[Closed] anyone just sold up, emigrated & opened a bar in spain for example? pros/cons?

Well I left a fairly well paid IT job to be a TEFL teacher in Spain. Pros - the food/drink/weather/riding/lack of stress. Cons - less money.

There's plenty of work for English teachers and you dont always have to have a qualification. Personally, I wouldnt bother with a bar, plenty are closing down due to the recession.

Oh, and "chavs" are not a uniquely English thing, plenty in Spain too.

27% unemployment in Spain and youth unemployment is 57% 😯

mackem, would the 'less money' still be enough to support family of 4 to a decent standard?
and yep, i realise thered be chavs in spain too, its just getting away from the particular culture and crowd here. anywhere would do that, its just we started talking bout spain in particular.

EDIT: how do the unemployment stats compare with over here? bit ignorant of that really.

I lived in Spain for quite a few years and some friends are just opening a bar in a small village this week.The bar is actually owned by the community and they needed someone to take it on.If it pays them enough to stay out in Spain then they'll be happy.They'll probably have to do food as well.
Another English couple i know opened a bar in a small village but eventually closed it down as it just didn't make any money.There were established Spanish owned bars in the village who appealed more to the Spanish people.
Some other English friends run a small hotel and bar,and despite being in a totally Spanish location they have very few Spanish customers and only appeal to the British.
Food is normally very competitively priced in Spanish areas with a bar nearby to my house doing the 4 course menu del dia for 9 Euros including a drink.The bar takes enough money just to open at lunchtimes 5 days a week.
According to my friends who run the hotel ,their drinks supplier says things are pretty bad with bars really struggling.
You may be better off looking at the English teaching as a lot of Spanish are keen to learn English,but i'd assume that you'd need to learn some Spanish before you venture down this route.

2 people working as TEFL teachers might be able to support a family. A lot depends on your housing costs.
If you have the cash available you can buy outright very cheaply in some parts of Spain. I'm in the North where costs are a lot higher but I get paid a bit more than average. I dont think I'd want to be supporting a couple of kids though.

You dont really need Spanish to teach English (unless you want to work in a proper school rather than a private academy)

2 people working as TEFL teachers might be able to support a family. A lot depends on your housing costs.

aye, just me, so thats why we were thinking something for wife too, such as a bar where the kids could help out to save expense/wages. starting to look a bit of a pipe dream tho :-/

f you have the cash available you can buy outright very cheaply in some parts of Spain.

we'd have around £60,000 equity to play with. thats it.

thanks for the info so far 🙂

Here you go, a disco bar in Marbella, 65k euros.

http://www.segundamano.es/malaga/disco-bar-en-marbella/a43453214/?ca=29_s&st=a&c=51

Actually, what do you do now? There's a surprising amount of work for English speaking people in Madrid.

You dont really need Spanish to teach English (unless you want to work in a proper school rather than a private academy)

Few years back I spent four months in one of the Don Quijote language schools (thoroughly recommended, for many reasons....sigh....). Most teachers there didn't speak a word of English beyond simple greetings.

We had a few classes where we was talked through a few very basic things and then full immersion.

Best way to learn IMO

Sigh... I miss those Swedish girls

.....sigh.....

Actually, what do you do now? There's a surprising amount of work for English speaking people in Madrid.

firefighter.

been reading a few bits and bobs from google, and seems leasing would be the wise option rather than buying. but if theres no living to be made at it...... :-/

Pity you couldnt be a firefighter here, work one week in three, get paid a fortune.

is that what they do over there??? aye, be great that wouldnt it 🙂

If yourself and your wife are confident that you can return to jobs in the UK then just rent somewhere for 6 or 12 months.I think rents at the moment are pretty low and if i was looking to move out to Spain now there is no way that i would buy.Don't give up your house in the UK unless you are completely confident about your future in Spain.
Unless you have an employers contract,classed as a pensioner or pay self employed contributions,which are very high,then you will not be eligible for any benefits.
For English speakers the biggest job opportunities are in British areas such as large urbanisations.They will also have the lowest rents due to the amount of houses available.
Moving teenagers can be very difficult,and for some friends it was a disaster.
I know many people who moved out to Spain thinking it was going to be like a holiday but when bills started coming in reallity hit.Wages can be low and i know South Americans that will work for less than 5 euros an hour.

