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These new fines, are they all based on earnings or do the fixed penalties still get used?
Saw a man on the Derbyshire constabulary page had been find over 1700 quid for doing 59 on the m1 when the variable speed had been reduced to 50. That seems a bit harsh to me.
earnings based, depends on what 1700 quid means to you. What does it mean to a footballer?
wrightyson - MemberThat seems a bit harsh to me.
Not if he was in a Bugatti.
Bmw apparently. So all fines now based on earnings percentage? Even say an old school fixed 30mph camera? If you're doing say 36 get flashed it's not longer 3 points and 100 quid?
Seems like a fair system to me - everyone's punishment cost's the same relative amount of pain...
That seems a bit harsh to me.
Not harsh enough if there were operatives in the work area. It's a simple concept if it says max 50 don't exceed this and be prepared to travel slower than this.
I got popped last month.
63 in a 40 "smart motorway" section of the M6. All lanes open and no other traffic at 2am.
£100 fine and 3 points. Was expecting worse.
Dont speed folks.
Seems like a fair system to me
+1
The old system was crap. Flat £100 fine could mean someone going without heating for a week, while someone else might regard it is a perfectly reasonable charge to drive as fast as they like.
That's the point isn't it? Hit you in the wallet because that's all some people understand! Might actually change his behaviour, you never know!That seems a bit harsh to me.
Looking at the post there were two drivers fined.
One was doing 80mph in a 50mph - £1490 fine
Other doing 59mph in a 50mph - £1730 fine.
If it had been the other way round the richer guy would have been looking at a fine of nearly £3k.
[url= http://www.evo.co.uk/news/18773/speeding-fines-what-this-means-for-uk-drivers ]Handy table here to work out how much[/url]
So justify the 100 quid fine for ginger above who was 23 mph over the variable limit when this guy was 9mph over. That seems like an old standard fine to me and hugely disproportionate to the offence.
Northern Matt, the other guy got a ban as well didn't he. He was clearly taking the piss at that speed though.
So justify the
No idea bu there is a simple solution that involves paying attention and not speeding. Easy answer I know.
Yeah 56 day ban, it would have been that or 6 points.
Luckily for the irresponsible half the cameras aren't switched on, because there's no financial incentive any more.
How do they judge earnings? I'm freelance and low salary + dividends (so probably soon to be revealed in Paradise Papers 😀 ).
sounds like the old (pre income-based) penalty structure. How/why, don't know.So justify the 100 quid fine for ginger above who was 23 mph over the variable limit
It reads like it's based on income, not salary. Maybe they average it out over the last year. I'm sure they've thought about it 🙂How do they judge earnings? I'm freelance and low salary + dividends
Are these new sanctions applicable in Scotland?
How do they judge earnings? I'm freelance and low salary + dividends
Yup, same here. As a 1 man Ltd Co.
Would be interested to see how it plays out.
Notiggs121 - Member
Are these new sanctions applicable in Scotland?
Isn't it still 3 points/fixed penalty £100 fine or a speed awareness course* unless you either:
a. go to court (for not paying fine etc)
b. are doing substantially over the limit
c. are not eligible for the points (have 9/12 already etc).
That article linked above is hugely confusing/inaccurate.
*That's what I was offered last month for 55ish in a 50.
My salary is boosted by a bonus at christmas. I don't always get it, sometimes it's more sometimes less. Again be interested to see what it's based on.
Lad at work got done recently for doing 38 in a 20 during school kicking out time, so Band B. Ended up with a £550 fine. He was expecting a straight £100 so it came as a bit of a shock to him. Not to anyone else though, he habitually speeds everywhere. Hasn't slowed him down though.
What's sad is the comments below that Evo article northernmatt linked to with people saying it's a money-grabbing exercise by the government! It's not. Don't speed = no fine. It is really as simple as that. If I can manage it driving 15k a year private mileage and working as a courier (so add another 20-25k and the pressure of time limits on deliveries) without a single fine in 18 years of driving then anyone can.
what happens if your a min wage erner then?
Above someone said its better for the lower earners, well say 350 quid a week is your salary and they take the standard band a from you it's a 175 fine. Mr bugatti can easily stand his big 2000 quid fine as he earns so much each week but that would be very hard on someone earning the 350.
