[Closed] Anti Muslim sentiment accusations

Sometimes some of the anti muslim thing is just that - Halal meat is one i tend to think is just anti muslim rhetoric. You are eating chickens industrial bred in pens they cannot move and then served to you in a bucket from an american company. You then want to discuss your heritage being ruined and animal welfare issue.. I dont believe you. Ditto schools some just use it as a rod to beat them

+1

Every group has their extremists; however wouldn't most reputable groups do something about extremists who didn't actually reflect their views rather than go "nowt to do with us guv," maybe exercise their majority to try and persuade them that they're not representative?

I imagine if I was a 'moderate' Muslim I'd probably get pretty pissed off about constantly being asked to prove I wasn't an extremist and to condemn terrorism etc. I don't recall anyone asking moderate Christians to condemn Anders Breivik.

I know it's not quite the same because there is a reasonably prevalent strain of Islam that is quite extreme, but still...

Regardless of everyone else's beliefs or efforts, Islam seems to be making a fair fist of demonising itself in our society at the moment. When it condemns terrorism across the board, renounces Sharia law, stops persecuting its own womenfolk, and promotes blanket tolerance towards non-Muslims, then it can come and play with the other children again.

Or perhaps...
- some people who are Muslims use Islam as an excuse for their own intolerance and narrow-mindedness which we are then particularly made aware of by the established media
- there is no singular 'it' any more than there is a singular Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish or atheist 'it'.
- more terrorism is perpetrated against Muslims than Muslims perpetrate against others but this isn't brought to our attention
- most concepts in Sharia law are actually very simple, reasonable and have a lot in common with our own laws
- some Sharia laws are perverted by some people to assert control over others when that is not actually supported by Sharia law
- there is not really an 'it' which can condemn terrorism. Not one Muslim I know is supportive of terrorism
- Islam is actually more tolerant than most religions...
- the treatment of women restricting their rights is not religious but culturally-based.

Yunki YGM

Every group has their extremists; however wouldn't most reputable groups do something about extremists who didn't actually reflect their views rather than go "nowt to do with us guv," maybe exercise their majority to try and persuade them that they're not representative?

Why won't the Wee Frees denounce Anders Breivik? Why won't Christians stop oppressing their womenfolk so that 50% of women in the US and UK aren't sexually harassed or assaulted in their lives? Why won't peaceful English people stand up and apologize for the Westboro Baptist Church?

See how easy and facile it is to make up these false premises?

Seems that bearing in mind the above comments a sensible position to take would be to want religion to have nothing to do with the education of children bearing in mind it's inconsistent teaching, dubious moral value and potential for misinterpretation. I think the Catholic church is also under pretty tight scrutiny too, they even sacked their CEO (for health reasons), so it's not just Islam. I had hoped that religion was behind us. I think what many fear but perhaps articulate poorly is the general regrowth of any religion as a force in society. Islam seems to be rising as does fundemetal christianity in reponse and I'd rather not be stuck in the bloody middle of two sets of loonies arguing over their imaginary friends.

So as muslims seem so peaceful,has there ever been a time when they haven't been at war with each other or other religions, they just seem a very sensitive cult/belief

The deep thinkers always come out about midnight and show there sensitive side

Thank God I live in a mainly christian country where none of that shit ever happens

Peace be with you - a cultural reference no doubt lost on you

Every group has their extremists; however wouldn't most reputable groups do something about extremists ............maybe exercise their majority to try and persuade them that they're not representative?

In the case of "extremists" within Islam they often see other Muslims as both legitimate targets of violence and often a greater enemy than non-Muslims.

Al Qaeda for example have a policy of killing other Muslims because firstly they believe that violence is necessary to create the conditions of chaos, instability, and eventual overthrow of the existing order, and secondly, because the real enemy for them are the majority of Muslims whom they consider to be guilty of apostasy.

Wahhabism/Salafism considers any Muslim who doesn't support strict fundamentalist sharia law to be an unbeliever or kafir under takfir.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Salafism

To these extremists a Muslim guilty of apostasy, ie, the majority of Muslims in their eyes, is worse than being a Christian or Jew. There is no death penalty for being a Christian or Jew but there is for apostasy.

