[Closed] Anyone here work in academia/university or similar?

What sort of role are you looking at? Admin? Teaching? More detail might get you more specific advice...
Personally, I'm on the admin side, and the team I work with are great - some of the other departments less so, to me!

There's a few on here who work in HE directly for Uni's. I'm sure they'll be along shortly. I work in the HE sector either directly for individual universities or for the regulatory / quasi-statutory agencies. Having previously worked in Manufacturing, Oil and Gas, Retail, Law and Financial services, HE is a whole load more fun / less stress / massively lower in swinging-dick idiots.

It's changing tho. Commercialisation is definitely creeping in. Having said that, I actually care about the stuff I do and th people I do it for as it makes a hopefully positive difference to education. And that's ways better than making people you don't like richer!

Also it's a big old network. Once you get to know a few people, it feels quite 'clubby' but in a good way. As long as there's work for me, I'm sticking with HE/FE. It's also been fun seeing over 50 of the 160 universities in the UK. My plan is to get over a 100. Then I'll retire 😉

Academia encompasses a huge variety of job types and each will come with their own particular characteristics. I have been employed in the sector off and on over the past 25 years and have more or less settled there now. Universities have definitely gravitated towards stark accountability with respect to income and publication, all tied up in REF. On the positive side it is fairly obvious what is required and if you tick the main boxes then life should be simple. Fail to meet targets and life gets uncomfortable. I have been in both situations as many of my projects are relatively long term. Dealing with this pressure, especially not allowing it to stop your enjoyment of work are key. Profiling yourself locally is also important.

I've worked in the teaching / research side, for a Russell Group university up north, while doing my PhD.

From my experience, conditions on the teaching side of things are pretty dire at the moment. UK universities seem to have fully embraced the "gig economy" model, and there are now more and more lecturers fighting over less and less secure full time posts. As Alex has said above, commercialisation and neoliberal doctrine has really taken over the admin side of things. Job-wise, this means two things. There are a lot more admin positions, so if you fancy getting into this side of HE, then there's lots of opportunity if you have the right skills.

If it's the teaching / research side of things you want to do, then I'd advise you to do as much research into what this entails as possible. It is an incredibly rewarding job, although hard work, but the work is insecure.

I did a PhD in the Humanities at Oxbridge but left before going down the academic route.
There is a huge difference between what the public think academia involves, and what is actually involved.
I follow a former Professor of mine on Twitter and he recently posted that he felt guilty for doing a half day - and leaving the office at 6pm!
There is also a creeping culture of bullying and intimidation. I put this down to the fact that a lot of academics are gentle, introverted souls, but since the marketisation of higher education, people who previously would have become estate agents, bankers or human resource directors have taken up admin jobs in academia and made it in many institutions a deeply unpleasant place to work.

The idea of tenure is gradually disappearing. The rise in tuition fees means more pressure to give higher marks and greater demands from student-customers. The obsession with league tables and pointless metrics places a greater administrative burden on academics, who also have to deliver first-class teaching and research.

The private sector can be brutal, but the rewards can be more lucrative for putting in long hours.
When asked, I say people should only stay in academia if they love their subject area so much (or teaching) that they cannot imagine themselves doing anything different.
I also have a problem with a system which puts young people in so much debt but that's a different story.

Yes- just passed 25 years on the teaching/research side of things. There are great things about the job, and also some crap ones. Much depends on the institutional culture. Individual institutions are very dfferent so, returning to the OP's point, it is difficult to know if things would be better or worse elsewhere.

After years of not being able to secure a permanent position in HE, I finally settled for one in FE, but with a foot in the HE sector as a non-stipendiary research fellow.

For all I had wanted a permanent research/teaching post somewhere, I now talk with my colleagues in the department to which I am still attached, and they face exactly the same pressures and problems as people in the FE sector. All my romantic notions of being able to wear jeans and tweed with elbow patches for the rest of my life, and sitting quietly while writing away, have been entirely dashed.

To be honest, although I never would have chosen it, my current situation allows me to research and write at the same level I would have had I been full-time in the HE world, while avoiding some of the political challenges that come with an increasingly market-driven HE sector.