A fwiw I try very hard not to speed myself, don't condone it in anyway and totally understand you only have yourself to blame etc.
Isn't it still 3 points/fixed penalty £100 fine or a speed awareness course* unless you either:a. go to court (for not paying fine etc)
b. are doing substantially over the limit
c. are not eligible for the points (have 9/12 already etc).
Yes.
Lad I work with just got done for doing 47 in a 30 limit, don't know what the penalty will be as he is probably going to court.
It's his second speeding offence this year and he already has 3 points but he also hasn't been passed his test 2 years so there is a high probability he will have his licence revoked as if you get 6 points in your first 2 years of driving you lose you licence.
Above someone said its better for the lower earners, well say 350 quid a week is your salary and they take the standard band a from you it's a 175 fine.
IIRC it's your post-tax income so mr £350pw would typically be fined £150ish
So Mr £1700 fine is probably pulling in something like £325000 a year - water off a duck's back to him i'll venture
sboggy - MemberLad I work with just got done for doing 47 in a 30 limit, don't know what the penalty will be as he is probably going to court.
No offence as its a work colleague etc but they are the arseholes who want banning!
So Mr £1700 fine is probably pulling in something like £325000 a year - water off a duck's back to him i'll venture
Depends on his credit commitments. Could be the straw...
I got done in early September, speed camera van parked up in the bushes at the end of a long straight bit of road exiting a village. 35mph in a 30zone, I basically accelerated a bit too soon.
Did the speed awareness course a few days ago, it was actually quite good. Not preachy and the instructors made the effort to keep iut relaxed. SOme fairly stereotypical people there though including several who were on their second or third course! For the most part, everyone was pretty reasonable.
Not condoning speeding but those smart motorways and leaving a 40mph restriction on in the middle of the night when there are no hazards/ works is a bit rich.
Round our way it seems at night nobody bothers with the 30 limit or the no >7.5t limit through the village.
As I understand it some are linked to pollution and/or noise sensors and deploy the restrictions if either of these are too high (i.e. nothing to do with hazards or lack of)Not condoning speeding but those smart motorways and leaving a 40mph restriction on in the middle of the night when there are no hazards/ works is a bit rich.
mickmcd - Member
what happens if your a min wage erner then?
You'd be fined, 50%, 100% or 150% of your weekly wage depending on how much you were over the limit.
That's only really the starting point though, the court hands down the fine, if you want to you can write to them and explain you can't afford it etc. They used to give you up to a year from the judgement to pay it, as long as you kept up the payments.
I got a £350 fine for someone years back when we were more skint than even now, I paid £35 a month a think.
Did the speed awareness course a few days ago, it was actually quite good. Not preachy and the instructors made the effort to keep iut relaxed. SOme fairly stereotypical people there though including several who were on their second or third course! For the most part, everyone was pretty reasonable.
I've got one coming up. I really can't imagine it being much use, I'm perfectly aware of how danger increases with speed. Ho hum. Silly me.
34 in a 30 zone = just over £400 for me. Not in a Bugatti. Was expecting £100. Filled in form to show that outgoings exceed incomings as they always seem to. Assumed it was a N. Yorks thing as they don't have cameras (radar in Lythe as it goes).
Drive marginally slower now. Through Lythe. Unless the surf's good and I'm in danger of missing the tide. Hey ho.
What if, like, the driver is the non-earning half of a rather well off couple?
The form asks about household income. Ours will be high in the distribution I guess, get me, so mustn't grumble. We're just rubbish with money (as in drive an old berlingo and have no idea how anyone affords anything else).
I got done for 34mph in a 30mph and did a speed awareness course a few weeks ago. £78 in Leeds.
Enjoyed the course, I was expecting it to be really boring and preachy. It was actually really interesting though, with some really useful facts.
Not condoning speeding but those smart motorways and leaving a 40mph restriction on in the middle of the night when there are no hazards/ works is a bit rich.
As has been said pollution can mean lower speed limits and also if there is and incident further down the motorway, they sometimes slow the upstream traffic down so they can clear the incident.
I may have gotten off easy as it was very much a first offence - never had a ticket in 15 years until now. If anyone is really interested I'll dig out the paperwork and see what it says.
