit> and answer many of the issues raised above.
With private cars only being utilised on average 4% of the time, it makes far more sense for the majority to subscribe to a transport service to increase the utilisation of these v expensive assets (£35k....it's nuts we're all being persuaded, me included, that we should wrap up so much of our money in a depreciating asset). You can easily see that with a combination of tech we're not far away from the following (apart from maybe really rural home owners):
Different priced subscription based on mileage/plushness of car/size range etc
Press app button on phone to request car - linked calendar does this for planned events in good time
self driving e-car arrives and you or it drives to entered destination
For long journeys the "system" calculates it needs to meet a car part way to swap if charge / car zone requires a change. This could be scheduled with rest break and still quicker than stopping for petrol or an ecotricity charge.
Local cleaning hubs - teams regularly clean the self--arriving cars. Sensors/video mean anyone making a car dirty can be charged
Local charging hubs - cars return automatically when required and algorithms dictate when this is done most efficiently based on demand and electricity cost (demand)
If everyone used such services (unlikely for many years) there could be a theoretical 1/25 of the cars on the road - ok that wouldn't be the case if we all continue to dash to be at a desk at the same time but you get my point
Just not a great idea (yet) for the rest of us!!
When you say the rest you mean some of us, right?
Either way it’s not actually doing much for the environment over fossil fuels (if you look at “cradle to grave” energy costs)
Better than halving is actually doing much IMO
Cars are lasting longer in both years and kms covered in their lifetime. Over the last 35 years it's gone up about a quater in the US. In France it's gone up by a couple of years in tha last 20. Current EVs are likely to last a very long time as batteries are quickly and easily swapped. Some of the early Zoés are now getting new batteries under the lease terms with owners benefititing from the bigger battery on swap. There was one for sale recently - brand new 40kWh battery in a second-hand car at half the original cost.
When you say the rest you mean some of us, right?
I think as you know Drac until the ev's can tow a boat and 12 people from outback QLD to alaska and back in a day people should be protected from them.
Must get back to the how do I really drive app idea. Imagine getting an email once a month saying 93% of your journeys were doable in an EV and it would have cost x vs y.
I'm going to get an EV.
Probably a small one.
Might even be a one person EV.
Maybe with two wheels.
Only needs about 40 mile range.
I reckon even if I lived in a flat something really small could be brought indoors to charge, or like a removable battery could be brought in, or something like that.
Does anyone make such a thing?
You can’t get high and mighty about saving the planet and driving an EV, then saying but I’ve got a gas guzzler that does 15mpg just because.
I'm not getting 'high and mighty' in the slightest - Just saying that, until EV technology reaches the point at which it can fully replace my current vehicle requirements, I'll still need an alternative.
Maybe the 42Mwh of electricity that my PV has produced since 2012 will go some way towards diluting your disappointment with those whose interests don't align with yours.
I assume you heat your house with electricity and not gas.
I’m not getting ‘high and mighty’ in the slightest – Just saying that, until EV technology reaches the point at which it can fully replace my current vehicle requirements, I’ll still need an alternative.
The bigger change is the mindset that you own one vehicle to do everything rather than one for the majority suplimented by others for the outside cases. This is the hardest one to change the way people see cars etc. The community shared aygo outside my flat does heaps of short cheap journeys compared to 30 people all owning one and driving them a 20th of the time.
Good for you.
For the rest of us outside cities it depends on where you live. Your working pattern. Your needs. And more importantly an environmentally sustainable alternative as Ethanol and biodiesel are far more environmentally friendly.
I’ve met two people who use a hybrid. My work have a Zoe to get around the site. Other than that the rest of the people I meet won’t be buying a current gen EV as they’re not for us.
Public transport in rural areas is a joke. We’re so London-centric diesels have been vilified for NOx but are far better for CO2. Diesels make sense out of a city.
The future for many will be in bikes and public transport.
So yes, the majority of us.
