[Closed] Any DAC users out there? Thoughts?

I run my mp3 player using digital out to an ifi iDSD Nano then to an ifi iCan Micro then to a set of beyerdynamic T90's. Play only lossless files and it sounds blooming marvellous.

Works work equally well to a hi fi bit no point doing it if you are playing mp3 files. Need to be flac, ogg or apple lossless files.

Plenty of dacs to choose from but the ifi stuff is brilliant...

I use an Audioquest dragonfly dac out of my macbook into my Rotel / Mission setup and its definitely better than straight out the headphone socket. Much more clarity and definition between sounds. Can also use it with headphones which sounds great too! Cheap too.

Hi bitrate MP3 will also benefit - you will have less noise floor than from your headphone socket for a start.

I have a couple of decent ones and they sound excellent.

Bought a cheap DAC off Ebay for my shed and it make a signifcant difference.

Bought a cheap DAC off Ebay for my shed and it make a signifcant difference.

Any links to the one you have? I'm thinking of giving one a go.

Look for the Fiio ones, they seem to do well. Check on Amazon for the reviews.

Also M-Audio is a well known and reliable brand.

I've thought about trying the dragonfly, but also tempted by an Arcam iDac - twice the price but is it twice as good?

I have a beresford caiman 2 which is excellent. It replaced an eBay job "valab" which was also good. Would be happy to move that on for £30 if you wanted to try one. Both much better than straight from the computer.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/499024/fs-valab-nos-dac-140-shipped

I got a Behringer UCA202 for my Raspberry Pi. While it appears cheap and cheerful, if you Google it there is a big review from some audiophile type who found it superior to more expensive DACs.

Another Beresford Caimain DAC here. Its a cracking bit of kit. Mines been replaced by the Bushmaster MKII and Caiman MKII. Both meant to be fantastic.

I know Flac etc are better than MP3 but is it really not worth bothering with a DAC if I'll mainly be playing iTunes downloads etc?

Unless your bitrate is really low then yes

My beresford TC dac thingy went bad (odd crackling/distortion) replaced it with a musical fidelity V-dac II which I'm impressed with, an improvement on the Mac converter which is quite good for a computer.
If your amp/speakers/headphones are low-end I would think twice about a dac as an upgrade though.

Hi-fi is good quality, so I'm thinking DAC is worth the investment if there would be a noticeable improvement.
What about using Pure software on the MacBook plus a DAC, or would that be overkill?

What's your budget? Have a read of hifi +'s reviews of ifi kit.

They usually review the very expensive end of hifi but were completely bowled over by the iDSD Nano (£165). Plays a host of host formats also.

I'm listening to it now and its brilliant. Runs of an internal battery so can hook it up to an android phone via an otg cable and have decent playback on the move also...

Richer Sounds were doing the irDac for £249, but it looks like I've missed the boat on that one. £250 max

Any links to the one you have? I'm thinking of giving one a go.

It's the Behringer UCA202 as mentioned above.

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-UCA202-U-Control-low-latency-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI ]Behringer UCA202[/url]

Well worth £20.

[url= http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/behringer-uca202-review.html ]An interesting review here[/url]

For that money the ifi iDAC Micro.

Ifi btw are a subsidiary of AMR who make some wildly expensive gear and the technology has trickled down to the ifi range.

Slight thread hijack . Hope the op don't mind me asking in here?

I use my MacBook Pro from the line out to a cheap lepai 2020+ amp which I bought years ago which is connected to some kef speakers. I've used it like this for a few years and thiught it sound decent but I'm still using the macs crappy sound card right?

If I was to get a behringer UCA202 and connect it to the lepai amp then to the speakers would that improve my audio quality. Never heard of the UCA202 before I wonder whether this would improve my setup?

UCA202 DAC -(RCA) -> Lepai 2020+ amp -> kef speakers

^^ or am I best to get rid of the amp completely?

or am I best to get rid of the amp completely?

You still need an amp. The DAC just takes a digital signal and converts to an analogue line out signal, which most older amps need.

IMO you would notice an improvement in sound quality even with something as cheap as UCA202 DAC.

