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On friday driving home accelerated, no power, whoosh sound and whining when accelerating. Turbo pipe had some off afters eal had split.
Garage is now talking about the turbo going but not wanting to replace the turbo due to needing to do x/y/z as well involving a full flush of the engine (and there are bits that cannot be cleaned??
Engine management light has triggered the info - "anti pollution" fault
1.6 hdi 2008 berlingo 45k miles serviced when meant too
dont understand your post but
sounds about standard for a 1.6HDI
if its not had religeous oil changes the whole thing shits its self into the engine.
if the turbo has disintigrated then you really are looking at a thick bill.
also has technology moved on that much that people have forgotten to let turbos cool or at least get cooler oil into them before killing the engine. Used to be standard on turbod cars now i see them just being driven in and stopped - that wont help.
Turbo pipe had some off afters eal had spli
Is this from a Hungarian phrasebook?
Theres an issue with the oil feed to the turbo clogging. Replacement turbos and the associated work aren't warrenteed unless somethings done to rectify that oil feed
thatll be the small mesh filter that dealers frequently dont change as part of a service then am i right maccruiskeen.
my local specialist has nothing but praise for the hdi engine but did warn me of this flaw. I was toying with changing my DW8 1.9D for a turbo'd version and he said the 1.6 was the one to go for over the 2.0
He mentioned their love of doing this and the mesh filter that you need to change as well as religeously changing the oil.
thatll be the small mesh filter that dealers frequently dont change as part of a service then am i right maccruiskeen.
I think (relying on memory here) for the warrentee on the turbo it was a change of the item that has the mesh filter in (or whatever it is that clogs because the filter fails), rather than just the filter itself - in other words an upgraded component rather than a replacement.
Oh dear. That's the same as the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine ]Ford 1.6TDCi engine[/url]. Common problem.
I missed a service on mine (in a Focus C-Max), so the filter didn't get changed. 6 months later, the turbo blew up but wasn't warrantied due to missing the service, so I had to stump up £800 to replace it. All fine, until a year later, the engine developed curious noises which turned out to be swarf in the engine block, from the turbo. Engine trashed, Ford wanted [b]£5000[/b] for a new engine!!!!
With a bit of digging around, I discovered the Fraud garage hadn't followed the instructions correctly to fit the turbo and hadn't done enough oil changes to flush it through, or changed the mesh filter. After much batling, I threatened them with court action, they gave me a new car 🙂 (with the 2.0 engine).
Problem seems to be that in an effort to design a smaller engine, but still get high power, they've used a high pressure turbo that seems to be very delicate. I know of someone eles who's replaced the turbo 3 times, luckily all under warranty.
Aslong as yours is all serviced, it should be covered by warranty.
check and see if there have been any recalls .
peugeot are royal slags for doing "recalls" under servicing.
for example the front springs WILL snap on you , they did a rolling recall where they fitted retainers.
no letters were ever sent out they would just sneak them on at a service. which isnt any good if you use an independant specialist - luckily mines noticed i didnt have em - still dont , i just got him to fit new springs instead as it was a dodgy fix due to infearior coatings on their springs that causes the corrosion/snapping
same with the ECU software in my dw8. there has been an upgrade put out to stop the hunting you can occasionally get from the old software but is not an OFFICIAL recall just a rolling upgrade as they cal it.
So if i have a new turbo and the associated pipes and filter leading up to this it should be ok?
"I missed a service on mine (in a Focus C-Max), so the filter didn't get changed. 6 months later, the turbo blew up but wasn't warrantied due to missing the service, so I had to stump up £800 to replace it. All fine, until a year later, the engine developed curious noises which turned out to be swarf in the engine block, from the turbo. Engine trashed, Ford wanted £5000 for a new engine!!!!"
this is what your garage is trying to avoid its your risk.
I know my local garage doesn't like doing full engine flushes as it can apprently wreck the seal on the piston rings which are bedded in.
So when they fit the new turbo, they should replace the oil and filters, run it for about 15 minutes, then do another full oil and filter change, run it again, and I think do another change. I caught them as they only invoiced me for a single filter and single sump full of oil. No garage in the world gives away oil for free when they can charge for it!
But if its warrantied, you're not paying, but make sure you get to see the invoice and parts list anyway.
I had this go in a 407 estate of a similar vintage. New Turbo I am afraid 😀
serviced when meant too
When was the last service?
Main or Indie?
Be prepared to employ a independent engineer.
As above, if its main and the mesh wasn't done/isn't showing as being clean I'd threaten legal action.
IF its worse-worse case scenario then I'm sure within a few months we could locate a 1.6D (or even 2.0D) engine from a breakers for a fraction of that price.
