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Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.
Not necessarily a financial or environmental switch but would seem to make a sensible second car as we don't need two big cars.
Interested in how people felt about charging at home given the long charge times.
I know they're not quite ready for the mainstream yet but like to try something new in this regard.
Hybrids seem a bit of a waste of time for what I want, but still interested in experiences.
[url= https://www.treehugger.com/cars/ev1-electric-car-did-it-suck-or-not.html ]They'll never catch on.[/url]
We have had our Nissan Leaf for nearly a year now, its our only car.
Just some background on our driving requirements, don't think if anyone is driving alot of miles it will work out at the current time.
We drive about 8,000 miles a year, nearly all of those trips are less than 50 to 60 miles. We don't work anymore (retired) .
Absolute pleasure to drive, can't underestimate the lack of engine noise, plus the drive with the continuous drive from the electric motor is something to relish.
Nissan and the government had a subsidized grant in place,whereby the installation of a 7 kw home charger cost just £100. You can also charge with a lead and 3 pin plug straight off the mains.
The 7 kw charger will take approx 3 hours from virtually flat to 100%, whereas the 3 pin plug is around 10 or 11 hours.
In reality it is rare that we would go from a very low battery to full charge.
You do have options to set the car up to charge the car up on a timer, alot of people charge overnight.
Really need off street parking, drive or garage for this to work.
If you relied entirely on rapid chargers at service areas the it would cost a bit more for the charge , but only take around 30 to 40 minutes.
Another downside with the rapid chargers, are some inconsiderate drivers parking the ICE cars and therefore blocking the use of the chargers, think similar to disabled car parking bays.
Personally, will never have another petrol or diesel car.
We do have solar panels and a Tesla Powerwall 2 battery which makes the running cost of the car laughably cheap though.
Any specific questions, my email is in my profile.
Thanks Denis.
That's useful.
We're looking at this
https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/vehicles/kia-soul-ev-lease/
How much servicing does your car need?
Our friend's tesla was subject to an attempted break in.
The car has now had a major hissy fit. The boffins are going to reset it or something.
It is an amazing car but the ease with which I can **** up a computer makes me slightly wary of one.
I can only give 3rd hand information, a friend has a Renault Zoe and has had it for 2 years.
They love it.
Does approx. 130 miles per charge, perfectly competent on motorway etc.
Charging is just done over night at home, no issues.
I've got a hybrid.
Much nicer driving experience than a petrol or diesel (electric is just nicer around town)
Hybrids IMO are more of emissions/mpg cheat/improve a petrol engine.
My next car will either be another hybrid or full electric (but no one has developed a half decent (affordable) electric sports car yet)
https://speakev.com/ might be more useful.
Why are you concerned about long charge times at home? Plug it in when you park up, unplug it when you need it again. It has a 6.6kW onboard charger so should take 4 hours or so if you have a suitable point fitted (the OLEV grant covers most of it).
Personally, will never have another petrol or diesel car.
Do you not find the range of the leaf quite restricting? Is the new one not about 100 miles in real world use?
Interested as I've driven a leaf and liked it, wouldn't buy one that as the range wouldn't work for me.
Our friend's tesla was subject to an attempted break in.
The car has now had a major hissy fit. The boffins are going to reset it or something.
It is an amazing car but the ease with which I can **** up a computer makes me slightly wary of one.
That's not really anything to do with it being electric though, all modern cars are full of computers.
We've got Leafs (Leaves?) at work as pool cars. I don't need to worry about range or charging (short journeys and dedicated charging bays) but they're surprisingly nice to drive. As above, the noise of an IC engine shouldn't be underestimated. And the constant, smooth torque is very nice.
Thanks all. Test drive on Saturday.
There was a good review of a Nissan Leaf on UK Climbing - relevant for those who are wondering how an EV will fit into an outdoorsy lifestyle:
[url] https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=9100 [/url]
Servicing is quite cheap, but considering what it involves, will be doing it myself once the car is out of the manufacturer warranty period.
