Another what Car - Westfield or Caterham £15k

I'm not on expert on either, but for the simple point that you want the option of selling on in a years' time then Caterham. Likely to be the easier sell-on than a Westfield. That's from a simple I've-not-really-looked-into-this point of view though, so I could be wrong but it's my first thought on Caterham vs Westfield.

I'd go Caterham. Even with lower BHP (how much power do you really need in these!).

Westfield are now in that phoenix-bust cycle that seem to haunt kit-car makers. And I've always thought of Westfield as kit-cars and Caterham as proper cars.

I've never driven either though but a Caterham would feature in my lottery-win garage! 😀 

I've had a friend who has had several Caterhams and when choosing the first one we saw some Westfields, they were not as nice. Though Caterhams are incredibly basic. The less tuned ones were pretty reliable, easy to work on if required and fast. The R400 was disturbingly fast but a bit fragile and expensive (engine) to look after. As to handling, my friend's experience has been that suspension setup and tyres are critical and simply having a passenger unsettles them.

Friend of mine had a Westfield. Bits kept falling off it while he was driving, including one memorable occasion when the bonnet came off.

Get the Caterham. It'll feel fast even with entry level power.

I built a Westfield a few years ago, as are most (I'm guessing here) so build quality will depend on the original builder. Obviously many Caterhams are home made, but I get the impression that many are built from a complete kit of parts from Caterham. Yes, you can get all the parts you need from Westfield (or could when I did it) but many don't (like me). This makes it easier and results in a more consistent build.

If I just wanted to drive something, I'd go Caterham. I got as much fun building as I did driving, so happy with going Westfield.

As you're (maybe) going to sell it soon, it also makes sense to look at Caterhams. 

Friend of mine had a Westfield. Bits kept falling off it while he was driving, including one memorable occasion when the bonnet came off.

Reminds me of my uncle having to use a shoe lace as a throttle cable to make it to Le Mans in his Westfield

I know someone who bought a Westfield for 10k. He lunched the gearbox and it went for a full inspection where they found lots of other wear and tear. Long story short, getting it back on the road cost him 10k +. He was too ashamed to tell us the full amount. 

If he wanted to sell it it's worth about 8-9k. He's practically married to it now.

Pointless story sorry. Just buy whatever looks cool, they're all very similar from the driving seat.

As a passenger, I politely decline journeys in 7 style cars now.

I had a Caterham a good long time ago, a basic and oldish one but blimey, it was fun to drive. It also had a habit of throwing bits of itself onto the road, great car, but an expensive hobby! 

I'd not be too sure on them retaining value, especially if you need to offload it in a shortish timescale to realise cash. That's my experience anyway, though as I said, it was a long time ago. 

A friend of mine built a Westfield years ago, it had (I think) a 2.2lt Mondeo engine in it  and it was insanely quick. I journeyed down to Wales in it a few time. The A roads were a scream. The motorways, in the rain, alongside lorries was frankly terrifying. 

Do they holder their value like Caterhams?

No, nowhere near

2. Do they drive as well as Caterhams? From looking at forums it appears to be very mixed views on this, but many recockon they dont.

Out of the box, a Westfield drives nowhere near as good as a Caterham, but they can be made to be quite similar if you know what you're doing

3. Should I be put off by gas adjustable suspension on Westfields which appears to be very common at that price point.

Never heard of this, so don't know

4. Are Westfields a nice place to sit ie is the build / finish as good as Caterham (yes I know people say that Caterham isnt great)

All depends on who built the Westfield, could be as good as a Caterham, but probably not. 

Caterham easier to build. 

I owned a Caterham for 20 years, I'd choose the caterham

Caterham every time.

Engine building mate of mine has had a few Westfields. Two of which nearly killed him in identical ways - with the propshaft detaching behind the gearbox and pole vaulting him and the car into the air.

You thought about an Elise? 99% of the driving experience but with a roof that actually works and the potential for when it chooses to wrap itself around a lamppost at 70mph in the rain, you might walk away?

