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Im just putting together a trip to Chamonix with the boy for some hiking and Climbing . Ive done a fair bit in the UK The likes of Crib Goch Tryfan The edges on Helvellyn and a few Munros. So the next step is the likes of Grand Paradiso and Mont Blanc. I know there are companies that charge a fair price for these trips and while my lad is well taught in rope and cravas work and a good climber, im looking for advise from those who have a head for heights. More importantly insurance.
Any reccomendations greatly received 🙂
BMC for insurance (thebmc.co.uk). I know a couple of people who needed big rescues and they just sorted it.
John Barry's book used to be the sort of text book for DIY alpine climbing and whaty mate and I read before our first Alps trip.
Start small and acclimatise a bit, both for altitude and your head.
Don't be afraid to turn back.
Apart from that have fun.
Hope that helped.
When I went to Morzine last July I left the bike and headed up Les Hant forts and happliy did the ridge line and back into town. I know that was only about 2,500m but felt great for the 8 hours I was out.
BMC was my first port of call and prices seemed very good.
As i recall, neither the Gran Par, or Mt Blanc involve any significant ridges or exposure if you do them the normal, tourist routes. They're just a long way up, and are best done with a night at one of the huts (bivvied outside the Gouter on our ascent) and an early start in the dark. Both great days out
Quite a lot has changed on Mont Blanc in the last few years due to climate change. Rock fall in the Grand Couloir on the normal route has become significantly worse to the extent that local guides are exploring alternatives. People continue to do the normal route in large numbers but the above is worth knowing about.
The Grand Paradiso is a shorter climb with less objective danger.
Just to be clear, are you planning to do this independently or with a guide?
I would say Gran paradiso independently but my lads looking into the guide situation. As for MB that would be with a Guide.
Ive read up about the melting on the Grand Couloir and rock falls being more and more common place not one to risk without local knowledge.
I would say Gran paradiso independently but my lads looking into the guide situation. As for MB that would be with a Guide.
Ive read up about the melting on the Grand Couloir and rock falls being more and more common place not one to risk without local knowledge.
Sounds sensible. The GP is pretty straightforward, not threatened by rockfall and not heavily crevassed. The route also starts from one of the most stunningly beautiful valleys in the whole of the alps with some great acclimatisation options. Far nicer than the zoo of Chamonix. I may be biased. 😀
Mont Blanc: went for a look see in 95 but there was too much crap flying down bomb alley in August so we watched those playing Russian roulette and turned back.
In 96 we were on the beach on the south coast in early July when we saw a one-day weather window the next day. We drove up to St Gervais, geared up and caught the last tram. It was below zero and lightly snowing for the climb up to the Goûter, quite an interesting climb in the conditions. After a few hours napping we joined all the others leaving the refuge well before dawn on a crisp cold clear night. Tramped up to the top in perfect conditions and back down for a rest at Goûter before heading on down for the last tramway.
Some considerations if you do the tourist route up Mont Blanc:
Weather windows can be quite short and the mountain can be stormy for days on end even in Summer, if you have a short holiday have other things to do if the mountain isn't in conditon for you.
Rock and ice fall are becoming a major problem in mid Summer, last year they closed the mountain, our decision to go earlier made the route more technical but much safer.
If you haven't spent much time at altitude you'll probably get a head ache. Sea level to 4 800m in less than 24h wasn't ideal but living in the Pyrénées we no doubt had some residual acclimatisation.
The climbing isn't hard but very weather dependant. We roped up and used axe and crampons (clatter, clatter mixed climbing) from just above Tête Rousse. No belays but I took a few stances to bring Madame up/down.
It's quite a big day, we were really fit but very glad to sit down in the Tramway. The descent from the Goûter was slow and hard work. I've seen recent vids and they've added quite a lot of fixed aids to the awkward bits since we went.
Insurance, didn't bother.
Guide, nope, just followed the elephant trail and had the usual map, compass and altimeter in case.