Believe it is £110 for a minor service, and £140 for a major service.
Minor is every year or 12,000 miles, major two years .
Its hardly anything really.
General inspection, cabin filter replacement, check brakes , tyres, windscreen fluid, tyre pressures, general look over. Plug into main dealer computer for error codes.
Only difference for major is all of the above , plus brake fluid flush.
Range isn't an issue for us.
Leaf 24kw version gives a absolute maximum of 90 miles.
But due to our circumstances , more like 70 to 75 maximum.
Had our Leaf for a year and 12k now.
Its a second car and does 40-60 miles a day. Charge it up every night using cheap rate electricity and its ready again in the morning, all lovely and preheated!
The car itself has been faultless and a pleasure to drive - I've carried 4 bikes on the roof as well as a 17ft sea Kayak with no problems.
The charging infrstructure in the UK is on par with the cycle lane infrastructure - patchy and mainly crap with some notable exceptions. The big problem is you can never rely on a charger working and with only 80 or so miles in the tank this is a massive issue. Until this is sorted, EV's will always be relegated to a second vehicle unless you have Tesla money.
Not sure I would buy a Soul - The Leaf 30kwh is a better car and the new 40kwh one should be even better
However everyone apart from Tesla is just playing at EVs at the moment till the time comes when ICE are legislated off the road. then things will start moving very quickly.
We have a Hybrid as our main car. Its horrible to drive due to the lack of a gearbox but at least it can do a 500 mile trip if need be. They are rubbish on mpg unless driven under 50 mph but at least they have little or no tailpipe emissions when in very slow traffic or waiting at lights.
Our next car will almost certainly be a Tesla
However everyone apart from Tesla is just playing at EVs
Ah no, it's just that Tesla has realised that making it extremely fast for little extra cost they can justify the huge price tag which is what pays for the batteries. The major manufacturers are taking it much more seriously by trying to make something that normal people can afford - a much greater challenge.
We have a Hybrid as our main car. Its horrible to drive due to the lack of a gearbox
That's an advantage, for me. Smoothest drive ever.
Do you not find the range of the leaf quite restricting? Is the new one not about 100 miles in real world use?
The new new update (not sure if it's available now or soon but it's been in the press) is a claimed 235miles. Same system is going into the e-NV200 gives 174miles which is very tempting indeed when my C-Max dies, especially if it will still fast charge at service stations.
However everyone apart from Tesla is just playing at EVs at the moment till the time comes when ICE are legislated off the road. then things will start moving very quickly.
I suspect like renewables they'll just reach the tipping point where they work out cheaper then everyone will get one. Remember how quickly solar panels went up on every middle class housing estate the moment the feed in tariff became profitable? Give it a few years when every manufacturer is making 200mile EV's and petrol will be relegated to the poverty spec models only for most people.
There was a feature on you and yours today, r4. Shell launch their first london charge point with 10 more by year end.
They do charge 50p per kw though. I think i d go electric if i lived in a city with good infrastructure. Tbh it wont be long before you are obliged to.
Not sure I would buy a Soul - The Leaf 30kwh is a better car and the new 40kwh one should be even better
I've not seen a Leaf that comes close to the lease price I've been quoted.
I can't get my head around the silly battery leasing options though!
The updated soul is 30Kwh.
Its a second car and does 40-60 miles a day. Charge it up every night using cheap rate electricity and its ready again in the morning, all lovely and preheated!
So you're on E7?
I can't get my head around the silly battery leasing options though!
You pay per month for the battery, and they replace it for 'free' when it's knackered (defined as the capacity dropping by a percentage). If you do the sums it works out pretty much the same as buying the battery outright and replacing it at the end of it's expected lifetime.
The more miles you do the more the lease costs as the sooner the battery will die.
It's not that hard to understand surely?
