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Does anyone here think OP is going to declare this come renewal time?
As mentioned before, I've checked, it's not a claim. I've just checked the policy wording on my insurance proposal form for my car and the wording states "accidents or incidents that are likely to lead to a claim"
Unless the perp of this whole incident is suddenly going to claim off our policy, then no is the answer, no need to inform.
Update: Text from other party to say £500 being paid into my account in the next hour.
Obviously an old account that never gets used.
Utter rubbish. You are just playing semantics to suit your narrative. You’ll be just as bad as the guy that hit you when you commit fraud at renewal time.
There’s NO law that stated we have to claim off insurance.
That's completely true. It's not about claiming, it's about telling the insurer. It's a basic principle of insurance contracts that they are 'Uberrima fides', ie, ultra good faith, which means that anything that might be relevant to the risk must be declared. Some insurers expect it at the time, others at renewal. It's not statutory law but it is case law (see link above) and even if the insurer hasn't told you you must report anything, it still applies. So you either report it at renewal, and they may or may not adjust your premium, or you risk being uninsured if they find out.
If you're confident that the event doesn't affect the risk, there's no problem telling the insurer. On the basis that you're quite keen not to tell them, I guess you expect that they will think it does. They are experts in assessing risk and have lots of claims data to back up their judgment, so they are probably right.
You need to inform them whether claiming or not as it changes your risk. What are you trying to hide from them?
About £700 in premiums according to an earlier post…
Utter rubbish. You are just playing semantics to suit your narrative. You’ll be just as bad as the guy that hit you when you commit fraud at renewal time.
Ok Mr pedantic, if that's what you want to believe then you crack on...
It doesn’t matter what I believe, see Greybeard’s post from a few minutes ago.
LMAO! Who said we can’t afford it?
Having a £50k car and faffing over a couple of hundred quid on the insurance for said car do not go hand in hand.
If we claim AND we lose two years NCD then that policy next year will be well over £1600
Do you know that you'll lose your NCB? A quick google shows that it's usually not the case.
Because of the business use we can’t get competitive quotes from usual sources.
But you can obviously put the insurance premium through as a business expense.
that policy next year will be well over £1600
Which brings me back to my original point - expensive cars are expensive to insure.
It's not really a surprise and should be planned for. TBH it's probably the first thing I look at when considering a car purchase.
(and £1600 isn't really that wild in terms of premiums - a new driver of a 1.0L fiesta will pay well over £1200. But if you've not got kids and have been protected by driving a business-supplied vehicle for this long then it may come as a shock)
You need to inform them whether claiming or not as it changes your risk. What are you trying to hide from them?
How does repairing a bumper change the risk?
Please enlighten me? The car was declared at doing 15k a year and it's done 5k a year, so if anything we're now LESS likely to have a claim.
The car was parked in a public car park, is the policy going to shoot up because we didn't inform the insurance company that we dared to park in a public car park?
Clutching at straws there really, but hey, anything to keep an argument alive.
I don't understand how you can't inform your insurer as you have already contacted the police about the accident. In the unlikely event you have a serious claim in the future, it could lead to you having invalid insurance which does have serious consequences.
In the past I have checked and insurers do view damage to a car while parked as an accident.
How does repairing a bumper change the risk?
Depends on the circumstances of where you parked, how you were parked and other conditions. You inform them they make a decision on whether it is or not.
Please enlighten me? The car was declared at doing 15k a year and it’s done 5k a year, so if anything we’re now LESS likely to have a claim.
I bet you tell them that next time though.
The car was declared at doing 15k a year and it’s done 5k a year
Do tell the insurer, and they might reduce the premium
is the policy going to shoot up because we didn’t inform the insurance company that we dared to park in a public car park
No, but it might (or might not) change because the car parks you use are frequented by careless uninsured drivers. They may already be aware and have costed the risk into the premium, they may not.
anything to keep an argument alive
You asked a question. People are trying to tell you the answer. If you're determined not to listen, I'm out.
Do you know that you’ll lose your NCB?
Because it's happened to me before when I got knocked off my motorbike by a taxi, as there was no witnesses I had to claim from my own policy and lost two years NCD.
Having a £50k car and faffing over a couple of hundred quid on the insurance for said car do not go hand in hand.
But it's not faffing over a couple of hundred quid it could be thousands by the time we've had to spend another two years paying increased premiums to get back to the level we are now, for the sake of a £500 repair.
But you can obviously put the insurance premium through as a business expense.
