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So, I like F&B paint and I think it looks better on the wall than other paints, even if they are colour matched.
However practically every painter and decorator says “it’s no better than many other paints”, “all comes from the same factory” etc etc and they have convinced Mrs OS that this is the case. I remain sceptical.
Now I’m not asking if people think it’s worth the cost of it compared to other paints - I actually want to know if it’s any different and if so what the difference is. Anyone in the trade care to elaborate???
Recently worked on a job where they had either Farrow and Ball or Little Green Paint Company on the walls.
Was a right PITA because each time I touched the walls I left a handprint. It's quite difficult when fitting things to walls not to touch them.
The paint had been on the walls for over a month, so it was dry. It was also matt, so maybe that played a part.
Stupidly expensive stuff with truly ****y names.
If it were me I wouldn't bother with the stuff. Even the painter scoffed at it.
No experience of F&B, but we used quite a lot of Little Green in our old hovel, and i genuinely believe it is worth it. It's not just about the colour, it's the depth of it and the amount of sheen. I'm really not a fan of shiny paint, and the LG is so matt and rich, and with that comes a real depth to the colour. In our room we have some lights with slightly iridescent glass shades. It's been painted with three different paints in the time we've been there, and only with the most recent redecorating with LG do you notice the variations in light that the shades cast on it. It's really lovely.
It's one of those things where doing it 'just because' is daft. If it's just the colour you're after, get it matched, but this Aldi shopper thinks it's one of the things it was worth spending money on. It's ****ing expensive now though. And yeah, it marks very, very easily.
I worked for six months for Permoglaze in quality control. The expensive things in the paints were the pigments and the resins. Paints with a lot of expensive pigment and high quality resins cost more to make and were billed more. The industrial customers had standards to meet (covering power, hardness, UV resistance etc. ) so the lab put a lot of effort into reaching that standard at the lowest cost. A a general rule paints that cover well and wear well cost more to make so expect to pay more.
Then there's marketing. The marketeers task is to add value without necessarily adding quality. Some expensive paint is expensive to make so good, some is well hyped and you pay more for a not necessarily better product.
So you pays your money and takes your pick. Personally I don't buy the cheapest or even cheap but don't buy the big names either. The more expensive own brand/little know brand stuff from the likes of B&Q is fine.
Seriously, nobody cares about your walls or what paint is on them except you. So use whatever makes you happy when you gaze lovingly at them.
ok so not F&B, but mid range paint is better than the cheapest - the cheapest was 3 coats to cover a wall, the mid range was only 1 coat so it was a lot quicker and as cost effective to buy the mid range paint
I haven't used F&B but I did use a fancy paint (Emery & Cie) for one of our rooms and the difference is amazing. It goes on much nicer and there is more depth to the colour. I use nice paint in the other rooms but this is way different. It's far too expensive to use on the whole house but yes it is a step up.
Just use Johnstone’s Trade - they will colour match and it will be a billion times better than your fancy brand name crap.
Wasn't impressed with the durability of F&B . Just get the local shop to tint Sadolin to F&B shade as required.
My ex-wife insisted on doing our old house in F&B.
Not impressed, cost a fortune and just wasn't very good, especially on older plaster. Took a million coats to get decent coverage and somehow seemed to soak into the walls and you'd end up with lots of tiny cracks in it. I'm doing my new house in bog standard Dulux and it's much better
To be fair to F&B their wood paints are actually OK, and I like the finish, so I'm using that again.
I always think the fact that F&B have High St shops tells you something about what they're charging you 😊
However, they have a tendency to lead while others have followed and copied.
My other half has drunk the Kool aid well and truly but I'm unfortunately not convinced that the paint actually performs better than other stuff.
I've sprayed furniture with it in the past and hand painted too but never thought it seemed that durable.
I do however respect them for innovation and really just nailing their market.
F&b quality went down some years back. Little green good. Mylands paint is excellent.
Used F&B for about 20 years and would have said it was worth it. Then we had some work done a few years ago they used Tikkurila colour matched to F&B colours. The colour is a smidge less good but it is way more hard wearing. It's quite expensive though. Since then I started using what they recommended in the decorating shop down the road. I recoated my front door in Zinsser, but the frame in F&B (as there was some left). The door is still looking good but the frame is already faded and starting to flake. So I now use F&B colour charts and whatever paint the shop says.