If you want cheaper insurance than the BMC have a look at the Austrian Alpine Club.
From your post I'm sure you have lots of experience but this:
Insurance, didn’t bother.
is surely foolhardy?
Any reccomendations greatly received
Be wary of advice from anyone who did it 20 odd years ago or anyone who sounds like they're bigging themselves up.
If you want cheaper insurance than the BMC have a look at the Austrian Alpine Club.
But check it offers the kind of cover you want/need. It's cheaper because it doesn't offer the same level of cover.
How much roped climbing/scrambling have you done? Are we talking about Crib Goch/Helvellyn edges in winter condition? And although you say your lad is well-trained in glacier travel etc, how much actual alpine-style mountaineering has he done?
I know Gran Paradiso is badged as one of the 'easiest' 4000m peaks, how much of a step up in difficulty will it be for you, particularly approaching it potentially unguided?
MB - done it 3 times though not recently. Once guided, twice independently. Your choice but I think you’d be daft not to get insurance, which is pretty cheap. It’s a BIG step from Helvellyn to MB, even though, in Alpine terms it’s not that technical. For that reason I’d recommend a guide, but I waited til I got out there, got a local guide, explained I wasn’t a complete numpty over a beer and had a great trip.. also if you’re on a limited time trip a guide makes sure you get best value out of the time you do have. To acclimatise I popped up the Aiguille du midi and pottered about on the plateau for a bit then did MB du Tacul…. That way I only had to pay the guide for 24 hours! Good luck and enjoy - even with crowds the alps is fab..
No direct experience other than from talking to my uncle, who was a guide in Argentiere for most of his working life. There are many other mountains in the valley which are a better climb and nicer in most respects than MB. No disrespect to those that have done it. Educators description sounds like a great trip. And it is the highest, obvs!
Would recommend him (EDIT:My Uncle Terry the is, Not Ed!) as a guide but he is now retired and uses a mobility scooter!
I've done both (different trips) guideless. Grand Paradiso is a good slog from the valley to the hut then just a standard alpine PD (IIRC) plod. Nothing notable from a difficulty perspective. Bit of rock at the top, that's all.
For Mont Blanc, we took the frique up the Midi and stayed in the Cosmiques. The trickiest bit was descending to the Mer de Glace in the late afternoon as its quite steep, exposed and not very stable. The ordinary route is straightforward save for altitude and the Grand Couloir. Just a slog. Mebbies do something else to acclimatise on first. We dint and it would have been better if we had.
Oh and I used BMC for insurance. A heli rescue was in the £20k's when I was last out there so unless you want to self insure for double this sum (ie there's 2 of you), pay the premium.
Austrian Alpine Club insurance used to be rescue only, not medical care or repatriation. It is primarily mountain rescue cover for those who already have full medical insurance (such as those who live in Austria). Check carefully!
Madame just after l'Abri de Vallot. As we passed people were emerging who'd been stuck in it for four days due to the storm we'd waited to let pass.
The ordinary route is straightforward save for altitude and the Grand Couloir.
God knows what the Couloir is like these days with higher temps and less ice to hold shit together.
The Vallot hut is a toilet, I'd avoid it. I stuck my head in on the way past and it was 50% bivvying climbers/50% excrement...
The Vallot hut is a toilet, I’d avoid it.
And also potentially a life saver, it's quite reassuring that it's there.
The Grand Couloir just looks like an excuse for a game of Russian Roulette. A guide won’t be able to help when a boulder bigger than your head is hurtling towards your head!
Not suggesting you shouldn’t take a guide !
Has your son been to altitude before?
My experiences of the fells is limited to the Edges in winter on Hel and the Cobbler 3 weels back in snow and ice . I big step up for me but I dont think fitness is the problem just hands on experience. My lad is course taught but real world lacking on glacier. Im now almost sure guide is best for the first time out, yes it will cost extra but will give us a sense of what involved rather than winging it. I dont think in the 6 days we have there Mont Blanc is doable as there are a few other day hikes Id like to do so Paradiso over the 36 hours seems the best use of time.
