You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I know settlements are very confidential and NDA'd so I'm just looking for reassurance and generalities.
I work for a global megacorp and my department has been in a state of flux for 18 months - mostly caused by my very difficult boss, who has told me to seek new opportunity on multiple occasions.
I know the writing is on the wall now with the restructure, and to be honest I want to torpedo my boss and ensure the very best settlement for myself that I can.
Wait for redundo and be passive, or go a bit gonzo?
Any stories of successful outcomes or sage advice gratefully received.
I had a boss that wanted to change my role significantly to one that I didn't want to do for health reasons amongst other reasons
I knew they were incompetent as was the HR
I let them hang themselves. I was entitled to £400 and a month's notice. After 7 months on Garden leave I walked away with £7000.
my experience is that companies usually muck up redundancy. let them do it, threaten tribunal unless they make it worth your while to shut up and go away
it's a gamble but one that worked for me and I have seen work for others
Wait for redundo and be passive, or go a bit gonzo?
Any stories of successful outcomes or sage advice gratefully received.
I was there a few years ago
I made an attempt to oust my boss. He is possibly the worst human being I've ever met.
Unfortunately it didn't work.
A few months later I got called to a meeting with my boss and an HR person. Piece of paper face down on the desk.
Standard blurb they have to come out with and then shown the piece of paper with a six figure sum on it if I went away quietly, based on 15 years service.
Took the money and ran. Best thing I ever did.
)
my experience is that companies usually muck up redundancy.
And mine. Just because the HR department have successfully managed to use a procedure that is technically wrong before doesn’t mean that it will work again on someone with better legal (union) backup.
I don't think a redundancy and a settlement agreement are the same thing? You get a settlement agreement when they can't get rid of you by legitimate means.
This is more fully documented elsewhere on STW but I went through this a couple of years back. We were TUPEd as a department, two weeks prior to completion my mum fell ill and died five months later. I lost my mind, was off work for four months, my return to work was basically "don't bother." They offered me what I was legally entitled to (holiday pay and all that) plus £2k. For 16 years' service. I got a (as it turned out, shit) lawyer, After a bit of to me to you I accepted an offer of £10k. I could probably have pushed for more but it was coming up to Christmas and I just wanted to draw a line under it.
Standard blurb they have to come out with and then shown the piece of paper with a six figure sum on it if I went away quietly, based on 15 years service.
Dayum!!
... the full story is here. I used a pseudonym at the time as it involved legal matters.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/off-topic/any-employment-lawyers-in-the-house/
My settlement agreement was a little different, in circumstance, if nothing else, as effectively I requested it, though I had no idea what one was until it happened. I was the GM with 2 deputy GMs, which I'd always maintained to the boss was 1 too many but historical circs dictated this was the set-up.
After a number of incidents involving the 2 deputy GMs, the MD decided that I was right, and in order to make the maths work, put us all at risk of redundancy, simply to get to 2 out of 3.
I was never in the frame to be made redundant, but after 2 days of worrying myself sick, I phoned the boss and asked for a meeting. 2 days later the details of the settlement agreement were provided - far more generous than any redundancy would have been esp. as I wasn't intended to be the one who went; I had to employ a lawyer - which they had to pay for; and I walked away from a job/industry I'd come to loathe. MD was gutted as I'd been the one to go, but he could have just made it easier and put the 2 deputy GMs at risk...I'm still glad to this day he didn't!
Walking away was the best thing I ever did (though if you ask me, I will say I miss the bonus 😉).
Took me a moment there to realise you didn't mean Game Master.
That's OK! I have no idea what you said either ^^ 😕
TLDR - My advice is to contact ACAS and see what they say. Then, if necessary, try and find someone who can recommend an Employment Law Specialist (PM me if you want and I will try and dig out the details)
Similar to Cougar, my employer was bought and some people were TUPE'd, some were made redundant and a few of us had 'special arrangements'.
Also like Cougar I had the death of an immediate family member to cope with and was juggling other pressures so was really only clinging on to my sanity by a thread.
My 'special arrangement' involved applying for a new internal job with a significant salary reduction (plus the loss of other major benefits). If I rejected the offer I was considered to have resigned.