As Ed said, the better paint has more pigment so covers better and gives a deeper colour. Back when I was a decorators apprentice we would use Dulux Trade if the customer wanted to pay for it or Leyland Trade if they didn't. The chap I worked for was highly skilled and had a superb reputation so knew his stuff. We never one coated and he would not use the one coat paint as it was basically just a thicker consistency and didn't go on properly leading to a poor finish.
I've been told by other decorator mates that F&B is nothing special though. Basically, buy your paint from where the professionals do, not from a high street shop.
Farrow and ball is supposed to be easy marking isn't it? To convey a sense of age and quality through patina.
Even if the areas around the light switches do end up looking like the bog wall in trainspotting.
If you are sensitive to the qualities the paint gives visually then get F&B, Little Green, Edward Bulmer etc,. and if you are not (i.e. most painters) then just get whatever goes on the best.
Colour matched Johnson's is NOT the same as the actual same coloured paint from say Little Green. If you can't tell the difference then lucky for you I guess as you can save some money.
I'd echo what others have said above - perhaps it's not the most hard-wearing or best quality (depending on your definition of quality) if you simply want to paint a wall, but the colour and 'feel' is much nicer.
Yes you can get an exact colour match in a cheaper paint, but the F&B will have subtle depth to it and change depending on the lighting etc more than the cheaper alternative, which might seem a bit flat in comparison. I prefer it in most cases, but agree that much of the high price is marketing and there's probably other brands that are similar, I just haven't tried them. IMO, do the main living room in F&B or something, and the rest of the house in something else.
practically every painter and decorator says “it’s no better than many other paints”, “all comes from the same factory” etc etc
Just because things come out of the same factory doesn't mean that every line in that factory produces to the same quality, or indeed that the raw materials and QC don't change for different customers. I used to work in the food industry where it's common for a single factory to produce a wide variety of versions of the same foodstuff for different customers. Then there are the places that only have one recipe and the difference is all in the packaging - butter or marzipan spring to mind. The expertise is knowing what they actually do inside the factory.
I seem to remember that Bianchi bikes used to be made in a pram factory. That doesn't mean that Bianchis were prams. 😀
Cheap paint is certainly a false economy and a waste of your own time. F&B is decent but nothing special so it is maybe just a matter of finding the mid brand that works for you.
We have an old house so tried to go down the breathable route. I have to say Earthborn Clay paints are the best I have found from an application pov. No smell and just go on nicely
We painted out kitchen in thatstuff that b&q sell. Took loads of coats. It's held up well for 10 years.
The rest of the house was painted in Johnstone's paint from the paint shed we just took in the wee paper swatches from b&q. Johnstones has been durable and it's cheap enough I wasn't too fussed at the mark as my then 5 ½ year old skidded his Christmas bikes front tyre down the hall wall.
Just to throw in a random benefit, dulux paint guarantee applies to- I dunno,maybe not all their paints but it does apply to the trade matt. Covers coverage problems, general dissatisfaction with the paint but most importantly colour. No substitute for being able to make a brave colour choice, realise you are a fool then replace it for free. OR, if you are perhaps a little bit of a thief, get your paint, paint one wall, tell dulux you don't like it then get a voucher for another colour and paint something else for free. And t's perfectly decent paint, if a little pricy.
(aside but if I was literally any paint manufacturer I'd just add "trade" to all of my products. Everyone on the internet knows trade paint is better)
PS after all that I am painting a room just now with the £1.30 a litre stuff from Screwfix. Barely more expensive than diet coke and covers slightly better.
Everyone on the internet knows trade paint is better
But it really is! I upgraded from DIY store bought paint to Dulux Decorating Centre trade paints for a couple of rooms a couple of months back and the difference was incredible. Never going back - I value my time too much not to justify the extra cast.
But.....there is are so many trade paints in the in the Dulux Trade range - all better for different conditions. Dulux has their 'Heritage' range of consumer paints which is I assume for people who fancy F&B but can't quite handle to cost.
Colour matched Johnson's is NOT the same as the actual same coloured paint from say Little Green. If you can't tell the difference then lucky for you I guess as you can save some money.