Batteries are a stop gap really in the long term picture. They use finite precious metals to produce, still require energy for somewhere to charge and the charging infrastructure that will be required if numbers significantly increase will be problematic. The cost ofset will soon disappear also, I read an article about how varible the chargers were interms of the amount of power they put out and costs varied hugely also.
Hydrogen is the future. Still an EV but without a battery. We have a few in the pool at work and they are amazing. 300 mile plus range. Problem is fuel availability though, I think currently only Aberdeen (where ours are based) and somewhere down south has fuel stations.
This argument from Toyota on EV versus hybrid is also interesting:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/paris-motor-show/toyota-reckons-hybrids-are-better-full-electric-cars
Hydrogen is not the future
Fixed.
reckon even if I lived in a flat something really small could be brought indoors to charge, or like a removable battery could be brought in, or something like that.
Does anyone make such a thing?
Yes, an electric bicycle.
The battery on a car would be too big to carry inside. A Twizzy has a 100kg battery, and has a range of 30-50 miles for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy
Must get back to the how do I really drive app idea. Imagine getting an email once a month saying 93% of your journeys were doable in an EV and it would have cost x vs y.
Thays a good idea, put it out there and see how many people take it up/pay for the app.
Not many.
Nat many people really GAS about EV other than “oh look, an electric car.. bit like a milk float in the 80’s #s****”
As far as other more expansive claims that “not all of us/most of us” quotes are from a teeny weeny minority of the population that may consider an EV “some time in the future”
Whats always dismissed or forgotten on here is that this Forum is a tiny inward looking bubble. Minutiae in comparison with its “ICE is shite,EV is the answer” There is an outside world that couldn’t GAS about EV’s because they simply Don’t Want One, are A FaFF to charge, Don’t drive like vehicles they are used to and finally.. the crux of the argument ... Run Out Of Charge on journeys longer than the User wants to Do.
Argue all you like about “it only takes 20mins to get to 80%” hypothetical nonsense, the Infrastructure Is Not There and No rational Nationwide Plan is in Place to Put One In either. It’s being left to a small number of players to spend buckets of thier own cash developing a teeny model and teeny infrastructure that covers a very teeny little area.
You lot blat on about EV’s being “the thing” when all around you the signs and signals and messages are simply being ignored.... again, and again, and again.
I do wonder why I come on here sometimes.
I’m going to get an EV.
Probably a small one.
Might even be a one person EV.
Maybe with two wheels.
Only needs about 40 mile range.I reckon even if I lived in a flat something really small could be brought indoors to charge, or like a removable battery could be brought in, or something like that.
Does anyone make such a thing?
motochimp
For the rest of us outside cities it depends on where you live. Your working pattern. Your needs. And more importantly an environmentally sustainable alternative as Ethanol and biodiesel are far more environmentally friendly.
I’ve met two people who use a hybrid. My work have a Zoe to get around the site. Other than that the rest of the people I meet won’t be buying a current gen EV as they’re not for us.
I live in rural Northumberland. My wife uses our Hybrid travel to work 4 days a week. Her employer provides quite a few chargers but they fill up most mornings as there's more than 2 people who own an EV and hybrids.
There's 4 EV/Hybrids in our small street alone, 3 chargers around town.
It's not most it's some.
So to sum up bikebouy "I don't want to and I'll stick to the reasons I make up" thankfully more people are approaching this with an open mind. The amount car companies are investing says the ice will die.
The point of an app would be to explode the myths in your head.
"Man Surprised When Rhetorical Question Receives Actual Answers Shocker"
It’s being left to a small number of players to spend buckets of thier own cash developing a teeny model and teeny infrastructure that covers a very teeny little area.
Players like BP?
Just done a straw poll for you here at my workplace.
Mix of C/B Directors and Project Mgrs etc.
7 people lol’d when asked Would you buy an EV?
of those 7, one said “might for the missus, not yet cos there’s nowhere to charge em’
3 others said “why, no charging facilities, I’m sticking with my diesel SUV”
2 others said “joking aren’t you?”