I did look into what controls "smart motorway gantry signs" and as it turns out 90% of them are computer controlled. They can be triggered by something as simple as an abnormal load going a bit slowly among other things. Turns out they're not very smart.
My driving habits have changed though - aint got a spare £1k knocking around, would be shafted if I got a big fine.
Aren’t there over half the speed cameras [i]not[/i] working in this country? Something on the radio the other day via a FOI that went to all police forces, something about not wanting to maintain them due to cost.
So, seem like these two gonks were in the wrong place maybe half hr later they were switched off.
I’m still very confused about the M1speed limits from Rugby down to the A43 justction, 50mph ave speed and includes cameras but no one gives a toss except me and the other old bloke.. it’s a game surely.. dodge the cameras..
No offence as its a work colleague etc but they are the arseholes who want banning!
^ Yep, he passes another guy I work with who cycles to work and he says he drives like a dick head, he is exactly the reason why the law only allowing 6 points for new drivers was brought in.
Edit
Thing is he could have had a speed awareness course the first time but didn't send the paperwork back in time so he ended up with 3 points 🙄
So 2 blokes doing 34 in a 30 above, one theoretically fined 330 ish quid more than the other. I'm sorry but that's just bullshit in my eyes. I can't see how that's right no matter what you're earning.
Is it ok if one pays more tax than the other or is that bullshit too?
Loving the forum of cyclists preaching about responsible road use. Quality.
The point of the fine is to be an incentive to make you slow down in future.
If you are earning £10,000 a week then £100 isn't enough to make you change your mind. If you are earning £250 a week then it might be.
There's another forum discussing this too?wrecker - Member
Loving the forum of cyclists preaching about responsible road use
One gets a driver awareness and one a fine?
[i]wrecker -
Loving the forum of cyclists preaching about responsible road use. Quality.[/i]
What this mean? Cyclists aren't responsible road users??
What this mean? Cyclists aren't responsible road users??
Some are, some most definitely aren't. Probably similar percentage to drivers really, but if the police started fining them for improper cycling especially linking it to salary they'd be going apeshit. But as it's currently aimed at drivers, it's all "drive responsibly". Look at the outcry at the courts recent decision of locking that **** up and brining in a new law.
One gets a driver awareness and one a fine?
I didn't get fined, I was offered the speed awareness course. The letter I got said 10%+9mph and you get offered the course. So 42 in a 30 should still see you offered the course rather than a fine.
Unless of course you have already done a course in the last 3 years....
Sandwich
Not harsh enough if there were operatives in the work area. It's a simple concept if it says max 50 don't exceed this and be prepared to travel slower than this
Indeed, it's been proven many many times that it's impossible to hurt or kill someone if you are not actually speeding......... /sarcasm-mode
Despite the over simplified one-dimensional nonsense the government likes to trot out speeding doesn't kill. Driving like a numpty kills, and speeding is only one (small) part of the much bigger, much more complex picture.
Speeding obviously doesn't kill. It's the stopping what does it.
No but John x2 dis and he was doing the same as you 34 in a 30 according to your two posts. He got a 400 quid fine you got the awarness course.
Could this be a last minute effort to get a bit more cash from motorists before gps controlled level 4 autonomous cars come in? Could it be foreshadowing tiered speed limits for different grades of car?
chinrub emoji.
So 2 blokes doing 34 in a 30 above, one theoretically fined 330 ish quid more than the other. I'm sorry but that's just bullshit in my eyes. I can't see how that's right no matter what you're earning.
As a cyclist, I personally couldn't care if it's fair or not. The higher the fine the better IMO. I think they should implement a three strikes then you have to redo your test. Soon sort the arseholes out.
I've never been done for speeding as I'm near enough a perfect driver, it's a shame the roads are choc-a-bloc with people who [i]can't[/i] driver properly though.
The bloke who got the £400 fine would have refused the offer of a course and/or refused the offer of a £100 fine and 3 points. If you don't admit your guilt at the early stage then you go to court where the fine and points can be significantly higher hence he got a £400 fine as they then take your income into account.
Coming down the M6 the other day there were temporary signs saying 50 whilist the gantry signs said 60.