So any Muslim trying to [i]"persuade them that they're not representative"[/i] are unlikely to succeed and more likely to be targeted. Haven't you heard that Al Qaeda kills rather a lot of Muslims ?

So as muslims seem so peaceful,has there ever been a time when they haven't been at war with each other or other religions, they just seem a very sensitive cult/belief

Still, I don't mind the animists too much, but I'm probably a bit biased, being a Zoroastrian meself...

Every group has their extremists; however wouldn't most reputable groups do something about extremists who didn't actually reflect their views rather than go "nowt to do with us guv," maybe exercise their majority to try and persuade them that they're not representative?

Who are we talking about here, I couldn't find the original post. Kind of looks like your describing Tony Blair and his friends leading us into Iraq and my subsequent response.

See how easy and facile it is to make up these false premises?

Except its not is it? There is a reasonable expectation that like minded people should condem those around them. For example British Muslims openly criticising the murderers of Lee Rigby. You may find a few words of condemnation if you look hard enough but hardly an outpouring.
If you cant see that Islam is a greater threat from all of the other "groups" that you list then you are naive. They all have their nutcases however few people live in fear of Sikhism for example.

And there we have it.. that is the net result of the demonisation in a nutshell

were you frightened of Muslims before 9/11?

How would that happen though?

When a little girl gets kidnapped, their parents come on the radio and plead with the kidnappers to send her home. Last time I heard a spokesman from a Blackburn mosque on the radio following some terrorist activity or other the gist of his sentiment was to distance them from 'real' Muslims. Which is a good start, but where's the "so if you're listening, please stop it"? Where's the "so we're talking with other Imams to try and root these people out of our communities"? Where's the "we're preaching to our flock that this is wrong"? And if they're doing all those things then at the very least they need to work on their PR.

When a Christian person or extremist group performs an atrocity do we each personally as part of a global Christian community jump up and stride out into the world to calm everyone down and allay fears?

Do you?

Well, I don't, because I'm not a Christian. But if someone was committing atrocities in my name then I'd like to think that I'd be doing whatever I could to get them to stop it. Seems like the decent, sensible thing to do to me.

Why won't peaceful English people stand up and apologize for the Westboro Baptist Church?

Plenty do. People rally against their rallies these days. There was no funeral for Fred Phelps (as far as I know) due to their fear of protesters, as a random example.

So any Muslim trying to "persuade them that they're not representative" are unlikely to succeed and more likely to be targeted. Haven't you heard that Al Qaeda kills rather a lot of Muslims ?

Islam is a religion followed by a billion people

A billion people follow Islam but, what, they're all too scared of their own religion to speak out against the more extreme bits of it? Have we really got a situation where a billion people are all following a mob mind that many of them don't actually fully believe in?

And there we have it.. that is the net result of the demonisation in a nutshell

were you frightened of Muslims before 9/11?

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. Are you saying Islam is "deomonised"? If so are you saying people are irrational who fear Islam and/or are you saying the demonisation is unfair?

Surfer - yes, yes and yes and emphatically ****ing yes with big fat hairy balls on!!

You can read back through the thread to find my exact stance on this with all points very clearly laid out

Cougar - I think that you're kinda talking nonsense there a bit mate - when it all kicked off royally a few years back the Immams and mosques were doing precisely what you say they are not doing..

this is in danger of becoming an obtuse thread now

You can read back through the thread to find my exact stance on this

Fair enough Yunki I dont have time to follow it closely. You are wrong however there is nothing irrational about fearing Islam and ref your last point if they were they were doing it incredibly quietly.

surfer - Member

Are you saying Islam is "deomonised"? If so are you saying people are irrational who fear Islam and/or are you saying the demonisation is unfair?

I am.

Cougar - Moderator
A billion people follow Islam but, what, they're all too scared of their own religion to speak out against the more extreme bits of it? Have we really got a situation where a billion people are all following a mob mind that many of them don't actually fully believe in?