thanks, good insight. FWIW i wouldnt be able to walk back into my occupation once its given up. wife is part time and could return to that line of work if needed, but im the main breadwinner and that would have been given up.

i should also maybe mention that although im a firefighter, my main experience has been in engineering, cnc machining in aerospace. did TEFL and also managment courses to broaden my horizons and options. be good if they could help me possibly, thats why i did them after all.

and also, it doesnt have to be spain, we'd consider anything really if anyone has anything interesting to throw into the mix?

thanks

Parents have been in Denia area for a few years (40 miles nth of Benidorm), lots of expats and popular with 2nd home owners.

They report as above, lots of bar/cafe owners packing up and going home, many just closing the doors and abandoning everything incl debts.

Might be worth thinking of something more original tho? Mobile fish n Chip shop?, fleet of ice cream vans?

Personally, I wouldnt bother with a bar, plenty are closing down due to the recession.

My brother in law ran for many years a successful Irish pub/bar (which also employed his daughter) in the centre of Madrid, it closed a year or two back due to the economic climate.

it doesnt have to be spain,

Is there know where that'll acknowledge a UK water fairies qualification, so you could transfer internationally?

Are you able to get a visa for Aus or NZ with the firefighting? That's where I'd be looking.

Can you not take a sabbatical from work? not come back if you land on your feet?

I'm in Southern Spain and there is high unemployment. The cost of living is cheaper but going up too. Still a great place to live though and I enjoy it very much.
There are two things from you post which stand out. Please don't take them the wrong way, just thoughts.
1. Are you sure you want to take your children away from a drug culture and into a drinking one? I've seen quite a few Brits screw their lives up in bars over here, everyday is a holiday attitude. Also there is very much a hash culture in some parts of Southern Spain, I can see Morocco in a 1 minute walk from where I live.
2. Have you thought about community support there? Youth clubs, addiction or community support centres, those sorts of things. Would you still want to move away if some of the problems went away?

Would it be possible for you all to take a few weeks of work and stay somewhere self catering. Rent is cheap, landlords here are desperate for money. Maybe you could see how you get on?

Is there know where that'll acknowledge a UK water fairies qualification, so you could transfer internationally?

not that i know of. when i came into the job i mistakenly thought once in i coulkd transfer from county to county just like that if i wanted to. its not like that at all, and im pretty much stuck where i am.
i dont know of any countries that would accept UK qualifications to get in. happy to be shown otherwise tho 🙂

Are you able to get a visa for Aus or NZ with the firefighting? That's where I'd be looking.

ive looked into oz, and dont score high enough for the visa i would have wanted. i think id need the one where you already have to have the promise of a job and are sponsored by the company.

Can you not take a sabbatical from work? not come back if you land on your feet?

its unlikely, altho i could ask. theyve been sympathetic to my problems dealing with my lad so far, so its not totally out of the question, and is something id explore as a safety net. but..... i need to find something first 🙂

Please don't take them the wrong way,

not a chance, im always quite open, and pleased to hear views even if i dont agree with them.

Are you sure you want to take your children away from a drug culture and into a drinking one? I've seen quite a few Brits screw their lives up in bars over here, everyday is a holiday attitude. Also there is very much a hash culture in some parts of Southern Spain, I can see Morocco in a 1 minute walk from where I live.

im not a big drinker myself, more into keeping fit and healthy so i wouldnt get drawn into that personally. i cant vouch for my kids, there are probably many ways in which they could screw their lives up, theyve already nearly done it here, so its a case of trying to give them a fresh start somewhere. the eldest has begged us to take him somewhere away from these 'friends' and influences. i get the feeling they would always try and fit into whatever the culture is where they are, which could be good or bad.

