[Closed] Any signed up for the Army Reserves?

Not really surprising that most folks won't sign up to be cut-price cannon fodder.

In the modern ago of zero-hour contracts and no job security, it does seem odd to expect to build the army on part timers....

the quoted figures for enlistment targets have and always wil be utter pie in the sky. In any one recruiting period, out of 100 applicants we would be lucky to have 12 go through to selection and only a handful of them would pass, and we were/are considered to be the highest recruiters... FR2020 will be a massive balls up failure..

Any signed up for the Army Reserves?

No. As I have an aversion to being shot at for naff all.

The sooner this stupid idea falls on it's arse the better.

Isn't the official Brilliant Plan that everyone that gets laid off from the forces will sign up as a reservist?

Northwind that's the one - "I know you used to be paid to be in the army, and we did fire you, but why not come back and do your old job for nothing?"

I love Government thinking. Somehow omnishambles doesn't seem to be a strong enough word.

Perfectly good idea, when I got laid off by the bank I was really keen to go back as a banking reservist and do the same work for free. But I think they just thought I was going to burn the building down or something.

Not really surprising that most folks won't sign up to be cut-price cannon fodder.

"I know you used to be paid to be in the army, and we did fire you, and cut your pension to the quick but why not come back and do your old job in your spare time for nothing and with no pension entitlement, less equipment, lower standard training (we'll even feed you for free if you're away from your centre)?"

They can properly get ****ed.

Oddly enough two of our heads of department, in Engineering, were laid off as full time employees, then taken back as contractors, then offered full time jobs again, then promoted.

However, I don't work for a very 'normal' company, our last CEO was a complete fruit loop and thought every problem, especially lack of resources, could be resolved by firing people...

could be resolved by firing people...out of a cannon

Finished your sentence for you.

They could kill two birds with one stone and offer illegal immigrants jobs in the Army......

could be resolved by firing people...out of a cannon

Pretty sure he would have done if he could, he was the most unpleasant person I've ever met.

No. As I have an aversion to being shot at for naff all.

This is not true; In 2007 there was a TA chap in Basra looking after 21 Engineer Reg tool store i.e. guarding the shovels, pick axes, etc.

He was some sort of professional in the city and rather than being paid the same (£40 per day?) a regular Sapper gets was on his regular civi basic rate of pay - not only that but as he was Ops his mortgage was frozen so after 1 year active service he had a nice lump sum saved up.

If I wasn't married with kids I'd definately rejoin the TA and volunteer for Ops. I'd also point out that the level and quality of training I receieved from the TA whilst at times patchy was far better than anything I have recieved from a civilian employer before or since and has stood me in good stead over the years.

But, I still think it is a terrible idea for a goverment that is fond of foriegn engagements to come up with a plan to reduce the military right back and expect reservists to fill the gaps.

Didn't the TA used to be regarded as a bit of a doss around, and an excuse to play with guns and stuff, and fly around in helicopters for a few weekends a year on Dartmoor?

Whereas since Blairs imperial crusades, it now means getting shipped straight out to a trench in Helmand Province while people fire mortars at you. Well.... for a brief period until you lose your legs in an IED explosion, then get medevaced back to the motherland to find out that the government don't actually give a shit about you?

Whereas since Blairs imperial crusade

It's not his fault God told him to kill all the people with different coloured skin....

Whereas since Blairs imperial crusades, it now means getting shipped straight out to a trench in Helmand Province while people fire mortars at you. Well.... for a brief period until you lose your legs in an IED explosion, then get medevaced back to the motherland to find out that the government don't actually give a shit about you?

+ several

I guess in the 'old days', when Britishers fought for popular causes and didn't mind dying for the motherland, the take-up would have been higher.

Now, it's beans for a maiming in an unpopular no-sense war that we don't care about.

I reckon in the 'old days' people saw the role of the Ministry of Defense as providing defense for the UK against foreign aggression, not fighting wars in far flung countries at the behest of the US government.

