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O hai you called!
I had an interesting theory presented to me on the other thread, about mask wearing in the Nations. Apparently, because Wales is historically fatter and less healthy, we need more masking, to stop us dying of Covid. I therefore claim my exemption, because I am not fat and am in fact quite healthy.
And as for being vaccinated - well, vaccines don't do much for transmission. You just need one, even if you're not particularly at risk. You also need to keep wearing the mask, even though it also doesn't do much for stopping transmission. Because you might kill someone's grandma (who is also presumably vaccinated, and with a vaccine that is apparently very effective at reducing symptoms).
Just wear the bit of cloth! It's easy, and we don't need to talk to or smile at strangers.
^^ You did attempt to formulate coherent arguments on the other thread in the main.
You've now switched to blatant trolling which has done nothing more than undermine any points you tried to make.
Far worse though, to make light of people trying to protect elderly/ infirm or both, family members, which happens to include myself and a fair few others on here.
twrch = troll.
Funny you should say that, I am basically a recovering internet addict with a penchant for trolling. I also happen to like mountain biking a lot.
Still, I stand by every word I've said.
Also - I have no issue with you doing what you gotta do to keep your family healthy and sane. I suppose the problem comes when you are convinced that someone not wearing a mask is putting your family in deadly peril, and the other person is convinced that (especially as a healthy person with no symptoms) wearing a mask creates practically no difference in the level of risk they present to the general public.
Yawn.
Still, I stand by every word I’ve said.
Yeah but you are making stuff up, like this :
Apparently, because Wales is historically fatter and less healthy, we need more masking, to stop us dying of Covid. I therefore claim my exemption, because I am not fat and am in fact quite healthy.
No one has mentioned anything about Welsh people being fatter, apart from you.
And someone pointed that the high rate of lung diseases in industrial areas can affect the level of fatalities from a virus which is known to specifically target lungs, a perfectly reasonable point.
You also don't appear to understand that wearing a face covering has nothing to do with protecting the wearer, so you being allegedly fit and healthy is irrelevant.
I don't know why you don't understand, it has been pointed out to you several times and it is not exactly complicated. Most people have no problem understanding the role of face coverings.
OP, it’s because it spoils things for them. That’s why they are angry. That, and they believe it’s a big old lie.
New in from anti-mask central:
“We were talking about it, ie what are they going to do? They are going to ruin Christmas! And lo and behold, it’s nearly Christmas…they ruined Christmas”
There we have it folks. Hirsute TV Historian-turned-GeeBeebiesJesus knew all along that this so-called ‘variant’ has been a setup by them to spoil his Christmas.
Words fail me.
And the experiment with different masks laws in Scotland and England hasn’t shown Scotland to be better off.
Well I'd always be hesitant about inferring too much from different differences north and south of the border, given there are more than just mask differences (slightly higher vaccination uptake in Scotland; a bit more working from home still happening but on the other hand shitter weather / darker nights meaning likely more indoor mixing). However if you want to make assertions as you have then you might at least get the basic facts right:
- Scotland has about 20% fewer new cases per 100K people last week than England. (Interestingly Prof Wood, the author of the Spectator article you linked to, says the Scottish Government's "scientific justification" is based on a paper that suggests a 15% reduction in transmission.)
- R number in England is estimated to be >1, but is probably ~1 (or maybe below) in Scotland
If you have an R number of 1.1 then something that can reduce that by even 10% is hugely significant! If it can do so without a huge impact on people or economies (which has other long term health effects) then it's surely a no brainer - if you allow R>1 you risk inevitable further more draconian measures?
In fact is it possible that risk compensation may balance out any benefit from masks as people feel safer and increase social contact and are less careful about spacing?
Whilst much noise is made about risk compensation the limited scientific evidence seems to suggest it is overstated: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2913. My anecdotal experience is that social distancing is being less well adhered to parts of England where mask-wearing is low than in parts of Scotland where mask-wearing is high - so rather the opposite effect seems to be happening - people are interpreting "don't have to wear a mask" as "get back to normal" (FWIW 2m distancing is rare even in Scotland).
Words fail me.
