I worked for a company that ceased trading. Entirely their own fault. They decided the usual rules to offer redundancy, notice, holiday and cough up other arrears didn't apply to them. Having worked there quite a few years it's not an insignificant sum of money to me. So I took them to a tribunal and won. In the meantime the owner died and the company has been transferred to a relative. Among various attempts to make contact I sent a letter to this person and got a rather predictable “no longer at this address”. There are no other staff now and no one at what’s left of the company’s physical locations. It’s clear the person knows but is trying to ignore me while selling off assets and taking the money out of the business. This is also the person's inheritance assuming the company has no other significant debts. It’s currently with high court enforcement, who in updates so far seem entirely useless and always one step behind. Details also sent for the government to fine and name the company if unpaid.
Just hoping someone here has ideas I’ve missed?
I can't offer and help I'm afraid but I really hope you pin down the person trying to evade their responsibility here. Completely contemptible.
I'd chance it and go round there to collect in person. Anything you can get would be a bonus
That's tempting, but about 250 miles away. With a good chance of a punch on the nose being my only souvenir.
You were employed by the company not the owner (assuming the company was a limited company) so it's not relevant that they died.
Sadly, if you've got a high court notice against the company that's probably all you can do. If the relative is ignoring the high court enforcement officers they'll be adding to their eventual bill but the enforcement officer can't force entry to seize goods for civil claims. They can take stuff from outside.
You could talk to a lawyer about getting a winding up order against the company as you're a creditor with a debt that they're unable to pay. If you're successful you will be behind other creditors such as tax but ahead of the relative as new owner.
the enforcement officer can’t force entry to seize goods for civil claims
Yes this seems to be the problem with closed premises that have no staff. For some reason I thought they would bust the door open and take what they need or change the locks until the company pays. Most disappointing that this isn't so. Not sure they've done any more than send the same letters I have and go to peer through the windows.
Do you think there is a bank account with cash in it still in the name of the debtor?
Do you think there is property still held in the name of the debtor?
Its possible, in some circumstances, to freeze money in a bank account or have a charge put on property (so it can't be sold without you being paid).
I'd suggest you want legal advice before trying to do either. That may also be useful because if the family member is the executor and not doing their duties properly you would also want legal advice, and if they are not the executor you probably want to be talking to them. If there is a limited co involved you want to be making sure it doesn't get wound up without your £, and if you need to wind it up to get the assets know where to start.
That may also be useful because if the family member is the executor and not doing their duties
I’m not sure this has anything to do with being an executor - the new owner of the business is just that, they aren’t then the executor of any will - that’s a different matter altogether.
No idea what's in bank accounts but the company definitely own property, or they did until very recently. Looks like at least one building has been sold in the last month. An added benefit of the pandemic is this process has taken 6 months longer than it would have before. If it hadn't the original owner would still be alive, contactable, working at the registered office and nothing would have been sold. Not that he'd have willingly paid up of course...
I believe the new owner/director is one of the main (or only) beneficiaries of the estate so not paying up would directly benefit this person. Quite possible they're also the executor.
Are you able to get hold of a company secretary or even their accountant?
Some advice here - but people get away with this sort of crap all the time 🙁
Speak to a solicitor. Most will outline your options FOC
If there’s property to be sold a court may be willing to put a legal charge on the property to prevent it being sold without the money owed to the OP being paid as part of the sale. A good solicitor should be able to advise on this.
I hate to say it, but give up and move on.
I had nearly exactly the same scenario with a previous employer about 18 years ago. I won the employment tribunal for constructive dismissal but the only way of enforcing it was to sue, and that’s kinda hard when you don’t have any money. Even if I’d been successful in that, there was no guarantee they’d actually pay out.
I had to write off £12k in unpaid salary. All I got was about 500 quid from the Redundancy Payments service.
My consolation is that in the intervening time I’ve been vastly more successful than the owner of that business.
Has the company filed any recent accounts on Companies House? Any assets on the balance sheet? Have you checked the persons of significant control (shareholders)? https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/
You need to do this: https://www.gov.uk/wind-up-a-company-that-owes-you-money
You will need a solicitor and possibly an accountant to establish the quantum of your claim and guide you through the process.
Essentially if the company has no assets then you're out of luck.
I’m not sure this has anything to do with being an executor – the new owner of the business is just that, they aren’t then the executor of any will – that’s a different matter altogether.
I think it very much depends on the facts and circumstances. My assumption was person, P, was the main shareholder of a Ltd Co, and one of or possibly the sole director of the same (although the OP doesn't say that). P had died. If its a Ltd Co it still owes the money to the OP. P's Estate will need to be disposed of in accordance with any will, or the law if there was no will. That is rarely a quick process even without Ltd co's involved - so if the successor, S, has become the shareholder quickly it would suggest to me that the executor may not have properly executed their duties. If S and the executor are one and the same, then it becomes more concerning. Now S may have been appointed as a director (without becoming a shareholder) whilst the estate is dealt with - that would likely be reasonable, but it may not be reasonable for S to begin disposing of the Company's assets where they have a material effect on the value of the Estate. There probably are circumstances where that is a legitimate and correct thing to do - but there will be circumstances where it could definitely be dodgy as hell (e.g. if S transferred the assets (or proceeds) out the company to a different company he owns, devaluing the company to avoid IHT!). It needs way more detail than the OP has provided and likely than the OP currently has.
May well try that insolvency service misconduct idea to see if they're interested. Hadn't seen that before. Then talk to a solicitor to find out if anything can be done such as winding up that doesn't cost a big chunk or more than I'm likely to gain. I did check with the insolvency service on claiming from them but nothing apart from redundancy is covered while the company is considered active, despite not having traded for nearly 2 years. The good news is no time limit for claiming now I've got the tribunal judgment. Just be rather tedious if the company is still active in another 2 years, or indefinitely.
Accounts are long overdue on Companies House. Nothing of interest recently except strike-off action discontinued and changing of owner to this person. As far as I can see...owner, director, shareholder, secretary, executor all the same person. Who I know was never previously involved with the company.
Somewhat difficult trying to find out full details of what's going on when anyone involved is trying to keep me in the dark. But also tried not to put anything too specific on here just in case.
What about a debt collection agency. Not a nice one either?
You need to be speaking to ACAS before anyone else.
They'll outline your process and give you guidance.
Went through ACAS first before the tribunal. Unfortunately ACAS are unable to help much unless the employer is willing to engage. They really need to be given more authority. In my case it was just a waste of a month while they generate a certificate with a number to take to the tribunal.