It won't be, it was always behind Dulux and Leyland for quality and priced accordingly. The rule of thumb with the established brands that the pro's use is the better it is, the more it costs. The problem with F&B (and possibly others?) is they were pitched as premium without any real evidence.
I bought two tins of Johnstone's recently and the bloody stuff was two totally different shades. Never again.
Johnstones Trade Perfect Matt is very good if you want no sheen. Particularly good for walls with imperfections.
As a few have said though, it's a premium paint so it's not cheap (approx same price as F&B). Looking at trade feedback I suspect it's quite a bit better, but I've not used either enough to compare.
In contrast to the above, we had to go back and get a second tin and colour match to our first was spot on.
It won't be, it was always behind Dulux and Leyland for quality and priced accordingly.
Johnsons was just an example. The point is there is more to paint that just the colour and while colour matched Dulux may look the same colour the finish and effect will not be the same. Again, this may not matter or even be noticeable to some people while to others it is.
Unless you have compared every brand's colour matched paint I'm afraid you can't prove that.
Take a look at little Greene remix range, it's about half the price. I've painted our whole house in it.
We have an old house so tried to go down the breathable route. I have to say Earthborn Clay paints are the best I have found from an application pov. No smell and just go on nicely
+1 for Earthborn if you have lime plaster (or just like the paint), it's really nice.
Costs an arm and a leg, mind you.
The marketeers task is to add value without necessarily adding quality
No, the propaganda department are there to reduce value to the customer and increase profit for the manufacturer.
Varying the quality of the product itself is one of the tools they might have access to. Packaging, distribution, and adverts with a hilarious and/or adorable dog are other tools.
FFS I really thought it obvious I meant add value for the manufacturer especially in the context. Or are some people (wilfully) incapable of reading plain English.
*shakes head*
We've had our living room painted in a 'little green' matt.
The kitchen was painted last week in a Johnstone's wipeable paint, the colour chosen from the 'little Green' chart, but mixed by the decorator. Both the kitchen chap and the decorator told us the Johnstone's paint was better and recommended. It looks fine to me.
Our teeny utility room is painted in B&Q, this is not so good.
Nah, it's the lead, never heard of painter's colic? Stripping off old paint is properly unhealthy.
Unless you have compared every brand's colour matched paint I'm afraid you can't prove that.
Just the same as if you have not done it either then you can' t prove they are all the same. They are clearly not going to be the same as the components of the paint are different and even from the same manufacturer the effects are different between different finishes of the same colour so it is nigh on impossible for all paints that are technically the same colour to look exactly the same if they are not made from the same materials/ratio.
Again, that won't matter to 99% of people so no big deal. Me and my partner are both very particular so it matters to us.
If you read what I said you will see that at no point did I suggest they are all the same, quite the opposite in fact.
What I am saying, backed up by the opinion of time served decorators is that F&B is over priced. That's not to say it's not better than B&Q or Wilco's but is to say it's not better (and possibly worse in some respects) than the premium 'normal' paint such as Dulux Trade. If you and your partner want to believe differently, that's fine.
IME F&B and the other 'fancy' brands make great colours, use great pigments or whatever and yeah you can match the colour, but not always the 'look' maybe it's placebo, but they're never somehow as nice.
As for the quality of the paint, awful, poor coverage, needing multiple coats, streaks, scratches and chips easily. Even the 'modern' ones.
I've never met a decorator or furniture maker who doesn't think Farrow and Ball is rubbish. I think that's because has a very long drying time which makes it hard to fit into a tight schedule.
I've made a couple of bookcases for a client who wanted it in primed thick MDF (I used windowsill boards). She painted it herself. When I returned to do another job later I was stunned by the quality of the finish. Much better than I could have done.
"Farrow and Ball?" "Yes, I just banged it on with a roller".
When our local Homebase closed down, mrs_oab bought a dafty amount of F&B for £5 a tin, including some masonry paints for our outdoor wall.
The 'super matt' finish is different, they do seem to have a lot of pigment in, and they can choose some nice shades of colour. Could I say they are any 'better' than many other paints? No.
(And I used to sell Biofa and Osmo for a living - now they were superb...)
I note the "effect of solvent on painters" comment which led to my lead poisoning post has been stealth edited out.