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Hi all.
We're having some problems with land access.
We've been battling a neighbour over a small area of land that we need access over so we can get into our paddock.
See previous thread here:
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/off-topic/recommend-me-a-good-conveyancing-solicitor/
Things have changed recently and highways have given up the patch of land that was previously marked as highway on the land registry map and it is now unregistered land.
The bonehead over the road who dearly wants this tiny patch of land has now dumped builders bags full of rubble in every vacant space around his van and put a white line on the road where he considers the boundary between the road and 'his' land. He has also put a little sign on it declaring 'private parking'
For clarity, he doesn't need this land. He has well over 2 acres of land which is flat and easily accessible and ideal for parking. The vehicle he keeps on there hasn't moved for well over a year, and when he did use it it was very infrequent, meaning that if we wanted to get into our paddock we had to ask him to move his van.
This is purely a power thing for him. I believe he is trying to put things in place so that he can claim adverse posession of this land. If he manages this we won't ever be able to get a vehicle into our paddock again.
So, what I want to know is:
Now that the land is unregistered, is there anything I can do to gain right of access or some other way of gaining control of it?
Is there any way of countering his A.P claim with a claim of my own of some kind?
Will his sign, a white line and some bags of rubble be enough for him to show he has 'prevented use of the land by other parties' so the adverse posession claim may be successful?
If I walk over the land periodically, will that be enough to stop his claim?
Is there anything else I can do to improve my chances of success?
Thanks in advance,
Dave.
Report him to the council for fly tipping and vandalism of the public highway.
A dispute with your neighbours is almost always more stress than it is worth. Its not clear to me what you relied on when you bought the property to assure you that there was a right of access. What's his motivation for keeping it? Is he just hoping you'll make him an offer. Grating though that might be - it might be cheaper than the alternative.
You need a specialist boundary dispute/neighbourly matters surveyor. I happen to run a surveying firm with a boundary disputes team in it. Drop me a pm and if you like and I can get someone to give you a call in 1st instance...
Its not clear to me what you relied on when you bought the property to assure you that there was a right of access.
This. Not having a guaranteed access into your paddock is "bad".
He's either going to charge you a fortune to buy it or try and buy your paddock for very little.
Can you apply for an access elsewhere on the road?
I thought the highways dept always owned the verge along a road.
Start with the fly tipping reporting. Had to do this with a builder neighbour where he left rubble from another house he was working on locally, never mind his own home. Then go down solicitor route, but this could be costly. Bob the builder has been at it again, this time replacing his block paving with flags - been over two months of mess again. Ah well.
Is there anything else I can do to improve my chances of success?
Littering (van and rubble) in the open air is illegal in any place that the public has access, report it and get it removed https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/87 and https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/3/crossheading/abandoned-vehicles-and-other-refuse
The removal will be at his expense
Find out who the owner is, that opens up a whole raft of options.
It might be the LA on some hand-written document. Lack of development doesn't mean that the land is no longer a highway
How was this issue not brought up when you bought the property by your conveyancing solicitor?
Is he running a scrap car/car repair business on his land without planning permission?
Trouble is though, along with the flytipping reports, this type of person is much better at being an arsehole than you are when it comes to neighbour disputes. You're already in a position where this strip of land is now worth much less than you paid for it because there are question marks over legal access. He effectively has a ransom strip either by default, or by the legal cost to you of forcing him to cede it.
Is there any other potential access that could be created to your paddock from the public highway?
What reasons did the Highway Authority give for 'giving up' on land previously marked as public highway? This action/inaction puts you at potential financial loss because you can't access your land. Might be worth going up the complaint/local government ombudsman chain if you've not already done it.
If you ever come to sell your house you are going to have to declare that there has been a dispute with the neighbour if you make it official.
Report him to the council for fly tipping and vandalism of the public highway.
The council weren't interested, it was them that informed me that the status of the land had changed from highway to unregistered.
You need a specialist boundary dispute/neighbourly matters surveyor. I happen to run a surveying firm with a boundary disputes team in it. Drop me a pm and if you like and I can get someone to give you a call in 1st instance...
Thanks ravingdave,
I'll drop you a message over the next few days, assuming the messaging still works!
A dispute with your neighbours is almost always more stress than it is worth. Its not clear to me what you relied on when you bought the property to assure you that there was a right of access. What's his motivation for keeping it? Is he just hoping you'll make him an offer. Grating though that might be - it might be cheaper than the alternative.
You're probably right there, but that horse already bolted and now that there's been a change of circumstances I'd like to make sure that there's nothing else we can do befor we just leave it as it is.
We do have access to the land, but it's too narrow and steep to ever get a vehicle down there. I can just about get my mower down there, and I could maybe get a 3 ton digger in, but nothing bigger. I will need a bigger machine in there at somepoint, and I'd really like to put the driveway on this side of the house too.
TBH, Access from the road wasn't considered when we bought it. It was bought during the covid boom and the Solicitors never flagged it and we didn't think about it too much due to being able to get a mower in from the other end.
I have considered making him an offer for it, but I'm clueless when it comes to things like this, hence the request for advice/search for a solicitor who can advise.
I was of the under the impression it took 10 years to gain adverse possession, and that could only be achieved if you could prove there were no objections and you had used the land continuously and paid no rent...
How was this issue not brought up when you bought the property by your conveyancing solicitor?
As said in another response it was purchased in the Covid stamp duty holiday rush and the Solicitors never mentioned it we didn't consider it either.
Is this something we'd have any comeback on with the solicitors? I'm presuming not?
Its not clear to me what you relied on when you bought the property to assure you that there was a right of access.This. Not having a guaranteed access into your paddock is "bad".