3.0V6 engine , suspension and rear axels from a 406 are pretty much a drop in item 😉
Be prepared to employ a independent engineer.
But only if you know a good one. I got one in to check mine over and he was the vaguest, non-commital person I've ever dealt with.
we could locate a 1.6D (or even 2.0D) engine from a breakers for a fraction of that price
Thats what I tried to do. Quoted £500 for a 200-mile engine from a car that had been written off by the owners son. It was when I went to a local garage to ask about getting it fitted that I started talking it through and we established something was not right.
Had one 5 year old,turbo fins disintergrated into engine the bill started at £1000 went to £1800 and still had oil light on and they would'nt say the new turbo would last they changed oil pump flushed out, changed banjo bolts alsorts. Before having work done think very hard.
Plug it into an OBD2 reader and find out exactly what codes it has thrown up and take it from there.
That 1.6 engine is a nightmare, check that it has not developed an injector leak (for some reason usually injector 3 goes first, then the others) as that sludges the oil leading to filter blockage and then a dead turbo.
Fraud have a long winded maintenance instruction regarding turbo replacement, oil and filter changes (3 off) and turbo feed oil flow rate.
Anyone got a diagram of the turbo filter, I have had mine for 3 years and never changed it car is at 90,000.
I've got a copy of the turbo-replacement instructions.
It starts with:
Should a customer experiences a loss of power and by following the relevant workshop manual procedure on FordEtis you find a failed turbocharger as the root cause with clear damage to the turbocharger (turbine/compressor wheels damaged or turbo shaft broken), the following procedure needs to be carried out to prevent reoccurrence of the failure.
CAUTION: It is important to complete each step of this service instruction as directed.
Failure to do so may result in misdiagnosis and failure to address the customers concern.
Email me if you want a copy.
Im a tech for citroen , you need to remove the turbo plastic pipe so you can see the impeller if you can wiggle it , it's f##ked , you will need to replace the turbo THE OIL PUMP FEED FILTER , the turbo feed and return pipes and don't buy a ****y e bay turbo , only use fully synth oil and flush it x2 . It has been caused by lack of servicing or poor servicing the main one being changing the oil when not fully warmed up and using poor oil . Message me if you need any other info .
20 years at citroen for my sins !!!
Just liberated it from the garage to seek a second opinion at a mate of a mate. Driven it and no white or black smoke, no fault codes, no extra noise bar the quiet whine on acceleration, just no boost.
If it is the turbo and you keep driving it the impeller nut will come off and be sucked into the engine !!! Be warned !!!
Agree. Im NO expert but keep driving a car with an issue coild definitely worsen the problem.
Driving it is a bad idea
Chris - are hdi turbos different from others ? In that all turbos ive worked on have had play at the shaft due to them being floating on a thin layer of oil - old garrett t2 and t25
Im sure you know if this is te case but so rob doesnt feel slight play at the shaft and think thats his issue
Trail rat , yes it will have very very slight play but due to the depth you have to use a single finger to feel for play , and TBA it's very hard to feel any play at all in a good unit , if you use a torch and a mirror you will also see scuffs from the impeller marking the turbo body . If you use the torch / mirror method and the thread and no nut is visible your last chance is its stuck in the oil in the bottom of the inter cooler .
Most of the problems I've experienced with the 1.6HDI engine are related to the Peugeot it is usually attached to...
it not a pug!
same engine: peugeot/citroen/ford/mazda
oh sh*t im scared reading this wifes 1.6tdci is making noises... 56reg only 48k
we are thinking of getting shot of it and getting a 1.6 petrol c-max (need a bigger car)
just read this from the handy link above (thanks)
The engine must be run with a lowSAP oil because of the nature of the particulate filter and exhaust gas recirculation valve.
what the funk is lowSAP oil, i was going to change the oil and use halfords 5-30 ford semi synthetic?
Quick google reveals:
The chemical composition of the lubricants contains,
among other things, Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and
Sulphur, which provide the following properties: antiwear,
antioxidant, detergent, etc.
I reckon it cuases less ash in the burn. same reason ITs recomended to use high quality fuel, not supermarket specials, to get a clean burn. Less particulates in the exhaust, less crap in the turbo, less to bung it up.
Of course, they could design an engine that didn't rely on the turbo being immaculate, to cope with a real-world situation. Like every other car manufacturer does...
pretty much everything you need to know
Which manufacturers are those then irbandito ?
Well, Ford themselves in the 2.0TDCi engine.
based on what is that then ?
http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/goodbad.aspx
ill take dieselbobs endorsement over anything ANYONE on this forum can tell me.
the man from diesel bob he hates all ford TDCI engines it seems.
the man from diesel bob he hates all ford TDCI engines it seems.