Doesn't read like that as he expected a 100 quid fine. I'm not defending either as such, but there is way too much disparity across different counties etc. Seems to me which beak you get on the day if you go to court can also have a big difference on the fine.
Sandwich
Not harsh enough if there were operatives in the work area. It's a simple concept if it says max 50 don't exceed this and be prepared to travel slower than this
Whilst I agree with the sentiment there is one problem. There never are people working. I struggle to recall any time i’ve driven through motorway roadworks and there be actually anyone on them let alone working. No matter what time of day or night i’ve Driven through them. Anyway that’s an aside.
I worry about the assumed linkage with what people earn and their ability to pay. There is a huge difference between someone earning say £60k who has a family to support and a single person earning the same. So the ‘pain’ is not necessarily the same for 2 people earning the same salary. Earnings is a very poor indicator to how rich someone is.... at least until you get into the realms of those earning properly high salaries.
Despite the over simplified one-dimensional nonsense the government likes to trot out speeding doesn't kill. Driving like a numpty kills, and speeding is only one (small) part of the much bigger, much more complex picture.
The thing is, it's a message aimed at one dimensional numpties, they can't understand two dimensions 🙄
So, if you have a family to support, think about them when you're driving and def don't get yourself a speeding fine!
There is a huge difference between someone earning say £60k who has a family to support and a single person earning the same. So the ‘pain’ is not necessarily the same for 2 people earning the same salary
Lol! £60K, you having a ****ing laugh?!
Seems to me which beak you get on the day if you go to court can also have a big difference on the fine.
Not at all. There are very defined guidelines on what your fine will be. The only factors taken into account are the speed limit, your speed and your income. Magistrates aren't able to go outside these guidelines.
if the police started fining them for improper cycling especially linking it to salary they'd be going apeshit
Because it would be massively disproportionate?
Drivers kill or seriously injure more than 24,000 people a year in the UK. Cyclists don't.
(I'm not particularly against enforcing cycling laws)
Because it would be massively disproportionate?
And fining someone £400 for doing 6MPH over the limit isn't?!?!
Depends what they earn.
Johnx2 doesn't actually say if he was offered the course or he'd already done one though. So he might not be entitled to a course. He might already have 6 points.
I got caught in Lincolnshire, but live in Leeds, the course is £17 cheaper in Leeds.
Apparently if you caught in Dorset you have to do the course in Dorset. It's the only county that makes you do that.
Depends what they earn.
OK how much do you think would be a fair fine for a cyclist RLJ-ing or speeding or cycling the wrong way up a OWS or riding irresponsibly on a shared use path? I see this stuff every single day I go into the office. having previously been a huge proponent for cycling and its advocacy, I have had a gutfull of hearing the bleating and the selective application of the law.
Unless of course you have already done a course in the last 3 years....
I had. And obviously pleaded guilty but wasn't offered options.
Sure I'm pissed off with £400 for 34mph but mean it when I say mustn't grumble. Didn't lie on the form and two professional salaries, no mortgages and kids away is likely to have put us in the top band, berlingo notwithstanding. Queried this with the court, and had it all confirmed.
Only good thing is my wife was actually in the car at the time, so wasn't going to accuse me of driving like a nutter.
Just to be clear - of course those who can pay more should do so. This is a Yorkshireman not complaining...
Wrecker:
RLJing - same fine as a car.
Speeding - not an offence.
Wrong way - tricky as it may often be safer than a busy parallel road and is often sanctioned by cycling infrastructure.
Riding irresponsibly on shared use - dickish but also not an offence.
OK how much do you think would be a fair fine for a cyclist RLJ-ing or speeding or cycling the wrong way up a OWS or riding irresponsibly on a shared use path?
😆
Seriously? Who's gonna fine cyclists? Who even gives a shit? Why do you give a shit considering you're on a cycling forum?
I see cyclists being irresponsible everyday, kids pratting about on BMXs, there's one guy who cycles past me on the pavement on his way home from work. Why does it matter?
Police can't catch the arseholes who speed or drive through amber lights or use their phones when driving, so to worry about what cyclists are doing is laughable.
Is it only for speeding that these fines are applied, or does it include other motoring offences?
Wayne Rooney only got fined £170 quid for drink driving...