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Has anyone ever bought a plot of land and built a home on it?
Wondering how difficult this is from a getting planning permission and approvals and getting electricity, water etc installed pint of view.
There are many programs on TV about people rebuilding houses in places where there already was a house so I think the construction side of things I have a vague idea how difficult this is. but I have no idea about the process leading up the building of house.
I'm not trying to go grand designs and build some thing huge and amazing. Just want to build a humble holding for my self but want it to be unique and maybe see if I can get better valve for money by building my self?
any good websites or books I should read to get an idea of what is involved?
There’s a self-build magazine. Not sure if it has a handy forum attached or not...
We've bought land and built plenty of homes, buy unfortunately not for me yet! It's not hard but there's plenty of paperwork involved and you will need cash flow, plenty of cash flow, the last thing you want to hold up your project is say not having enough money to buy something fundamental like roof trusses. I see it regularly even with local builders.
Oh and get a decent architect in board, ask to see his previous designs. It's very easy to spend other people's money by drawing pretty pictures.
Hmm.
In laws are doing it. They're retired and have time available. They've got building trade experience in the past. They've done three property restorations to varying degrees both in this country (their own place was sorely in need of TLC when bought) and France (series of holiday homes) and only now are going ahead with a full build.
Because they're retired, they will do some light labouring and because they have a tame architect they will project manage with some help from the architect. They have no particular deadlines and can wait out until trades are available. They have fairly extensive experience on the decorating stages to apply later in the project.
They were lucky to have a large plot on their old house which is being split. That meant an infill type development which is easier on planning and finance.
Your post suggests that you've watched some entertaining telly and said "how hard can it be". Correct me if I'm wrong.
Would suggest gaining experience of smaller projects and working up, before tackling a full house. Otherwise you are going in blind.
Standard disclaimers - I am not a builder, YMMV, etc.
And don't buy any land unless you are 100% sure you will get the required planning permission. There is a reason why one patch of land can be worth considerably more than another.
There's a lot of things that planning permission may require that you'll have never even heard of - I do ground investigations, we come in and tell epople how stong the ground is, what foundations they need and what contamination is there that may need cleaning up. That's often a planning condition, as is stuff like ecology surveys, parking plans, all sorts. None of that ever gets shown on the TV, it's all been done in the year or two leading up to the actual buidling. It can be costly - ground investigations start at about £3000 depending on where you are and what the council wants.
We’ve bought land and built plenty of homes, buy unfortunately not for me yet! It’s not hard
I'm going out on a limb here, but, it's not hard for you because you have done it before, many times. You know where the pitfalls and beartraps are.
OP, if you are self building please build a modern practical house and get a good architect.
The house I am in at the moment is so poorly designed it is laughable and impractical but then the location is brilliant for me to get to work. I mean some pea brain have installed ALL the doors in the flat the wrong way around (front door is double door and when open the width is only about two feet ... how dumb is that) and the landlord let them be or perhaps the present landlord buy-to-let just couldn't be arsed to make it right.
If I got the money I will go for self build too.
I suspect that house may have been designed especially for you.
And don’t buy any land unless you are 100% sure you will get the required planning permission.
This. It's the main thing you can't control and is the biggest risk to success.
I suspect that house may have been designed especially for you.
Luckily I am just renting but that is a pea brain front door design and the owner admitted that. In the even of emergency it is through the window escape coz the front door is a death trap. I even suggested to the owner that I would be willing to pay 50% of the cost to make the front door right. But typical of buy-to-let landlord they just brushed it off. Profit first. The flat is nice and cosy but this 1969 design should at least got the front door right ...
+1 on planning approval, that is most important.
Regarding the build it's not magic to build a house, befriend and employ an experienced builder to advise you.
Do not trust architects.
Calculate total construction costs and time. Then double them and add 50%.
That will give you a real world completed cost and timescale.
If you build anything make it net zero energy use. It will pay you back for the lifetime of the building.
Calculate total construction costs and time. Then double them and add 50%.
That will give you a real world completed cost and timescale.
Wow! Is that actual science?