Im now almost sure guide is best for the first time out, yes it will cost extra but will give us a sense of what involved rather than winging it.
That's a good decision. Winging it on your first Alps trip can involve getting into some 'interesting' situations.
My experiences of the fells is limited to the Edges in winter on Hel and the Cobbler 3 weels back in snow and ice .
Based on that level of experience I'd say a guide for your first 4000er is probably a good idea. How long are you out for and will you have a car out there? You could consider doing MB with a guide then the GP independently. Also consider spending a week in the GP area, there are lots of easy peaks you could do independently as acclimatisation.
GP panorama
Sounds like a fantastic plan with your son.
If you are looking for a starting point on guides, Stuart is a good guy and quite a CV.
British, based in Les Houches. I've not used him for climbing but had fantastic experience in the winter with him on skis.
https://www.stuartmacdonald.org/
A heli rescue was in the £20k’s when I was last out there
This is a common misconception. Heli rescue is free if you need it. There have been cases where folks have been billed for the ride down, but this has been where they basically decided they couldn't be arsed walking off - no injuries, no weather coming in, they just didn't fancy a cold, dark night shivering on the mountain and then hiking out in the morning.
I think in this circumstance, the OP is going to feel/be responsible for his son and the OP seems to have very limited experience. Not sure of the sons but it doesn't matter.
We used to work up to the Alps via English/Welsh Summer, English/Welsh Winter then Scottish Winter. We went out and plodded up F snow plods then PD mixed stuff then onwards and upwards as we got more experience trying not to have an epic - not always succesfully.
In the absence of this, someone of sufficient knowledge (AKA 'a Guide') might be wise even though the two bumps in question are fairly straightforward. The penalty for error can be pretty high.
The only time I've used a Guide is ski mountaineering as they know the geography of the area. This means if its crap in area A, they know an area B which will be good (or safe) etc. That's what I wanted from the Guide.
If that's true about heli rescue 'then' (rather than 'now'), it was a very popular misconception as we 'all' believed we were responsible for the costs of rescue presumably which is why the BMC sold insurance to cover it.
Talking of refuge, this place looks amazing!
We are only in the valley for 6 days so time is limited. The plan seems to be along the lines of a couple of days hiking walking, La Jonction looks like a good place to start. Then a couple of days guided on Grand Para. I think thats the best idea to get the most from it and a learnng curve for both of us. We are both happy for long days hoofin and fairly fit .. we did Nevis last April in 3h 15 up and down in the snow and ice, Ok not world record times but still quicker than the guide books 🙂
Day 5 food and a few relaxing drinks
Add the fact my wife will kill me if blue eyed boy gets hurt in any way shape or form. Guiding seems to be the way forward
Austrian Alpine used to offer a good discount on huts. Altitude may kick your arse worse than the Mrs. It's getting back down that's the most important part, have a great trip.
I'd say that if the GP is the main target and you only have 6 days just go to that area and don't bother with Chamonix. I know Chamonix is a big draw but the GP area is much quieter much prettier and often has better weather. Valsavarenche where you access the GP from is the most beautiful alpine valley I've been to. Lots of ideas for walks and other activities here: https://www.lovevda.it/en/summer-sport
If you're staying in the huts the BMC does a reciprocal rights card for cheaperer overnights.
If you want to do Mont Blanc, check out the UCPA in Chamonix. When I went a few years ago now, they ran a summer guided package inc all the equipment, guide and a bit of training etc. I think it’s a 2 week stay and they hope for a weather window within that. I always thought that looked like fun.
I've been up Mont Blanc a few times. I don't think you need a guide for route finding as it's very straightforward, and there's a good number of people around. I've been to the top via the normal route from the Midi, the Kuffner arete to Maudit, Gouter and I've been down the original Grands Mulets route as well. I'd personally go UP from the Midi, and then down the Gouter route, limiting Grand Couloir crossings to one, and hopefully in the morning. I've linked a UKC article below, Understand that guide or no guide the Couloir is simple gambling. That's also true of the serac on the Trois Monts route, but that's a smaller risk i.m.o. (though with bigger consequences) Also a guide isn't going to have any magic when you get very, very tired.