It really is time they reverted back to the pre-1964 term and referred to "the War Office". Doesn't the Trade Description Act cover misnamed government departments ?

Surely in the [i]really old[/i] days, crusades were all the rage...

Now, it's beans for a maiming in an unpopular no-sense war that we don't care about.

What we need is a proper war that the country can really get behind. Spain seems the ideal choice.

The 'old days' I'm talking about was when we valiant Britishers had big guns and the foreign chaps had sticks.

Edit: IanMunro - could we take Spain, though? They're all pretty angry at the mo.

They're all pretty angry at the mo.

Attack between 12pm and 2pm, and we might stand a chance.

'Course we already own the Costas, giving us the perfect attack springboard – presuming we can gather efficiently at 11.45 without the Spaniards sussing our ruse.

could we take Spain, though?

Yeah, no problem. They've only enough money left for 2 bullets per soldier.

The 'old days' I'm talking about was when we valiant Britishers had big guns and the foreign chaps had sticks.

To be fair it's not much different today. Ever since Vietnam US governments have been very careful about who they pick fights with, small and very weak being the preferred adversary. And we just fight wars which the US tells us to fight. The predator drones are the " big guns" of today and IED are the "sticks" which the foreign chaps now use.

IED are the "sticks" which the foreign chaps now use.

Now that's a pretty scary stick.

Predator drones are pretty scary big guns.

but why not come back and do your old job for nothing?"

I would assume that the idea of being a reservist is far less attractive when there's a bloody good chance of being called into service and sent somewhere really ****ing dangerous.

[url= http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Rates_of_Pay_TA.pdf ]TA PAY[/url]

You do get paid - seems quite a few of you think it's done for nothing...

Just as a point of order, don't reservists get daily rates? (I might be very wrong).

You're quite correct, however the daily rates are very poor (as little as £36 for a private or equiv). The regs get their dayrate over 7 days/week so the comparison is squint. People aren't going to join for the money; that's for sure.

I would assume that the idea of being a reservist is far less attractive when there's a bloody good chance of being called into service and sent somewhere really **** dangerous.

dont know about TA, but i know a hell of a lot of young people are joining the regulars.
my son joined up in march, my daughter goes for selection to Glencorse next week. also 5 lads my son grew up with also are now regulars.
a lot of youngesters have **** all to look forward to job wise in the uk nowadays, and a career in the army is quite achievable for them, with a not to bad wage to boot.

it is easy to be negative and bitter and twisted from behind the keyboard in a nice office.....some kids/people dont have that luxury.

it is easy to be negative and bitter and twisted from behind the keyboard in a nice office.....some kids/people dont have that luxury.

Well, in a thread about the Government's Army Reserves scheme, the emotions you describe are natural, aren't they?

To clarify:

1. While my feelings towards the armed forces are pretty equivocal, I'm sure a life in the service is a great opportunity for kids who don't have the luxuries of choice.

2. The unpopularity of the Afghan war isn't in dispute, is it?

3. I'm not bitter or twisted and my office isn't even nice. 😥

So, while we probably won't agree on the subject, I wish your family every success in their chosen careers.

I think the biggest flaw in the Reserves strategy is that as modern job security vanishes and things like zero hour contracts become more widespread, being a reserve becomes almost impossible. In the old days of jobs for life, unionised big industry, it was possible to be in the TA and have an employer who accepted it. Now you'd just get fired as soon as they called you up.

Ton. I left school when youth unemployment was at its present levels (and yes, it was Thatchers fault!), and was the only one of my close mates who didn't go into the forces. A couple went in because its what they'd always wanted to do, but in the main its because there were basically no jobs in the decimated Northern towns.

The deal was this - In return for putting your life on the line you got a decent salary, received decent training (which would come in useful when you've left the forces), decent pension etc.

But now it seems that, in the case of wanting to staff the army with reservests, this deal has been completely skewed. So that you'll get very few of the advantages of full time soldiers, but be exposed to exactly the same risks

To me it seems the equivalent of using agency workers instead of full time staff. And judging by the recruitment numbers, I'm not alone.