If I were doing it, I'd get the plot of land sorted and make sure the services I wanted could be brought in. Then I'd look for a timber framed kit house I liked off the shelf, have someone come in and do required groundworks for that and put in foundation. Then get the timber frame suppliers to erect the kit house so it was wind and rain tight. Then I'd do what I could internally myself, bringing in trades where needed.
Do not trust architects.
Just for the design bits ...
Any advise or info on how to learn more about the approval process?
I really don't have a clue about rules and regulations more than; I know you can't just buy any old bit of land and stick up some walls and roof. So it'll be good to educate my self a bit so I know what I could potentially be getting into. Currently I'm very pessimistic thinking its impossible so just saying NO! But maybe with a bit more knowledge I could see some light at the end of tunnel and think "yeah lets give it a go"
From watching grand designs and other property programs tv, I will most definitely be using the experts as much as I can. Pretty much every time they skimp on the costs and do it them selfs they make some mistakes and it ends up costing more and taking twice as long. Cutting costs is not really what I'm after more something bespoke and unique. So I think I'd be relying on experts to manage the project and keep it on track.
I have an architect friend self building near me and the costs really can spiral out of control. It's his money too, you really can get carried away. Good luck tho...if I had shedloads of cash and a dream in mind.
You'd have a bit more certainty if you bought a plot that already had a house on it that you could knock down and rebuild. Planning permission would still be required but you'd have a fair degree more confidence that it'd be granted (depending on your proposal of course).
An undeveloped site is always going to be a risk.
@mrmonfinger no one knows where the pitfalls are to be fair. Back in the days of over zealous LA building inspectors they could cost you thousands in the ground.
You will need ground investigation and I would then always get an engineer to design my foundations around that. Getting it right from the ground up is key.
Concrete isn't just for fun it's for life so pre floor casting get your services in, downstairs toilets, dedicated sink wastes etc, water, min 750 down so get a duct through that foundation, gas is over ground so isn't a problem.
The rest is just general building bit there are so many ways to go about it structure wise. Do your research.
As for doubling it and adding 50% that's bobbins, if your budget goes that much over you were way off in the first place.
As for planning, Have a look around, find out about the local plan, if you pick a field in the middle of no where than chances services connections will kill the build and planning may be an issue.
Your biggest cost will be the land I'm afraid these days, that's due to such programmes as grand designs and homes under the hammer.
However planning can be got on gardens/fields anywhere and you can approach the planning officer informally in some boroughs for an informal request.
If I had the cash I'd be doing it.
I looked into it in some detail a few years back. I concluded it really comes down to land-prices in the area you are looking at; in my area they were just too high, and adding in the build cost (and especially the groundworks) it was too expensive.
If land is cheap then it could offer maybe 20percent saving on buying a place, but costs do get out of control and sometimes places are hard to sell on if they are designed to a very personal vision, which others will not share.
I’ve dabbled we built (rebuilt) a bungalow into a modern barn conversion style.
The buildhub forum is a great source of knowledge. It’s a very satisfying but utterly life dominating project.
I have land with planning permission in principle and have been mulling various house options from the below for example. I am also tempted to learn sketchup to put some ideas together.
https://www.ruralhouse.co.uk/
https://www.hebrideanhomes.com/
http://makar.co.uk/
https://www.norscotkits.co.uk/kit-home-designs/
https://www.scotframe.co.uk/
Many companies will also offer customisation/architect etc and various levels of service from just the kit to turnkey build.
Get yourself along to one of these shows and attend the lectures, there will be several about getting the land through to house design and construction, there's also various online resources through the magazine https://www.homebuildingshow.co.uk/
However planning can be got on gardens/fields anywhere
This is not the case unfortunately.
Plenty of good advice above - I'd suggest buying a copy of this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Housebuilders-Bible-13-Mark-Brinkley/dp/1916016804/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
We found the costing guidelines pretty helpful to give us a ballpark idea of cost. We built our house 10 years ago - it took around 14 months (initially planned on it taking 12 months so only slightly over... Overran on estimated cost by approx 10% too!)
You will be faced with these three concerns:
1. Budget Control
2. Design Quality
3. Programme Adherence
Pick two of the above. You cannot have all three.
Also, expect things to go wrong. They will. Making a building is a hugely complex thing.