Where a guide is useful is getting you across a glacier as that is one thing you won't have learnt in the UK. The walking bit is easy, the ropework to rescue someone is not. Get that taught by a guide and you've got your moneys worth.
I've always used BMC insurance.
If you want easier and full mountain days out with or without glaciers there are plenty around Cham. I actually like the place. Hows your climbing - Aiguille de l'M?
With insurance remember don't be too concerned with rescue costs as they would be dwarfed by any potential hospital stay or repatriation following injury. It is insurance so unlikely to be needed until it is!
Definitely plan some smaller objectives to plod up for acclimatisation and get your feet used to crampons again.
Link to the book I mentioned above. Probably slightly more up to date ones available but it's a readable book not just instructional.
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781852238889/Alpine-Climbing-Barry-John-1852238887/plp
Understand that guide or no guide the Couloir is simple gambling
However the odds depend on the conditions. On a warm August afternoon when most people are heading up to the Goûter there was sporadic rockfall the whole time we were within earshot of the couloir, we turned back whilst others ran across between volleys. On a freezing evening in early July nothing moved, silence. The next day it was warmer but again, silence.
Another factor in deciding if a guide is needed is the advent of GPS. Back in the day people would have the bearing of Goûter from Vallot preset on their compass because getting back down the dome without getting lost and/or falling off the edge in a white out was not easy. Local knowledge was definitely an advantage and if in doubt people holed up in Vallot. These days you can run a track back and follow it back down no problem.
There is a fair old path/trench to follow on the popular routes so nav isn't a big deal on the popular routes, and it's hard to lose the track. And you really shouldn't be up there in a white out, and the meteo is pretty good (and was 30 years ago too). A guide certainly won't take you up if the weather looks a bit ropey.
Agree that time of day matters on the couloir but most people cross it late morning (descending after sunrise on the summit) or in the afternoon (going up) , when it is likely to be warming and dumping stuff.
the meteo is pretty good (and was 30 years ago too)
That's why we were up there when we were. However, people were emerging from Vallot as we passed for a reason - mountains have an irritating tendancy to create their own weather. I've survived a violent thunderstorm on Balaitous on an otherwise perfect day with nothing but sun forecast. It went from perfect conditions to all hell let loose within about 45 minutes and back to glorious sunshine about an hour later. Out ski touring on my own up Anéou clouds rolled in unexpectedly from Spain and in a few minutes I was in a white out with snow fast covering my tracks. It took me an eternity to get back down descending "en escalier" probing with a ski stick when near the cliffs I didn't want to fall off. GPS and trackback are great and getting better, it used to be approximate, it's now really close.
A guide certainly won’t take you up if the weather looks a bit ropey.
The guides I know are human and rely on the same information as the rest of us, they can get caught out by the unexpected too:
Plan of action noiw seems to be taking place. Rather than fly, were going to drive down taking a little longer but as ive done Morzine a few times before its no real problem plus it means ease to get from Chamonix to the Aosta valley . A couple of day in Chamonix hiking to ease into things. Then a guided hike /walk up Grand Paradiso. It give a small insight into 3000+ wandering for us both and as is always said the mountain will be there next time we go 🙂
Sounds good. As Timbog said on the previous page:
also if you’re on a limited time trip a guide makes sure you get best value out of the time you do have
Using a guide for local knowledge and safety rather than just to haul you up something you would otherwise be incapable of. I'm sure Ms stevedoc will approve. 😉
Make sure the hiking in Chamonix isn't too vertical, long Alpine descents can leave you with sore legs for days and that would compromise enjoyment on Grand Paradiso. I suggest high walks where you can get a cable car down - possible in all four ski sectors of the resort.