I run a Beresford Caiman 2 connected to my apple tv via the optical out.

Beresford is connected to my amp which then allows me to stream my iphone direct.

Sound quality is actually rather good.

@ pedropete - if you're using a Mac as your source, then just get an Airport Express to operate as your dac. It's actually a v good dac for the price and also enables you to AirPlay music from your Mac (or you can operate over ethernet.

If you need confidence in this approach, Google will throw up dove reviews and even TonyL who runs pinkfishmedia runs one in just the way you're describing.

FWIW I use the same to stream from iTunes on my iMac. Note that all my CDs are ripped to ALAC and the Airport Express streams at up to CD quality (16/44.1). You can get into the whole streaming software thing, though IMO it just takes it too far into the laws of diminishing returns, hence why I stick with iTunes.

Still doesn't sound as good as my LP12 though....

OMITN

You can also use the Airport Express on a Windows PC/laptop and/or Android phone.

Another ifi fan here.

+1 on the behringer UCA202.

Think I heard about it on here originally.

How good will iTunes with files saved as 256kbps aac sound through something like the arcam rpac usb dac?
Listening through the headphone jack on my pc isn't that great, noticeably lower quality than Spotify with sound quality set at 'extreme' through my Denon amp via Google chromecast audio.
I'd like something similar quality for iTunes, is a USB dac for £100 going to be worth paying for?

I use a classic Squeezebox with Burr Brown DAC playing FLAC files hooked up to my amp.

Though my current amp has built in streaming and FLAC support. It's probably just as good or better, but I like my Squeezebox. The thing even has digital out for the amp, but purist in me feels it's still worth having that DAC and fancy analogue cables to feed to the amp.

Headphones, you want to be looking at something that does crossfeed to create a more natural stereo sound instead of the in head (and some find tiring) sound of headphones. For headphones I still use an old MP3 player but run Rockbox on it which has decent audio controls, and supports crossfeed.

Here goes..

Virtually all modern DAC's are based on the same architecture. Also, Apple devices are known for having exceptionally good DAC's built in (something the audiophool world would rather you didn't believe).

Is the output of the Mac just a headphone socket? If you buy an outboard DAC you will probably convince yourself there's a difference but the chances are there'll be nothing discernible.

The below is an interesting article based on proper reasoning and measurement which evaluates the built in DAC of an iPhone 5, as an example. It's worth a read. If you want to spend money then aim to eventually upgrade to some proper active speakers.

The HiFi world is largely cobblers I'm afraid , I'll expect the usual abuse for saying so..

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

No, I was thinking this the entire thread.

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all, rather using a straight-through digital connection from the Mac to the amp? Sound card is irrelevant then, what's appearing at the amp is the same data bits that are in the audio file. Does the Mac not have any sort of digital output or something?

z:ero DAC headphones - very nice they are

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all,

You have to use a DAC at some point.

Digital inputs on hifi amps are not that common as they don't have onboard DAC's.

Most CD decks will have an onboard DAC but unless it's very high end then even a cheap external DAC will probably perform better.

That cheap Behringer performs really well. Buy one for £20 and try it.

Ken Rockwell is a bit of a flat earth kind of guy though and whilst I read his stuff I don't agree with 90% of what he writes and that stuff on DAC's is nonsense.

I'd be happy to be blind tested accordingly...

No, I was thinking this the entire thread.

Why on earth are you using a DAC at all, rather using a straight-through digital connection from the Mac to the amp? Sound card is irrelevant then, what's appearing at the amp is the same data bits that are in the audio file. Does the Mac not have any sort of digital output or something?

Digital inputs on hifi amps are not that common as they don't have onboard DAC's.

Danny - can you please explain why the Ken Rockwell stuff is nonsense?

I spent 4 yrs doing a BSc Hons in audio and music technology and it all makes perfect sense to me.

People are very reluctant to accept that the "HiFi" world is largely rubbish, fuelled by marketing. I also spent a bit of time working for Arcam and learned all about what (or rather didn't) separate their low end stuff from their super duper £££££ stuff.