Have you thought about community support there? Youth clubs, addiction or community support centres, those sorts of things. Would you still want to move away if some of the problems went away?

theres limited support for them for their issues, and nothing for them to actually do (whether thats a lack of ambition or getting off their arses and looking i cant say 100%)
if the 'teenager' problems went away, we'd still like to try something different as our work/life balance is cr*p. im away too much and moving to work area would be a downgrade from a nice village to a sh*tty, crime ridden area where the only people my kids know are druggy scrotes. so just thinking if we move, make it a good choice to improve all our lives.

thanks for the advice so far.

Very best of luck with your decisions. Don't rush. The challenges with Spain have already been mentioned - severe recession, high unemployment (chronic among the young). Sometimes these conditions offer great opportunity especially if you are looking to buy premises on the cheap. But there is the big bogeyman around the corner - the €. If you buy assets (eg a bar) now you run the risk that at some point Spain leaves the € and tries to restore cost competitiveness to its economy, this would imply a devaluation in the region of 20-25% accompanies by severe short term pain. IMO, the time for bravery and risk taking is the moment of devaluation not before,

Have you thought about other parts of Asia. Here is a real wild card for you - the Asian economy that is surprising people is Indonesia. Lots of opportunity but also challenges as an ex pat!

Some people on here accuse me of being too anti the €, so bear with me. My only real point is just beware. Investing your nest egg in a country where (sorry) there is a real risk of a devaluation at some stage carries risk that you need to consider IMO.

thanks. we did try and get sorted with thailand, but it looks like that doors closed. my bro lives in phuket and has a few language schools around the world, hence the ITTT (TEFL) course, and the idea was that i would buy a language school from him in phuket and run that. thatd would have been lovely. its not making enough money now tho to support the 4 of us, and my wife and kids wouldnt be able to find work over there, as apparently you cant be employed in work that a thai can do.

but id be interested in any opportunities really. we'd consider anything and dont mind a calculated gamble.

Spain wont be in the EC for much longer - when it goes it will be even worse for jobs / business than it is now.

Pick somewhere thats not in a recession or headding for a massive bail out.

I worked in Egypt for a while - teaching Diving. Great sunny lifestyle, didnt make any money but it paid my rent and food.

Why not look for a job that requires a couple to run it, like a holiday resort place in Canada or Auz or NZ ?

Spain wont be in the EC for much longer - when it goes it will be even worse for jobs / business than it is now.

Pick somewhere thats not in a recession or headding for a massive bail out.

Can't see and real signs of Spain leaving the Euro, why do you think this? A bailout doesn't seem particularly likely right now, either.

That said, I don't think I'd come to Spain right now to look for work, the economy is bumping along at the bottom of a recession, and even the government admits it won't even start to pick up until at least next year.

Get a hgv licence and start looking for employers that will sponsor you to emigrate, or have a good look at jobs that typically sponsor, you will be surprised if you look hard enough, we came to Alberta Canada and although not eutopia the job market is incredible, getting sponsored is the best way to go as you start earning straight away, it's bloody expensive moving

We sold up and have moved to Eire, housing cheaper,so got rid of mortgage .Bought a better house with land for cash .
Ok job situ not so good but only need money for food ,living as said no mortgage or rent to pay.
Less population ,good schooling for our 14 year old,less crime away from the masses .
Good mountain biking thanks to colite (forestry commission),plenty of natural stuff too plus GUINNESS.

I live near the town of Coin-about 30 mins inland from Malaga and Marbella.Population is about 22,000 of which probably 1,500-2,000 are expats.In the past there were 8 brit bars and now we are down to 2 that are both struggling to stay afloat.Unfortunately they do tend to attract a certain type of clientelle so we use the spanish bars.The coast is no better-too many bars all doing the same thing whilst many hotels have gone all-inclusive.By the time you have paid rent and social security which is a crippling 247 euros a month self employed you are already struggling.To be honest you need enough money to support you here without relying on an income-your 60k will soon go.Almost everyone is struggling here at the moment and no sign of it getting any better which is a shame as it is such a nice place to live.I also have relatives in France and Cyprus and it is the same there.