Five minutes in,
"a desire to lean on a crotch".
4mins in
“Masks don’t work”
So there we have it. It’s all very much mock-earnestly
But they are pushing the boat out announcing now that ‘masks don’t work’.
Ofcom still won’t touch it. Guaranteed.
Reading hundreds of comments of angry anti-maskers it becomes clear that many/most of that demographic are fully convinced that we (under Boris Johnson) have so far suffered ‘draconian’ lockdowns and mandates as per the likes of China or Singapore. But they can’t of course explain why (to date):
UK = +2000 COVID deaths per million
Singapore= 128 COVID deaths per million
(also worth noting:)
UK population density: 281 per Km2
Singapore population density: 8,019 per Km2
It's the likes of Julia Hartley-Brewer and Laurence Fox constantly stirring this up on SM.
They are responsible for a lot of the vacant anger of the alt-right pushing against the best interest of society.
You see, these people are angry and they are targeting the wrong things in society. Often the thing that serves them. They use freedom as the excuse whilst ignoring anything the government has actually done to erode liberties or damage democracy.
Anger at the NHS is pretty much the next target too.
You create market led economies and you breed this attitude.
It's a warped sense of libertarianism.
We've lost the ability to care.
I find it v difficult to do my job as photographer wearing a mask because it makes the viewfinder steam up and basically become unusable. If anyone has any bright ideas regarding that I’m all ears.
Can't you just use an LCD monitor?
As a film maker/camera operator this is how we have got by. We mount 5" screens to everything instead of using an eye-piece.
a bit more working from home still happening
Pretty sure Scotland never had, and likely still doesn’t have particularly high levels of WFH. Not really sure what it is now, but I’ve not seen anything to suggest higher rates than the rUK to any notable amount.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/homeworkingintheuklabourmarket2020
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-8-4-million-were-working-from-home-last-year-as-pandemic-struck-12309068
Is there anything for 2021?
I find it v difficult to do my job as photographer wearing a mask because it makes the viewfinder steam up and basically become unusable. If anyone has any bright ideas regarding that I’m all ears.
Hold you breath sniper style.
I'd like to see that bawbag Oliver shot with a ball of his own shite.
Why do these folk actually think that the government want to kill Christmas? Weird.
You also need to keep wearing the mask, even though it also doesn’t do much for stopping transmission. Because you might kill someone’s grandma (who is also presumably vaccinated, and with a vaccine that is apparently very effective at reducing symptoms).
It’s not about absolutes. Vaccines are not 100% effective against severe symptoms or death, and masks aren’t 100% effective at stopping transmission.
If masks stop some transmission and stop some serious infections or death in those where the vaccine isn’t 100% effective, or the unvaccinated, are they not worth wearing in more crowded spaces?
I hate wearing them to be honest, I have doubts how effective they are, but I’ll stick one on as advised because I’m ill equipped to put forward an intelligent, informed argument to counter the advice given by people who actually know this stuff.
I don’t personally see the need as I’m vaccinated.
2 years in and someone comes out with this?
Can’t you just use an LCD monitor?
As a film maker/camera operator this is how we have got by. We mount 5″ screens to everything instead of using an eye-piece.
Maybe too much of a thread hijack but... I am one of those luddites who still uses DSLR cameras with an actual mirror box/viewfinder. It does have Live View but it's pretty slow and crap to focus compared to using the viewfinder. I assume an LCD monitor would just give me the same as Live View. Would work for some slower-moving stuff I guess.
I tend to shoot a lot of weddings and events documentary style with fast primes fairly wide open so need to be pretty quick/accurate with focussing.
I have wondered about updating to all mirrorless stuff which I guess would make using a screen easier as it's designed around an electronic screen in the viewfinder. Or just get more into doing video anyway seeing as that's the way of the world increasingly.
And @martinhutch I have tried one brand of lens fogging stuff but with limited success, any recommendations?
I find it v difficult to do my job as photographer wearing a mask because it makes the viewfinder steam up and basically become unusable. If anyone has any bright ideas regarding that I’m all ears.
2 years in and someone comes out with this?