Dealers can buy and sell the batteries, not sure if that means you the consumer can buy/sell via them or if it's just their stock they can change before selling back to the public.
You could argue it either way, who want's a s/h car that you don't ever own 100%. Or who want's a s/h car with a knackered battery and a bill to replace it? The s/h value is only ever going to be the value of the car minus the remaining life of the battery.
Think of it like buying a car with a tank of petrol, or without. It's just enough petrol to last 40,000miles and can only be filled to 100%. Do you want to pay for that now, or in installments?
Interesting with the move to EV... ICE vehicles must provide a great deal of revenue for the government. I wonder where that declining tax income will get back filled from.
Our next car will almost certainly be a Tesla
Get an insurance quote first - they really don't like them!
I know nothing about electric cars so this may be a stupid question.
Why do electric cars still look the same as a combustion engine car? Whats under the bonnet?
Wrong on all counts molgrips
Tesla have made a car that is extremely fast and luxurious and expensive because that is the only way to break into the car industry. Their endpoint is mass market and a clear direction of travel with the Roadster (£100k plus) to show it could be done, the Model S (£75k base model) to entice the early adopters and tech types with large wallets and the Model 3 (£40k) to get rich middle class on board. If they succeed with the model 3, then I don't doubt they will target a mass market supermini. They are also the only manufacturer that has correctly identified charging infrastructure as a weak point and taken steps to address this. They build thier own batteries and have shaken the industry to its core.
What have the mainstream car manufacturers done? Well Nissan started well with the Leaf and have been the best of a bad bunch but have then sat on thier arse for 6 years. The latest 'new' Leaf is just a face lift with a slightly bigger battery.
All the others are complience cars except the BMW i3 which is too expensive for what it is and too wacky for most. Toyota are the worst, with a huge head start provided by the hybrid tech they designed they could have been light years ahead by now if they hadn't ended up in the pocket of the fossil fuel lobby and gone off down the ludicrous hydrogen path.
The motor industry never wanted EV's and it still doesn't. Until it is dragged kicking and screaming into developing proper useable EV's with 5 doors, boot space and 300-400 mile ranges for around 20-25k by legislation it will continue to dick around at the margis while making stupid headline grabbing proclamations about how all of our range will have electric motors by xyz date meaning there will be a tiny battery hybrid stuck in next to the ice - thus keeping our friends in the oil industry and the various maindealer networks who depend on servicing happy.
And the CVT gear box in Toyota/Lexus hybrids is legendary for being nasty - just google it!
You could argue it either way, who want's a s/h car that you don't ever own 100%. Or who want's a s/h car with a knackered battery and a bill to replace it?
It's simply part of the cost per mile.
Perhaps some kind of fuelling payment service where you charge at home, then Nissan bill you for the charge in addition to your electricity bill - but you get free batteries.
It suggests £3 for a Leaf charge, so say 90 miles on that, that's 3.3p/mile. So if battery lease is £70/mo then if you do 600 miles a month as a light user that's 11p/mile plus the 3p, so 14p/mile.
About the same price as getting 37mpg in a petrol car.
It's not that hard to understand surely?
No, when you've explained it. But have you seen car manufacturers websites recently?
It makes it tricky to compare car models that's all.
Thanks, though.
Their endpoint is mass market and a clear direction of travel with the Roadster (£100k plus) to show it could be done, the Model S (£75k base model) to entice the early adopters and tech types with large wallets and the Model 3 (£40k) to get rich middle class on board. If they succeed with the model 3, then I don't doubt they will target a mass market supermini.
Ah yes the old 'it'll get cheaper' thing.
Until it is dragged kicking and screaming into developing proper useable EV's with 5 doors, boot space and 300-400 mile ranges for around 20-25k by legislation
As if it's simply a lack of desire. If they could produce such a thing don't you think they'd be all over it? They'd sell like hot cakes! Car manufacturers aren't stupid. You don't get to be that big and rich being stupid these days.