1 didn’t answer
2 said “noddy cars, no thanks”
14 asked, 1 might buy one for his missus.
Hey ho.
Of that lot, all drive to work just outside M25 into town. No one cycles, but plenty of others here catch the tube/train.
Small sample agreed, but these people have the cash to afford an EV, there’s nothing else stopping them other than the points raised above.
Small sample agreed, but these people have the cash to afford an EV, there’s nothing else stopping them other than the points raised above.
So was that based on anything other than finger in the air or had they actually researched it?
I've just asked all the people around me as a straw poll.
100% say they own a hybrid and will look at a full EV next.
They don't need research.
Because they Just Know that electric cars are rubbish.
@Drac, good for you. There’s nothing like that round my way in Cranborne Chase, nor in the Cotswolds where I lived last year. No chargers in Salisbury that I’ve seen, nor indeed any of the towns other than Bristol (2 chargers seen) that I’ve visited in the last 12 months.
My work has 1 charging point for the company Zoe....
As I said, for most of us it doesn’t work.
They'll probably buy one when Jeremy Clarkson tells them it's cool
So was that based on anything other than finger in the air or had they actually researched it?
What difference does it make to his point?
I see a couple of EV's about but nothing more than that. We have 5 charging points scattered fairly well around town so public infrastructure isn't a great issue (other than one of the points being in a school carpark which gets "closed" at night).
We don't have any at work which is somewhat ironic given we are one of the companies that supply, fit and manage charge points and sell them as business benefits. Attitude of one person I pointed this out to was " well nobody drives them so why should they?", he didn't seem to understand the chicken and egg analogy. If we did it could tip the street charging issue for me.
So to sum up bikebouy “I don’t want to and I’ll stick to the reasons I make up” thankfully more people are approaching this with an open mind. The amount car companies are investing says the ice will die.
The point of an app would be to explode the myths in your head.
I drive a hybrid, you aren’t convincing me mike..
Myths or practical reasons, depends on what side of the fence you sit on.
And the car you drive is?
Honest answer, not a myth made up for the internet..
So was that based on anything other than finger in the air or had they actually researched it?
Finger in the air, obvz. I asked them F2F the question whilst in a meeting.
I do wonder why You assume that all vehicle purchases are researched by potential owners.
Some of this bubble you live in might, My small example ^^ proves otherwise.
Wait.. I’ll ask them...
What made you choose your current car?
Space, Practicality, I’ve owned the same model before, I like the look of it.
Why choose diesel ?
Cheaper to run, costs nothing/small outlay in VED, loads of miles to the gallon.
Is cost a consideration when choosing a car?
All, no.
HeyHo.
You need to get out of this bubble you lot are restricting yourselves to.
And the car you drive is?
Honest answer, not a myth made up for the internet..
Last 3 months? Combination of aygo, transit, astra, golf, 2006,mondeo and a few more. Don't own any of them as that model doesn't work for me.
As for your colleagues would they ever consider everything they based their decision on was wrong? Would that make them think about it?
Plenty of people do research before commiting to a car purchase. With a change in tech available you can either explore the options or ignore them.
You need to get out of this bubble you lot are restricting yourselves to.
I left the bubble of must own a car long ago.
Cheaper to run, costs nothing/small outlay in VED, loads of miles to the gallon.
That's part of the reason I dumped diesel for hybrid.
I live in a city and we had seriously considered buying an EV when we looked to replace my van. We also considered doing without a car and just using a car share scheme, but this was dropped when we saw that the options we had for getting a car for a whole weekend that could take dogs was like finding a universal solution to Brexit.
EV lost out to a flexifuel petrol purely because we have nowhere to charge it. Charging points are available in Stockholm, but they are limited near us. We can't get one on the street outside our apartment and, if we did, the parking is a free for all, so it is possible that we might not be able to get near it once it is down. Similarly, the parkign spot we have in our garage has nowhere to put a charging point. So, nowhere to charge from.