People are very reluctant to accept that the "HiFi" world is largely rubbish, fuelled by marketing. I also spent a bit of time working for Arcam and learned all about what (or rather didn't) separate their low end stuff from their super duper £££££ stuff.

I'm interested to know how you think the hifi world is rubbish?

Are you trying to say that there's not much difference in the sound that different systems produce?

From Ken's 'review'

I have not performed my Acid Test where I A/B the iPhone 5's output playing a CD recorded via iTunes as an ordinary AAC file versus a real, dedicated CD player playing the same physical CD

Of course it is very difficult to setup such a test with the levels and timing matched

I suspect the iPhone 5 will also pass the Acid Test; in any case, it sounds great subjectively as a source.

So he hasn't done any A/B testing, admits that the set up isn't a true test set up and then closes by saying 'but I'm sure I'm right even though I haven't yet proved it.

He concludes the whole piece by saying 'don't confuse the the iphone with those crappy MP3 players - hang on Ken - I though you said there was no difference in playback devices.

And I'm not comparing it to a 'crappy MP3 player', I'm comparing it to a decent set up consisting of source, dac, amp, headphones.

Ken is an Apple fanboi ultimately and he spouts a great degree of bollocks on this subject and also cameras - another area he can be spot on but often just likes to think he's right.

I have used an ipod 5 direct and as a source for a DAC and I currently use a Sony NWZ-A10 as a source. The A10 can play back high res files natively so have done A/B comparisons with it as a source direct in to a headphone amp and also feeding a high res enabled DAC (ifi iDSD Nano) using the same headphones and the same high res FLAC encoded files and would challenge anyone not to be able to tell the difference.

Jamz - I'm saying things will sound different yes but that ultimately most domestic HiFi is flawed in it's approach to achieving the ultimate in sound quality.

I appreciate that some people prefer the "sound" of one manufacturer to another and that's fine. What I object to is pseudo science where claims are made without any scientific basis.

Danny - surely the points you raise are a good thing? He's done pretty scientific quantitative analysis but freely admit he's not done ABX testing. HiFi manufacturers usually just spout meaningless info out of context , for example speaker frequency response charts (which are entirely meaningless without knowing how phase correlates).

As for the OP - he may find he prefers the sound of a new DAC but I'm sure it'd provide little or no increase in fidelity or quality over the in built one.

It's not that I'm a massive Apple fan per se but more that domestic HiFi and what magazines would have you believe bears little resemblance to the true science of audio and indeed what goes on in the studio recording/ production world.

There's an awful lot behind my claims that I'm sure most people don't want to listen to but have a look on the avi HiFi forum for threads (not just those from Ashley) that are from audio enthusiasts who are largely engineers, for a different perspective.

Just sat listing to Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations; Spotify through Apple TV and a TEAC UD-H01 (Arcam FMJ, Neat speakers). Sounds good to me. Richer Sounds have it at £99 - just rode in and availed myself of the offer. Family all hiding in the kitchen.

djflexure - That TEAC dac looks really cheap at Richer Sounds. Other places are selling it for £300!

As for the OP - he may find he prefers the sound of a new DAC but I'm sure it'd provide little or no increase in fidelity or quality over the in built one.

I don't know about the quality of the sound card/dac in the Mac book but even the cheap £20 external dac made a big difference compared to my cheapy HP laptop headphone socket.

Its definitely a winner. Since I'm on a roll my second tip for the day is Brooklyn Brewery, Sorachi Ace. Goldberg/ Sorachi is a mental combination.

Sorachi Ace

Had one of those in the summer, a present off a US colleague, it was excellent. Never seen for sale in the UK.

My local microbrewery (Purity) stock it. There is at least one more online retailer if you fancy a taste (I think I took the last of Purity's stock before Christmas, but they may have more now).

UPDATE: Eric Clapton - from the Cradle and Sorachi is another mental combination. Hoochie Coochie Man! Wow.