The fundamental issue is that batteries are really expensive and they need loads of them. Musk is staking a lot on the idea that the price will continue to come down, but I am not convinced. We'll see. I don't think a £10k EV is on the cards. I would absolutely love to be wrong mind.
But it's ridiculous to say the main manufacturers are not taking EVs seriously, since they are all sinking loads of cash into them.
have then sat on thier arse for 6 years.
Bollocks. They are coming from a different place than Tesla, that's all. I bet they are all working pretty hard, and they'll come out with a better car minus the ludicrous speed gimmicks.
And the CVT gear box in Toyota/Lexus hybrids is legendary for being nasty - just google it!
Don't need to - I own one and I've driven 120k miles in it. And I like it. I also know how it works, and that it's not a CVT gearbox even though it works like one 🙂
OK OK eCVT then pedant :lol:- you must be the only one who likes it! But each to their own
20 years ago GM brought out an electric car. It was about the size of the Leaf and could do around 70 miles on a charge. Since then we have invented the internet, mobile phones, laptops and rechargeable vibrators Not to mention a million other things connected to the car like incredibly complex diesel engines but funnily enough we have barely imnproved EV's......
Tesla uses gimmicks like 0-60 to get headlines. Headlines are cheap marketing. Marketing sells cars. They are not all P100D's.
20 years ago GM brought out an electric car. It was about the size of the Leaf and could do around 70 miles on a charge. Since then we have invented the internet, mobile phones, laptops and rechargeable vibrators! Not to mention a million other things connected to the car like incredibly complex diesel engines but funnily enough we have barely imnproved EV's.
Yes because there is a fundamental technology ceiling involved.
You're cite all that technology, but what about all the other things that we haven't developed? The first jetpack was invented in the 60s but they haven't improved in range or practicality, but we understand that there's a fundamental issue with energy density. Planes are also flying no faster than they were in the 70s and barely carrying more people.
Sometimes we can incrementally improve things constantly, and other times there's a fundamental hurdle that has to be overcome. EVs are one of those things. When someone* invents a radical new battery technology with 3x the energy density, then the next year they'll all be selling cars with 3x the range and cars with the same range and 1/3 the cost
* that person will be a chemist, and won't work for a car company!
There is no fundamental technology ceiling - planes are flying the same speed and with no more people on them because there is no business case for any increase in either. Concorde proves one and the pointless soon to be discontinued Airbus 380 proves the other.
Same with EV's - if there had been a compelling business case to develop better battery tech companies would have diverted rescources to achieve it years ago.
We may have reached tipping point now however with the final realisation that not only is air pollution is a big problem but that it can't be kept quiet anymore.
There is no fundamental technology ceiling - planes are flying the same speed and with no more people on them because there is no business case for any increase in either.
The ceiling with planes is physical - it takes far more energy to fly supersonic, which means small planes with fewer paying passengers and much bigger fuel bills. My point is that most of us aren't going 'oh engines will get more efficient, planes will be more economic when the plane companies pull their fingers out'.
Same with EV's - if there had been a compelling business case to develop better battery tech companies would have diverted rescources to achieve it years ago.
Not in the least. A better battery is the holy freakin grail of tech. Everyone from Apple to Samsung to Tesla to VW is crying out for it. And people are working hard on it, but it's just really hard. Most of our tech advances have been tweaking things here and there - but with batteries, we need a completely new chemistry. Like quantum computing would be.
You're kidding yourself if you think there are all sorts of incremental advances waiting to happen. Battery tech specifically just doesn't work like that. Science is in the way.
I've been on this forum long enough to know that you will never change your mind molgrips!
Anyway whatever, the pressing need for cheap mass produced normal EV's with decent range coupled with a proper charging infrastructure is something that we can both agree is needed and hopefully achiveable before our children die of various airbourne pollutants
I will if you give me some science 🙂
I agree though that we desperately need better battery tech. I thought that liquid flow batteries would work nicely - drain the spent fluid and put some more in just like filling with petrol.
