You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
My dad is thinking of the time when his gas central heating needs replacement and has spotted an ad for Herschel infrared panel heaters that interests him. Reading between the lines on the company website I don't think they would cope well with his 1920's sash windowed house with poor insulation, in a similar vein to how a heat pump would struggle. I reckon he'd need lots of them and fairly big ones too, which would work out bloody expensive also.
Does anyone have any actual knowledge/experience?
the point of infrared heaters is to heat the person, not the house, using radiation or is it convection
It's radiation Alric.
It'll also heat other materials that are line of site of the panel, which will then release that heat into the room. I understand the concept of how they work, it's the performance of them I'm not convinced by in a house built way before current insulation standards.
then the heat gets absorbed by the walls? so the walls keep the place warm, like old castles did?
dont mean to hijack your thread, just that i'm playing with ir heating at the moment
I put one in my garage (which has some installation) mounted on the ceiling with the hope it would heat me directly below. It sort of does but no where near as well as I wanted, especially given how much it cost. From my albeit limited experience I think the cost of installation and running costs would be higher than replacing a gas boiler which are still going to be the heating choice for the next 10 years at least.
Son has them but only because they only have electric heating & replaced old storage heaters with radiant panels. Me, well I've just replaced a 20yr gas boiler with a new condensing one.
We fitted some in a cafe. Had to go back the next day as the surface of them was incredibly hot, I’d guess at 80 degrees +.We had to put. acage around them so people couldnt touch them. A few months later we went back to do something else, the Owner said they were rubbish, costly, and nowhere near as warm as the panel heaters they replaced.
then the heat gets absorbed by the walls? so the walls keep the place warm, like old castles did?
Yeah, just like if you were heating a person, they stay warm for a while after the IR radiation has stopped. If you've got a high emissivity though the effect wouldn't last long as the energy is soon re-dispersed.
... the surface of them was incredibly hot, I’d guess at 80 degrees ...
Right, this is useful so placement is critical. e.g. if mounted above a sofa, you'd be burning the back of your head off. I kind of assumed they'd be a large area running fairly cool to the touch.
the point of infrared heaters is to heat the person, not the house
I can image there being useful applications for them but I'm not sure a house is one of them.
I worked in an art gallery that had infrared radiators overhead, basically chosen to be as unobtrusive as possible but also because the walls in galleries are the premium space so you don't want to waste wall space by putting a heater on it.
I found the sensation of 'being heated' rather than being in a warm room really quire oppressive, it probably didn't matter if you were a visitor but day in day out it just wasn't 'comfortable'. It was exaggerated by the heat source being overhead but it just wasn't something I'd imagine would feel homely - you're just aware of being subject to a kind of directional glare that doesn't really seem to have a source.
I can see there being sense using them is some commercial applications, particualry where occupants are constantly coming and going - like cafes, shops, warehouses so doors are being opened and closed all the time and its hard to keep warm air in - but they just don't seem like a solution for a home. Partly for what that kind of heating feels like but also because you can't obstruct the light of 'sight' for the heaters otherwise you don't feel the heat. So in siting them you're dictating how that room can be furnished from that point on.
They also only replace your radiators, not your whole heating system because you still need some form of hot water supply.
They also only replace your radiators, not your whole heating system because you still need some form of hot water supply.
Ha - not something that had even crossed my mind when thinking on the practicalities!
Is the problem with electric heating the fact that you need 1kw/h of electricity to produce 1kw/h of heat, ie expensive in the current market(no pun etc)
Heat pumps might produce 3.5x the heat for a given amount of electric because of their superior COP.
Would he be better to draft proof, insulate and change windows, rather than worry about a heating system that's currently working?
Friends have one in a conservatory and I have a 800w in the garage
they do produce a lovely heat but only when you’re in the firing line. Move to the side a metre and it’s like walking outside!
They’re quiet, which is good but I’ve gone back to using a fan heater for the garage as it just works better for a 30-45min fettling job
Speaking as someone who lives in a cottage with thick stone walls, thick stone walls do not keep a place warm, they keep it cold.
Yup, those thick walls were dependant on a) wearing lots of clothes, possibly all the clothes you owned b) a steady supply of fire wood, possibly day and night c) high occupancy, maybe including livestock.
Speaking as someone who lives in a cottage with thick stone walls, thick stone walls do not keep a place warm, they keep it cold.
Speaking as someone who's MiL has a rural house with thick stone walls: you're absolutely right. Good in summer, though 🙂
they do produce a lovely heat but only when you’re in the firing line. Move to the side a metre and it’s like walking outside!