As it is, the car just sits in the garage all week until we use it to drive the 110km or so to the house. A tank lasts for about 1000km, so we get about 5 round trips to the house out of it. The rest of our journeys are by bike, by foot or using a very efficient public transport system.
I can get about 50km max out of my one of these :
When on holiday in wales last year there wass an old couple there in a range-extender BMW i3, which had a small motorcycle engine in to keep the battery topped up when it got low and there was nowhere to charge it.
Only had a small petrol tank but at least you could carry a fuel can as well.
Apparently they are ditching the range extender version as the new batteries have more range, but I think that is a mistake as that was a nice backup for cases where you couldn't find a charging point or they were all in use.
Doesn't matter if you would never use it, the comfort factor meant that the vehicle was a lot more attractive as a proposition to replace your petrol car.
Apparently they are ditching the range extender version as the new batteries have more range, but I think that is a mistake as that was a nice backup for cases where you couldn’t find a charging point or they were all in use.
Doesn’t matter if you would never use it, the comfort factor meant that the vehicle was a lot more attractive as a proposition to replace your petrol car.
I agree that rather than Hybrid cars we should have electric cars with a small scooter engine for those who aren't quite ready to let go.
BTW BMW are dropping the i3 range extender in the UK, so both your old couple and BMW seem to think they are unnecessary
A couple of folk have mentioned the development opportunities. Across the Highlands now, you see local community groups and small businesses (cafes, pubs, shops..) installing charge points as a means to encourage customers to stop long enough to spend money. This is quite simply, great and a win all round. Especially as most of our electricity is now 'made' from renewable sources.
Personally I would love to buy by an affordable small (fiesta sized) EV with something in the region of ~150 miles range and no real need for it to be able to to top 60 mph... I could potentially charge that on my drive and that would cover 95% of mine and my missus car usage (mostly shorter journeys TBH)...
But then I imagine a good majority of people looking at fiesta sized cars would expect to keep them on the street, and then what do they do about charging?
So the product I want (and believe there would be a wider market for than Teslas) doesn't really exist because the infrastucture isn't really in place yet, not because the technology is missing...
What will fill the tax revenue hole created by the fall in fossil fuel purchases, cost of charging going up perhaps?
Maybe the 42Mwh of electricity that my PV has produced since 2012
How many Mwh of gas electricty etc. have you consumed in the time?
I like being energy positive despite having an electric car.
@ Banana - That's great but I've not seen one in my area (West Reading), and who paid for that to be installed?
Like I said we are still not addressing the infrastructure shortfall nationally, and yep its pretty simple, the major bit (the national grid) already exists it's just the last bit...
As for your colleagues would they ever consider everything they based their decision on was wrong? Would that make them think about it?
Good question.
I do believe they are entrenched in thier own ideals, that’s for sure. They do seem to care less about any environment issue other than the greenwash “we’ve ditched plastic at home Ya” view.
They also run one of the biggest Technology and Consumer Goods companies in this country. So, you’d think with all the current hot topic about renewables and plastic packaging and such that they’d be more inclined to consider the environmental issues when They purchase Anything.
Sadly, as is all so common they think it’s down to someone else to fix the problem. They buy products from countries who provide ready packaged goods and distribute them in a supply chain. Hardly any conversation is raised about how eco friendly the package is or any consideration as to that packaging when it hits the consumer.. again it’s upstream problem and down stream problem with them in the middle tapping laptops counting the money...
They apply the same logic to vehicles. The comments about the VED costs for diesels does occasionally come up, purely for the fact that I raise it. I drive a hybrid with £130yr VED (But on that stupid Tax revenue scheme this pathetic government brought in so it’s £400 for four yrs IIRC) and they just laugh... and say, why not buy a diesel it’s hardy a meal out to Tax it for a year.. and they have a very valid point.
HeyHo.