Really? There are plenty speaking out against it FFS.

Surfer - I disagree.. I think it's lazy and ignorant to fear Islam, and irrational in the same way that it is irrational to fear spiders

Really? There are plenty speaking out against it FFS.

But they appear to be mainly outside the faith. Unless you are talking about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Maybe she is just "lazy and ignorant! however she is under constant armed guard for the crime of apostasy.

You may find a few words of condemnation if you look hard enough but hardly an outpouring.

Utter utter BS /blind ignorance nearing racism and absolutely wrong

Will you avail yourself of the facts

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=muslims%20condemn%20lee%20rigby%20murder

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/26/muslim-community-responds-woolwich-killing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/24/british-muslims-condemn-savage-attack-on-drummer-lee-rigby_n_3329691.html

I am not sure whether you believe that

If you cant see that Islam is a greater threat from all of the other "groups" that you list then you are naive. They all have their nutcases however few people live in fear of Sikhism for example.

Out of interest what would your view be if a multi national force of Muslims was invading countries and then carrying out drone attacks on foreign lands --- that us by the way- still we should be shit scared of the threat they pose us and they are the war crazy ones eh..PFFFt facts **** them I dont want them to get in the way of my rant

he very least they need to work on their PR.

Still that is there fault eh

if someone was committing atrocities in my name

A billion people follow Islam but, what, they're all too scared of their own religion to speak out against the more extreme bits of it?

They do speak out in the mosques and their community events and withing their communities

unfortunately neither you nor the UK media attend these events nor reports on it

Its verging on lunacy [ and it is a whopping lie] to think they do not speak out about it tbh.

If you read 1984 it argues that s the country needs something to fear to keep the folk in line . No one knew what it would be after communism - remember they wanted to klill us all and destroy oiur very way of life as well - and now we have Islam to threaten our very way of life and a fabricated document to justify war....still bloody war crazy Muslims eh 🙄

Its BS we are invading them they are not invading us.

Are you basing how many Muslims 'speak out' against extremism on the amount of coverage it receives in the media? I don't see what else you can be basing it on and that's pretty idiotic IMO.

I have a problem with certain aspects of some versions of Islam - expecting them to all feel responsible for a lunatic fringe is ridiculous though.

JY +1

surfer - Member

Really? There are plenty speaking out against it FFS.

But they appear to be mainly outside the faith. Unless you are talking about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Maybe she is just "lazy and ignorant! however she is under constant armed guard for the crime of apostasy.

Google 'Imams against terror'

Just because they don't copy you in on the minutes doesn't mean it's not happening.

surfer, I'm not arguing with you as I don't have the time to de-programme you..

but think about folk that had to be protected when they spoke out against the IRA.. we didn't all go round being scared of our catholic grannies as a result did we?

enough of this nonsense.. It's making me feel sad

Have we really got a situation where a billion people are all following a mob mind that many of them don't actually fully believe in?

A billion people follow Islam but, what, they're all too scared of their own religion to speak out against the more extreme bits of it?

Well you obviously haven't noticed that they are fighting wars against the extremists, such as in Syria and elsewhere. And that "we" often support and encourage the extremists, as we did in Afghanistan, and still do elsewhere.

Or had you noticed but that Muslims killing each other simply isn't enough for you and you want something a little more pro-active ?

"the treatment of women restricting their rights is not religious but culturally-based." This is an argument I've heard a lot. However on my limited travels in maybe half a dozen different muslim ccountries and Kashmir I've never seen it. Also if choice is involved, I've always been fascinated by how in some countries all the women seem to make the same choices about their attire.

I've always been fascinated by how in some countries all the women seem to make the same choices about their attire.

And the men don't seem to make the same choices about their attire ?

You can't get a clue concerning what country you might be in by looking at what attire the men choose ?

Regardless of everyone else's beliefs or efforts, Islam seems to be making a fair fist of demonising itself in our society at the moment. When it condemns terrorism across the board, renounces Sharia law, stops persecuting its own womenfolk, and promotes blanket tolerance towards non-Muslims, then it can come and play with the other children again.