I've done grand paradiso, it's probably the easiest 4000m peak in the Alps, it's just a plod to great height. Just a suggestion, but I think you'd get more alpine experience being guided on something a little bit more challenging, saving something like GP as your first non guided route?. One of my favourite routes is Barre des Ecrin normal route, I'd def recommend something like that as a first guided experience, you'll get the snow plod / cravase nav experience as well as moving together on a ridge experience. I just think there's better routes you'll learn more on from a guide, than GP
The key thing to do beforehand is acclimatisation for a 4000m peak, which means you need to be going as high as possible ie over 2500m preferably 3000m+. I suppose a cheat might be to catch a cable car to great height and spend a few hours up there. That's assuming you don't currently know how you'd be affected at those sort of heights, everyone is different.
Just re reading my post, reads a bit negative about GP. Not my intention, it's a brilliant alpine day out. The point I was trying to make is it's an ideal peak as your first non guided. And IMO you'd get more from a guided day if you did a peak with more varied terrain.
Stumbled upon a YouTube channel of The Mediocre Amateurs. A bunch of American guys doing some interesting Peaks all over the world. Fit guys, light, fast and flexible planning. Good filming.
@B.A.Nana It didnt come across as negative at all. Any advise and reviews are welcome. Like my original post ive been up as high at 2500m and in fine fettle, but nothing higher. Me and my lad spoke again today about the trip, hes almost at the point where he thinks we should do it un-guided, he has a good climbing back ground on technical stuff and wants to do the crevasse rescue course before hand. For me La Junction as a start hike and a few hours up on the cable to Midi will either kill or cure me .
Me and my lad spoke again today about the trip, hes almost at the point where he thinks we should do it un-guided, he has a good climbing back ground on technical stuff and wants to do the crevasse rescue course before hand.
GP or MB? The main advantage of the guide on GP is not so much to drag you up the technical bits (as there aren't many), but to reduce any faffing about, set the correct pace, and to make the correct decisons at the right time about roping up, crampons on/off, and weather. It's not really about his technical skill at this level, it's your ability to move efficiently and safely as a team.
A crevasse rescue course sounds like fun, as long as he's done the 'how not to fall into crevasses in the first place' course as well. Also, seems to rely on you falling in the crevasse, not him, unless you're already confident setting up a snow/axe belay and a z-pulley.
Just a suggestion, but I think you’d get more alpine experience being guided on something a little bit more challenging, saving something like GP as your first non guided route?. One of my favourite routes is Barre des Ecrin normal route
Good suggestion - if you're a competent scrambler with reasonable fitness, being guided on a more technical route to a lower summit, or even not a summit at all, could deliver an outstanding experience.
If your lad wants some Alpine learning he may be eligible to participate on a Conville course. They aim to give you the skills to climb independently on Alpine terrain rather than guide you up a route.
https://www.jcmt.org.uk/
If you want a guide then look up Paul Swail - he's on FB and can unreservedly recommend. Irish lad, fully qualified guide and now lives just down the valley from Cham. Lovely fella and knows his onions (and glaciers). Took us ski touring one day - only day I've needed to ski into a couloir on a rope and probably the most memorable day I've had on skis.
Thank you slowol ive just forwards those on to the boy 🙂
And again dashed I will have a look for Paul 🙂
Has anyone mentioned hut bookings? Best to get in there sharpish for MB, from what I can gather the Gouter hut fills up pretty quick.
Me and my lad spoke again today about the trip, hes almost at the point where he thinks we should do it un-guided
My advice for GP (assuming from the Vittorio Emmanuele hut) is to go for a walk to reccy the start approach to the glacier the afternoon/eve before. From memory it's a massive boulder field that with a reccy will be made much more straightforward when you start early the next morning in the pitch dark knowing exactly where you're supposed to be heading. It was something we agreed we were glad we did.
For what it is, the GP is physically as well as technically quite easy. A few hours walk to the hut (probably Vittorio Emanuele which is lovely) then a longer but still reasonable day to summit and back down. I actually did it from the valley in a day and this is not uncommon although you need to be fairly fit and I wouldn't recommend it as a strategy for a first 4000er.