Nope. We're both PAYE.
(and £1600 isn’t really that wild in terms of premiums – a new driver of a 1.0L fiesta will pay well over £1200. But if you’ve not got kids and have been protected by driving a business-supplied vehicle for this long then it may come as a shock)
We're both nearly 50, got 30 + years of driving behind us and are both building up no claims from driving company cars. We know exactly what the situation with insurance was. This was all calculated in and if the Mrs had stuffed the car into a lamp post then it would be going through the insurance and we'd have to take the pain on the chin.
it wasn't, it was caused by a shitbag who damaged the car and run and did a little bit of damage that isn't worth the risk of an increased claim.
Is that really so Fkn hard for people to get their heads around?
You asked a question. People are trying to tell you the answer. If you’re determined not to listen, I’m out.
I'm listening, however, I'm not going to listen to people telling me cos the wife has a £50k we should just 'suck it up' or saying I have to declare it at renewal when we've had it confirmed we don't, by our own insurer.
with 5 years NCD (not protected) the policy costs £900 a year. If we claim AND we lose two years NCD then that policy next year will be well over £1600,
Why isn't your NCD protected? My son has 2 years NCD as a named driver on my policy and has been able to protect his NCD on his first year of insurance.
One claim looses one year of NCD, not two.
it wasn’t, it was caused by a shitbag who damaged the car and run and did a little bit of damage that isn’t worth the risk of an increased claim.
I agree to a certain extent, however 'life isn't fair' springs to mind.
You have some understanding from me, because:
A decade ago mrs_OAB parked our car in a layby on a high street in a small Highland village, outside the primary school.
One of our neighbours, a 94 year old, misjudged and hit our car at 30 mph. It tore off the front wheel and significant bodywork damage. His car was barely driveable, yet he drove home leaving our car damaged and no note.
It transpired that he also wasn't insured (he forgot to renew a few weeks earlier), and he seemed medically incapable of driving (this was his third bump in a year).
His daughter and other villagers tried to persuade us to go quietly and softly with cash in hand to fix our car.
Our view was a) he/his missing insurance should pay to fix our car. and b) he was a danger on the road.
Like you we had to push the police hard to get a response - thankfully a visit to Stirling main police station and asking to speak to someone in person got a response. He was visited by local PC and it was enough for him to decide to give up driving.
We went through our insurer - we got warrantied repairs, hire car for our holiday the week after, and they also had information on their insurance database about him not being insured. It cost one year of NCD - well worth it for smooth repair of our car, proper repair and more.
The issue here is not the repair - the issue is that you have had an incident. @Greybeard has it right - it is declarable as the insurer has to make a risk judgement based on you / the car model you own / the area you live in / the rate of uninsured drivers in your area etc. To not declare this to the insurer risks you not being covered in future and a less than ideal/un-warrantied repair on your car. If you are comfortable with that risk, go ahead.
Just realised we’re 3 pages in and no one’s asked for pics. Standards are slipping.
But it’s not faffing over a couple of hundred quid it could be thousands by the time we’ve had to spend another two years paying increased premiums to get back to the level we are now
Which is just 'life' I'm afraid.
Again, expensive cars are expensive - get on with it.
You say that your insurance Co say you don't need to report an accident (which it clearly is) - yet you've still not said which Insurance Co this is - this lack of clarity is thought-provoking.
Lots of people have told you what you 'should' be doing - hope it all works out as it should.
edit: anything that can put a 4" split in a bumper is not "a little bit of damage"
Just realised we’re 3 pages in and no one’s asked for pics. Standards are slipping
Are you suggesting it might just be a sticker?
OP - probably best to walk away from this thread now.
As mentioned before, I’ve checked, it’s not a claim. I’ve just checked the policy wording on my insurance proposal form for my car and the wording states “accidents or incidents that are likely to lead to a claim”
So £500 worth of repairs aren't an "incident likely to lead to a claim"? Weird.
The fact that you're doing it outside the insurance doesn't stop it being an "incident likely to lead to a claim", just means you're not claiming.
I've been here before (well, my brother has).
Cost him a whole ****ing shit load more in the long run (several thousands). As he'd omitted something that would have impacted his premium. So he got refused for insurance.
But it’s not faffing over a couple of hundred quid it could be thousands by the time we’ve had to spend another two years paying increased premiums to get back to the level we are now, for the sake of a £500 repair.