Yep, a good example of how people just don't understand it. Yet those same people are against those very things they don't understand.
I find it v difficult to do my job as photographer wearing a mask because it makes the viewfinder steam up and basically become unusable. If anyone has any bright ideas regarding that I’m all ears.
Then you drop the mask whilst looking in the viewfinder, but wear it the rest of the time. And everyone else continues to wear theirs. Not a show stopper is it?
Why do these folk actually think that the government want to kill Christmas? Weird.
I’m not 100% convinced that GBN presenters, (same with Talk Radio, US right-wing channels) actually believe their own shite, it’s just cash-money guaranteed clicks to constantly press their devoted fan’s buttons. To rattle the monkey-cage. Tabloidism. It’s a well-tried business model and goes back at least centuries. Of course virtually all media uses outrage-bait which appeals to their audience/demographic - but these kind of channels are arguably the most cynical and unprincipled grifters of all.
They are literally happy (and paid very well) to worsen the pandemic/situation by giving out bad/deadly ‘advice’ (actually opposing public health experts).
When the inevitable then happens (ongoing pandemic, new variants) they can then utilise this news to rattle the monkey-cage some more. ‘We told you so, those the shadowy Christmas-hating commies had this up their sleeves all along, now you HAVE to believe us!’
It’s a very, very effective way to stoke division and ensure brand-loyalty.
The viewers literally see that bloke off Coast and that bloke off Balls Of Steel as some kind of Saint-Warrior-Saviours who have been delivered unto them in their time of need. Figureheads to lead them maskless and unvaccinated into freedom as they slay the ‘Elites’ the experts, and most of all those Orcs of ‘socialism’ by helping destroy the NHS (and the economy) along the blue-brick road to that Trumptastic Disneyland of their dreams.
I feel like I’m stuck in a fevered mutating nightmare which used to be my country.
No one has mentioned anything about Welsh people being fatter, apart from you.
We are on average fatter though, but it's because we are on average poorer due to centuries of exploitation by the English and subsequent abandonment after they used up all our natural resources. That's why we need to wear masks and also to portray us as better than the English. See also Scotland.
(note this post is deliberately antagonistic and nationalistic for the hell of it 🙂 )
the problem comes when you are convinced that someone not wearing a mask is putting your family in deadly peril
Well individually not necessarily but en-masse, they could well be.
(this part is serious)
I don’t personally see the need as I’m vaccinated.
Just because you don't see the need, doesn't mean it's not there. You've got scientists testing this stuff all the time, and they are lining up to tell you to wear one.
I can't stress this enough: YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Then you drop the mask whilst looking in the viewfinder, but wear it the rest of the time. And everyone else continues to wear theirs. Not a show stopper is it?
Which is mostly what I do, but it is a pain. Much of what makes me good at my job is being quite alert and instinctive about looking for good moments/interactions/facial expressions etc. I would also need to be dropping and lifting the mask potentially hundreds of times a day, and IIRC really you're not meant to touch them once they're on.
I'm not saying it's impossible and I mostly do it, but there's no denying it's limiting and potentially a bit redundant.
And everyone else continues to wear theirs.
Except at KMF I would estimate only around 10% of people were wearing masks, even in crowded indoor areas.
Why do these folk actually think that the government want to kill Christmas? Weird
Is it so they can permanently rename it Winterfest?
They want to steal your Christmas Winterval tree and give it to a disabled asylum seeker so they can use it to bum the Queen's swans, while good honest British folk go to jail just for speaking English.
You couldn't make it up.
I sometimes feel anger at non mask wearers. Quite strongly sometimes!
Have to say to myself "settle down YGH, it's just a mask - not exactly warranting that reaction!"
I've never actually said or done anything, but maybe people who are offended by masks and have poorer impulse control than me lash out?
The comments under the Oliver video are a hoot. Each time someone asks for a link or a source, it's just a link back to youtube or, even better, tiktok.
Surprisingly, I've yet to see a link to a medical study.
Social media - helping morons find other morons.
They want to steal your Christmas Winterval tree and give it to a disabled asylum seeker so they can use it to bum the Queen’s swans, while good honest British folk go to jail just for speaking English.