But good luck to your kids. Some of my mates are still in the mob after 22+ years. They've all seen active service, but they all enjoyed their time in, have been all over the world (not necessarily just to kill people) and all got decent training and qualifications (one jammy sod got a full salary while put through university!). The ones who left walked into good jobs when they did.

That depends on the individual.

Binners, the aim is not to staff the Army with reservists, but to retain a core of, what, 80k full-time professional soldiers and bolster them on ops with an increased number of Reserves. The aim, as far as I can tell, is also for the Reserves to get increased training and to morph into an organisation that can more easily slot into a regular formation when their skills/manpower* is required.

The TA is changing and the name change is, I think, an attempt to reflect that change. The days of going to the TAC for a couple of hours of tarting around with Ptarmigan before heading out for beer are long gone. This is the start of what is hoped to be a better skilled, more highly trained and close-knit Reserve formation.

*dependent on trade.

Binners its not just your legs potentially though. Its also your parts that can be sheared off. This is bad enough for a professional soldier with the help on offer when they are booted out of the army following injury/money that they'll have to live on. If you are a reservist what can a reservist expect? Even worse.

I was a reserve (East of England Reg, now 3 Royal Anglian) and applied for regs (RAF Regiment - so not technically army, but as near as dammit (or not, depending who you talk to!) as well.

Main reason I'm not in is leg injuries that I can't seem to shift (compartment syndrome / shinsplints / whatever you want to call it) that appeared while doing basic training in the reserves.

Why did I want to join? Because I wanted to travel, I wanted to follow the boyhood dream of playing soldiers and I wanted to gain the skills the military offered.

Was I aware of what could happen? Of course. I'm not stupid.

Could I kill someone? I asked myself this before I joined, and while I have no wish to if I needed to I was prepared to.

Why did I leave? Injury aside, I couldn't give it 100%. It deserves 100% and you get more out than you put in, but you have to be committed. I was at a stage where I was moving house, moving towns and had just moved jobs. I had every intention of going back (hence applying for RAF Reg) but body has said no. I had a love/hate relationship with the military, and it's an itch annoyingly I've never scratched properly.

For what it's worth though, I think Hammond is a **** and the idea of expecting the TA to do the job of the regular army is flawed logic. However well-trained and well-equipped the reserves are, they are still just that - reserves.

And this is before starting on the two bloody aircraft carriers we're building, using one for spares and overspending on a Harrier replacement. And stop whispering 'Trident' at the back!

Its certainly an interesting set of priorities. Particularly given the nature of the conflicts we've been (stupidly) involved in since the end of the cold war. Do you think that they're aware the cold war is over at the MOD? It doesn't look like it!

You never know... It appears Putin has noticed we don't have an empire anymore, and he's pee'd off with all those satellite states having proper elections and leaving Mother Russia...

[url= http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Rates_of_Pay_TA.pdf ]Have just looked at the TA rates of pay posted by mrlebowski[/url].

Is that it? FFS. That IS the same as being paid nothing.

£44.61 per day for a private?

£76.44 per day for sergeant?

Not worth it even for the senior commissioned officers.

And you can keep the cr@ppy tax free 'bounty'. W00t. That's really something to write home about.

You wouldn't be prepared to be bombed and shot at by suicidal medieval nutjobs, in some god-forsaken hell-hole, for forty-odd quid a day?

Picky bastard! No wonder this countries going to the dogs! 😉

This is the start of what is hoped to be a better skilled, more highly trained and close-knit Reserve formation.

This is exactly what's happening in fact. Should be interesting.

I think the biggest flaw in the Reserves strategy is that as modern job security vanishes and things like zero hour contracts become more widespread, being a reserve becomes almost impossible. In the old days of jobs for life, unionised big industry, it was possible to be in the TA and have an employer who accepted it. Now you'd just get fired as soon as they called you up.