I remember someone on this forum recommending smoking a spliff for enhanced audio pleasure & from what I can remember of my misspent youth & beyond, I would concur. However, I found the side effects of such activity more negative than positive, so I'm looking for the hifi world to provide the answer. Anyway, regardless of the various fors & against, I've pulled the trigger & gone for an Ifi micro DAC. Time will tell if it's snake oil or not.

I'm rather with RopeyReignRider in that over the years there really has been an awful lot of bollocks written and claimed about 'hifi', you only have to refer to any thread where directionality of cables gets mentioned. I used to sell audio kit in the early eighties, when the flat-earthers really came to the fore, there was so much stuff being claimed by supporters of Linn/Naim kit, against anything digital, you'd think just listening to a CD would cause cancer or something.
There was stuff about only listening to music in a room with no other transducers, like digital watches, telephones, TV's, etc, because the speakers or other sound-producing components could adversely affect the sound.
Plenty of people claim there are better sounding music players than the iPod or iPhone, but based on what comparison?
There are so many variables, have the comparisons been done using the exact same music files, with the same bitrate, through the exact same high-end headphones? I've yet to see any review of a variety of players where the comparison is done through, say, a pair of £8-900 pair of Shure or Westone IEMS, with all files from the same known first-generation studio masters.
Even through my supplied EarPods I can hear a huge variation in the sound quality and volume of individual tracks from different albums, with different mastering, all ripped from CD at 320Kb.
If I can hear that sort of difference in the source material at that bitrate, using a basic pair of 'phones, then surely all a DAC is going to do is show up the flaws even more.
Personally, I'd rather invest that sort of money in a really good pair of custom fitted IEM's, in fact I'm looking at some on Massdrop, for $420, instead of $660, I think I'll get more benefit than spending on a DAC.
In the end, though, isn't this all purely subjective?, I've listened to a <£1000 audio system at a big hifi show that kicked the ass out of a system fronted by a Pink Triangle deck that totalled >£10,000; is that down to just my ears, or was the expensive kit actually crap?

RopeyReignRider - Member
People are very reluctant to accept that the "HiFi" world is largely rubbish, fuelled by marketing. I also spent a bit of time working for Arcam and learned all about what (or rather didn't) separate their low end stuff from their super duper £££££ stuff.

Worked for an automotive company that bought into the audio business for a bit and one comment from the CEO was him laughing that he could charge a fortune for the same cheap cables that were used for the car looms, just dressed up with fancy looking connectors.

Thing with the audiophile world is some things are "proven" by science and stats of sorts, and that is enough to convince people, but almost everyone will never be able to tell the difference in a true blind test (I found reviews and audiophile magazines didn't really do them properly blind).

Examples like the jitter argument on CDs and the "difference" between digital cables. Waveforms would be produced showing a microscopic measureable difference with the right equipment and therefore people would buy the better one and be absolutely convinced it sounded better. Reality is the measurable difference makes crap all difference when actually converted into sound, even with the top end speakers, DACs and amps.

And yeah, directional cables! 😆 I actually have some I think on my speaker cables. Obviously electrons do flow better in one direction and make it sound better 😉 (utter BS).

That place I used to work at got me entry to hi-fi shows and so went along, and it had all this crap being pedalled. When it got so bearded folk raving about valves I'd had enough. Yeah, warm sound. Hell, I'll stick my speakers next to a radiator if I want my sound to be warm 😛

When it got so bearded folk raving about valves I'd had enough. Yeah, warm sound.

You can call it "warm" if you like or not. Valve amps sound distinctly different than something made up of solid state components.

Do they sound "better"? I guess that's pretty subjective.

If my old Yamaha does, surely much more modern amps do?

This was my thinking also. I guess the counter argument is, you and I are both looking at A/V receivers rather than "Hi-Fi" amplifiers.

But then we're into the realms of a stereo amp being superior to a surround amp because it's simpler, and I'm no more convinced about that now than I was last week when someone claimed it as fact.

On that note,

Does a 'proper' stereo amp typically not have digital inputs then? I can see the logic spending money on a separate DAC, but I can also see a logic in doing that conversion in-box rather than trailing an analogue signal about the place over lengths of bloody coax.