"@ Banana – That’s great but I’ve not seen one in my area (West Reading), and who paid for that to be installed?"
Adapting the existing network is a great idea but in the picture above what is there stop anyone unplugging and/or stealing the cable ?
Adapting the existing network is a great idea but in the picture above what is there stop anyone unplugging and/or stealing the cable ?
They lock into the charge points.
On the radio 5 programme someone said local councils have access to central govt funding. Only problem will probably be that there has to be demand, so you probably have to own the cars first. Altho that example looks like a fairly simple alt to an existing lampost
And I think the charge cable might lock into your car as well
I don't expect it's as straightforward as I'm trying to make out
And my last point on this subject , for sure I’m boring the pants off you all...
I chose a hybrid after years of big Diesel engined SUV’s. Firstly I like SUVs, they fit my lifestyle.
I watched with eager anticipation on here when Drac was going for his Golf GTE, all the good reasons and his experience he’s had with his car. IIRC he loves it and again IIRC is going full EV next time around. I read what he wrote and thought “yip, hybrids the way to go” I know the difference between the hybrid and Phev distinction, so no need to clarify that.
Then I chose two brands to research , Mitsubishi Phev thing SUV which frankly was woeful. And Lexus, and I chose Lexus. I’ve been more than outstandingly happy with it. It’s a sublime thing and maybe 40% greenwash but the mileage I do and comfort I enjoy it’s astonishing. 61mpg out of a 2.5ltr Hybrid.. that’s more than I got out of my XC60 by some margin. I am not turning back now, hybrid for me is the only choice.
I am in a fortunate place being able to afford pretty much any vehicle I choose, but I don’t go for the biggest/fastest or daftest, I look for comfort, space, fuel economy and luxury. Plenty of other brands thrusting massive engined petrol or diesel sports cars and SUVs “premium brands” too and I just don’t even acknowledge them.
HeyHo
EV/Hybrid drive so much nicer than petrol and diesel, and don’t know anyone who has had one who wants to go back.
The only problem at the moment is cost.
I know some who travels daily from Leeds to Hull and back in a Zoe and has never once run out of leccy. They are fine for the countryside too.
The only problem at the moment is cost.
I know some who travels daily from Leeds to Hull and back in a Zoe and has never once run out of leccy. They are fine for the countryside too.
See that cost is not an insignificant point though, a base model Zoe is what ~£20k? plus the battery you can buy for ~£5k? or you lease it for ~£1k per year?
When you can get a new small petrol hatchback for less than half that and you won't need to lease the fuel tank, very few people are going to jump on that particilar bandwaggon.
I'd be fine with a Zoe myself, but I'm not willing to pay half that list price for one. so are any of the first batch (~3 years old?) coming onto the used market yet? and if so are they anything like affordable used?
BTW BMW are dropping the i3 range extender in the UK, so both your old couple and BMW seem to think they are unnecessary
no, the old couple used their range extender on the journey to wales as it was out of range - and few charging points where we were.
BMW didn't used to think that you needed a car that could drive OK in the snow either, or that had comfortable tyres on (see the number of people that complain about their run flats). My mate has had several 5 series where BMW didn't think you needed a car that didn't make you feel car sick as it rolled around so much.
Not a Zoe, but my used Kia Soul EV cost about £15k. That's for a 3 year old car, from a Kia main dealer, 10k miles on the clock, just had its first MOT, 4 years of the Kia original warranty remaining, and no hidden costs on battery leasing etc.
VED is £0. Servicing about £50 a year. Electricity will cost me about £250 a year for about 10k miles, although I switched energy provider at the same time and my costs pretty much remained flat. Home charger cost me £300. It'll still need an MOT, tyres and some screenwash and some wiper blades every now and then.
It is the most I've every spent on a second hand car before, but I've never owned something as new before, with warranty coverage, and with such minuscule running costs.
Actually after posting before I went and had a quick google for used Zoe's:
Four examples popped up in the SE through autotrader 2015/16 all under £8k so a 3 year old Zoe is an option today at an 'affordable' price (i.e. the sort of money you could be spending on a new 1L hatchback)...