I don't know you, your family or any other details bar your OP but it strikes me that you need to invest your energy helping your lads out rather than looking for a way out of the country. I can see the attraction in starting afresh somewhere new, but im pretty sure that you would end up in the same situation in a short space of time, just in another country.

Your lads who are into drugs and have no motivation won't suddenly change when you put them in a different area. You may have a honeymoon period but they'll soon revert to their old behaviour no matter where they are in the world. You need to address their behaviour and help them change their outlook on life. This is all easier said than done, but at least in the UK you will have people to help you. You mention that one of the boys is known to MH services, if he has a key worker ask him what can be offered to help him. You could also ask for advice from drug services/charities that will be in your area about a strategy to help your boys out.

Good luck with it, as a parent myself I can appreciate that you have some tough times ahead.

We taught English in Barcelona in 89/90 (the pre-Olympic boom). We made enough for a family of four to live on (as a couple we lived well) and lived in a nice flat on the beach in Sitges. Madame was in Spain last week, one guy she was with had just been made unemployed and was resigned to not finding work. 2-300 000 young people have left Spain to find work in the last year or so. I would choose somewhere else.

In Germany you're more likely to find work but are almost certain to end up as one of the working poor as there is no minimum wage and a mini-job policy means salaries can be painfully low. There is TEFL work but you need to be good and experience in a less demanding country would help.

Anything I say about France is heavily biased so I'll desist.

Unless you have an excellent grasp of another language I reckon that a move within the UK or the Anglo-Saxon world will produce better results faster.

Edit: get a job before you go!

I would move within the UK if I was you. Least risk option. Good luck.

I bought a place on an European Urbanisation near Alicante
And in the short time of having our place I have seen has many restaurants go
to the wall and for many re open.
The most I see go to the wall is ones that only do English food or rely on
Karaoke as there is many doing it but also where they don't have the correct licence
and also regarding noise the laws are different from an Urbanisation as opposed to being
at the sea front in Spain and the Police still finding it hard to work with the new Laws.

Good quality restaurants similar to [url= http://www.tgifridays.co.uk ]TGI Friday[/url] do well

I have to be honest I can get good quality three course meals for 12 euros and a bottle
of house wine for 2 euros 90 cents and yes drinkable : )

The competition is steep and a lot do well with good personalities too.
but unsure if you would want to put your family through even more/new stresses.

One thing I would advise you don't sell your home here but rent it out
as there are few people where I am that can't afford to come back home !

But I wish you and your family all the luck in the world 😉

The people who previously rented the house next to us came back. They had been out there for years, had their own pub/restaurant and they got hit by the slump. Unfortunately they had to shut up and are struggling to sell their property out there. It was sad listening to their tale 🙁

I'm thinking out loud, so please don't take any of this as criticism, but it does sound like you are in a situation that you really want to simply run away from.

I'm aware of the issues with your son, but I can't see that opting to move abroad will help; it looks like a massive gamble that might just about, possibly, with the wind behind you, and an awful lot of luck, turn out to be slightly better than the situation you are in at present.

If you feel moving is going to help, then aim to move within the UK. Just moving is stressful enough, never mind moving abroad into financial uncertainty.

I wish I could help, I wish I could be more positive, but you sound as if you are getting desperate, and desperate people sometimes make the wrong choices...

read the posts above carefully... do you get any that say.. great idea i had a mate move his family out open a bar teach english and all is cushty?.. no me neither

did you get any saying .. unemployment 27% ( thats FOUR times worse thanit is here!!) had a mate /know somebodu who had a bar/ club and it closed...

relocate in the uk.. rent your current house out and teach the millions that UKIP are scared to death of to speak english..

Majorca ?

Water front Cafe with bike memorabilia and Classics DVD's on a loop.

A Pinarello Dogma in the bike rack outside would help too !.

You should go over to britishexpats.com and do a search for firefighter etc, see where (if anywhere) there are jobs going. And then have a look at the Spain pages.