I bought a Beresford TC-7520 for the living room system and it is great. So good I got a Caymanised one for the office. I am kind of the opinion that once you get beyond a certain threshold, all DACs are pretty indistinguishable from one another. Some introduce a colouration to the sound but I would put them in the below threshold category.

For that reason the inputs, construction, look and price are just as important as the sound when you make a choice.

I can also see a logic in doing that conversion in-box rather than trailing an analogue signal about the place over lengths of bloody coax.

I think things are going that way with people like Devialet making top end kit with everything in a single box. The legacy of mixed digital and analogue sources mean that most amps until recently have expected the head unit to handle the DAC bit. Times are changing though.

The legacy of mixed digital and analogue sources mean that most amps until recently have expected the head unit to handle the DAC bit. Times are changing though.

I think that's exactly it, it's legacy baggage.

Back in the day your sources would be, what, primarily a phono stage. Add a radio and maybe a tape deck if you were so inclined. All analogue.

Then along came CD, the young upstart in all its digital finery. It made sense then to have the digital signal span down to analogue before it hit the amplifier as that's all the existing amplifiers understood. More digital sources followed and so a separate DAC stage was sensible.

Now though, we're in a digital world; analogue sources are a relative rarity, the bastion of those special few who cling to their records in the belief that she sound of frying chips in the background enhances the experience. A separate DAC stage is not only unnecessary, it's nonsensical. You want the DAC to be the last leg of the process, right before the speakers, not two feet away and before amplification takes place. That way madness lies, it doesn't matter how high-end your DAC box is if you're then amplifying any analogue signal degradation and interference.

A separate DAC stage is not only unnecessary, it's nonsensical.

Why? I have a laptop which I use for a lot of stuff. I bought a USB DAC so I could stream FLAC to my decent quality hifi amplifier. Makes a lot of sense to me and sounds pretty good to. Makes a lot economic sense to.

You want the DAC to be the last leg of the process, right before the speakers, not two feet away and before amplification takes place.

I see your point but is it even possible to "amplify" a digital signal? Doesn't the signal have be analogue before you can amplify?

Why? I have a laptop which I use for a lot of stuff. I bought a USB DAC so I could stream FLAC to my decent quality hifi amplifier. Makes a lot of sense to me and sounds pretty good to. Makes a lot economic sense to.

And to my mind that makes perfect sense, if a digital path isn't available. In pure quality terms though I'd have expected something like an S/PDIF connection to batter a USB DAC into a cocked hat.

I see your point but is it even possible to "amplify" a digital signal? Doesn't the signal have be analogue before you can amplify?

A quick Google would suggest that "direct digital" amps do exist, but are unusual. You may well be right that it's not the best approach though, I was mulling over ideas really rather than stating absolute facts.

Well amplifying a 1 still makes it a 1 😉

But amps that do digital input and a DAC are quite common now. More in the AV amp field.

As I mentioned with my Squeezebox set up. I could digital coax out from it and into the amp digital in. The amp then does the DAC operation. It's just the DAC in the box is supposedly quite good so I stick with that, but doubt I'd really be able to tell the difference.

Modern AV amps are also sporting HD audio quality over HDMI. Not just for movies, but for 96/24 HD audio via things like Dolby TrueHD / DTS HD-MA and LPCM, stereo or surround if you like. Regular S/PDIF just can't handle the bandwidth. Decoding is of course in the amp. It's a whopping HD audio DAC in there. However the amps vary massively in quality, but it's less about the DAC but about the optimisations made for home cinema vs audio, but some are truly excellent. Most also can just output direct from the DAC to amp circuit to speaker, bypassing processing.

Well amplifying a 1 still makes it a 1

I'm amazed no-one's selling amps yet that turn a 1 into a 1 in a [i]really big font.[/i]

Most also can just output direct from the DAC to amp circuit to speaker, bypassing processing.

Yeah, my Yam has two options for this, "straight" which AIUI is basically "ignore DSP and play as encoded," and "direct" which is some sort of uber-aggressive disabling of everything. Direct even shuts off most of the front display panel.

My dissertation was on actual digital, Class D amps. Interesting stuff but never seemed to take off...

