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As a follow on to my 'young drivers insurance' thread from last week, this morning I picked up a 9-year-old Aygo from the dealer. I'd had a brief test drive, but my spidey-sense noted a highish bite point on the clutch and just considered it a feature, rather than something concerning.
Cue today, and she is having a spot of bother on hillstarts with it, which I put down to a touch of inexperience in a car with a different engine note. So I head up the local hill to polish her technique.
I managed it fine, but then a familiar burning smell...
It's still changing gear fine, so the only real indicators are smell and high bite point, which suggests to me that it's possibly on the way out.
What approach would the STW collective take to this one? TIA.
Yes, I have. A 1998 Seat Toledo that had a sudden drop in oil pressure according to the warning lamp and buzzer. It was 18 months old. Garage said it was a pressure switch fault, changed it but it carried on doing it. I used their 30 day exchange policy for another Toledo of similar vintage/mileage. No hassles really.
I would contact them straight away and see what they have to say.
warranty ?
Clutch is normally a wear and tear item.
I've had the car in my possession for about six hours.
Yes. A Citroen Picasso back in 2005 from a big car supermarket in York.
It was totally drenched inside from valeting on receipt, but I had no other day to pick it up... however when I got home, saw the oil was on minimum, coolant the same and most importantly brake fluid below minimum I rejected it. Told them they had 24h to pick it up; I couldn't drive it as it was unsafe.
Money back in my account PDQ.
As I understand it, REJECTION means you return the car to the dealer then wait for them to give your money back. Obviously they wont, so youll have to use the courts, they will probably close the business to change their name and youll end up with nothing, no car, no refund.
Take advice before doing this.
IS the clutch covered by warranty ? Youll get a nice new clutch for nowt.
If its not fit-for-purpose go to trading standards, they may help.
Wasn't planning to go nuclear on them from the off. It's a reasonable sized main dealer (for another make), so I'm not sure they'll scarper on the back of refunding a few grand.
Just wonder what other people's experiences were. With those symptoms, would I be justified in asking for a new clutch, and rejecting if that wasn't forthcoming?
would I be justified in asking for a new clutch, and rejecting if that wasn’t forthcoming?
Yes, on both counts, assuming the clutch is on its way out so soon after purchase.
This might be helpful
https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car
I had Citroen C1 with a slipping clutch, only really a problem if I floored it in 3rd gear.
Then one day it went completely, luckily 200 yards from my door, with no warning.
In another stroke of luck, there's a Clutch Centre just round the corner. Who were happy to relieve me of £210 to change it
Clutch is classed as a wearable item so highly unlikely covered under warranty. Just go in and have a friendly chat. Dealers are really scared of poor reviews, dealer standards are monitored by the manufacturer, so handled in the right way, best case scenario: new clutch FOC. Worst case, they'll fit a new clutch with a contribution to the cost from you. Good luck
Yes many years ago the car wasn’t right after a week or so, think it was the suspension but can’t fully recall. They did fix though without feeling the need to go through the expensive of closing down and restarting a business.
In such a short period and with it being such an evident fault after a long test drive I doubt you’ll have many issues, just as ever be polite about the problem.
Why reject? Why not just ask them to fit a clutch?
If your daughter has slipped the clutch badly it will smell when you pull away for a bit.
A worn clutch will slip first in top gear. Get it up to speed in top gear and floor it, watch the rev counter and see if it rises with no increase in speed. You can try to provoke it by deliberately slipping the clutch, when you release it, the revs should drop immediately back to where they were before slipping the clutch.
PS As weeksy says, just get them to replace the clutch if it's gone...that's better than buying another car that will have a part worn one. And parts for these are dirt cheap anyway.
Why reject? Why not just ask them to fit a clutch?
That's the first option - was just interested how easy it would be to get shot of it if they didn't do the sensible thing.
watch the rev counter
It's an Aygo - I was surprised to find it didn't have one as well. EDIT: Oh hang on, apparently it does!
it will smell when you pull away for a bit.
How long for, do you reckon?