There are two basic positions IMO to "being green" Light greens who want to reduce pollution but will not accept any changes to lifestyle unless strongly pushed by taxation / finances and Dark greens who understand that its the lifestyle that is the issue
The former buy Hybrids and current EVs, the latter organise their lives to not use a car.
Again IMO it doesn't really matter what sort of car you have - its still massive use of energy both embedded and in moving around a tonne or two of metal to move one person. the only thing to really make a differnce is to reduce greatly the amount that we move people about and to make these movements in the most energy efficient way. That means using bicycles, buses and trains. Not cars as we know them now.
EVs are greenwash
no, the old couple used their range extender on the journey to wales as it was out of range – and few charging points where we were.
Apology, I actually meant in relation to the fact that BMW are putting in a bigger battery capacity in the new i3 so presuming the old couple and BMW think the extra battry size is enough to not need a motor. However I also think a small anxiety motor in EVs would be a good thing to try and convert people, so think it's a negative move by BMW.
Owner of a Kia Soul EV for a year now.
It's a nice drive. Luckily it's our second car but actually our main car only gets used when we're both not able to share the EV, or big distance.
Range has taken a dive winter for sure.
However we will do it again when the lease is up as it's so convenient not having to go to the petrol station!
However I also think a small anxiety motor in EVs would be a good thing to try and convert people
Which is why full EV won't be everywhere for quite some time, until people have driven around in their hybrid and realised they haven't used the petrol motor for, like, ages.
Four examples popped up in the SE through autotrader 2015/16 all under £8k so a 3 year old Zoe is an option today at an ‘affordable’ price
Look on the Renault Used Cars section, there's loads of them in and around London and the South East from £6k upwards.
I am 80% going to buy one within then next couple of months. I haven't owned a car for over 10 years and have been waiting for an affordable electric run-around and the Zoe is it. I don't have a charging point or parking outside my house, but there's one within half a mile so I'm going to make it work.
However I also think a small anxiety motor in EVs would be a good thing to try and convert people
Then you can use it when we have power cuts to keep your fridge on
I’m quite tempted by an EV as my next company car.
Ironically diesel largely suits my driving sitting at 75mph for most of my 28 mile reach way commute with cruise on but the tax for anything half decent now is mental. An EV as a company car is pretty compelling...at the moment.
My main concerns are;
- Government changing the tax rules part way through my four year lease. I got stung this time with the recent increases.
- The I3 would be great I think for the majority of my driving. It’s the outliers that I’m worried about (e.g. a trip longer than 150miles).
I guess to make it work you really need to tweak your lifestyle stlightly. A PM I work with has ditched is 535d for a Tesla. The BM would do c.600 on a tank and the Tesla far less. He says that he just leaves earlier and builds in a coffee stop or two.
I’ll crunch the numbers when it’s tike to choose and make a call then. They certainly appeal as a second car and would suit my other half’s driving which is mostly short journeys.
I haven't tried charging from a genny but I'd want to check before buying. If the earth on the power supply is less than perfect it won't charge. A full charge on that genny would take 25hrs.
For those considering old generation Zoés, leafs or I3s they all started with 22kWh batteries and frankly they're commuters, a long journey would be trying and stressful. With a 41kWh battery we head for a charge point at about 1/4charge (60-80km left) on the basis we want another one in hand if there's a problem with the first one. With the smaller battery you'd be hopping from charge point to charge point.
Someone mentioned Winter performance, we recently broke our worst range record for non-autoroute use at 250km. About 3°C, rain and head wind so reduced battery capacity, heater, headlights, wipers, increaded rolling resistance. On the same journey in Summer the range was over 300km.
Especially as most of our electricity is now ‘made’ from renewable sources.
It's not though. Currently approx 70-80% of UK electricity is produced using non renewable sources, and due to the nature of the National Grid wherever you live in the UK mainland you will be using electricity 'made' from non renewable sources most of the time.