Thanks Spin and Nana . MB is not happening this time we have agreed thats just not practical with the time frame we have. As for GP the plan is leave Chamonix around 10am and drive to Pont (ish) and have some lunch and walk up to the hut, have a relax and reccy then summit the next morning and back to the valley floor. I can see two reasons why the likes of Adventure base take 3 days as part of a MB tour staying another night in the hut. Firstly the acclimatizing and resting and secondly its a business ;). From reading and watching they say around 5 hours up and 2.5 back to the hut and another 2 back down. Thats a doable day in my eyes he says with trepidation 🙂
Sounds like a decent plan, and you should have a good trip, weather allowing of course.
A lot of people talk about acclimitisation, but it takes weeks rather than a few days even to get used to 2000m. My tip for summiting these bigger hills is to try to take it steady the day before, so don't get carried away recce'ing. But BA Nana has experience on the GP that I don't have, so take his advice 🙂
It's a good plod up to the hut on Grand Paradiso and therefore, a good plod down after going to the top. You'll have a long day and assuming cyclists legs prior, sleep well that night...
Bon courage.
The hike a biker in me is so tempted to get my bike to the Hut and leave it there the night .. looks like a right run down to the valley floor.
I took the mrs up grand paradiso as her first 4000m a few years ago. She is very confident with crevasse rescue (she got schooled by me before we went touring if i fall in a slotbi need to get out). Just not climbed a lot with crampons axes etc just the odd bits and bobs scottish ii and classic days like horseshoe in winter etc.
As others have said take time to figure the route from the hut the day before its confusing in the dark. Route is pretty obvious from memory and no great objective risks like the grand couloir on MB. One steep little bit before on ice when we went just before the scramble, but was late August.
Bike down from hut would be brilliant apart from all the people coming up.
Have always intended to head back in the spring to ski it.
One other thing i wouldnt bother with chamonix hate the place, take your bike do some walking, and visit Pila and La Thuile.
Half way up the carpark there is also a great pizza restaurant
And i forgot to say if you know the basics ice axe arrest, moving together etc its a brilliant first alpine route.
One thing i would say is dont be affraid to turn back better sitting in the hut having a beer than a hospital bed.
Dont carry too much, no need for rock gear, scramble at the top obly needs a few slings and krabs, a ice screw and recue kit should be all you need. Sane goes for clothes no need for loads and pointless carrying waterproofs. Abd remember a hat and a small suncream bottle thats can be in a pocket, reapply all the time
One other thing i wouldnt bother with chamonix
2nd that, suggested it up thread.
Have always intended to head back in the spring to ski it.
It's a great ski mountain. I skied it in April 2015 with pals then went back in summer 2018 and did it on foot.
I like Chamonix a lot, even the low level walking is spectacular.
Whatever else gets chucked out of the rucksac when trying to save weight the waterproofs stay, the down jacket too above 3000m. 1kg to be able to cope with a rapid change in conditions and increase my life expectancy by a few hours if I can't move for any reason.
I have to admit i have never used waterproofs in the alps in summer if the weather looks bad you stay in town/hut and have some beers and play some cards.
Downy again not a fan if weather is bad down is shit synthetics rule in my world, spent a long cold night in January in a belay jacket feet in a bag on top of les droites as a young cocky aspiring alpinist when i found out we weren't fit enough to do it valley to valley in a day. Makes a good pub story for a old man.
Who ever mentioned the Conville course further up the thread do this 100% we are lucky in the uk with things lime this or grants for expeditions.
One thing is for certain where ever you go it will be amazing mountains and your lad cant wait for my young ones to be old enough.
Thing is a lot of people have died in similar circumstances, ffati, a few kmh more of windchill on les droites and you might not have survived.
Nothing beats down for warmth/weight and it only takes a 250gm gortex to keep it dry.