Article about the theoretical energy density limits of battery tech vs hydrocarbons:
https://thebulletin.org/limits-energy-storage-technology
We need a new chemistry to increase energy density, and all the ones we know about have big technical challenges. So we need one of those to be cracked before we can proceed. It will probably happen eventually - ten, twenty years maybe - but until it does we're stuck. And it's not the car manufacturers' fault.
Its not a debate about science but about economics.
Battery innovation is hard? Of course it is but its even harder when [url= http://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2016/04/15/whats_holding_back_new_battery_innovation_109113.html ]no one wants to pay the development cost[/url]
Mass use of EV cars could work, but not without a number of things happening.
Given the discussion above on the limited range of the current EV cars.
More rapid chargers at places where people shop, work and visit. These won't really work in petrol stations, as there is nothing to do whilst charging.
It will need a change in driver behaviour. Most of the time, your car sits idle, we can use this idle time for charging.
Most of the time we don't need a tank full of fuel with the capability to drive over 300 or so miles.
Yes, there are issues for lorries, taxi drivers and long distance drivers etc.
But a big impact could be made for the majority of motorists.
Cheaper than petrol or diesel, quieter, better for the local environment instead of being stuck in traffic jams and congestion belching pollutants.
Its not a debate about science but about economics.
Well it's both - but more the commercial environment. If it were possible to increment gradually, then investors would be working as usual. It's because of the nature of the problem that it requires a different strategy.
I think governments should step in here tbh.
Isn't graphene supposed to be a potential changer in the battery industry?
I think there are lots of potential changers, it's a question of implementation afaik.
Electricity has to come from somewhere, and we are still using fossil fuels to generate it.
Battery production is massively environmentally damaging due to the rare metals used.
I'm not sure there is currently a viable alternative to fossil fuels in the majority of vehicles.
I'm tempted to change my old car (it's 15 years old and works fine) eventually to a small van (for bikes) and an electric Zoe for commutes into the city (Manchester). Stump up the £70 a month rental, and I get free charging at work.
The car will be useless for a trip to our caravan in North Wales as we couldn't charge it (site electrics won't cope with more than a low powered kettle and a heater).
There was something I read recently about a Tesla being used by a Californian rental company that went in for a service with a concern about the battery not holding its charge as well as it should. It was discovered that the issue was down to a firmware update, which was done, but Tesla changed the battery anyway.
The car has 300,000 miles on the clock, it’s believed that with care over charging procedures, ie not charging to 100% except when really necessary and making sure firmware was kept up to date 500,000 miles seems perfectly possible.
As my Skoda has only done 133,000 miles since new, and it’s nearly sixteen years old, should I buy a Tesla it would certainly outlast me.
I only do around 5k/year anyway...
Four months with Zoé. A delight to drive. Range is adequate for what we do, the 400km from the official test result can be done if you are very careful and we get around 320km driving with the flow of traffic and at least another 20km in reserve because we haven't driven it to flat to find out just how far it will go. Cost isn't an issue but it's more expensive than the equivalent Clio in battery + electricity costs compared with petrol. Servicing and insurance are cheaper but overall it'll be slightly more expensive.
People seem to want the Zoé to be the cheapest car on the road which it isn't, but they're the owners of an Audi A-soemthing, Capture, lifestyle vehicle X... which cost a lot more. In terms of driving experience per euro, it's well up there.
Drive one for a day and make up your own mind.
Battery production is massively environmentally damaging due to the rare metals used.
There's a plant in France with recycling of all the nasties with the resudue used in cement blocks.
we are still using fossil fuels to generate it.