I tried to stomach it for a bit, but found I was still doing my old job, but by a new name as well as looking after more customers. I contacted ACAS and an Employment Law Specialist. I was given a six point plan by the employment lawyer and an Industrial Tribunal reference ID by ACAS.
After some heated conference calls (supported remotely by the Employment Law Specialist) I was offered the amount I would have received in redundancy plus an extra ~30% for the "emotional strain".
I had to sign an NDA/Settlement agreement and the new employer had to pay for a solicitor to look over the offer/agreement.
Not fun.
If you do ever have to speak to a lawyer regarding a settlement agreement make sure you take multiple copies of the agreement with you and when you are done signing it leave the building ASAP instead of chatting with lawyer on the way out. You’ll otherwise find you’ve been charged an extortionate rate for photocopying and a friendly chat
Some companies offer settlement instead of redundancy. It is cleaner and less complicated.
You end up in about the same place,maybe slightly better off.
Otherwise there is sort of a standard amount so I hear. About three months an payment in lieu of notice. It can depend on circumstances. Basically things need to be going wrong and both parties need to agree it's the best option for a quick clean break. If redundancies are on the cards then they might just take that approach and deal with it in bulk. It's a lot of work to get a settlement done. And costs a lot as lawyers need to get involved.
I hear Acas has some very good advice.
I know the writing is on the wall now with the restructure, and to be honest I want to torpedo my boss and ensure the very best settlement for myself that I can.
I'd suggest you pick one of those objectives - I've seen a situation like that backfire where getting the toxic boss out became the mission, and he ended up getting the very good settlement agreement whilst the underlings went into headcount reduction under the new manager on stat terms and those that survived that, then realised whilst the boss was useless that was possible because the organisation was screwed up.
Some companies offer settlement instead of redundancy. It is cleaner and less complicated.
From a company point of view, they can backfill your role after a settlement but cannot do so after a redundancy. Redundancy means that your role no longer exists whereas a settlement means "will you just **** off and not sue us?"
I have observed a team band together and get rid of their aggressive and incompetent boss (not me, this time!). It was politically difficult but upper management realised that if everyone was complaining then it wasn't just a personality clash between a boss and an underling.
Hard to say whether it's better to seek a payout to leave or wait for a formal redundancy process before making an offer.
I don't think a redundancy and a settlement agreement are the same thing? You get a settlement agreement when they can't get rid of you by legitimate means.
Correct. My experience is that employers try to use redundancy, make a mess of it then have use a settlement agreement to make you shut up and go away
Someone very close to me went through a process with a very large employer. They were able to claim constructive dismissal (have a look at that) and walk away with a full year's salary. If they'd had the stomach for it could probably have got more.
My advice would be - avoid HR and gather as much documentation as possible. Then go to a lawyer.
This person had every email, notes from phonecalls, etc. When they went to an employment lawyer the lawyer pretty much laughed and said this will be easy. It was still very stressful, but it worked.
Annoyingly, the senior person that was the cause of all the trouble was forced to resign and he went public claiming it was due to other things and was all over the national media.
... On the other hand a very good friend of mine is currently unemployed because he took all the grievances from his colleagues about his senior to try and be the diplomat. The senior was offended and he ended up getting axed.
My wife had walked away twice from jobs with around six months pay each time due to the company's **** ups. We have settlement agreements at my workplace and many walk away with about a years pay - settlements and severance.
I know the writing is on the wall now with the restructure, and to be honest I want to torpedo my boss and ensure the very best settlement for myself that I can.
As above it's one or the other, get what you can out of them and let your boss fester.
A great bit of advice I was given once was "never say or write down anything which you wouldn't be happy to hear read back to you at a tribunal". Unfortunately the person who gave me that advice didn't listen to herself and after witnessing me being removed from the premises in an ambulance during a massive and very well signalled breakdown, she sent me a letter accusing me of faking it all in order to put in a personal injury claim. My solicitor said it was one of the easiest cases ever and it cost them £60k to get rid of me.
That was trumped by the same solicitor a year later when a friend of mine went to him after she was called into a meeting and summarily dismissed for her "unhelpful facial expressions" during a meeting. That cost them a few quid!
Having said that, when she demonstrated the facial expression, I think they might have had a point 🙂