This is fair but you've contacted the police! So there is now a record of your accident you can't dispute. If you'd not contacted the police, it would be a different story, and your insurer would have no idea you'd had the car repaired.
'That could lead to a claim' is pretty clear. The claim doesn't have to be from you.
I know two people who have had minor bumps (one their fault, one not) not declared the incident, then at renewal time it has become apparent that the other party has reported the incident and it is recorded on whatever the central DB is.
If you have an accident causing damage or injury you must give the following to anyone with ‘reasonable grounds for requiring them’, for example an insurance company:
*snip*
You must also report the accident to your insurance company, even if you’re not planning to make a claim.
From gov.uk here: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-insurance/if-youre-in-an-accident
How minor does damage have to be that it need not be declared? My car has some bumper scrapes caused by others on my road but I wouldn't consider declaring it. I have no intention of getting minor cosmetic damage repaired. Does this mean I'm acting in bad faith?
The thing that OP seems to be missing is that renewal quotes can go up after an accident for two reasons:
1) You might lose your NCD. IIRC, typically 2yrs would give 20% off. So that's an immediate +20% *
2) Your risk profile has changed. You are now, in the insurer's eyes, in a different category - people who get into scrapes. Your premium may be adjusted (upwards) to account for this.
Depending on the amount of NCD and your profile, the accident in question etc, 2) can have a much bigger effect on your premium than simply losing a small NCD. Failing to declare an accident means the insurer can't adjust for 2) and is therefore technically fraudulent, whether you claim or not. I suspect very few people would lose sleep over that, although they might keep schtum about it on public forums.
Because it’s happened to me before when I got knocked off my motorbike by a taxi, as there was no witnesses I had to claim from my own policy and lost two years NCD.
Ah, this is the crux of the matter, isn't it. You're conflating claiming against your own policy with having your insurers handle a claim on your behalf.
In your bike scenario there wasn't an identifiable third party to claim against so it's considered an own-fault incident and will indeed affect your NCD / future premiums because it's your insurer who will pay out. Which is bullshit but here we are.
In your wife's situation there is a known third party to claim against, so your insurance company will pursue his insurers (or the MIB if he is uninsured). As a non-fault incident her insurer won't be paying out, therefore it shouldn't affect NCD and any renewal hikes will be negligible.
You're comparing apples with oranges.
Some people seem to need to make things overly complicated. Just let your insurer deal with it, it's what you pay them for. You'll have to pay your excess initially but as you've got witnesses to identify who caused the damage your insurer will want to recover their costs. Once they'd done that your excess will be refunded and ncb reinstated.
That’s completely true. It’s not about claiming, it’s about telling the insurer. It’s a basic principle of insurance contracts that they are ‘Uberrima fides‘, ie, ultra good faith, which means that anything that might be relevant to the risk must be declared. Some insurers expect it at the time, others at renewal. It’s not statutory law but it is case law (see link above) and even if the insurer hasn’t told you you must report anything, it still applies. So you either report it at renewal, and they may or may not adjust your premium, or you risk being uninsured if they find out.
Erm, not quite. It is governed by statute.
Consumer Insurance Disclosure & Representations Act 2012.
A consumer customer must take reasonable care to answer insurer's questions fully and accurately. There's no Utmost Good Faith in consumer world any more.
OP still needs to declare it though!
I had someone drive into my parked car overnight. I claimed and my insurance premium went up.
OP I think you are right to avoid telling the insurance company if possible. If some kittens die because you don't declare the incident next renewal time then so be it.
I had someone drive into my parked car overnight. I claimed and my insurance premium went up.
... because with no-one to claim against it's classed as an own-fault accident.
Just realised we’re 3 pages in and no one’s asked for pics. Standards are slipping.
To be fair, the OP is arguing the toss over and over again about a few hundred quid. He could do without having to buy a new strimmer, weed the drive and have the brickwork repointed too.
Cost him a whole ****ing shit load more in the long run (several thousands). As he’d omitted something that would have impacted his premium. So he got refused for insurance.
Late to this, but then you'll also be in the 'ever been refused insurance' declaration bracket too.
Surely insurance co's will have/use access to MIB, and therefore know OP's car has been involved in an incident.
If there comes a time when a "proper" claim is made, it may be refused for non declaration.
Not a risk I'd be willing to take
Just realised we’re 3 pages in and no one’s asked for pics. Standards are slipping.
Indeed, and not even an insulting derogatory meme from Cougar.
I'm offended.
I hardly ever post memes.
I'd argue memes post themselves...