Just for a few days I would have thought. I made a very enthusiastic start in a van and I was quite surprised to get a fair amount of clutch smoke from the dash vents...that took about a week to stop being a bit smelly.
A high bite point cab indicate the clutch has reached the end of its adjustment, but slipping in too gear is the proof.
Smell is not an indicator of a worn clutch.
Smell is an indicator of user error.
It's possible that a few failed hill starts in an unfamiliar vehicle by a new driver would know a few thousand miles off a clutches life....but if it's still shifting fine and not slipping in top gear you'll have difficulty getting it rejected on a worn clutch
Fair enough. I'll do some top gear testing over the next couple of days.
Thanks everyone.
Spookys advice is good, if someone's been slipping the clutch trying to hill start it will stink for a while afterwards.
Putting it under load in a high gear is the easiest way to work out if it is slipping.
Under the consumer rights act you have the right to return the vehicle within a curtain time period (can't remember off the top of my head) for a full refund. Just take it back tomorrow or Monday and say your daughter didn't get on with it.... They'll prob try to sell you something else...
Edit - it's 30days, but you have to declare the fault. And a high clutch is a wear item so prob wouldn't be covered. I'd still speak to the dealer and explain that she's not getting on with it due to the clutch.
I rejected a car 6weeks into ownership, long story short, got the cash back from the bank rather than going through the courts.
Shirley wear on a clutch relates to mileage?
So if it's 150k then it's your problem, less so if it's 50K?
Not if the vehicle has just been bought from a dealer. consumer protection still applies. A car with a knackered clutch is the dealers responsibility to sort out
High bite point says to me its possibly worn out
Yaris of that era are renound for high clutches Just read the reviews.possible.aygos same
Edit.... Augos even worse apparently.
So if it’s 150k then it’s your problem, less so if it’s 50K?
Clutch wear is dependent on the driver more than mileage...those with little mechanical sympathy and hold the car at a red light on the bite point rather than the brakes, use the clutch as a footrest, or use lots of throttle before releasing the clutch fully can easily kill a clutch in 50k. A more sympathetic driver can easily get over 150k.
What Spooky said above - top gear test should tell you all you need to know. I had an old 20v petrol engined Passat bought 2nd hand with a very high bite point.. I was certain it was goosed.. after 12 months or so I bit the bullet and got the clutch and DMF replaced.. it was nearly exactly the same with all the new bits on. It may just be a characteristic of the car.
Just to add to comments above, we have a 2010 Aygo sat on the drive. The clutch bite point has been very high since my eldest daughter purchased it about 6 years ago. It's survived 6 years of (ab)use by my first, then second daughter. It still feels very high and still doesn't slip, so it's highly likely that it is normal.
Yaris of that era are renound for high clutches Just read the reviews.possible.aygos same
Edit…. Augos even worse apparently.
Trying to remember if the manual Aygos we get in at work have a significantly high bite point on the clutch, can’t say it’s something that I’ve especially noticed; next one I have to drive I’ll see what it’s like.
Zafiras are one of the worst I’ve found for a high bite point along with a really heavy return spring, moving in slow stop/start traffic I usually have to press my foot down using my hand on my knee to keep pressure on it, due to my shonky left knee.
It’s why I’ve come to really, really appreciate auto and semi-auto ‘boxes these days!
Zafiras are [s]one of[/s] the worst.
FTFY. No more need be said.
Have you looked at seeing if it can be adjusted. These cars have a cable actuated clutch, there's an adjuster on the top/rear of the gearbox (though you might need about 3 wrists per arm to access it)
Just to add to comments above, we have a 2010 Aygo sat on the drive. The clutch bite point has been very high since my eldest daughter purchased it about 6 years ago. It’s survived 6 years of (ab)use by my first, then second daughter. It still feels very high and still doesn’t slip, so it’s highly likely that it is normal.
That's reassuring. I was in pure pessimism mode yesterday. I hate buying used cars with a passion.
It's only a short termer anyhow. Once I can get her brother through the test and get them both onto the same insurance, it will be sold on.
Thanks everyone.