He's either going to charge you a fortune to buy it or try and buy your paddock for very little.
Can you apply for an access elsewhere on the road?
I thought the highways dept always owned the verge along a road.
I don't think he's interested in buying our paddock, he does nothing with the big, flat, accessible one that he already has - I can't imagine he'd be too fussed on our steep, terraced awkard paddock.
This is just a power move - as far as I can make out from other neighbours his dad did the same to the previous few owners of our property. He likes having people at his beck and call. After the initial blow-up he complained the he didn't want to be at OUR beck and call having to move vehicles to let us into our field, so I said, well stop parking there then! He said 'not happenin' I asked 'why don't you just park a vehicle there that you use then?, that way I can get in the field when you're out and I won't have to bother you. Again, he wasn't interested- had no actual reason why he wouldn't agree to this though so my assumption is that he just wants control over us.
Maybe he does just want some money for the land. Trouble is, he doesn't own it yet (adverse posession, if sucessful, takes 10/12years and he's only been going for a year since I last drove over it) so it can't actually be sold, can it? Without any ownership/handing over of deeds it would just be money in his bank account and a an old transit van still decaying outside my livingroom window with no legal right to get it moved.
Is he running a scrap car/car repair business on his land without planning permission?
Trouble is though, along with the flytipping reports, this type of person is much better at being an arsehole than you are when it comes to neighbour disputes. You're already in a position where this strip of land is now worth much less than you paid for it because there are question marks over legal access. He effectively has a ransom strip either by default, or by the legal cost to you of forcing him to cede it.
Is there any other potential access that could be created to your paddock from the public highway?
What reasons did the Highway Authority give for 'giving up' on land previously marked as public highway? This action/inaction puts you at potential financial loss because you can't access your land. Might be worth going up the complaint/local government ombudsman chain if you've not already done it.
Yes, he does do a bit of work on peoples cars for cash. I doubt there's any planning permission for this. Why do you ask?
There is a possibility that we could add access further along the road, it would be easy with the difference in levels but it is doable. It's more of a last resort though because I don't want to let the bully win, and it would mean surfacing a fair portion of the paddock that we'd like to leave as wildflower meadow.
I don't think the value of the property with be hugely affected - the land is still accessible, just not with a vehicle. And the main reason I want to do this is to move the driveway and possibly add a small barn.
Interesting idea on the ombudsman, I'll have a look into that - thanks.
I don’t think the clock restarts every time he moves his van to let you cross the land.
i don’t think anyone except the legit owner can “object” to adverse possession.
But as I understand it he can’t claim adverse possession if he is already claiming to be the rightful owner/occupier.
It doesn’t make sense to be a dick just for the sake of it - so either he wants money, he wants to make sure you can’t develop the paddock or you’ve pissed him off and this problem is going to be much harder to solve but is partly of your own making!
I would investigate what it would take and cost to lift your digger over the house using a crane. That would set a cost benchmark, but if it’s an option it might make him see that he doesn’t have complete control and a compromise is an option (I don’t see any reason why you can’t enter a binding agreement not to do certain things, to pay money (one off or annual) and for him not to do certain things if you can actually have a grown up conversation).
Take up bee keeping on the same bit of ground?
Half hour to install a hive whilst he's out and it's not the sort of thing you can easily boot off without getting stung.
You would actively be making use of the ground for your own claim.
More seriously, if the field wasn't sold with access to the highway or a right of passage over neighbouring ground it is effectively an island. Going from vehicle access to pedestrian access is definitely a devaluation in the land. As has already been mentioned, you can apply for permission to create access to a highway. Maybe ask a planning advisor about this, particularly with relation to across the dumping area whilst it is in the grey. Highways may have given it up, but it could remain with council countryside department or town council.
Interesting idea on the ombudsman, I'll have a look into that - thanks.
With the cautionary note that Highways won't be minded to grant you a fresh road access if you are officially complaining or taking them to the Ombudsman. Speak to your councillor perhaps?
Have people been accessing the land via this entrance before you bought it, and importantly can you get anyone to sign a statement to that effect? If so you might be able to get a prescriptive easement. I'd certainly have a Google of right of way easements and see if it applies.
I'd also try and keep accessing the land, especially with a vehicle whenever possible.
There is a possibility that we could add access further along the road, it would be easy with the difference in levels but it is doable. It's more of a last resort though because I don't want to let the bully win, and it would mean surfacing a fair portion of the paddock that we'd like to leave as wildflower meadow.
Personally I'd go down that route.
People have lost their life savings 'proving a point' over boundary and access issues.
And I find it odd that highways have given up the land. It may not be classified as highway anymore but organisations don't just let land go.
Get some planning permission notice templates, fill them in for redevelopment of your paddock to multiple flats / bail hostel etc, use the name of a fictitious development company, make sure to include access through the bit in question and a new spur road, post them up and relax.
There is a legal process to stop up (unregister) highway. Can you find any order or application? If your land was requiring access via this highway then you would have a grievance as you as the owner of the land that benefits with access should have had the opportunity to object. The only time it can be extinguished without an order is if there is a mistake in the dedication. Contact your highways authority.
You need a solicitor ASAP.
There is a legal process to stop up (unregister) highway. Can you find any order or application? If your land was requiring access via this highway then you would have a grievance as you as the owner of the land that benefits with access should have had the opportunity to object. The only time it can be extinguished without an order is if there is a mistake in the dedication. Contact your highways authority.
You need a solicitor ASAP.
Thanks joefm, that could be useful, I've sent an email to them.
You don't win be going legal as it'll just cost you money and be ignored. You only win by being a bigger c**t if you can live with it.