Interestingly, I've got two setups which are both class D. A Wadia power DAC, with analog REL sub and dynaudio speakers, the other is a set of Vanatoo transparent one digital monitors. To be fair, the vanatoo are 95% as good for about 20% of the price.

I also agree that the majority of the hifi literature is bullshit, and the above article on the iphone 5 dac is a good example. Quantitative measurements, but nothing to compare them with.

The point about quantitative measurements is that they are absolute (measurement uncertainties aside) - in this case he's used a standard reference test CD which should give an expected response. Electronic design isn't a matter of guessing some component values and soldering the lot together, it's a combination of design (and possibly simulation), test/measurement (loop till done). Quantitative measurements are part of that and will tell you in far more detail what the system is doing than a pair of ears can - which is exactly what he's appeared to do. Yeah, his comparative testing may be a little cursory but what he appears to be saying is 'it sounds fine and the detailed measurements back that up.' A poorer design would show up all sorts of nasties in measurement yet a subjective audio test might not detect them, and far less so identify the possible problem(s).

If you have a semi decent hi fi/pc based system already then the single biggest measurable improvement in sound quality you can make is to arrange your existing furniture to tailor the sound you hear, or if you are willing to spend a few hundred £ at most then perhaps get an audio engineer to measure the frequencies in your room and suggest ways to improve the sound. This will prob involve bass traps in the corners, tuned acoustic panels on the wall and the same on the ceiling - not expensive at all.
All that sounds intrusive but it's not, a small change can reap massive rewards especially with the poor standards of current house builds with regard to stud/partition walls. I'm dumbfounded by those who spend thousands of ££££ on hi-fi black magic but disregard the listening environment, then again all the hi fi mags/reviews have to pander to their advertisers who keep them in a job so they continue to talk bullshit.

My set up is MacBook/iTunes to Native Instruments Audio Kontrol to KRK10s active sub and KRK RP5 active monitors along with a few selectively placed corner bass traps, 4 acoustic frames on ceiling and 4 panels hung on the walls.

Did I mention I thought NAIM kit is quite good?

I think I have nearly got wife acceptance for some bass traps as the cat keeps going behind the speakers to chew the cables - I mentioned that I could fill the gaps and protect the cables by putting some bass traps in there and she is going for it 🙂

We'll done TurnerGuy, although it is more likely to be beneficial to locate the bass traps in the corners opposite your speakers - have a look through [url= https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/610173-acoustics-treatment-reference-guide-look-here.html ]this article on room acoustics on the gearslutz forum[/url] for more advice, you can diy acoustic wall panels quite cheaply using rock wool sheets built into a frame and covered by whatever fabric you like to match/contrast with your existing decor. It is also possible to design your own bass traps for 90* corner placement.

If you are at all interested in so called electronic music then give a listen to the vid below from [url=minilogue]minilogue[/url], they are one of my fav artists and this is one of my fav vids , at this precise moment I am well into my Xmas glenfiddich solera bottle of whisky and I have db reading of 92 in my 14 x 12 room but due to the room treatment it sounds precise and sonically perfect that after countless listens I still get goosebumps when I play it - nothing compares to hearing them live through £100k worth of Funktion One sound systems and a shit hot engineer though 😀 . Those crazy swedes know how to put on an event!

Best played loud enough so that you can feel the bass in your gut and the high's bring you out in a stupid grin

I just took delivery of a Behringer U202 because of this thread...

Music out the Pc is so much more engaging where it never really was when I used 4m of cable with a 3.5mm jack into the Pc headphone socket and phono plugs at the other.

Amps are Audiolab 8000s and 8000p (pre power set up) they deserved decent signal.

Thanks.

Ho-Hum….It appears that i've went and bought a [url= https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/hifi-and-home-cinema/dacmagic-plus ]Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus[/url], no real reason why i did it…... well…..not one i can fully justify to myself other than the fact that I'd quite like a CD transport to add to my system at some point in the near future - in fact it was whilst looking at the [url= https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxc ]Cambridge Audio CX C dedicated transport[/url] that got me thinking. My current Audio Kontrol was bought a few years ago when i primarily used it for DJ'ing at gigs n' festivals along with plugging all sorts of midi-related studio stuff into it but i've mostly sold all my outboard gear and now only use my Native Instruments Maschine set-up for making plinky-ponk music.