My solar panels produce more than our total electricity consumption including car charging
The car will be useless for a trip to our caravan in North Wales as we couldn't charge it (site electrics won't cope with more than a low powered kettle and a heater)
Every campsite we visited over the Summer had a 10A socket somewhere for us to plug in to. If you can run a heater and a kettle you can charge a Zoé (takes 25hr from flat on the lowest charge rate though)
Electricity has to come from somewhere, and we are still using fossil fuels to generate it.
That's changing very quickly.
Battery production is massively environmentally damaging due to the rare metals used.
From what I can tell, there are mines that are bad for the environment, but I don't think this is *necessarily* the case? There are plenty of copper and gold mines that are bad for the environment, but mostly because they don't look after their shit. Is there a reason why a lithium mine MUST be bad for the environment?
The balance of electricity generation is shifting to more renewables, and will continue to do so.
Obviously I am not typical of most people, as we have solar panels, Tesla Powerwall 2 battery and a Nissan Leaf.
Just going to quote some data from 14th August to 14th October on the possible electricity generation, from renewables off our roof.
Granted, the figures will be worse for the next few months, but perhaps gives an insight into running costs.
The car will have been charged from our own solar generation over this period, seldom use a rapid charger.
Data period
14th August to 14th October, detached house, four adults.
The home consumed 1220 kw
Solar panels produced 710 kw
The Tesla PW stored 314 kw
We paid for ( drew) from the grid 600 kw
Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.
We have one at work. Nice car - smooth, comfortable, quiet and well equipped. Real world range is about 100 miles. Boot is rather small. It's been reliable - the only fault being a faulty tyre pressure sensor.
Consumption: sept 145KWh, août 78, jul 155, juin 125, mai 133, avr 120, mars 135, feb 130, jan 162 dec160, nov 172, oct 125.
Production: sept 335, a 359, jul 438, jun 429, mai 441, avr 428, mar 313, fev 227, jan 158, dec 145, nov 151, oct 262
No gas, solar thermal for most of the hot water, about 2m3 of wood for heating and cooking between November and March.
what's your house like edukator? [s]and when is everyone going to be out?[/s]
I'm guessing it's not a draughty Victorian terrace?
We have one at work. Nice car - smooth, comfortable, quiet and well equipped. Real world range is about 100 miles. Boot is rather small. It's been reliable - the only fault being a faulty tyre pressure sensor.
Thanks.
Yeah, the boot could be bigger.
A small individual house built in 1933 but no longer cold and draughty, Doris. Walls, floor and roof all well insulated, triple-glazed windows, LEDs everywhere, low consumption appliances.
The car will be useless for a trip to our caravan in North Wales as we couldn't charge it
nor will it cater for my requirement to deliver grandfather clocks to the other end of the country*.
the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.
*i have no such requirement.
Why do electric cars still look the same as a combustion engine car? Whats under the bonnet?
The motor, inverter and whatnot are fairly large, and there's still all the ancillary things for cabin heating / cooling, brakes, power steering etcetera.
That said, when our Zoe was new an indicator bulb wasn't quite clicked home properly; I could have changed it with boxing gloves on there was so much space around it. It was truly a revelation compared to most cars that need triple jointed, child sized arms with no qualms about getting scratched and dirty...
We just got our Zoe back today after getting it repaired due to someone driving into it. I am so excited about driving home later, it's just such a lovely experience compared to any petrol and especially diesel car I've driven. The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.
The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.
LOL. truely hateful. they must have put some effort in to making corsas such bad cars.
the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.
Yes but that doesn't mean all journeys are of average length.....
Kia Soul tested at the weekend.
Great drive, quiet and smooth. Lots of toys and big in the front. Good for the Gfs shorter journeys.
Ordered on lease 1100+199 a month. I reckon 4 ish quid for a tank full of leccy. That should last around 120miles depending on where and how it's driven.
Cheaper to lease than to buy new in this instance by a long shot.
BEVerly my i3
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[/img]
I'm lucky enough to work in the car industry and have driven pretty much everything with wheels on. And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i've ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)
Running costs are so low as to be not worth adding up. It went in for it's 2 year service a month or so back, and that cost £196, which actually doubled the years running costs including fuel.....
