[Closed] Anyone bolted their circular saw, upside down, to the underside of a workbench??

I don't think many things are too dangerous for me to try but this is one thing I just know will result in a visit to A&E or the coroner.

You won't have a guard and you may not be able to keep your fingers away if it kicks. You won't be able to stop it very easily either.

Having said that my Festool saw's manual gives a how-to guide, but I closed my eyes and pretended not to see.

clearly nothing could go wrong at all. Why don't you video it for us to see?

You are Homer Simpson and I claim my £5

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..... and maybe a foot operated switch to turn it on and off.....

Or a motion sensor...

Almost as lethal as black & decker's "convert your drill into a circular saw" kit.

I bolted my circular to a piece of chipboard then screwed that to my workbench.
I cut a slot in the chipboard so the guard and blade stuck through and made guide from a piece of timber and 2 clamps. I wrapped tape around the switch and turned it on and off at the plug.
It worked perfectly but I hated using it and wouldn't recommend it. It always felt dangerous.
If you do do it just make sure you use push sticks instead of fingers to feed the wood through.

Andy

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I had one of these many years ago and survived with all my finger and thumbs but wouldn't use one again... The attachment is available on flea-bay under WM141 or WM140 attachment for Workmate

can you make a video like this one?

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saw kickback[/url]

Altho' for anyone working on product testing this might be a test too far....

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EDIT: Drat Pete, you beat me to it.

one of the reasons this exists:

Festool offer a (quite expensive) system for mounting all sorts of tools upside down in a table

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its worth watching twice anyway!

Not done it but there are lots of good YouTube videos explaining how to do it.
(For some reason I like watching woodworking videos on youtube - I have no idea why)

Matthias Wandel is always entertaining:

Loads of detail and links on his website here:
http://woodgears.ca/homemade_tablesaw/

More importantly, has anyone done this and still have their compete complement of fingers left? 😉

You know how in the first five minutes of any episode of casualty........

wwaswas

now go away and price that lot up and let's see what the STW massif make of that!

(you don't have to price the up the new cordless TS55 btw)

I know the brushes will be made from disused pencil sharpenings and you'll probably have to spray the entire thing with locktite, but is it really worth the effort?

[url= http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/power-tools/bench-tools/table__flip_over___combination_saws/Performance-Power-800W-Table-Saw-12428565?skuId=12949271 ]Cheapo Table Saw[/url]

Have done. Used it once. Decided I liked my fingers, didn't use it again.

Then again, mounted properly with a decent switch and a fence and so on, it could work almost as well as a regular table saw.

[i]now go away and price that lot up[/i]

the more I look at their stuff the more I think it looks like it might represent value for money. Which is quite worrying.

Graham that matthias wandel saw looks pretty good. I thin kits about a million miles away from and upside down saw bolted to a workbench though...

Yeah Matthias likes to engineer things. 😀

He does raise good points though - how will you make sure it is perpendicular? How will you adjust depth or angle?

Check his website though, he links to a bunch of other homemade table saw videos - some have a more straightforward approach.

My Dad had a table saw (might still be in his shed), always fancied a go on it. Having watched the above videos, don't think I'll bother.

Yes I've done it many years ago on building sites (I wasn't the only one).

Well it wasn't exactly a workbench it was just something you knocked up to fix the upside circular saw to - a table shaped object.

It works surprisingly well, the slot for the blade is made by simply plunging the circular saw, and the guide is just a length of timber screwed down.

And the switch has to be jammed on, so make sure you can quickly unplug should things go wrong.

Obviously it works best for repetitive rips as the guide can't easily be moved. And not having any guard or being able to quickly switch off is obviously a little dangerous.

I would suggest screwing the circular saw to the bench even if you have to drill holes into the base as I wouldn't trust clamps not to suddenly release without warning due to prolonged exposure to vibrations.

Better still buy the right tools/kit.

That sawstop is amazing!

Just for info. My old geography teacher did exactly what you propose. He cut his hand off at the wrist not long after. 😯

That's all.

How the f*** do you quickly unplug it should anything go wrong without any fingers?

Still trying to work out how its any different to my table saw..... Manufactured 1992

No guard on that.

Provided the things bolted down propper- wouldnt clamp it or even screw it and the bench is substantial id do it.

But i dont have to, i have an elu.

( and all my fingers , toes and other appendages- some folk just shouldnt be let near bladed tools)

"He does raise good points though - how will you make sure it is perpendicular? How will you adjust depth or angle?"

My circular saw lets me do both relitvie to the base plate.... So bolt down baseplate and adjust height and angle as you wish.

I have one of these:

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Got it off fleabay from a builder for about £20. As long as your alignment is good then it works fine. Big stop button controls the power but you do need to frig the trigger on the ripsaw to stay on whilst you use the table switches to run it.

Just buy a flipsaw instead.

Pointless. By the time you've made a Half decent fence for it you may as well have bought a little jobsite table saw.

I did it with a jigsaw once, worked fine - wouldn't even consider it with a circular, but then I've a table saw.

tbh If you've space table saws' can be bought cheap and even cheap ones work well as long as you set them up properly.

