[Closed] Anxiety/ panic attacks when talking to groups?

Remember that they are all just ****wits like the rest of us, for me once I realises that everyone was just another form of human everything got a lot better.

Though

The crazy thing is I work in sales and regularly (like a couple of times a day at least) have to pitch my service in detail to 1 or 2 people (and I am usually fine). In fact, 90% of the time I am not nervous at all. It has happened a couple of times though when pitching to just 2 people and I have just had to fake feeling very ill and leave!!

Can you do what you say you can? Who are you selling for? Can they deliver? I find personally you have to believe it to sell it properly

I work for myself and yes, I completely know my stuff and I believe (quite enthusiastically some say) that we are the best at what we do.

It isnt about subject matter. Its me becoming very self aware.

It happens sometimes even when talking ti a group of friends in the pub or even when introducing myself at a networking or training event.

I have experienced very similar in the past. I took some coaching with these people and although it's not a magic wand (it's a work in progress I have to work at) I found it v useful  https://www.speaking-infront.co.uk

Also how long have you been doing the job? Luckily for me I had a near 10 year soft run in to real sales and external clients so that helped

Hey,

If you get worried speaking to 4 people try jumping in at the deep end and speaking to 20 or more. After this 4 will seem a walk in the park.

Look at https://www.meetup.com/, see if there are any events you can speak at on any subject and try it out. No one will know you and the risk is low, no deal to blow or friends to judge. There are probably events for people who don't like speaking in front of people on there 🙂

Prepare and practise what you're going to say (eg. your services pitch). This takes a huge amount of pressure off, then you just have to take care of the delivery. Having to ad-lib will only add to the pressure.

What you’re describing is classic anxiety & panic attacks (although thankfully not full blown ones by the sounds of it) and it’s your fight or flight response ‘malfunctioning’ and being over attuned . I suffered (sometimes still do) from exactly the same thing in a work context and typically when having to pitch / present (all though also sometimes when talking technical with my colleagues on stuff I don’t feel I know as much as I should - not an issue in your case by the sounds of it).

my issues were work related, but also tied up in other things so first thing I’d ask yourself is there anything else in you’re life causing stress and anxiety (above the normal day to day) that needs addressing?

as it’s your own business, I’m guessing you’re putting great importance and weight on the outcome of these meetings and therefore your performance- this in itself can be a major trigger. Try not to ‘care’ as much. Take the pressure off by taking the mindset of ‘yes I want to win this business, but you know what if I don’t or I make a mess of it, there’s alway the next meeting’. Anxiety is essentially the fear you won’t cope / be able to control something, if you reduce the ‘things’ importance you reduce the anxiety

CBT was the single biggest thing that helped with my anxiety. Ideally get some one to one counselling if you have access / funds - not cheap as typically looking at £50-70 a session privately and normally 10-12 session, but what price do you put on mental health? Alternatively, there are some good self help books around. I found CBT for dummies useful as it breaks it all down and explains the process and I’m very process driven

i also went to my doctors and he prescribed me beta blockers (propanol) to use on an as & when basis for situational anxiety ie take one an hour before a pitch. They slow your heart rate and also inhibits the release of adrenaline and cortisol (the stress hormones that make you feel dizzy, short of breath, sweaty etc). They made a big difference to me (still use them on occasion). They have no side effects other than they make exercise hard work after taking them. You don’t build up a tolerance or habituation to them, so you don’t get nasty issues with them from stopping using them like SSRI’s or benzo’s - however I am not a doctor, speak to yours

finally, and this is a difficult one to believe but trust me on it, even though internally it might feel like everything is falling apart and you’re about to explode when it’s happening, the people you are talking to rarely notice as actually it doesn’t really display its self externally. I’ve had meetings were I’ve been having severe issues and although I may of come across a little off kilter, the people I’ve been speaking with have thought it was a great meeting. Anxiety distorts the way you look at things including the way you think you are being perceived, so if it happens in a meeting just try an roll  with it (a lot easier said than done, but doable with enough practice)

Feel free to PM if you want to chat further as anxiety and panic attacks aren’t fun, but you can exert some control. Although took me a while to accept that once they’ve been an issue, you always have the propensity for them to be an issue in future. But 90% of the time it’s all manageable for me these days. It’s only when Work gets very stressful & pressures (like now) they manifest in a far reduced form to what they used to be

good luck

ben

Try and focus on one or two people in the group initially? Talk to them and once you get more comfortable and less anxious make eye contact with the others in the group and turn your focus to other people so everyone feels included.