And I realise this is obvious but don't overlook the importance of actually understanding the local language in finding work, accommodation etc.

lived in Spain over 10 years, loved it, ups and downs just like anywhere!
Not a good time for working and young people there at the moment, you would all need to speak the language,and adapt to the lifestyle, it is pointless to go thinking otherwise. Living in one of the Expat "ghettos" would be an option, but why bother then?
Running a bar is often awful/expensive/totally time consuming/stresful etc...

I would say no,maybe move within the UK closer to work and spend time together as a family.

Cirencester requires a decent greasy spoon cafe in town, minimalistic, decent food, proper portions, organic options, there is a profit to be made I'm sure.

Wise words indeed from crikey...

I've said it before and I will say it again

It's not about where you live

It's how you live where you live.

You to enter the Spanish economy now?

Four of you?!

Why not a different country? Lots of stw'ers took coke/pills or smoked too.

One of the advantages of moving to an ex-pat "Ghetto" is access to an easier market for work. They all know each other, although there's quite a few less of 'em out there with spare cash anymore.

That said, I have a few family members out there (retired) and they upped and moved with enough capital to see 'em out with money left over. Seemed to be a few folk in that situation, I'm sure some are struggling, but some are still comfy.

One of the key indicators are how much quieter the restaurants are.

I wouldn't go near a bar as a business venture. Not unless you enjoy working ridiculous hours for a risky venture and quite probably poor income. Unless you absolutely nail it and stand head and shoulders above all the rest in some manner. But you'd still work ridiculous hours. I'd only do it if I knew I had a service to provide for a low Capitol risk, AND the market was there with some pre-existing entry points. Eg; Uncle (raging Tory) Rodders just had his villa repainted, don't remember the exact costs but it was several thousand pounds. Another example is airport transfers, some ex pats still have plenty of trips away and visitors flying about. Small mini bus, combined with TEFL work perhaps. No idea what complications there are with legalities there though. Cleaned any pools lately? How's you're olive grove tending skills?

Wise words indeed from crikey...

Plus one, best post on the thread.

Going out on a limb and reaading into your home life a little more than you are lettting on.

#1 Son is in and out of Care and mixing with all the other loosers who hes met who use

#2 Son is growing up waaaaay to fast and is following his brothers footsteps

Your wife is probably distraught and not strong enough to cope or deal with 2 wild teenage boys

You have to work away so cannot rule the house or impliment any rule or consequences for their actions.

Moving to Spain wont work. Moving to Skye might be a better idea. However , this is only going to be an issue for 2 or 3 years isn't it.

This isnt going to happen instantly , in reality it will be next year. Your boys might turn round and flatly refuse to go. When you get to where you end they might hate you with a passion ( if they come with you )

How about getting a day job in the the area and trying to do your best to look after your boys . Which county are you in?

Find a job that lets you work from home? Maybe your wife could up her hours to make up any income shortfall? So you might have to take an income drop, but with no relocation costs or exposure to stupide EU mentlity , the 'manana' mentality , (Jesus Christ on a Donkey no wonder their economy is foooked if the firefighters are working 1 in 3 weeks on full pay )

This however does not remove your 2 from the chav gangstar culture which is actually the root of the problem . remove those 2 and you and your wife could tick along very happily for the next 10 years till retirement then get an allotment .

No help at really , sorry .

Ahem

http://www.hspc.co.uk/details.asp?id=45599

Ok, not exciting. But you get a van 🙂

I was on a course last year a talking to an ex fireman he was saying a few people at his old station have moved to Spain and commuted weekly from Spain.

Last time I went down to the costa del sol a lot of xpat bars were going bust, the place looking run down and your average Guiri business is not having a great time. I think that would be a nightmare...

As for employment figures... Largely meaningless really; almost every Spaniard I know is working for cash, even surgeons, doctors, accountants all want to be paid in cash.. Generally no local goes on the system if they don't have to and estimates put 40% of the economic turnover here (in andalucia) as black economy. Im not saying there isn't a problem here, but you just cant tout facts and figures around because they don't include 40% of the picture.