I wouldn't go near one, TBH. Or a VAG diesel. Or anything French.
If I get another diesel it'll probably be Italian to be honest (same engine that Vauxhall use)
i would have an XUD or DW8 french engine - ie PRE hdi - currently got 1 of them
ive got a 2.2 DTI currently.
and yes id buy a JTD engine in a fiat over a fordie
tbh my next decent car i buy will be of decent displacement and auto i think.
[i]"different people on the internet have different experiences and opinions"[/i] shocker.
All I'm saying is the 1.6TDCi/HDi is notoriously delicate, that's a given (google it). In my experience the 2.0TDCi isn't.
I have it on record from the regional Ford Service manager that the 1.6 is a shocking engine, he could quite understand why I wanted a different engine in the replacement car. It took 6 months of hard work investigating the cause of the problems in an effort to save me £5000. Funnily enough Ford customer services weren't to happy with me.
If I'd had my choice, I'd have replaced the car with something non-Ford, but by that point, it was the easiest solution. I've been driving the 2.0 replacement for a few years now and have had absolutly no problems from the engine at all.
Edit: From Dieselbob:
1.6 TDCI FORD FUSION / PEUGEOT / CITREON 1.6 HDI
Annoying fault of injector seal leakage
Horrendous fault of turbo charger self destruction
The Toyota 2.0L D4D is a good reliable lump
No DPF, No cam belt
Looking at a new turbo, feed pipe, fitting etc - £8-900. 12 month warranty on the turbo though so not all that bad.
It does look like i will be chopping it in though.
BAD DIESELS
FORD TDCI
Focus 1.8 TDCI (2001 to 2006)
Mondeo 2.0 & 2.2 TDCI (2001 to 2007)
Transit 2.0 & 2.2 TDCI (2004 to 2007)
Oh dear!
Apart from the problems of:
Injector failure,
Fuel pump failure,
Cam chain jumping,
Dual mass flywheel collapse,
Wiring faults,
ECU problems.
A pretty good engine (ermm!)
miss that bit right at the top about the 2.0?
my dads transits been a complete ball bag of an engine.
and yes of course youll find a problem with every engine - but some are more notorious than others.
for example my 19j 2.5 TD - horrific engine with a reputation for blowing up(piston rings) at about 80k. im on borrowed time at 125k now !
miss that bit right at the top about the 2.0?
Nope, I saw it. I'm just saying mine is trouble-free (as no doubt thousands of 1.6s are) And as I said, I wouldn't have had it if I had more choice, but it was either that, or write £5000 off.
@ rob jackson, just make sure the invoice matches the parts list:
[i]
[b]Parts Required[/b]
Turbocharger - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 523 337 1
Turbocharger - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 479 055 1
Oil supply tube - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 479 840 1
Oil supply tube - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 479 839 1
Oil return line - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (90 PS) 1 483 832 1
Oil return line - 1.6L Duratorq-TDCi (DV) diesel (110 PS) 1 483 831 1
Turbocharger oil feed pipe banjo bolt with filter 1 450 265 2
Oil supply tube union copper washer 1 232 215 6
Oil filter 1 359 941 2
Oil filter gasket 1 145 944 1
Oil pick up tube (including oil pick up tube retaining bolts (3 off)) 1 483 825 1
Seal vacuum pump 1 355 031 2
Catalytic converter to turbocharger clamp 1 474 828 2
Exhaust gasket 1 152 194 -
Gasket oil cooler and filter assembly 1 145 946 1
Turbocharger outlet pipe (If Required) 1 439 410 1[/i]
Hope my 1.6 D2 Volvo V70 fairs better.
look after it and itll do you for many more.
lax servicing and driving like a granny all the time/thrashing from cold all the time is what kills most engines ime.
It does look like i will be chopping it in though.
Chop it in in 11months time. Its got a guarantee for 12months so why sell now. Don't begrudge the whole car because one part failed.
I'm feeling lucky today so going to say 1.6hdi 59 plate Berlingo which has now been thrashed for 70k miles with only routine services and 1 broken central locking switch....
Bet it now goes bang on the M40 tonight... if you notice a red Berlingo on the hard shoulder give me a wave 🙂
Different version of a similar engine, the 130PS Mondeo TDCi. Turbo went and thew itself everywhere. Had the turbo replaced as cheaply as possible (still 900 quid), then soon after start getting engine management lights.
Fraud to their credit made them go away and it ran smoothly for a couple of months, but I was always sceptical as to whether bits ended up where they shouldn't. Consequently I made it someone else's problem before it could give me any more trouble.