4th year driving a Leaf.
The worst thing about driving it is having to listen to the ill-informed shit about batteries and sources of electricity production etc. It is more sustainable and non-polluting than a fossil fuel vehicle. Fact.
The charging infrastructure is messy and has a long way to go before it works properly.
Range needs to be around 200 miles to be enough for most people as an only car. Saying that I get about 120 and it's enough for me. I don't pay for my fuel, get free charging at work and there's a few free chargers about. A 6.6kWh onboard charger makes a difference IMO as you get a useful amount from the fast chargers dotted around.
2 more years and they'll really be there. Some very good second-hand deals around, as a runaround car it's a no brainer.
They are excellent to drive, actually makes commuting more fun.
Also been looking at the new Soul, looks nice.
The local auction house sometimes get a Leaf for sale.
They are really cheap, suppose folk are scared off due to Battery ignorance.
Wonder if the warranty is transferable as the cars are from Lease companies?
I'd be interested but mu commute is 55 miles each way and I don't have charging at work. A mate is looking as his commute is 17 miles and his current car's got to 155,000 miles and starting to cost a bit.
And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i've ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)
That's interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.
The Soul had no lag, no gear change jump (eat your heart out my own DSG) , super smooth poise and no engine noise of course. All add up to a pleasant driving experience.
A new way of appreciating a car.
However I can see how this range anxiety could be a 'thing'.
I also wonder in the future if demand for EVs and electric power starts to compete with petrol , does that mean electricity being market driven will also rocket up as demand increases, and get taxed etc. Thereby negating one of its major benefits.
BEVerly my i3
Do you have the range extender? I've heard that it's unpleasantly noisy when it cuts in.
That's interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.
Same for the Prius. So easy to drive - you can be as clumsy as you like with the pedals and it doesn't jerk the passengers around.
Cheaper than petrol or diesel,
But is it? Comparisons are usually against EVs with a subsidy of several thousand pounds to buy and electricity with a 5% VAT rate against ICEs which have heavy taxes on both ownership and fuel.
EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market.
My dad's just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I'll update you in a year, if you can hang on? 😀
I like the idea of the i3 with range extender, bit expensive though.
£36500..
Bit much innit.
IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.
Think scalectrix,you use your battery to drive to the motorway and then hook in to the power track then you can drive as far as you like the battery part ceases to be an issue as you dont need to carry energy to power the car.
No-one wants to pay for the infrastructure thou 🙁
IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.
Electric motors are not new, but burning fossil fuel is medieval.
Range extenders so far have been either normal engines or, as in the case of the i3, a motorbike engine. I dunno why they can't fit a really efficient generator tuned to a single speed and load.
EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market
Total cost of ownership my be wobbly - but if it suits your lifestyle and you have a tariff of about 12pKW - then it's almost certainly cheaper to run.
That's why I'm leasing, depreciation is way more on a purchase in my case.
@rone, what's the battery cost?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?
The battery isn't separate on the Kia Soul. So all in.
7 year warranty includes battery on the Kia.
My dad's just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I'll update you in a year, if you can hang on?
Out of my league but interested nonetheless.
"I can't get my head around the silly battery leasing options though!"
"@rone, what's the battery cost?
i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else's problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs? "
Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:
YOU DON'T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!
All EV's on the market with one exception (Zoe) are battery bought and even Renault have woken up and will be discontinuing that system next year.
EV batteries are warrantied for a MINIMUM of 5 years - they have to be to obtain the government subsidy. There are many manufacturers who exceed this including Nissan, Kia, Tesla and Hyundai
Renting batteries was only ever offered on a few gen 1 Leafs and the Zoe and its predecessor the hilariously named e-Fluence
Why this myth persists I don't know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle
Why this myth persists I don't know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle
Because car manufacturing websites are rubbish at imparting information?
Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:YOU DON'T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!
noted - thanks for the clarification. But -
Why this myth persists I don't know.
I'll tell you! It's because many people (unlike, it seems, most of STW) don't actually buy new cars. So I go and look up used EVs [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/should-you-buy-a-used-electric-car-a7704121.html ]and see articles like this from April 2017[/url] - which state quite clearly that you need to pay to lease a battery. I didn't realize that they're all moving away from this, and that this info only really relates to older cars - and those articles don't really make it clear.
@Doris - you are spot on. The amount of incorrect and disinformation out their on EV's is incredible. Even that reasonably researched article you linked to has several mistakes and doesn't really explain that you would be crazy to buy a second hand battery lease car, even at £3000 as you are entering into an unlimited rental contract on a second hand vehicle. There are legions of stories out there on EV forums of people locked into battery lease contracts they can't get out of easily.
Its the same with depreciation - they are based on the list price before the £5k grant comes off and skewed by the battery leasing options to give a incorrect depreciation percentage. New EV's depreciate no more than other cars (still a lot obviously) and infact my secondhand one (2yrs old at point of purchase) has flatlined this year as EV's have gained popularity and I could sell it for waht i bought it for despite it having 12k more on the clock!
Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.Not necessarily a financial or environmental switch but would seem to make a sensible second car as we don't need two big cars.
Interested in how people felt about charging at home given the long charge times.
Wife's colleague has one (Soul EV) as a company car. Charges to 80% in 20 mins. They collect their daughter from Uni (300 mile trip) and recharge at a service station whilst having a coffee each way.
They love it.
Just spent the last few days stress testing an I3 with the range extender.
First BMW in 15+ years i'd actually consider buying/leasing. Except the electric range is a bit marginal for my daily drive, an extra 20-30% and it'd be spot on. I really need a minimum of 180-200. We've found it to be nearer 140-150.
Only issue was the regen at zero pedal was very aggressive, took some getting used to (regen is bad for range, but good for city driving and driving feel), and the wind noise was very noticeable, but probably no worse than any other sit up and beg car. Just sounds worse with the lack of engine noise (and i understand the tyres are amongst the quietest on the market.)
Range extender was all but unnoticeable in city driving and couldn't hear it over the wind noise at highway speeds. Stood outside the car, it was a little obtrusive, and sounded odd as pitch/engine speed doesn't change in the same as a conventional car would.
Got a Tesla to do the same testing with next week, and a golf the week after and then a Chevy Volt. Unless it breaks down. Again.
I'd have a Tesla tomorrow, but we've nowhere to charge it at work or at home (our drive and garage are separate from our house, across someone else's land. The garage does not have enough pitched roof to put lots of solar panels on, and gets overshadowed anyway).
However I can see how this range anxiety could be a 'thing'.
Having had a Zoe for a nearly two months now we've got used to how far it will go, and - in general - the number of places you can recharge, so we've not had a problem at all.
Yesterday though I started planning how we'll visit family in Lincolnshire, and it all went out the window because they don't seem to have heard of rapid chargers over there. I think we'll be taking the other car, unfortunately...
Second charging lead on my Golf has failed in month 19 of use. £811 list price if it was out of the 3 year warranty (& a disincentive to getting a second one for leaving at work).
Bloody hel! How can a glorified jump lead cost the thick end of a grand?!? Is it made by Apple??
So buy one from an aftermarket EV lead company
[url= https://evconnectors.com/ev-plug-vw-volkswagen-e-golf-cable ]c'mon guys help yourselves a bit[/url]
Meh. The wife's wee fiat 500 is the thick end of 600 quid for an exhaust, that's just a bit of (shit quality) pipework.
Enjoying this thread, her next car will be electric for sure.
I've been on this forum long enough to know that you will never change your mind molgrips!
I will if you give me some science
Who are you kidding 🙄