The share of renewables in the UK’s electricity generation hit a record high of 31.7 per cent in the second quarter of 2018, while coal dropped to an all-time low of only 1.6 per cent.
Figures released today by the government’s Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy also reveal that gas accounted for 42 per cent, while the nuclear contribution was 21.7 per cent: nuclear output was 6.7 per cent lower due to outages at several large reactors.
So most electricity is now non-fossil fuel and a third renewable. Better by the year.
I'm one of TJ's light greens 🙂
Like mindmap3, changes to bik levels mean hybrids make sense as company cars. I'm actually looking forward to getting a PHEV. Am I going to save the world - no. But I will be using it 'properly' i.e. it will be charged every night and ran in full electric mode as much as possible!
I think I might struggle to 'reorganise' my life to not use a car as I work for a manufacturing company so working from home is pretty much a non-starter and I regularly travel to discuss problems with customers. Skype doesn't work too well when you're in a dry dock... I'll never be dark green clearly and to make matters worse I went for the fastest PHEV I could find... well at least until the battery runs out.
AD you might want to investigate the future plug in hybrid BIK levels. I'm sure I read somewhere that Govt had found that co car drivers were getting them for the cheaper BIK and then just driving them as a petrol car, so they were scrapping or reducing the perk on PHEV. It might be that they already did it and it's just not as generous as it once was.
Absolutely right B.A.Nana - there has been a shift and I'm sure the government will move even more. But it is still currently far less expensive than an equivalent diesel.
It honestly does annoy me that if some people buy a PHEV and then don't use it properly everyone gets tarred with same brush. However I don't know the exact figures or whether that story was just another DM attack on something even slightly 'green'.
I’ll be up for an electric Peugeot muscle car if this goes into production
I've been running an e-golf for 9000 miles and it's a wonderful thing. Truly the future for transport. However, it's not for everyone yet. You need to be savvy with a phone if you want to do a long journey easily, the public chargers are split amongst companies, some needing a card, some an app. Half the time the chargers aren't working.
The cars are already there imo, but the infrastructure is very poor
Lots of stories of people doing long commutes in their electric cars. Wouldn't it be even better to get a job closer to home and maybe cycle once in a while.
Wouldn't it.
Except for lots of people, they have to travel to their work. We can't "fix" everything overnight, people won't uproot their lifestyle on your say so. Another way, yes, a less good way, but better than the right now way, needs to be found.
Inch by inch...
Vehicle wise I’m sure ev will be the future. But I’m not so sure they should. Hydrogen is surely a more sensible alternative. Not least as it does away with batteries.
The reality is though we need better mass transit - buses/ trams/ trains and uhm bike infra
Hydrogen may have a place in larger vehicles like buses and trucks, but for personal cars electric makes much more sense. Hydrogen is basically another way to store electricity, but requires extremely heavy tanks to store, and it will again rely on creating a whole new expensive infrastructure. The attraction of pure electric vehicles is that for many users they can accomplish 99% of their journeys just plugging the car in at home. Hydrogen means visiting fuel stations again and paying their prices. The main advantage of hydrogen is faster fill times, but faster chargers (100kw, 175kw, even faster are coming) and bigger batteries mean that becomes less and less of an issue. It is much easier to add electric charging infrastructure than hydrogen filling stations.
The new Rivian SUV and pick-up are another good example of some of the exciting possibilities coming in the next few years with EVs. No they aren't really designed for our market, and they certainly aren't for everyone, but I've never really wanted a pick-up truck until I saw this one. The performance and packaging benefits you get from going electric bring all sorts of fresh thinking, and opportunities for new brands to really shake up the market...
was thinkng of going ot test drive a BMW i3 but looking at the user reviews I think not, people getting about 80 miles range is one thing, but there seem to be lots of drive train issues and weird stuf with the regenerative braking 'letting-go' and the braking being compromised.