Yes but we all know you are the intolerant lot* 🙄

* SATIRE CONTENT

we didn't all go round being scared of our catholic grannies as a result did we?

Anyone here been following the Tower Hamlets election fiasco?

Seems to have been some remarkably dodgy dealings going on!

There's a certain irony of claiming that Muslims in "our society", as Cougar puts it, are intolerant of others when the parties of intolerance made huge sweeping gains throughout Europe last week.

I guess it was a commitment to tolerance that attracted all those votes which resulted in UKIP winning a nationwide election last week 🙂

when it all kicked off royally a few years back the Immams and mosques were doing precisely what you say they are not doing..

Good. But as I said, if that is the case then they have a PR issue (and / or we have a media issue, but we knew that), because that's not what I heard from their appointed spokesmen on the radio and I don't recall any other media saying much different at the time.

You say this like you are some sort of expert on Muslims and what they do,

Far from it, and I've never claimed to be, though I'd like to know more. But we are discussing the wider populace's [i]perception [/i]of the Islamic faith are we not? Those perceptions aren't necessarily accurate.

If Islam is bothered about its image in the West then it needs to be more active in improving that image. If Muslims [i]aren't[/i] bothered about what non-Muslims think then that's fair enough of course, more power to their elbow. But it seems short-sighted to bleat on about "irrational fear" if the only embassadors to the faith everyone else notices are terrorists. That's not irrational fear; it's misplaced perhaps, ignorant even, but it's pretty rational if that's all people are seeing. (And of course, that could well be a failing of the ones doing the perceiving.)

What sort of access do yu think they have to media?

That's a very good point of course. I've never seen a brown person on television.

They do speak out in the mosques and their community events and withing their communities

unfortunately neither you nor the UK media attend these events nor reports on it

And there's the rub, isn't it. There's not enough visibilty, not enough communication. And if all that people see is negative, rightly or wrongly, then the rise of the opposite fringe, UKIP and worse, is all but inevitable. It's all rather depressing.

Why don't the media report on it, incidentally? Are they not bothered, or are they not allowed?

That's a very good point of course. I've never seen a brown person on television.

[img] [/img]

Cougar - Moderator

their appointed spokesmen

Who do you think "appoints" them? What usually happens is you get random imams or "community leaders" rolled out but it's like listening to the Taxpayer's Alliance or Jeremy Clarkson, the person you're hearing is the person who wants to be heard not necessarily the person "the community" would choose to speak for them.

An Imam from a mosque is in a position of leadership of that mosque; they're representative of their specific community by definition, are they not? Have I missed something there?

Well, the media often present them as such, but is that a reflection of the actual situation? Mr Khan, anyone?

They're the spiritual head of that tiny part of the community, yes. That doesn't make them authorities that can speak for them, especially on non-religious matters, let alone for the wider community. How much heed would you give to a random church of england preacher, if they were suddenly on the news telling you how christians think?

You also talk about "muslims" as if it's all one group, but you'd not accept the Pope speaking for the Church of England, or a church elder from the Wee Frees.

Anjem Choudary gets (or has had) more airtime than any other 'spokesman' yet represents a few hundred people. But his views are divisive and will cause a stir. Gory makes story.

Anjem Choudary gets (or has had) more airtime than any other 'spokesman' yet represents a few hundred people. But his views are divisive and will cause a stir. Gory makes story.

And he seems to be the "darling" of the BBC and whilst he is a nasty piece of work the BBC reaches more people than almost anything else in the UK and nobody would claim he was representative however the alternatives unelected groups referred to above are hardly representative either.

surfer - Member
And he seems to be the "darling" of the BBC and whilst he is a nasty piece of work the BBC reaches more people than almost anything else in the UK and nobody would claim he was representative however the alternatives unelected groups referred to above are hardly representative either.

What's your point, caller? That there's not really anyone who can speak for Islam as a whole? Congratulations.

Fair enough Lifer 🙄 It does make imans against terror rather meaningless and unrepresentative also, wouldnt you agree?