You can self-refer to your local NHS IAPT service for CBT and waits should be not be too bad. It’s all highly quality controlled so you will be getting good quality CBT. You should be able to find your local service on google or just ask your GP surgery.

Triumph Over Phobia www.topuk.org are a good resource and they have groups in the south west and a virtual group.

Good luck, it will resolve and some guided intervention is usually helpful.

I can empathise. Only self diagnosed but sounds similar to my experiences. Think I suffer from Social Anxiety Disorder. I used to be plain old shy, but now it has a name. Can't offer any advice as I just tend to avoid situations that will bring on the anxiety. But sometimes you can't as in the case of being Best Man at a friends wedding. Didn't matter that it went well and I got pats on the back. It was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life and I suffered for weeks beforehand.

Ironic thing is I love talking to people and can start a conversation with anyone. But once in a group situation I switch off and fade into the background. These days I'll even avoid parties where I know everyone there will be my friends. Now I just accept it and just feel a little sad at how it has impacted on my life. Hope you can overcome it.

Never done it myself but my employer does courses on public speaking (really for team meetings/internal meetings etc).  Apparently its pretty good, you start in small groups and present about a topic of your choice, they film it and then give feedback, and highlight stuff you might have been doing without realising that distracts your audience, such as wringing hands, repeating words or sentences etc, stepping back and forth.

It might sound like a backward step to point out weaknesses, but it seems people come out of it with increased confidence.

(I hate speaking publicly, either in front of a team, group of friends, or running a conference call.  Even when it goes fairly well, I'd still rather not be doing it, others seem to relish and enjoy it)

Thanks for all the advise and tips everyone. You’ve given me a few things to go on (and a bit of hope).

Much appreciated!

Propranalol from your GP does help, but there's no way I'd take it every day, I take it a very few times a year for job interviews, big presentations etc. It works really well but with no adrenaline life feels weird and I can't sleep if I've taken it which is a common side effect.

Personally when it happens to me there's a big peak of adrenaline and everything goes to shit and I want to jump out the window, but then ten minutes later things level out and by the end of the presentation or whatever I'm wondering what all the fuss was about. If I have to start dealing with this kind of thing regularly again I'd be looking for the therapy side of things rather than drugs, though having said that I'm awaiting some CBD oil to see if that helps. It's weird because at uni I loved presentations etc and didn't get remotely nervous, then one day boom.

Propranalol from your GP does help, but there’s no way I’d take it every day

youre not mean too, just take it when you need it. That’s it’s big advantage, unlike SSRI’s and theclike you don’t have to build up a ‘base level’ in your body for it to be effective. However, it’s only a sticking plaster or crutches to help you get by, doesn’t fix the issue

Ironic thing is I love talking to people and can start a conversation with anyone. But once in a group situation I switch off and fade into the background.

That's me, that is! Happy to talk to anyone but put me in a group, even of friends, and I just shrink out of sight. Used to bother me a bit, over it now.

No real advice to you, OP,  just anecdotal stuff - I do am dram and whilst I think it's important to feel some nervousness, it's a fine line between on the edge and too edgey. There's a chap in our group who is a fantastic actor, prolly best of us all, but he talks all the confidence out of himself. So I know it's a head game, but I can't tell you how to win.

OP don't worry you are not alone! In a previous work life I had to give presentations on a regular basis - anything from 4 to big audiences of several hundred. It was massively stressful & I used to worry about it on every occasion for days in advance & then would have to battle with the physical symptoms that you describe. My coping tactics were to prepare like crazy & practice the shit out every presentation. I also did John Dawson's 'speaking in front' course. It did get a bit better over time but never really went away & eventually I changed jobs where the requirement was less & now is non existent.

Having not experienced the feeling for a long time I've recently started doing a course that will involve some teaching & even though I'm much older & wiser now I could feel that same 'performance' anxiety rising so it clearly never disappears entirely! There's some good advice up there so would just add, don't ignore it, do some courses or whatever you need to help ease the stress. FWIW people always said I appeared very natural and confident so it is possible to fake it till you make it!

Agreed! Very good advice and also reassuring that I’m not too alone with this. Thank you 🙂