This is not the case unfortunately
Yes it is so don't talk bollox! Sweeping statement is sweeping everything before it!
It can also be refused admittedly but im happy to admit it goes both ways and if you actually are in the know you'd do the same!
I've in the past been involved in getting planning on a back garden for five houses, plans were re jigged and the final bidder at 500k when we sold built two houses on the fi laws plot which was his garden.
Green belt plot, trees, newts the works, we built nigh on 200k ft of prime industrial unit for storage, it will never get planning they said, erm yes it did.
I could be involved on another 1 million sq ft plot on green belt.
Don't be rash before purchase but don't be afraid to have a chat with the planners, little plot has just gone through the auction near us which was genuinely a field, I was sceptical re planning on this one, (damn) it fetched 150k and has now got plans in for 1 detached and a pair of semis in a proper lovely rural Derbyshire village and it was also outside the local plan.
Planning can go both ways, a friend of mine is a property developer and he normally gets things through, don't ask me how.
If it’s anything like round here (west Devon), it’s because the planning deptartmeny has been cut right back, they don’t have the resources to fight appeals so if you’ve got the funds to keep appealing it’ll go through eventually.
Re costings: the trick with any estimate is to make sure everything is covered at an appropriate level of detail.
E.g. fist estimate might be
Land = x per m2
Building = x per m2
Legalities = y
That's perfectly valid, and probably accurate if you use realistic figures (I.e. from a similar house in a similar area).
The reason grand designs are always massively over budget is because they pick wholly unrealistic figures to start with. If you want an architecturally different house and want it on an unusually site, then don't start with costings for a brick council house on an easy site, even if the figures do make it look appealing.
Do not trust architects.
Just for the design bits …
Not even the design bits, they appear to have a tenuous grasp on budgets at the best of times. Producing a design that is 50%-100% more expensive than the budget is not competent.
From watching grand designs and other property programs tv, I will most definitely be using the experts as much as I can. Pretty much every time they skimp on the costs and do it them selfs they make some mistakes and it ends up costing more and taking twice as long. Cutting costs is not really what I’m after more something bespoke and unique. So I think I’d be relying on experts to manage the project and keep it on track.
I wouldn't just hand things off to "experts" especially if eare going to be making statements like that, they'll assume that your budget is a soft one and that you are a walking pile of cash happy to double the budget for every little fitting and fixture until the costs and timescales are way over.
Grand designs is normally the rose-tinted 45 minute edit of the whole thing, more often than not 'Hugo and Jacinta' sit there at the end in their airy open plan dream house with stunning views casually mentioning "extra costs" that they absolutely had to have Kev asks about budget and time and ewe discover they "only" went over by £80k and 9 months... This seems to be the case weather they employ a PM/CM/Architect to manage the project or not.
"Bespoke and Unique" doesn't mean lobbing cash at it it means you engage with the project, understand what you want and how it is being delivered and be ready to accommodate the odd change/compromise where necessary but also push back when someone tries to persuade you that you need hand finished custom kitchen work surfaces for 5 times the price and triple the time delay when the Ikea stuff you originally agreed on will be fine...
Just remember everything is money, your money, labour costs, materials cost, then me costs.
Decide in detail what you want and stick to it. Changes cost big time.
If costs are critical then you need to employ a QS. Hardly any domestic clients will do that. In fact not many commercial clients do either!
Its not the Architects job to price the build up.
If costs are critical then you need to employ a QS.
C'mon now, no you don't.
Just be realistic and work through all the stages. It's always the finishes tgat kill the budget anyway. 25k for the kitchen the Mrs really really wants or 15k for one that is bang for buck!
Yes it is so don’t talk bollox! Sweeping statement is sweeping everything before it!
It can also be refused admittedly but im happy to admit it goes both ways and if you actually are in the know you’d do the same!
I’ve in the past been involved in getting planning on a back garden for five houses, plans were re jigged and the final bidder at 500k when we sold built two houses on the fi laws plot which was his garden.
Green belt plot, trees, newts the works, we built nigh on 200k ft of prime industrial unit for storage, it will never get planning they said, erm yes it did.