Almost every other Western nation has a far higher percentage of part time to full time in their military - the UK was out of step with what has been proven to work across the Western world. It is a very effective mix if done properly, so the MoD was hard pushed to argue anything else, especially with reducing budgets.
As for your 'get fired' remark. There is a lot of legal protection surrounding Reserve personnel who have a lot of job protection if called up.
Many sensible employers see the huge advantages of having Reserve personnel on the books and usually support them. Lots of the additional skills and responsibilities they pick up when on duty are useful in business. It is even actively encouraged for employers to engage with the MoD:

[url= http://www.sabre.mod.uk/ ]http://www.sabre.mod.uk/[/url]

Is that it? FFS. That IS the same as being paid nothing.

I think they want people who like having their legs blown off by IEDs and then being abandoned, rather than people who are just in it for the money.....

It is even actively encouraged for employers to engage with the MoD:

I wonder how many actually do though....

This is exactly what's happening in fact. Should be interesting.

They need to [i]significantly[/i] increase the training budgets. It wasn't so long ago that the govt tried to crush the TA; severely limited MTDs (are they still limited?), and a whole month off wasn't it?
My memory was generally rushed (and resulting poor quality) training, and that was in a very well regarded unit.

At the end of the day, the TA are a lot better and experienced than they ever were before but most will freely admit that they're no substitute for full time professionals (which is how they're being shaped).

I wonder how many actually do though....

I have no idea at all, but this might be of use to you:

[url= http://www.sabre.mod.uk/Employers/Supportive-Employers/Employers-who-have-publicly-pledged-their-support#.UgkKzaz3Pb8 ]http://www.sabre.mod.uk/Employers/Supportive-Employers/Employers-who-have-publicly-pledged-their-support#.UgkKzaz3Pb8[/url]

most will freely admit that they're no substitute for full time professionals (which is how they're being shaped)

I'd counter that. Most with recent operational experience will say that there are good and bad in every Unit in the Armed Forces, and the good Reservists who have been on ops are as good as their oppos. Many seem to prefer having augmentees in the regular Unit than deploying reserve Formed Units. This seems to bring out the best in people and ensure that the integration of FT and PT starts erly in the work up training.

and the good Reservists who have been on ops are as good as their oppos.

That's a bold statement!
Not my experience, and "are" should be substituted for "were". Once not doing the job 7 days/week and going back part time, skillfade sets in very quickly. You also generally find that the TA bods don't do as many tours, and who can blame them with a 18 month turn around? They have their family and proper jobs to think about.

Many seem to prefer having augmentees in the regular Unit than deploying reserve Formed Units.

This is also done to bring them on a bit.
I stand by my comment; they're no substitute for full time professionals. They're just not.

Job protection, yes we've all heard about that in the TA.... Sabre are effing useless when it comes to support and dispute. I seem to remember coming off tour wit my middle management job turned into middle toilets cleaning to teach me a lesson, don't worry though I got the company back by slicing their maarket share at a competitor....

A friend of mine was recently selected for redundancy after 15 years, 3 days before his in service pension date... Then invited to join the reserves recently. You can imagine his response I'm sure

In that 15 years he'd pretty much done nothing other than fight in yer actual shooty foreign wars.

they're no substitute for full time professionals. They're just not.

That's a bold statement given the breadth of roles across the Armed Forces. In some areas they are worse, some are equal and some are better. You also have Sponsored Reservists in certain areas who do the same job, just pull a uniform on when needed.

Workup training has been very mission and theatre-specific for a long time now. It also starts very early to ensure everyone is at the same speed. Having attended several post-deployment conferences at Sandhurst over a few turns of the HERRICK handle, I found the regulars of all ranks mostly singing the praises of their augmentees.

That's a bold statement given the breadth of roles across the Armed Forces.

I spent the last 3.5 years working for Land Equipment and talking to the Brown Jobs. It was an eye-opener. However, it did mean I worked on a daily basis with those suppporting the teeth arms.
The conferences were held at Sandhurst and those talking were troops just rotating back from AFG, every rank represented. We spent more time talking to those with 3 stripes and less because we knew where truths would come from.