I moved here in 2007. Me and the missus have had 2 kids here and we have started and grown a business. There are downsides like anywhere but on balance its been a good thing.

Plus side -
Climate
Lifestyle (depends where you live and what you do of course)
Cheap to live
Good infrastructure
Friendly laid back locals
Loads of biking, surfing, windsurfing and oudoor stuff
Low population density
Opportunities to start small businesses
Low violent crime and general yobbery
No youth gang culture

Downside -
Corruption
High taxes*
Drug/people trafficking / undercurrent of international organised crime.
Limited employment for young people (same as anywhere)

*Some times you also have to pay other people's

Read most (not all) of the replies, but why don't you try and relocate somewhere in the UK, there must another station you could transfer to with enough distance from where you are now? You say that your lads are desperate to get away from these scrotes and get sorted, surely they could do voluntary work in the new location which would help focus them on positive things and hopefully help them forget about their past lifestyle. Obviously my ideas are very simplified but you get the idea?

Reading through, a few people mention high SS costs in Spain. Which on the face of it is true at 380 PCM, earning or not. But on the other side of that coin its tax deductible and there are many benefits to being an "autonomo". I just bought a new van and got a 13,000 euro discount, many places run discount schemes for the self employed - you just have to ask. The health care is very good and if you are married the healthcare is transferable to your partner and any dependants. 380 is a bit of a bargain really.

I'm thinking out loud, so please don't take any of this as criticism, but it does sound like you are in a situation that you really want to simply run away from.

I'm aware of the issues with your son, but I can't see that opting to move abroad will help; it looks like a massive gamble that might just about, possibly, with the wind behind you, and an awful lot of luck, turn out to be slightly better than the situation you are in at present.

i dont take it as criticism at all, im grateful to hear all viewpoints. there may be an element of truth to 'running away' but the bottom line i spose is i think we do need to change something. if thats running away then so be it. hard to know what to do for the best.
after listening to all the advice on spain, it does seem to show thats maybe not the best idea.
my lad did stay in thailand for a while with family, and was far better there, thats why i sort of thought that may be an answer, somewhere with no chav culture to get sucked into.

You should go over to britishexpats.com and do a search for firefighter etc, see where (if anywhere) there are jobs going.

will do, thanks.

Going out on a limb and reaading into your home life a little more than you are lettting on.

#1 Son is in and out of Care and mixing with all the other loosers who hes met who use

#2 Son is growing up waaaaay to fast and is following his brothers footsteps

Your wife is probably distraught and not strong enough to cope or deal with 2 wild teenage boys

You have to work away so cannot rule the house or impliment any rule or consequences for their actions.

thats pretty much spot on, although my wifes a lot stronger now than she was. she still needs more support from me at home tho.
and as has been mentioned, its how you live your life that matters, i understand that, and yes, its only 2 or 3 years more before hopefully them bad boys have flitted 🙂 its just that if we are going to change something for us two, then also look at helping the lads too?

i mentioned spain initially as it was just our first thought, and thanks to your advice, and sort of as expected, its not looking a viable option.
moving over here? yep, we'd do that definitely, if it was best option. its finding another vocation thatd be tricky (im 48), as there are probably only 4 different stations i could transfer to, none in nice areas, so itd be back to square one really.
which, sort of brings the thread back round to looking at the title again........if im not going to up sticks and move abroad and to a totally different lifestyle, then i spose im just like many others over here looking for a new job :-/
i was just interested hear if there were any decent options and experiences from you all. i know some people would be scared to sell up and take a chance. we would gladly take that calculated gamble, and if we heard of a good opportunity to make our lives better we'd go for it.

thanks to you all, i havent caught up on all the answers yet, just gonna go through them now. i appreciate the input.

One option is the commute from Spain to work.Keep your place in the U.K to rent out and rent in Spain-about 600 euros a month will get you a 3 bed with pool.You will have to keep away from the brit bars though as they do draw the undesirables and drugs are easily available especially on the coast.A couple of friends here have kids who have joined the Gibraltar regiment and it has sorted them out!