If Islam is bothered about its image in the West then it needs to be more active in improving that image. If Muslims aren't bothered about what non-Muslims think then that's fair enough of course, more power to their elbow. But it seems short-sighted to bleat on about "irrational fear" if the only embassadors to the faith everyone else notices are terrorists. That's not irrational fear; it's misplaced perhaps, ignorant even, but it's pretty rational if that's all people are seeing. (And of course, that could well be a failing of the ones doing the perceiving.)

Sounds like you're blaming Muslims for the fact that the media always portrays them negatively, rather than blaming the media.

Why don't the media report on it, incidentally? Are they not bothered, or are they not allowed?

The media narrative which sells newspapers is that Muslims are the 'other' - they are different and scary and full of hate for us and our western values. Anything that doesn't fit into that narrative doesn't get airtime/column inches, basically.

I don't think the Press are anti Islam any more than they were anti IRA, or recently anti UKIP, they have their little biases from time to time if they are given cause.

I do however feel remorse for what happens at times to Muslims over here at a personal level as demonstrated to a prospective son in law when he had the gall to sit with his back pack on a pile of his luggage waiting to be met at Charing Cross, what happened to him was probably what that unfortunate Brazilian lad tried to avoid and ended up being shot for it.

So it's not just the Press that are prejudiced against Religious or Racial Types. Then again he might have been a Hindu, how were they to know, it wasn't writ large on his back pack.

But why is it happening? Well we'll soon not be permitted to know exactly since the Chilcott enquiry isn't going to show who possibly the real criminal in all this is.

As to the school thing I'm against any religion being forced on kids other than that which has been the status quo for centuries here and is easily ignored without fear of death or honour killing.

If a multi national muslim task force were to say attack and depose Mugabe, then leave, I don't think I'd be headed out there with a group of Christian soldiers hell bent on jihad, holy war, or whatever, it just wouldn't happen.

Islam sadly is the religion most likely to encourage war on its behalf, that is a fact we can either appease, or ignore at our peril imv, I don't think there is another doctrine quite like it, so we should be on our guard however unpleasant it ends up being, but it doesn't make what happens to individuals at times any less unpleasant.

I don't think the Press are anti Islam any more than they were anti IRA, or recently anti UKIP, they have their little biases from time to time if they are given cause.

You don't think the Daily Mail, Daily Star/Daily Express and The Sun are anti-Islam?

[And in what way were the press Anti-UKIP by the way? They gave them a ludicrously out-of-proportion amount of free advertising.]

Islam sadly is the religion most likely to encourage war on its behalf

So what's our excuse?

surfer - Member

Fair enough Lifer It does make imans against terror rather meaningless and unrepresentative also, wouldnt you agree?

I wasn't referring to a specific group in my 'google imams against terror' post, rather the number of results of different imams/muslims/groups denouncing terrorism.

grum - Member
"Islam sadly is the religion most likely to encourage war on its behalf"

So what's our excuse?

C'mon grum, it's never holy war when we do it. Even when our leaders say it is.

Sounds like you're blaming Muslims for the fact that the media always portrays them negatively, rather than blaming the media.

I'm not blaming anyone, and I thought I'd been careful enough in my wording to make that clear but evidently not.

Whether Islam being treated with suspicion or worse by some non-Muslims is the fault of Islam itself, its practitioners, the media, confirmation bias in the observer, or good old-fashioned racism, I couldn't begin to speculate. There's almost certainly room for improvement at all levels though.

For those who claim not to be frightened by either Christianity, the Jewish faith or Islam, I suggest reading Leviticus from the Bible and the verses in the Koran concerning non Muslims.

I'm not going to look at Leviticus if it's going to frighten me.

I'm not blaming anyone, and I thought I'd been careful enough in my wording to make that clear but evidently not.

Not when you say stuff like this Cougar. Seems pretty clear who you're blaming TBH.

Regardless of everyone else's beliefs or efforts, Islam seems to be making a fair fist of demonising itself in our society at the moment. When it condemns terrorism across the board, renounces Sharia law, stops persecuting its own womenfolk, and promotes blanket tolerance towards non-Muslims, then it can come and play with the other children again.