You couldn’t make it up.
yep, sadly people genuinely believe that sort of stuff. One of our engineers wanted to bet me £50 that my street would be over run my Muslins in 10 years (as there is a new mosque down the road) and as a white person I've be forced to move out. He had a univeristy degree (in Engineering) and everything. Seems education isn't quite as good a vaccine against stupidity as you'd expect.
I tried to point out that there had been an old mosque even closer to us, for the last 50 years, and that hadn't changed anything, but to no effect.
More importantly, neither of those two people in the video can stop looking at the camera! Makes it really weird to watch....
As a glaasses-wearing dslr photographer, it is pretty difficult, especially in this colder weather. Both my glasses and viewfinder steam up instantly and I do find myself trying to hold my breath.
But, one suggestion is to put something like micropore tape across the top of the mask, along your nose and cheeks. This blocks the warm breath and forces it out the sides instead. I noticed that my optician had done this to prevent his instruments and glasses steaming up with his mask on.
It’s a warped sense of libertarianism.
For the majority of the Julia Hartley-Brewer, Laurence Fox, Neil Oliver crowd its nothing to do with philosophy. It's the egotistical fear of not being noticed that most people grow out of at perhaps 17 or 18.
Today’s gem in wearing masks is…
So far today I'm at 25% non compliant customers who won't put a mask on or didn't have one.... All exclusively male, either under 25 or over 60....
Unfortunately I can't afford to loose 25% of takings.
Where does the tru-Brit-grit-shit we won the war attitude go to?
Maybe flag masks are the answer?
Today’s gem in wearing masks is…
A ram ****s all the sheep.
Perfect analogy in one way.
Boots No Fog lens wipes work for me. To hours a day in masks and this is the best I found sin e I finished my old bottle of Oakley antifouling.
I don't think you can underestimate the power of peer pressure/social pressure to be honest. Once it gets to the point where most people in a shop or any public place aren't wearing them then I think a significant portion of people who actually have no opinion one way or the other will stop wearing them as well.
I actually think it's pretty understandable- I went for a take-out coffee this morning and was the only one wearing a mask in a queue of about 8 people. I did feel a bit ridiculous to be honest and I'm a 40 year old bloke who by and large doesn't really care what people think all that much.
For what's its worth I don't really like wearing them at all and find them annoying and tedious to carry around but I wear them as I figure you can't really argue with the science.
Re:
I can’t stress this enough: YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
If you find yourself disagreeing with the advice from people who have spent years being educated in, trained in, gaining experience in, and it being their literal job to be expert in, a particular field* then the first question you must ALWAYS ask yourself is:
Am I a genius or am I wrong?
The chances of it being the former are always slimmer than the latter.
If you find yourself convinced that you're not wrong then you'd better also have the knowledge, expertise, experience and evidence to explain and convince people why you are now the pioneering new expert in that field.
*especially so when that field is not your area of expertise.
I think Derek Richardson his animals mixed up. He meant to say:
Don't Be a Chicken, Be a Cock!!!!
you’d better also have the knowledge, expertise, experience and evidence to explain and convince people why you are now the pioneering new expert in that field.
Hold on, they have YouTube so are able to do their own research.
What I can’t ever figure out is why these people think that the government, scientists, the media etc would go to all the trouble of conspiring against them specifically?
What would any of these groups hope to achieve by this?
New Star Wars prequel to detail evil Sith plans to make everyone wear a cloth mask while shopping
Yes a functioning, healthy population is quite desirable.
(Governments are coercive for sure and do all manner of shit but on Covid they all got caught out of their depth, but probably did not deliberately try to make things worse.)
I really do feel for the shop owners though.
It's a lose lose for them.
If you find yourself disagreeing with the advice from people who have spent years being educated in, trained in, gaining experience in, and it being their literal job to be expert in, a particular field* then the first question you must ALWAYS ask yourself is:
Am I a genius or am I wrong?
Very true, however I've noticed plenty of people masquerading as qualified experts. Of course there are some genuinely qualified people that take the contrary view from the rest of their peers however I've noticed a huge rise in charlatans.