The Audio Kontrol may be of use to someone on here looking for a high quality usb sound card to use with their computer and active monitors.

Details [url= http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/niaudiokontrol.htm ]here if anyone is interested[/url], still got it's original box etc….dunno what's it worth these days but £50 sounds fair if anyone is interested.

Ken Rockwell is a bit of a flat earth kind of guy though and whilst I read his stuff I don't agree with 90% of what he writes and that stuff on DAC's is nonsense.

Oh god, has he finished chatting shit about cameras and moved onto audio too?

Oh god, has he finished chatting shit about cameras and moved onto audio too?

Was thinking the same. Sure I recognised that name from the camera world 😀 . Some of his shit makes sense though and his user guides were pretty good.

Yeah, emphasis on the [b][i][u]"some"[/u][/i][/b].

There is a £50 Maplin DAC which is very good - I use that to feed a Naim system from my laptop and the sound quality with lossless files is excellent.

Very happy with my DacMagic which arrived this morning, currently working my way through a selection of 24bit tunes from the excellent [url= http://www.erasedtapes.com/home ]Erased Tapes record label[/url], Nils Frahm at the moment soon to be followed by Lubomyr Melnyk.

Quite pleased it's pissing down and bitterly cold outside as i don't feel guilty sitting on my arse drinking coffee n' whisky at 2.30 in the afternoon 😀

[img] [/img]

A Behringer U202 has just been delivered from Amazon - looking forward to testing it this weekend.

Hmm - well I may be doing something wrong but the sound from this DAC is worse than the standard 3.5mm to phono cable I've been using.

From PC laptop - noticeable worse, unlistenable almost.

From MacBook Pro - mostly OK, but no better detail and worse on base.

Both the above are by plugging the DAC into the USB ports of each laptop.

Should I use 3.5mm to phono into the input of the DAC?

Have you played about with your audio settings to output the maximum sample size/selected the u202 as an output device?, you should be able to use the MacBooks optical out to toslink on the u202 to see if that makes a difference but the optical out on older macs is only 96kHz and 192kHz on newer models, USB is unrestricted and is what i use despite many HiFI geeks/nerds on various forums arguing for saying USB is inferior to toslink/optical.

Have you tried all the available USB ports?

My MacBook pro doesn't have an optical out (4+ years old), and tried both USBs.

Your headphone out on the macbook pro is also an optical out port, there is a microswitch inside it that automatically detects what you plug in - may be worth a try as optical cables can be quite cheap.

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/kenable-Black-Fibre-TOSlink-OPTICAL/dp/B0095ZMBNA ]cheap cable here[/url]

I never knew that! Cheers, I'll give that a go.

I took a tip from someone on here to work out possible gains from buying an external DAC over just playing through the headphone jack.

Pick a good test album ripped lossless or high bit rate (whatever's representative of the music you'll be playing - spotify/amazon mp3 bit rates/ whatever you ripped your CDs at), burn it onto a CD, and play the CD on the hifi and the same file on the laptop via the headphone line out into the hifi, and play the two together, flicking between the sources.

Digital file is identical, you're just comparing the DAC in the Hifi CD player to the DAC in the laptop.

I'm not a hi-fi buff, but the laptop line out was noticeably worse (less clarity all round, muddier bass - got the wife to swap between them without knowing which was which), so I got the epiphany acoustics jobby which I'd read great things about.

I'm happy with it. I'd also have been happy if I'd not been able to tell the difference between line out and CD - would have saved some money!

I bought the Behringer thing and it's great - for less than the price of a couple of CDs I can hear all kinds of detail I couldn't hear on my CD player on music I've been listening to for years!

Your headphone out on the macbook pro is also an optical out port, there is a microswitch inside it that automatically detects what you plug in - may be worth a try as optical cables can be quite cheap.