"the treatment of women restricting their rights is not religious but culturally-based." This is an argument I've heard a lot. However on my limited travels in maybe half a dozen different muslim ccountries and Kashmir I've never seen it. Also if choice is involved, I've always been fascinated by how in some countries all the women seem to make the same choices about their attire.

As someone who has grown up around different types of Muslims from many different countries and counts many Muslims as good friends - many far more like family, I have had a lot of exposure to Islamic and cultural perspectives, values and customs. They are not the same, they are not homogenous and religion and culture can be seen as different but not isolated things. It's also worth remembering that causation and correlation are not the same thing.

If Islam is bothered about its image in the West then it needs to be more active in improving that image.

Oh and Junky +100

I really did phrase that spectacularly badly. Sorry.

The key word there was "seems" (and this is the second time I've tried to clarify that). And it does [i]seem[/i] to be; those are the impressions I get. If there is a fluffy side to Islam then it's not as readily apparent; as religions go it comes across as one of the more inflexible ones. There doesn't appear to be a lot of wiggle room like there is with, say, modern Christianity, where people can go to church for Christmas mass and forget about it for the other 364 days of the year. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.

Now, my perception could be way off. And that, as I said, could be my own failing, or the fault of the media, or the fault of the religion itself. I live in an area with an above average Asian population and even then I really know comparatively little about the [s]culture[/s] religion, so it must be even more impenetrable to the UKIP-voting middle-class middle-Englanders.

Farage-a-like makes spectacular U-turn 😀

I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.

I have certainly met semi-lapsed Muslims.

[i][b]Asked how important religion was to them 78% of British Muslims said very important, but 48% of them also said they never attended a mosque, with another 6% saying they only attended for special occassions.[/i][/b]

[url= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291&date=2013-03-21 ]NOP Poll of British Muslims[/url]

I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.
I have certainly met semi-lapsed Muslims.

Me too. They definitely exist!

That's a really interesting read Ernie, thanks.

They definitely exist!

I don't doubt they exist, I've just never knowingly met one. I've met people who have renounced Islam completely though (but not many, I can think of two offhand).

Course, it'll not be that obvious when you meet a slightly-muslim or an ex-muslim, unless they have it on a t-shirt.

Can I request a "lapsed atheist" T shirt?
😀

I've just never knowingly met one.

Perhaps they are reluctant to let you know because of how they perceive your attitude to be ?

I encourage people of different cultures/nationalities/religions to talk to me about their culture/countries/religions because I genuinely find it fascinating. And when you show interest it's surprising how much people like that and want to tell you about their culture/countries/religions.

I really did phrase that spectacularly badly. Sorry.

The key word there was "seems" (and this is the second time I've tried to clarify that). And it does seem to be; those are the impressions I get. If there is a fluffy side to Islam then it's not as readily apparent; as religions go it comes across as one of the more inflexible ones. There doesn't appear to be a lot of wiggle room like there is with, say, modern Christianity, where people can go to church for Christmas mass and forget about it for the other 364 days of the year. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.

Now, my perception could be way off. And that, as I said, could be my own failing, or the fault of the media, or the fault of the religion itself. I live in an area with an above average Asian population and even then I really know comparatively little about the culture religion, so it must be even more impenetrable to the UKIP-voting middle-class middle-Englanders.

And when you show interest it's surprising how much people like that and want to tell you about their culture/countries/religions.

Doesn't work so well when you look like you're desperately planning escape routes, looking for wires sticking out of their bags and muttering panic stricken prayers to yer maker

konabunny - Member
The focus of your commentary has changed to you from The Muslims and The Islam.

Perhaps the term should be Muslamic? Yes! 😈 Waited 7 pages to say this ... 😆

Oh ya btw if you ever lived in a Muslamic country then you should know that they practically anti all other belief systems. i.e. opposite to yours. I used to live there I know and can't be arsed to debate about it anymore. A waste of time really so just have machete style conflict will do. Plenty of zombie maggots there when religion is concerned. 😈

that's not what I heard from their appointed spokesmen on the radio and I don't recall any other media saying much different at the time.