Take for example the amount of "doctors" on social media that spout anti-vax stuff and conspiracy theories. To those that share their views, the fact they're a "doctor" adds credibility and weight to their viewpoint and garners support. However a quick click through to their social media page or often their own webpage uncovers the fact that they're a "doctor" of homeopathy or some other nonsense and they're in no way a medical doctor or PhD, but on the surface they appear qualified and credible to the gullible.
What I can’t ever figure out is why these people think that the government, scientists, the media etc would go to all the trouble of conspiring against them specifically?
Ask and the Daily Mash will provide an answer!
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What would any of these groups hope to achieve by this?
I don't think most anti-maskers have actually given it much thought beyond "I don't want to" Judging by what I hear in the waiting room, most folks seem to say the first thing that pops into their heads once they've realised their real reason makes them sound like a 4 year old who's been told they have to go home from the park now.
I really do feel for the shop owners though.
It’s a lose lose for them.
Not sure about that. I've been steering clear of busy shops full of unmasked punters and buying stuff online more. I'm a lot more comfortable going in and spending money if everyone is masked up, and I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm not the only one.
Oh they get better.
Can you cope not wearing one? My Mum didn't wear one when she was in the Land Army. Dad always bragged about landing on the Normandy beach with dry boots - should he having taken the order to drop from the landing board before it reached the dry sand? His mate did and got shot in the head. How many times have you washed your hands today? Don't forget to be a good girl and do as you are told. eg. Stay safe - the NHS is overstretched so can't treat you if you don't!
I’m a lot more comfortable going in and spending money if everyone is masked up, and I have a sneaking suspicion that I’m not the only one.
This is why we have a mask policy in my shop - don't understand the supermarkets attitude of 'we don't want to police it'....
I've several regular customers who will walk out if some one walks in without a mask or over the 2 at a time limit.
One regular antivax/mask customer came in everyday like this (and today)...
So obviously he's now only referenced as Drac when talked about privately.
We also had a customer who used a bunch of carrots as a mask - now called Bugs.
That’s not me.
😄
I'd call him The Count, or something like that.
Local Tesco at lunch near me had damn near 100% mask compliance which is hugely up on last week. I think there was one female college student and one middle age women without.
Not bad at all.
Oh they get better.
Isn't he being sarcastic?
Oh they get better.
Where's that from Drac? It's like a stream of consciousness...
Isn’t he being sarcastic?
No, deadly serious.
Facebook NickC
Am I a genius or am I wrong?
It's not even about being a genius, it's about having done the work and studied the science, for years. I'm sure Einstein wouldn't know that much about viruses, but I'm equally sure he'd have worn a mask because he'd understand how science works and respect those who've been working in it for decades.
Re steaming up - some of my wife's homemade masks are good for me when I'm wearing glasses because they have a decent length of the wire that you use for training roses and stuff to walls in the garden across the nose piece. It's more malleable than what you get in the standard masks and it fits across my nose which closes off the holes by my nose that breath would escape from.
So perhaps different masks or mask modding might work. Maybe slip in a bit of the stripped copper wire from electrical cable or something.
Marina Hyde seems to have had enough of anti-mask bullshit.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/30/anti-mask-blitz-war-public-good
Don't get it either
i cant see a negative to wearing one, ive encouraged my 10 yo lad to wear one all the time in shops etc.. as i cant see how it can be a bad thing.
i ride regularly with an anti vax/masker and as far as we got was deciding it was best not to mention it either way..
I do however, ask myself. .what if i am wrong? what if it is some sort of conspiracy... i mean, there is always a chance right?
The thing with conspiracies is that there’s always some ultimate, worthwhile end goal from which the conspirators benefit
It’s difficult to see what is achieved by anybody in making everyone wear a piece of cloth over there face in Tesco
what if it is some sort of conspiracy
To make us all wear a mask? Don't get me wrong, I love a good conspiracy, but it's hardly faking landing on a moon or assassinating heads of state, is it? The Americans have got QAnon which seem to have decided that the Democrats are literally Satan worshipping baby eaters... and we've got; wear a mask...I mean I know we generally end up with a shit version of what's going on in the States, but this is a new low. It's embarrassing
If you find yourself disagreeing with the advice from people who have spent years being educated in, trained in, gaining experience in, and it being their literal job to be expert in, a particular field* then the first question you must ALWAYS ask yourself is:
Am I a genius or am I wrong?