Beautiful day today (January), wall to wall sunshine, but it was -8°C on the balcony at 1370m this morning and somewhat colder on my touring skis at >2000m which with windchill made it biting cold. Just inactive the time to get the skins off and I was shivering. Being cold and or wet is really unpleasant and dangerous.
The average death rate in the Alps and Pyrenees is about 120 a year. The Winter season alone was 39 in 2021. Most of those people were experienced.
The thread is about the OP and his son having the best possible time and getting son back to Ms Stevedoc in one piece. You can't eliminate all the risk in the mountains but that doesn't mean one should take unecessary risks or make optimistic assumptions about the weather and gear required.
I think you should go well equipped even if it means a couple of extra kgs in the rucksac and consequently moving a bit slower, Stevedoc.
I for one will be taking the right levels of layering up with me. We were both out in the worst of conditions in Scotland 3 weeks ago , crampons axes poles , gortex my down and softshell both in the backpack. Im happy to wear t shirts and shorts almost every day of the year and get warm easily, but know how quickly things can go south so will pack accordingly. Hes away at Uni at the moment so the odd call and message while hes studying and other things no doubt, but hes getting excited already. He had a face on him while we were in Morzine last year 😉
Edukator i have no wish to die and view and respect your outlook on storm gear i just think we are looming at it from two different system view points? Im definitely a soft shell and synthetic type if person and i hate waterproofs just view them as boil in the bag sweat fest get cold etc. I also respect your outlook on a few more kph wind and would have been diffrent,can take the outlook on many walk of our lives. We have to draw a personal line somewhere where we are comfortable. Im lucky i run very warm to the point of being redicilous but i suffer in summer heat.
In envious of your day out skiing i had a day of decorating and fitting a new door.
Stevedoc if your lad is in uni he will definitely qualify for a conville course
https://www.jcmt.org.uk/And a again dont take my words as a ego trip etc. A day in the moubtains is a wonderful thing and spending it with your lad will be the best thing. My kids in a way cant grow up quick enough
As others have said take time to figure the route from the hut the day before its confusing in the dark.
I'm glad it wasn't just me. As ffati says, from there on it's all straightforward on the glacier. Re clothing, bearing in mind you'll only be doing it if the forecast is good, early morning think in terms of a nice cold Scottish winter day with no wind chill (so not actually that cold), mid day onwards sun hat and striped down to your baselayer is a distinct possibility. One recommendation is I always use cheap work wear gloves (those partially rubberised finger ones) constantly handling the rope quickly wears out the fingers on most general outdoorsy gloves (unless you buy expensive Alpine specific gloves). High factor sun cream as you'll quickly get burnt from the glare off the glacier.
@ffati . Ive already sent the boy that link for the courses im sure hes already been in touch with them but thank you. We are simple Northern folk and he feels like his legs have been removed walking round flat Oxford. He will be back up here in a few weeks for the rain and wind and elevation again. Hes hoping for snow on Crib.
Cheers Nana for all the imput too.. looking forward to being back in the Alps .
This option has just occurred to me.
Drive to Cervinia, catch the early morning cable car to Testa Grigia (3500m), walk up the piste to summit of Breithorn (4164m). This is def. the easiest 4000m peak in the alps and only about 3hrs round trip. you can walk most of it unroped up the side of the piste ski runs. You cross a couple of piste and then rope up and do the final summit slope. I've done it with 4 others as acclimatisation and we were back in Cervinia before any of us got altitude headaches, so I'm pretty confident the same in your case. Don't make any plans for the afternoon as you'll probably not feel great. BUT, you get to tick off a 4000m peak (assuming you're not a purest) and you should be acclimatised to go up Grand Paradiso a few days later. It's 1hr45mins between cervinia and Pont according to googlemaps. This is probably what I'd do if I was taking a novice on a first alpine experience, short on time, needed to acclimatise quickly, get a couple of 4000m peaks in.
Aye I remember waddling up the Breithhorn whilst my chums had a leisurely lunch. It's a nice easy one to tick off.