@SaxonRider - How easy was it for you to get into FE? Its been something that I've explored over the past year but all the local colleges that I've spoken to have said that there are less and less positions, and my PhD / HE teaching experience wouldn't necessarily transfer over in terms of relevant experience.

@devash: I wouldn't be put off by what you have been told so far. What's your field? Each FE/sixth form can be quite different, and I can guarantee you that there will be one out there that will embrace your background. If you want to discuss things off-forum, my email is in my profile.

Cheers, I might drop you an email later in the week for some pointers.

I am not an academic, but I work in student recruitment and a pretty good percentage of people in my game are ex-academics or "taking a break" that in one case has been about 20 years. There's other professional services where experience in academia is an asset. So maybe a swerve into another field of university life might work?

When I was finishing up my PhD they were in the process of realigning the academics in our department. Those who had previously just done teaching where going to be required to bring in a certain level of funding and push out papers. Those who just liked to do research were going to have to teach (and have their teaching monitored and assessed) a certain percentage of the time. This did cause a few nervous breakdowns and also some nice guys who couldn't raise the funding were cut.
As has been said before if you know what is required and can do it, then it can work out. I didn't pursue that route as the constant searching for funds was just too depressing for me but again if you know the right people and can play the game it is no issue.
The advent of tuition fees has changed the game for academics as will brexit if it happens. Admin side will always be pretty healthy though...

I'm a lecturer. What do you want to know?

Universities as working environments are very different. They are all doing essentially the same thing - teaching and research (plus associated admin to support those) - but how they operate ranges a lot. Some are fantastically supportive, others have high stress levels. Within the former, some depts will be better than others, within the latter the causes of stress will range from poor management, unachievable targets, or the pressure of being at the top of your field.

The rise in tuition fees means more pressure to give higher marks and greater demands from student-customers. The obsession with league tables and pointless metrics places a greater administrative burden on academics, who also have to deliver first-class teaching and research.

I left a university teaching position a couple of years ago and these, among many others, were my reasons.

What do you do now Xico, if you don't mind me asking?

FE has been savaged by government cuts, it was lumped in with business dept in
last government - lucky it has been moved back to "education" but what the OP describes as the problems with current role describe exactly what has been happening in FE - cuts / targets / morale - the money is being cut by removing permanent staff and hiring contracts on zero hours.
Research carefully, especially the future funding and demographic/demand for the services offered.

An academic on the research/teaching side of things here. My experience is good overall, but as is being said above – it's no easy option. That said, although I reckon I put a lot of hours in (I haven't stopped for Xmas because of research deadlines), it does generally mean you're in more control of your time. This means I can often go riding on a blue bird day or even take most of a day off if I fancy it. The key thing is that there's a lot more freedom and I can't think of any employed sector where you have the same flexibility to manage your own life.

On environment, each department and university is different, but unpleasant atmospheres, lack of morale among staff, targets and pointless metrics are all familiar to anyone in the sector. I'm in politics, law and social sciences, and I reckon anyone would be nuts to do the job if they didn't have a passion for their topic. There's little point in saying what hours I do, but it's pretty all-encompassing. The thing is, I'm OK with that – as long as I can keep the pointless stuff out of the way!

What's your experiences of working in academia?

I know this is a first world problem but I'm disliking where I work. I don't like to complain about job that has decent pay & holidays when others don't have those privileges. However it has a really unpleasant atmosphere, no morale among the staff and 40 odd targets assessed twice a year (which seems designed to ensure no-one meets them all meaning everyone is under a constant cloud of being 'performance managed' or forced out.)

There is a high turnover off staff and those who stay do so for geographic reasons. I'm the same in that moving would mean uprooting from my family & friends.

I'd be interested to hear the experience of others.

Universities are either bloody great to work in, or they suck big fat giant donkey balls. The middling universities are usually the worst, Queen Marys, Brunel etc etc. I experienced everything you did, plus more - although some places that I volounteered at were great. Industry has been a lot more consistent on the whole, I've also been lucky in that the last place I worked for had an academic vibe as it was a small start up that got bought out.

pressure to give higher marks and greater demands from student-customers. The obsession with league tables and pointless metrics places a greater administrative burden on academics, who also have to deliver first-class teaching and research.