Maybe it's that 159 sportswagon after all...
Wouldn’t it be even better to get a job closer to home
That's really pretty difficult to do these days for many people (not everyone of course). And I think pretty much everyone would go for a short commute if given free choice.
have been waiting for an affordable electric run-around and the Zoe is it
But don't you have to factor in the battery rental on top?
But don’t you have to factor in the battery rental on top?
the same as everyone factors in the petrol rental they user in their cars too 😉
the same as everyone factors in the petrol rental they user in their cars too
But you pay a premium for the car in the first place. You could get a much, much nicer small ICE car (for example a little Fiesta with £10 tax) for the same money that probably won't cost any more to run (potentially less if doing small miles as a local runaround). If you are doing big miles you wouldn't want to be driving a Zoe anyway.
Edit: Or spend £20k on one and own the battery...
Bonkers.
A brand new Zoe 40 R110 Dynamique Nav (cheapest model / battery rental) via autoebid or carwow is £13700.
There's not really a basic version of the Zoe, they all come with alloys, climate, navigation, cruise, rear parking sensors, etc. Likewise the 108bhp / 225NM motor is beefier than a low-end Fiesta.
Shop for something roughly equivalent - 5-door Fiesta Zetec, with the 100bhp ecoboost auto and that's £15500 on autoebid. You'd need to add several hundred pounds worth of options to match spec properly (rear electric windows, parking sensors, etc) though.
So the Zoe is faster, better specced, and cheaper to buy.
Do 6000 miles a year and the Zoe costs £69/month (£828 a year). Home electricity cost about £60/year on E7, £110 or so if you don't.
The Fiesta won't squeak into cheap tax with an auto, so £165 first year, £140 each year after. WLTP combined fuel economy of 42.8mpg (optimistic IMO, particularly for short trips) = £764 a year, so £904 pa.
So no saving in running costs either.
For all the naysayers re: cost.
How much do you think cars cost when they first came out?
They were toys for the very richest in society, so while I accept that EV’s are still (now) a bit pricey, they are coming down all the time.
Im looking to buy another vehicle this year, it won’t be electric, but i reckon the one after that will be.
A brand new Zoe 40 R110 Dynamique Nav (cheapest model / battery rental) via autoebid or carwow is £13700.
There’s not really a basic version of the Zoe, they all come with alloys, climate, navigation, cruise, rear parking sensors, etc. Likewise the 108bhp / 225NM motor is beefier than a low-end Fiesta.
Shop for something roughly equivalent – 5-door Fiesta Zetec, with the 100bhp ecoboost auto and that’s £15500 on autoebid. You’d need to add several hundred pounds worth of options to match spec properly (rear electric windows, parking sensors, etc) though.
So the Zoe is faster, better specced, and cheaper to buy.
Do 6000 miles a year and the Zoe costs £69/month (£828 a year). Home electricity cost about £60/year on E7, £110 or so if you don’t.
The Fiesta won’t squeak into cheap tax with an auto, so £165 first year, £140 each year after. WLTP combined fuel economy of 42.8mpg (optimistic IMO, particularly for short trips) = £764 a year, so £904 pa.
So no saving in running costs either.
Very interesting cost comparison. I'd never buy new for the miles I now do (I'd struggle to justify spending £6k really - which is why I still drive a 12 year old car) but if you are in the market to spend £15k on a small car I guess it would be worth comparing.
Just watching a few of those FullyCharged vids ^, the big issue for the next year or two appears to be battery supply. Battery Production has been a few companies on a smallish scale in car terms, only now are they ramping up for big scale industrial production. So if you order the latest must have affordable Kia eNiro or Hyundai Kona, it's going to be 2020 before you get it due bottleneck in production (waiting on batteries).
https://uk.motor1.com/news/304364/kia-e-niro-sold-out-uk/
I think once they get battery production on a mass scale, then EV prices should com down. By rights, less than ICE price as they have a lot less parts