Moral of the story - make sure it's done properly if you get the turbo replaced, or it really could end up being a new engine.
http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/technical/diagnostics/turbocharger-failure/
Here is some good reading
There is a great case study link on this page.
Interesting reading that
The DV6 isn't any more fragile than Ny other diesel, it's just there are SO many in circulation that you hear of more failures than you would - perpetuated by the fact they are used in Ford's, Peugeots and Citroens and so are apparently crap by default...
We had one on a Testbed for a year running ridiculous levels of EGR for sustained periods of time and had no issues at all. Ditto with stressing it in any other way on Testbed or car. Not denying there are some issues with it, but it is still a very very good engine.
This week a STWer who works at Citroen praised the engine but added they do need oil mesh doing. Do use a indie for services normally Rob?
I still wouldnt get rid. You have 12months warranty on it.
Toyota D4D 2.0 you say? Yes the cam chain / no DPF seemed a good choice at the time.
Known problem with carbon build up on pistons, leading to head gasket failure. To Toyos credit, covered under goodwill to 108K miles. My engine (57 plate Avensis) was replaced with factory rebuilt engine at 63K. Cost me nowt.
£922 fitted and a 12 month warranty on the turbo, how does that sound?
price not important.
is he doing the work specified above.
can be 100 quid , if hes not following the proceedure you might as well burn your money.
I paid about £800 + labour IIRC for a new turbo.
he says that the 12 month guarantee only comes into play because he is doing the required work so i hope so
get it all in writing then and fire on.
£922 inc VAT? With the written guarantee on turbo AND labour to repair if it goes in 12months? After all he should be warrantying him putting it in there to make sure its fitted right. i.e. guarantee his workmanship.
Will mention that
Do you trust him and why are you using them rather than anyone else? Main dealer? Indy specialist?
He is a mate of a very good friend so comes recommended. garage at Crosspool
Be careful of non gen turbos , not the quality of the rebuild or the unit , BUT when you try and claim they will ask for invoices , detailed with parts and labour for oil changes at 500/1500/3000 miles !!! And I've never had a customer make a successful claim !!! They always end up having to buy another .
The warranty lies with the garage doesn't it?
chrisdiesel could you please email me robjackson@hotmail.co.uk
FORD TDCI
Focus 1.8 TDCI (2001 to 2006)
@Trailrat - How come? I thought the 1.8 had a belt and the 2.0 was a chain? Interested as I'm looking at Focus' at the moment
I wouldn't go near one, TBH. Or a VAG diesel. Or anything French.
@PeterPoddy - How come? I'd disagree with VAG and French but perhaps been lucky. My Dad did over 150k in his with no engine issues. I did 100k on my 306 taking it over 180k and it's still being driven today. Everything else wears but the engines were solid
older PD vag cars were good , the 1.9 models but the newer ones aint so good
tdci
Injector failure,
Fuel pump failure,
Cam chain jumping,
Dual mass flywheel collapse,
Wiring faults,
ECU problems.
id imagine if you have a belt in the 1.8 you just take out the cam chain jumping.....
i love the older french cars - your 306 undoubtedly had the XUD TD engine - its an engine of legends .... modern HDi - id rather have a petrol.
Quote. On friday driving home accelerated, no power, whoosh sound and whining when accelerating. Turbo pipe had some off afters eal had split.
Garage is now talking about the turbo going but not wanting to replace the turbo due to needing to do x/y/z as well involving a full flush of the engine (and there are bits that cannot be cleaned??
Engine management light has triggered the info - "anti pollution" fault
1.6 hdi 2008 berlingo 45k miles serviced when meant too. Quote
Same thing happened to me, simply get rid of it, there will be carbon problems and water in there somewhere, thats proberly knacked the turdo, sell it quick before it cost you a fortune.
your 306 undoubtedly had the XUD TD engine - its an engine of legends
I had a 306 1.8 petrol. It did not move once in two years sat on the drive. Charged the battery and.....it started first time 😆
It was the XUD engine yes. Out of interest if the VAG diesels have these issues what about the diesel Skoda Octavia?
Have you checked its not just a split in the intercooler pipe dumping the boost from the turbo into the engine bay. Mine split on my Mondy 2.0 tdci pre frenchy engine and it had no boost at all, changed pipe 40 quid from ford all is now well.
yes - 2 garages have stated that the turbo is starved of oil and worn out
Hi, I've got a Berlingo 1.6hdi 57 plate, I've changed the turbo x 2, bango bolts and oil pickup done a couple of engine flushes and oil/filter changes, was going ok until I heard two short squeals and then lots of blue smoke and loss of power when I turned off the engine it continued to run for about 20 seconds there is no oil in rad topup.
I've previously changed EGR and cooler plus air intake valve.