I TEACH (virtually no research) at a university, half-time. I'm effectively subbed-out by my actual day job. I like the uni job but even in the 12-15 years I've been in it there's been very overt commercialisation and that seems inevitably to lead to extra targets'n'shit. There's still quite a lot of flexibility in working though, as said above - as long as my output's there I can ride early & work late

Been some biggish changes at "my" place recently and I'm not at all sure that it won't all turn to shit, at least comparatively. I do have the luxury of being able to walk if I want to though and as a non-careerist I can also just ignore the politics.

I spent many years in academia and research/ lecturing. I eventually got totally pee'd off with all the pressure and bull that has been mentioned above. I moved to industry and now work half the time I did for much more than twice the pay

I was an idiot to stick at it for so long

I spent seven years as a senior Research Fellow at Sussex and Oxford before leaving for industry. I miss the teaching, but my research is far more productive now. The remuneration meant that Mrs Tired does not have to work. I don't have to spend all my time writing grant applications.

The reason academic disputes are so bitter is because the stakes are so low. Sayre's law is endemic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayr e's_law

Thanks for all the replies guys. Really appreciate it.

I've been working as a lecturer (research/teaching/admin/etc.) for over 10 years in the same place I did my PhD. I love the flexibility but dislike the ever increasing & unrealistic demands, poisonous atmosphere, machiavellian politics, long hours, etc.

I suppose I'm deciding whether to stay where I am, up route from family & friends to try the same job elsewhere or try something else. Thing is, I'm a bit institutionalised. I'm not sure what else I could do. I'd love to hear what other people moved on to. On email might be easier.

You might want to use a more cryptic email address in your profile, given what you're saying about your current employer?

The pressure on academics across universities is really quite severe, I think it is much the same in many universities, though the nature of the pressure varies between research intensive and aspiring research universities. It is a little easier for those who are well established, senior academics, but the neoliberal direction of universities makes them quite unpleasant and competitive. Junior staff are almost encouraged to cut each other and probationary targets are increasingly unrealistic. The lack of academic freedom and short term targets makes academia.much less of an academic environment than it used to be. Should you leave? Tough call, it's not much nicer outside

dislike the ever increasing & unrealistic demands, poisonous atmosphere, machiavellian politics, long hours, etc.

Seems to be jobs after a while though...

the flexibility but dislike the ever increasing & unrealistic demands, poisonous atmosphere, machiavellian politics, long hours, etc.

I work in industrial research and it's near identical. December was, and always is, a nightmare month of 80 hour weeks trying to finish deliverables, balance the books and secure funding for the new year. Coupled with the transnational politics and the debacle that is Brexit, it was never going to be an easy one.

[url= https://katedaviesdesigns.com/2015/01/28/five-years-on-part-1/ ]This[/url] is one of my favourite articles on leaving academia.

I think that managing this 'pressure' whilst still being energetic and creative is key. Some of the load can be taken off through good mentoring, helping individuals get off to a good start so that they enjoy early success with grant awards. You have to keep a positive view of the job and feel benefit from doing it otherwise there are much easier and sometimes better paid options elsewhere.

I'd say that if you're in the sciences then work outside the ivory tower can potentially be more rewarding, with a better work/life balance.

My significant other completed her PhD in Environmental Sciences last year and had a number of offers from European universities to carry on her work with them. Some of them paid very well but the teaching to research workload seemed unrealistic, and the contracts were short term meaning she could potentially be out of a job after a year.

She took a job in industry with a well-respected company here in the UK and gets more or less the same money the universities were offering, but works 9-5, with no pressure to work at weekends. She's doing exactly the same research that she would be doing at the university but now gets her weekend off.

In the humanities it can be a bit more difficult, unless you have a well-defined career plan. I decided to do a PhD partly because I enjoyed doing my Masters more than my undergrad degree (more intensive, with better staff contact and more freedom to investigate topics that I was interested in), but primarily because I took a year out to teach English abroad and loved it so much that I wanted to go into teaching, but not high school level which seemed to be more about classroom management than engaging with my subject.

The teaching options open to me now would be Further Education / FE college work (still a possibility), or to do a PGCE and teach high school which in all honestly I don't fancy doing.