I could be involved on another 1 million sq ft plot on green belt.
LOL. It's not 'anywhere' though is it. Planning permission can be obtained, where a case can be made. Absolutely you can get pp for dwellings in a garden - but only in certain gardens where certain circumstances apply. The vast majority of planning consents get granted where there is existing policy that supports it. Some residential consents occur on un-allocated sites, e.g. where the council can't show a 5 year land supply, but even then it's not 'anywhere' it will be adjacent to the settlement boundary etc. I'm not trying to appear know-it-all but I'd suggest it's highly unlikely that your examples are Green Belt sites. Undeveloped land outside the settlement boundary maybe, but developing on actual designated Green Belt where there isn't a policy change to the boundary is a very high bar to pass.
Lots of people think that just because it’s a field outside the settlement limit then it’s green belt. In fact actual designated green belt land is not that common. In Bolsover where I live there is only a small area right in the north of the region that’s actually green belt.
No you're right, I made it up. I only started last week 🙄
So is it Green Belt then?
Should i really have to answer that? ^^
It would appear so!
Yes it was green belt, yes (on this subject anyway) I know what I'm talking about, yes I could be involved in further green belt construction, yes there's been a huge review of green belt thats just been poo pooed, yes in my borough there are huge areas of green belt (yes real green belt) starting with the ****ing fields behind my house!
Should i really have to answer that?
It would appear so!
Yes it was green belt, yes (on this subject anyway) I know what I'm talking about, yes I could be involved in further green belt construction, yes there's been a huge review of green belt thats just been poo pooed, yes in my borough there are huge areas of green belt (yes real green belt) starting with the ****ing fields behind my house!
🙂 good effort then. Not seen any industrial development releases from GB at application stage, as opposed to policy change.
I don't understand your reply, are you saying it didn't happen? If so we're ****ed! Do bear in mind I'm just a lowly builder type.
No, I’m saying good effort.
Aaahhh, well apologies for my moody response! I do sometimes get wound up on here with folk saying you've not done this that or the other. I've had no personal influence on the "Green belt" decision, someone as lowly as me doesn't cut it, however I've seen it in action and sometimes I can understand the reasoning to give it, others, mmm? But that may be the nimby in me but I know first and foremost it's what's kept me in work for the last 20 years.
Has anyone ever bought a plot of land and built a home on it?
Yes, bought a plot with planning permission, gave up work and K and I built the house ourselves.
Wondering how difficult this is from a getting planning permission and approvals and getting electricity, water etc installed pint of view.
How long is a piece of string? We avoided the planning permission question. First thing to understand is plot pricing as it relates to the rest of what you’ve asked..
Value of plot = (market value of house on site) - (cost of building house) - (developers profit)
It’s in the sellers interest to assume the market value is high, cost of building is low. A developer will (usually) cut corners, build in the cheapest way possible (cheap kitchen and bathroom, minimum spec to meet building regs).
If the plot doesn’t have planning permission then the value is much lower but should reflect the probability of getting it.
You can add value by a) getting planning permission for an unlikely site (though often the sale contract will specify you pay a % of the uplift to the seller), b) reapplying for planning permission for a bigger/more valuable house than planning was for. C) building it more cheaply than a builder/developer or doing a load of work yourself.
Service connections are unpredictable. We’re in a gap between other houses but the drain in the street is deep level so connection was expensive. Gas and Elect were right there so rate card cost (though a lot of £ for 5 days of parking bay suspensions). If its an isolated site services can be massive - 10’s of thousands. There was a Grand Dsign in Malvern where they supposedly thought the electricity was going to be simple as they were near other houses but ended up being 50k 300m trench down the road.
any good websites or books I should read to get an idea of what is involved?
Self Build handbook recommended above was by far the best thing we found. The various magazines will help with product selection (seeing what’s available/new). Green building forum a good discussion board though a pretty small active membership.
want it to be unique and maybe see if I can get better valve for money by building my self?
Unique costs money - the more off the shelf parts you use and the more conventional the build the more predicable the costs. Every “interesting” or “innovative” feature you or the architect add increases risk and cost.
On the upside...