I think you need to look at the media here rather than Muslims.
I have explained

Why don't the media report on it, incidentally? Are they not bothered, or are they not allowed?

don't think I've ever encountered anyone who would define themselves as slightly Muslim.

I know one who would describe himself thus but the reality is he is a non Muslim too scared to tell his folks

What exactly is wrong with being anti islam? I am also anti all the other religions too, however that doesn't make me a racist. Why do some people insist that religon and race are inseparable when they clearly are. I think playing the race card is a cheap way out of justifying an unjustified position. Reason and religion are irreconcilable and thats the issue I have with it.

Dont forget, the fundamentalists (Muslim, Christian etc) are chopping each other to bits in quite a few contrys in Africa at the moment.

Religion - causing problems since............well, since their imaginary wizard made the planet.

Dont forget, those old biddies who make tea in the church on sunday support an organisation who has followers that think its OK to stone gay people to death.

Where'd the 'race card' come into it?

[img] [/img]

well..

for all my selfless and vehement defence of Islam on here the last couple of days, the fella in the filling station just scowled at me like Jihad couldn't possibly come soon enough..

Suicide bombing, woman stoning ****ing **** 🙁

Here are the typical responses of singletracks racists, that I see in threads like these. Oh and....IBTGL (In before the Godwins Law).

"I'm not a racist, I'm a race realist. I believe that races are all different and multiculturalism is a bad thing"

"I'm not a Neo-Nazi, I just don't believe in the Zionist propaganda about Hitler being evil"

"I'm not Islamophobic, I just don't think that Islam has a place in the Western World"

"I'm not an antisemite, I don't hate semites."

Funny, isn't it.

Criticise Christianity and you get accused of bullying.

Criticise Islam and you get accused of racism.

Hitchens criticised Islam but one could never really accuse him of racism, maybe you can have a think as to why that is. Is it because, perhaps, that he tended not to attack Muslims in general but the religion and it's Imams instead? He also attacked Christianity, he was clearly a man who understood that there was really no difference between the types of people that called themselves Christian and those that called themselves Muslim. Instead Muslims and Christians are simply opposite sides of a terrible, terrible coin.

According to many enlightened left wing bigots, if you have a genuine concern with Islam it can only have come about through ignorance and not mingling enough. If this blinkered narrow mindlessness wasn't sad enough they then award themselves the right to throw their worst possible insults at the those who don't share their opinion. Predictable but very stupid.

Most people don't have genuine or informed concern though, do they? That's clearly demonstrated by this thread (I'm a Hitchens fan btw).

enfht thank god you were wise enough to not fall into the trap of insulting those whose views you disagree with, a beacon to us all

As you just did everything you objected to it is another of those brilliant internet posts that could be satirical genius but is, sadly, hypocrisy/stupidity.

Criticise Islam and you get accused of racism.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it's name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO. You do this whilst criticising the majority for not speaking out [ when our media gives them no voice and google will show they do]essentially you have created a straw man, of fear, and opposed that.

Like you i dislike all religions and i can dislike them for good reasons or for bad ones.
IMHO this is a bad one

Hate the terrorists not the religion.

* I am not accusing you of racism here though it can be read that way

I wish to see active discrimination against people who persecute, attack, stone, murder, masacre, alienate ... others in the name of what is written in very old books. If people think my humanist attitude makes me anti-religious, racist, xenophobic, or antisemitic because the people doing it claim to be acting in the name of some God then so be it.

You have conflated what Islam stands for and what a tiny minority of nutters do in it's name and this is the reason you are getting grief IMHO. You do this whilst criticising the majority for not speaking out [ when our media gives them no voice and google will show they do]essentially you have created a straw man, of fear, and opposed that.

I think you can critique Islam but not tar all Muslims with the same brush, which is the feeling that I get from this thread. I dislike the religion but in general don't let that affect my day to day perceptions of Muslims.

Unfortunately the Koran does help enable a small band of nutters.