Just to clear up the pay thing - when you are training or on annual camp etc you will get roughly the same pay as a regular soldier of the same rank. If you are mobilised for ops then the MOD will match your civilian pay (up to £250k a year) plus you get you tax free tour bonus of around £5k I think it is.

Not convinced on the pay still. If Rockhopper is right then:

Option (A) get paid the same as I do now for being shot at, bombed etc (oh, but with a 5k bonus) and with diminished career prospects when I come back from 'ops' because of the time spent away from work as against my 'colleagues' who stayed here and maintained their contacts etc.

OR

Option (B) get paid the same as I do now, don't get shot at/bombed and maintain career prospects. But no 5k bonus.

Now I put it like that, I'm sold 😕

Now I put it like that, I'm sold

It's OK. Your country needs you to stay in sales.

The Armed Forces, in whatever guise, are not for everyone.

Just not getting what the incentive to sign up is?

Well you do get to play with guns....

Just not getting what the incentive to sign up is?

Fair enough. Some probably wouldn't understand what you get from your job / lifestyle. Like I said, it isn't for everyone.

Yes you get to travel- Who are we invading next?

Free travel and guns, what's not too like.

Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....

Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....

Jest yee not, good sir.

guns

Unless they outsource the travel bit to Ryanair.....

At somepoint in the future the [s]Army[/s] a Politician will deem that if you are not on operations you should be classed as 'on standby' and paid half your basic wages.

Travelling to and from a conflict will be taken out of any annual leave you have due.

Bonuses will be paid for each kill and if you lose a leg you may be required to leave ASAP.

(Its only a few steps away from now).

Zero hours soldiering 😆

Hora - have you ever thought of a career in a Westminster Think Tank? Seriously, they'd love you with suggestions like that 😉

Binners, ever fire a gun?

Jesus they are thoroughly scary things 😯

The Armed Forces arent for everyone.

You either get it or you don't & never the twain shall meet.

Arguing over it is like a broken pencil.

Agreed!. I used to do a lot of target shooting

You've got to have plums like water melons to be at the wrong end of the ones in the hands of beardy, shouty, explodey, Allah-obsessed nut-jobs 😯

We used to take turns revolving/changing the targets in a deep trench at the end of a range where we were firing .303's. I remember then thinking 'oo this is a bit hairy' and they weren't shooting at [i]us[/i].

The Armed Forces arent for everyone.

You either get it or you don't & never the twain shall meet.

Arguing over it is like a broken pencil.

I've suffered from severe Migraines since the age of 15. If my son wants to join do you think in any shape or form I'd stop him? No. It is going to be one box that I wanted to tick that I never will have.

Am I too late to say I really REALLY hate Tony ****ing Blair.

It's never too late to hate Tony Blair!

No you will never be too late.

Don't diss Saint Tony. He's continuing on his life's work. Just like God told him too. Bringing peace to the Middle East.

And after a slightly bumpy start, with the whole 'invading everywhere because George said so' thing, I think we can all agree its all now going really well. The whole region is like a sea of tranquility

and hes not rich at all, hes living a saintly existence.

Bringing peace to the Middle East.

I assume 'bringing peace' is a euphemism for continuing the Good fight / Crusade to rid the world of the Arabs....

S'OK - Davey C worships the hallowed ground he walks on.

We're in safe hands. 🙂

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/owen-jones-its-time-to-demolish-the-myth-about-tony-blair-7808282.html

I've put all my money into a savings account, my son can have it when he's 25 IF he doesn't have anything to do with any armed forces. I'm hoping that greed will keep him on my side.

Chap at work has been in Helmand this year trying to help build water infrastructure as part of the reservists. Everytime they build something that will bring any benefit to the locals it gets blown up and they get shot at, it's a spectacular waste of life, effort and money.

I've put all my money into a savings account, my son can have it when he's 25 IF he doesn't have anything to do with any armed forces.

If he's that easily persuaded, he's probably not made of the right stuff anyway.

I quite like pictonroad's ruse!

You based in South Liverpool by any chance, PR?