My experience of applying to industries in my field (Media) with a PhD hasn't been so good thus far, as most of the contact I have had (admittedly, with HR departments, who aren't always the best people to deal with) have been rather dismissive of the postgrad education. This despite the fact that I have a number of years relevant work experience in the financial services sector before I went down the academic path. I guess its just a numbers game, as there must be some company or firm out there that acknowledges the skills of a researcher (project management, presentation / pitch skills, report writing, r&d etc).

I've also found that a humanities PhD is respected more in Continental Europe than in the UK. Outside of the sciences, there does appear to be a culture of anti-intellectualism in some industries, probably to do with the fact that most people don't know what doing a PhD or working at a university entails.

As an alternative to industry, the national research labs can be a pretty decent place to work. Nothing like what they used to be, of course, but at least you don't have the teaching on top of everything else. Also, tend to be a bit more collaborative/teamwork oriented (though this varies). Of course this depends on your field.

A friend of mine with a PhD in the Humanities recently got hired for Facebook. They like smarts, whether its science or humanities background. They are also heavily recruiting in London, as are Google.

Doesn't FE have the same classroom control issues as high school?

I've just moved from 7 years as a postdoc at prestigious UK institution (where I had been based since my undergrad), to another Russel Group university on a tenure-track fellowship. So far, I'd say the pressures at both are similar - as much of the pressures on the sector are external - REF, TEF, impact etc etc. I loved my old place (I think most people always have a special connection with their first University), but I had started to get very down. ~2 years ago I was very close to quitting academia - nearly even applied for a job at British Cycling. I sought some professional help and the thought of my late grandfather killing me if I gave it up, helped get some balance back. I am pleased I have moved - it has been stressful - but it has really given me a fresh perspective and I have lost the baggage I had at the old place. However, I know that this year I really will start to be under pressure to apply for grants, and we all know how much of a lottery that is this days, so I ask me again in 12 months!

If you still love your research (which I think has to be the main driver), then consider whether a move might help. However, I understand the implications on family - I don't have children, but even uprooting my husband caused me worry. It hasn't been easy, but I think it is looking like it was worth it.

For me, industry was a tricky step - my skills are so academic research specific, I was struggling to translate into anything more than project management, which I didn't want to do!

I spent many years in academia and research/ lecturing. I eventually got totally pee'd off with all the pressure and bull that has been mentioned above. I moved to industry and now work half the time I did for much more than twice the pay

Same here, (although not twice the pay), academia certainly changed a lot over the 20 years that I worked in it.

She took a job in industry with a well-respected company here in the UK and gets more or less the same money the universities were offering, but works 9-5, with no pressure to work at weekends. She's doing exactly the same research that she would be doing at the university but now gets her weekend off.

I'm in industry. I'm doing a lot of 9-8 days and if they could, they'd drag me in at weekends - consequently I'm going back to do a masters and then hopefully a PhD - because if I'm going to be doing a 9-8, I wamt to at least enjoy it and spend some time out in the field.

I left academia four years ago. I was a lecturer with a big teaching load, crazy research targets and a big admin load. I jacked it in and went back to teaching in a school and it was like going on holiday. Universities are Darwinian institutions and if you go into it with your eyes open and know there will be a series of selections- post Doc, second post Doc, temp lecturer etc then it may be not so bad. It wasn't for me- long, long hours. I never did a job properly, always just scraping by and always anxious about the targets. I was, in retrospect, a decent lecturer and I was deeply engaged in the job but the constant feeling of not doing enough left me empty. My colleagues, recruited at much the same time, felt similarly.
I'm so glad I got out.

Devash makes a good point.

I've got a social science PhD (Human Geography) - our equivalent to physical science's 'industry' is the public and third sectors, where the pay and T&Cs are worse than academia, so the jump isn't as rosy. Oh, and there are no jobs...

I gave up academia when I realised a) permanent jobs where unlikely and b) I would have to move which for family reasons wasn't practical. Now in the third sector and quite happy with it.

Everyone's view of this will be colored to a large extent by their particular situation, pretty much like in industry. But that said Devash sums up the current state of academia pretty well IMO.

[quote="donncha"]There is a high turnover off staff
I've not read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been covered - the above should tell you the answer here.