+1
Industrial units with them fitted are weird. When you're 'outside' in the open space it's like standing in the sun in the middle of summer. Walk behind something and it's like walking into the shade and a bit chilly, walk into a room that's not covered by thee heating or into a vehicle and it's like walking outside!
It also left me with really dry skin, I had to apply moisturizer in winter the same way you'd need sunscreen in summer.
I can see the appeal of having them in an infrequently used room as they're really instant. But for everyday use I'd rather have electric storage heaters if gas wasn't an option.
Is the problem with electric heating the fact that you need 1kw/h of electricity to produce 1kw/h of heat, ie expensive in the current market(no pun etc)
Heat pumps might produce 3.5x the heat for a given amount of electric because of their superior COP.
+1
If / When we get the extension done I want to pre-invest for when the boiler dies and gets upgraded to a heat pump which will include solar panels and batteries to manage the load better.
I can see the appeal of having them in an infrequently used room as they’re really instant.
Yep, this. Coincidentally we dropped in to see a mate yesterday and he'd fitted a couple of the ceiling of a new extension. It felt quite pleasant when you were directly underneath them, but more as a supplementary heat source rather than a main one. It occurred to me that one might work quite well in our small kitchen, which is basically unheated with no wall room for conventional radiators, so quite hard to warm up with our central heating system.
Wondering about siting one on the ceiling for use when cooking / washing up / making coffee / hiding from carol singers and / or trick or treaters. I'm looking at it as an unobtrusive alternative to some sort of power-guzzling, high-up mounted fan heater-type thing.
I have a small 180W IR heater under my home office desk for when it's cold and the central heating timer is off and I don't want to turn it on to heat the whole house. I have mixed feelings about it ...
It's only 180W which in heating terms is tiny, very common to see 1500 - 2000W for other heater types, but it does help keep the chill off and keep me comfortable. It feels weird when it on, it has a very gentle warm glow similar to the sun shining through the window, its very subtle, almost feels like its not working but it does magically keep me warm and comfortable.
Downsides are as mentioned its very directional and its effect is reduced the further away you are. The whole thing of radiating the objects around you which then radiate back out to you does work . The heater is under my desk pointing slightly up, my shins feel the instant warmth but after an hour or so I can feel the desk radiating back and feel a gentle warming glow on my thighs and torso too. Once the heater is turned off you can feel the desk still radiating a little while afterwards. It doesn't quite heat me evenly, my legs and chest feel warmer than my back which is facing away from the heater.
Mine is some cheap thing of Amazon, I'm going to stick with it as it just about does what I need ie just take the edge off of a already heated and reasonably well insulated room (double glazing, cavity wall insulation). I would need something much higher power if it was the only source of heating and the room was dead cold.
I'm thinking of getting one for my unheated garage, similar to what you see at pubs and restaurants for outside eating and drinking. I'm usually in one place when working on the bike so I think an IR pointing in the right direction would work here. If I was working on a car or something bigger and moving around the garage then I don't think it would work as I would often walk outside the heated zone.
Wondering about siting one on the ceiling for use when cooking / washing up / making coffee / hiding from carol singers and / or trick or treaters. I’m looking at it as an unobtrusive alternative to some sort of power-guzzling, high-up mounted fan heater-type thing.
If theres no wall room for a radiator you can get under cabinet plinth heaters that are fan-blown but are plumbed into your radiator circuit for the heat source
Oh yes forgot about plinth heaters... You also get electrically heated plinth fan heaters too.
Also might be worth looking into skirting board radiators and see if they do a plinth version of those?
I have 2 700w WiFi infra red panels, cost £90 each. I would sooner have 2 1500w oil radiators £40 each and use them on their lowest 800w setting and then if it gets cold be able to up their output to 1500w.
Make a non smart oil radiator smart by using a WiFi smart plug £10/each.
I've got a chum who has ceiling based units in the kitchen and bathroom in his flat (can't get gas or a heat pump retro fitted as it is a Georgian era tenement). The bathroom is very very cold following the IR installation. They've had to resort to a fan heater on top of that. The kitchen is a bit better. He's in a bit of a rubbish place as electrical heating costs a fortune, but he just doesn't have any choice (hence trying the IR). He (like me) is an engineer, so if anyone us going to make it work, he will. He hasn't yet though.
Contrary to most other posts I've been installing it in out warehouse and it is great. Nothing but positive feedback. Three wall units (like long soundbars) in an area with an extraction fan permanently running on timed switches. In a couple of office spaces where electric storage heaters were previously used. These have a thermostat and occupancy sensors. Finally I'm trialing for static workers on the shopfloor to cut down on fuel oil consumption, heating the roof and having heat disappear when the loading bay doors are opened.