You can build a house that's designed for you and the way you live with everything to your taste, and money spent where you think it matters - you *can* make it unique. There are loads of things about our house that a developer wouldn't have put in and I've never seen another house that I could just move into and not want to change anything.
It was a lot of hard work, incredibly stressful but also very satisfying.
Thank you all for the info, I'll have a read of that book and other links. Being a total newbie to this stuff it'll take a while for me to get up to speed but hopefully one day I'll be back with an update.
"You can build a house that’s designed for you and the way you live with everything to your taste, and money spent where you think it matters"
This is what I meant when I said unique, to me it is more about the architecture, layout and how I use the house rather than the finishing or construction methods used or fancy interior.
And it's good to hear there are stories of planning being granted where the common thinking says it won't happen. So while it could be hard getting planning permission it is not necessary impossible.
We bought a 2.25 acre plot in Scotland a year ago. We have got an architect who is doing the Full Service because we live a long way away and have zero experience or interest in project managing. After exactly one year we got planning permission and now our architect is finishing the full technical drawings for Building Warrant approval. We have just received the drainage and foundation plans from the engineer today. The house (like most Scottish homes) will be timber frame and we have identified a local timber frame manufacturer and a builder. Next week we are going up for three days for meetings with ventilation, electrical, plumbing engineers and to view kitchens and bathrooms. We anticipate the builder starting work on approach track, groundworks and drainage by late summer and the timber frame to be erected early next spring. If we can be in by Christmas 2020 it will be very nice indeed.
The site already has water and electricity and the villagers are installing their own 1gb fibre broadband in the glen.
It all takes a frustratingly long time. Others we have met reckon it took them three full years from buying the plot to moving in.
globali, thanks for sharing your house building journey. Is the time taken for you to build because there are a lot of things to arrange and to plan for and the level of detail required. Rather than you chose to build a massive huge building? So the time scale wouldn't change dramatically if you went for a slightly smaller or bigger building?
No the size of the building has absolutely no bearing on the timescale. What takes the time is for the architect and the engineer to do the drawings; we are not their only client and we understand that they have to juggle clients in such a way as to derive a steady income from the work. The value of having an experienced local architect who knows all the local people like planners, builders etc. has already shown itself to us so we are quite happy to go along with their timescale. A month or so between trips to Scotland and meetings gives everybody time to think. We are absolutely amazed that any amateur would ever consider a building project without Full Service from an architect or at least a professional project manager; we know so little and we don't have the time or the energy to read up and research it all.
We have already seen first draft plans by the timber frame constructor and we were blown away by the level of detail. Now that we are seeing the first layers of the building warrant drawings (rather than the initial concept sketches) we are equally blown away by the amount of thought, research and experience that has to go into the building.
Space and insulation are relatively cheap but obviously the size of the building does have a bearing on the cost. However what really drives costs up is fancy finishes, fittings, lots of detail and changes. At the start of the project the architect begged us: "Please decide what you like then stick with your convictions; changes and alterations add massively to the cost of a project because we have to go back and re-draw or even re-apply for planning or building warrant approval."
It all takes a frustratingly long time. Others we have met reckon it took them three full years from buying the plot to moving in.
I'd say that's quick! I think it took us about 4 years to move in.
Bought plot and re-applied for planning permission (wanted to change layout and some details). So a few months to work on revised planning designs with architect, then a few more for the planning permission (not helped by Lambeth's offices having a helicopter crash into them adding delay). Then started on detailed design and getting quotes for groundworks - basement excavation started on site about a year after plot purchased. Detailed design took a long time - changes to staff at the architect didn't help and it was about 2 years after purchase that the timber frame went up, then c18 months after that we moved in and another 6 months to finish.
Massive 8 room new build went up in no time over the road from me, I think the fact the owner was a recently retired planning officer at the local council was a factor!
We built the dream about 10 years ago and to be honest it was the best thing we've ever done. Our house took 9 months not 12 and came in £23k under our budget of £250k. We had no problems but that was down to meticulous planning and tight control over spending, we also did lots of shopping around for bathrooms, kitchen, floors and heating.So it can be done, if you have the right mindset.
Also there's nothing truer than Location Location Location to quote Kirsty.