It always felt dangerous.

Can't possibly think why.

More importantly, has anyone done this and still have their compete complement of fingers left?

Are you expecting anyone to be able to type a response? 🙂

It wouldn't be any more dangerous than a regular bench saw[i] if[/i] you included the features that a bench saw has - which is a guard for the blade (which shouldn't be too difficult to achieve) and a means to stop it quickly. You can get in-line no volt release switches which you could screw to your bench in an appropriate position. But the circuitry of the saw is part of that two. A bench saw (if its been manufactured in the last decade or so) should actively stop the blade in a few seconds, rather just turn off the power and leave the blade spinning. Your circular saw might do that too - but it uses power to do that, so releasing the trigger will stop the blade, but pulling the plug (or using an in-line switch) might just leave the blade spinning.

You also want to create a reliable fence and maybe a mitre guide.That and making sure the saw is attached firmly enough and straight enough.... means you've sort of gained a bench saw and lost your circular saw - getting it set up and working well enough to be be properly useful rather than a quick bodge would mean you wouldn't want to un-set it very often.

The other question is - are you going to use it for? Since I bought a rail saw I've almost never switched my bench saw on - I only use it for cutting repeated batches of material. For everything else the rail saw is quicker, easier and more accurate. Its also more space and effort efficient. If you want to cut an 8ft sheet you only need yourself and 8ft of clear space - with a bench saw you need 8 feet in front of the blade, 8 feet behind the blade and two people to handle the board.

You can make your own rail saw in about 5 minutes.

I bought a table saw at considerable expense when doing 4 rooms of hardwood floor in our new house. It saved a shitload of time. I use it now and again and it terrifies me. I always wear short sleeves and treat the thing with a great deal of respect.

There's no way I'd bodge one. Very dangerous. I only know one person who's properly injured themselves with a machine tool and it was a table saw.

Anywhere near South Wales, PLEASE borrow mine!

wwaswas

"now go away and price that lot up"

the more I look at their stuff the more I think it looks like it might represent value for money. Which is quite worrying.

I know what you mean. I've looked at Festooning myself with more kit.

You could always just use your normal circular saw with a guide fence, like Steve Ramsey does here (watch from 1:40 onwards if you want to skip the waffle):

More importantly, has anyone done this and still have their compete complement of fingers left?

My great-grandad had a home-made table saw, and eight fingers. These two facts are not unrelated.

[i]eight fingers.[/i]

unless you're from Norfolk isn't this the standard number?

Sorry, six fingers and two thumbs.

Definitely a potential candidate for a Darwin award.

I've done it's loads. sorry

But it's got a proper kill switch fence and Crown guard. And you should never have the blade more than 10 mm to 15 mm higher than what you are cutting.

I've got a real table saw now just as dangerous in the wrong hands

This reminds me of the time I went and bought some foam to make a sofa with. The guy who sold it cut it to spec. He had 2 cutting tables, one for vertical cuts, one for horizontal. They both consisted of a blade on a band, about as thick and sharp as a razor blade going round at high speed. He put the foam on the table and pushed it towards the blade. Which was unprotected. On the horizontal cutter his knuckles stopped about 1cm short of the blade, for the vertical one it was his nose and forehead.

I don't think he was one of those people who worked with his tongue sticking out.

It's the stuff of nightmares.

Oh, and yes, a Festool Guide Rail Saw plus 2 cheap saw benches and a couple of lengths of 3x2 is excellent for making lots of quick accurate clean safe cuts. [url= http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/4014549179253%20561583%20TS55%20REBQ-Plus-FS%20Plunge%20Cut%20Circular%20saw%20240v%20inc%20FS1400%20Rail ]£333[/url] at the moment.

I've done it's loads. sorry

But it's got a proper kill switch fence and Crown guard. And you should never have the blade more than 10 mm to 15 mm higher than what you are cutting.

I've got a real table saw now just as dangerous in the wrong hands

Actually that is rubbish, you want as much blade through as possible as this will stop the blade trying to bite into the timber, but allow it to cut cleaner as you will have more teeth cutting on the down stroke. This is why qualifications are important and not bad advice. Can you tell I did my blade changing refresher today. Have seen some nasty accidents on the correct kit, so wouldnt want to imagine the accidents on bodged kit.

Marcel

 

I don't have any "qualifications" apart from having a joinery business for 28 years; I'm sure I do loads of stuff that is technically dangerous. I think the most dangerous thing about a circular saw bolted underneath a workmate is not lack of guards or isolators but the shear lack of oomph in the motor. A workshop table saw will have a 3 phase motor of at least 4KW, meaning the work can be fed through with very little pressure (so any loss of control will not result in you landing on the blade).
A lower blade height will mean MORE teeth involved in the cut at any point and less breakout on the underside of the work

I've been doing a bit of googling on this...as I use one occasionally...in fact, occasionally but often enough to have remind myself not to be blasé about it. It seems that current thinking is to keep the blade height higher (without being silly) as this means the cut is more vertical than horizontal and means [i]less[/i] contact with the workpiece at any time during the cut - less chance of kickback and overheating. Hmmm...I think I'll do a bit more googling on it, as I'd always thought blade height should be around a 1/4" - 1/2" above the workpiece height. 😕

That makes sense dd - more like using a handsaw.