The chances of it being the former are always slimmer than the latter.....
*especially so when that field is not your area of expertise.
If we all adopted that approach the STW servers would be a lot smaller.....
what if it is some sort of conspiracy… i mean, there is always a chance right?
No.
Conspiracy theories have (very) occasionally turned out to be fact, but they don't tend to involve the entire world and as Binners says, what would be the point?
If you think it's some sort of population control then you haven't paying attention for the last five years. We're already under control, that ship sailed a long time ago I'm afraid.
I don't like wearing one. But I do, to help keep COVID down. It's that simple.
The Americans have got QAnon which seem to have decided that the Democrats are literally Satan worshipping baby eaters…
Anyone else amazed at the times we live in when even the biggest pedants on stw cannot now say, "that's not the correct use of the word, literally" in a sentence containing that content?
I mean, wtaf!😁
Just because I love prodding the narrow minded here. I thought about this today and took notice. Those wearing a mask were the obviously better off and going by their speech better educated. Srtacks of masks worn in Waitrose but few in Lidls. We all know that to a great extent we can jusge someones back ground and beliefs by their appearance ( Well according to the loony lefties here!) Well I would bet that the middle classes that I saw were the ones toeing the line and it was those you would judge to be from the working class who were not. OOOh I can't wait for it. Bit like the way people react when I point out that the discrimination, racism etc in our society is usually the so called working clas. Bring it on!
As to why any one doesn't wear as mask.Sheer bloody selfishness and stuff any form of social justification.
Marina Hyde seems to have had enough of anti-mask bullshit.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/30/anti-mask-blitz-war-public-good/blockquote >
Sums up my thoughts entirely.
If you think it’s some sort of population control then you haven’t paying attention for the last five years.
If you think wearing a mask is some sort of population control then you haven't been paying attention in biology class either
they got passed over for Strictly and that thing in the castle spotted
"I'm a celebrity, trebuchet me out of here" ?
the biggest pedants on stw cannot now say, “that’s not the correct use of the word, literally”
Seems like correct usage to me?
^^ That's the point Cougar. It's insane that some people literally believe the Dems are satanic worshipping baby eaters.😁
Just because you don’t see the need, doesn’t mean it’s not there. You’ve got scientists testing this stuff all the time, and they are lining up to tell you to wear one.
I can’t stress this enough: YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Can you point me towards evidence that wearing face coverings in a retail setting reduces covid transmission? Or even that covid transmission is prevalent in retail? Our government doesn't think it is "Shopping has consistently been one of the most commonly reported exposures among cases;
however, four case-control studies have not shown any indication that shopping is associated
with increased odds of becoming a COVID-19 case. (high confidence)
"
Appropriate PPE has it's place as long as there is evidence to back up it's usage. Face coverings aren't PPE and the evidence doesn't support mandating their usage in retail environments. I'm absolutely not anti-mask and using them in crowded public transport settings is likely at least slightly beneficial.
Ah, the “I’m alright so bollocks to everyone else” argument. I’ll remind you of that when my stroke-survivor and double kidney failure near-80 mother is dead because some **** thought it was an infringement on their civil liberties to be asked not to sneeze on her.
It’s a bit of cloth. Think it’s pointless if you like, but grow the hell up.
I'd consider it very rude to sneeze on her. However as someone at risk she should be free to make here own decisions on how much she can do to protect herself rather than relying on the very weak protection offered by other people wearing face coverings.
However as someone at risk she should be free to make here own decisions on how much she can do to protect herself rather than relying on the very weak protection offered by other people wearing face coverings.
I don't want to know you. That's as politely as I can put it.
Not sure about that. I’ve been steering clear of busy shops full of unmasked punters and buying stuff online more
Then that's what I mean it's lose lose as they've lost a customer.