Too much blade showing ruins your workpiece finish ime...

I find having minimal break through gives a much neater finish and less splintering.

Still have all my fingers.

As someone else mentioned .. Push sticks

I was working at a house the other week when the man of the house, a man in his seventies came out to the back yard shirtless (he meant business) and fired up one of these

I was never as glad to see it throw a belt off so he could live until another time when I wouldn't be there to pick up his torso/limbs/head!

No worse than a chainsaw.... If you respect it.

so many accidents happen on c/saws and spindle moulders, only use properley designed and made benches,with accessable off switch, and now all new stuff marked with the CE SYMBOL.

Also C/SAW benches have a riving knife to stop timber binding on rear of balde which can lift timber up towards you if timber jams, a crown guard to cover the top of the blade in case something should fall on blade, and also stops wood being flicked up, a dust extraction port, and a sturdy frame..

Oh and as one old timer patternmaker told me if you abuse a machine it will remember and get you back, be warned.

Marcel I'm up to date thanks

The op asked about running a skill saw upside down..... you want him to run 50mm of blade with no guards! Cutting 20mm board so he gets a cleaner cut. My table saw will only run 30mm max above the material .it's about the right blade for the timber and feed speed. I see so many people trying to cut 100 mm timber with a fine tooth blade that has no capable space to remove waste the blade jams they push harder and you can guess the rest. Your talking ideal world practice and a skill saw upside down is not in that category.

A crown guard fitted correctly and you can run the blade high. the blade will stay sharper for longer too depending on the pitch of the tooth.

The only problem I see with blade set at 20mm above the work is when people feed it to fast (ham fisted). The idea is if the blade is only 20mm above the work you should not be able take your arm off.

The worst accident I have ever witnessed was with the blade set as you stated blade high with crown attached I had changed the blade to cut a 100mm post down the length set the saw up along with the "do not use sign" on the bed went to get my ear defenders and someone used the saw to cut 18mm mdf the 80mm or so of blade took his hand and wrist off.

As a hand surgeon who has stuck quite a few fingers back on after people have accidentally cut them off it is interesting to note how many responses to the question "How did you do this then?" start with "Well I know I shouldn't have but..."

C.O.I: on call over weekend, hoping not to meet any STWers!

Oh Yeh push sticks people.

Tinytim if everyone used spindle moulders you would be OK. No bits left to sew back on. eek

Holy crap Docstar..you can just see the old boy ripping an old piece of parquet flooring, thumb either side of the blade.....
Whilst we're on amusing tales: I had just finished laying an oak overlay floor last Tuesday (I had had to replace a couple of sq/m of worm eaten existing boards prior to this) and was settling down for the night when the customer phoned to let me know one of his cats was meowing from underneath the new floor! 😀

I did go and lift a board in an adjacent cupboard to let the mite out (once I'd finished laughing)...

Right I've just looked at that video. my god!

And just in case anyone is ever considering mounting a bench saw blade to a cordless drill to "speed things up a bit" it doesn't cut wood half as well as it cuts your fingers...(!!)

Black@decker did an adapter for that my granddad had one .

Sounds insane,

Wire wheels on drills are vicious and un controlable enough, cant imagine a drill with a circular saw blade :/

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Oh have I started something.

I think the point I was making is that correct machine for the correct job. Current thinking is higher blade height so kore down cut. Obviously correct blade choice you wouldnt use a cross cut for a rip. I like some of the others do this for a living. I am qualified and I did by blade changing refresher today. Maybe some people need to move with the times and look at what is new and current advice. I think.we can all learn ftom each other, I have been taught some cracking ideas hy apprentices as they are not weighed down by all of the rules. I dont agree with mounting circular saw upside down, and I dont agree with old school ideas on blade height. 28 years in the game or 2, whatever works for you is fine.
I work on items in excess of 1million. We are not allowed breakout.

Marcel

you will have more teeth cutting on the down stroke

It's only ever the teeth on the "down stroke" that does the cutting on a bench saw, by the time the timber reaches the "up stroke" the cut has already been made. Unless of course you feed it from the wrong side of the bench saw.

And there won't be more teeth cutting - the saw blade will have exactly the same amount of teeth it started with, however much you move it up and down. Feed it slowly if you want to use more teeth to do the cutting.

Of course in the case of a handheld circular saw the opposite is true, ie, it's the "up stroke" that does the cutting while the "down stroke" does nothing, which explains why the underside of ripped ply is always more splinter free than the top side.

As for my personal digits qualifications is concerned**, I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, but only just - I almost lost my left little finger on a bench saw. The first I knew of it was the blood spraying off the blade into the air, I didn't feel any pain (that came later). Luckily I was moving my hand very slowly (I won't go into detail) so it just cut the flesh and only 5 stitches were required.

** To be fair I'm a site carpenter so I only have the limited experience of working for short periods in joinery shops, mostly providing support.