I owned a Westfield pre-lit, many years ago when I went through my first mid life crisis. Only car I ever made money on! Buy in winter, sell in summer FTW.

I'd buy a caterham - too many Westies are lashed up self build specials, so you're trusting the owner/builder.

Having owned one that was woefully underpowered (75bhp ish) it was slow but didn't feel it. I reckon a 130bhp one is going to be about right for a first timer. Try the wide body and watch how big your feet are as the pedals are teeny tiny.

This might come in handy:

https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/what-bike-rack-are-you-using-to-transport-the-turbo-levo.708/

watch how big your feet are as the pedals are teeny tiny.

ah yes, very much this. One of my mates, (the one who wrapped his Elise around the lamppost in the foreground above) built a Fisher Fury (think Caterham with a body) I got in it and took it down the Redditch bypass a couple of days after passing its SVA, only to discover that my size 10s were a tad wide for the pedal box. My right foot became trapped on the accelerator so I had to brake with my left foot. Every time I change gear it would redline as I couldn't release my foot.

Home made bike racks on silly cars rule!

I actually built a Westfield back in 1999/2000
SEI wide with independent rear suspension, a 1.8 ford zetec putting out 155bhp with twin Weber 40's and fancy camshafts
Gearbox and diff were out of a low mile sierra donor , front uprights off a Cortina or something but everything else was new.
IIRC it was a 15k build, I had a f*ucking riot driving it, but sadly sold it as I'd emigrated and needed the money on a deposit for a house. I sold it at 8 years old for 12.5k
If I wanted to buy it back now, I'd think I'd be paying much the same.
As a above, not all builds are equal and the attention to detail of the builder and version of car is key as there was a period where you could put together some right rubbish..
There's such a variety as well as far as powertrain options. I built just before little wheels and motorbike engines became popular, but at that time it was either v8, zetec, Ford Pinto or Vauxhall power. There were a few Toyota 4age engines cars and some crazy s2000 builds too.
I tracked mine a couple of times but mostly mega fun road miles with the doors off and "Westfield nose"
This forum is the wrong place to ask about Caterham and Westfield though and you'd do better over at wscc forum.
If I had the money, I'd absolutely do another, although the largely otiginal mk1 GTI that I had as a temporary toy was also fun.
How times chance as our 15 year old mazda5 family car is Duratec powered which is also a Westfield engine option.
Wscc.co.uk for the forum

My father-in-law had a Westfield for many years (specifically for hill-climbing) – he spent hours working on it and many, many ££££££s upgrading it – custom exhausts, Ford Puma 1.7 Zetec engine re-mapped to almost 200bhp, various suspension upgrades etc etc etc. When he got too old, he sold it for (IIRC) £14,000 to a dealer. Several months later the dealer eventually sold it at a significant loss which was a shame as it was an immaculate example but, as said above, they don't hold their value as people often question how well-built they were in the first place.

It was a great car, but only for hill-climbing (and the occasional track day) but, again as said above, an Elise is almost as much fun with fewer drawbacks (and they continue to appreciate in value).

I'd probably pick Caterham over Westfield.

Have a couple of mates who had Westies - build quality varied depending who's built it and what they've built it with, new/used engine & gearbox etc.

Plus not sure what the parts situation is now that they're under new ownership.

Gaz are just the brand of the adjustable shocks - rebuildable and pretty reliable from what I've read.

Caterham will probably hold the money better, but again go off build quality.

Regardless of what you get would probably be well worth taking it somewhere and have the suspension set up properly with ride height and corner weighting etc.

I had a Westfield SEi which was a factory built car (non Q reg) with a 2.0L 16v Zetec engine and it was great.  Used it as my daily car for 3 years and 20,000 miles.  Not as nice to look at as fibreglass rather than aluminium alloy so a bit "rounded" and a bit heavier but much nicer place to sit (or at least my one was)

Nightmare to find a buyer for and had to almost give it away so would be Caterham for me now given the choice.  

The advice to get an elise is wise.  An elise is far better than a 7 type of car on the road. It's only on the race track that a 7 type of car can start to make more sense than an elise. 

I had an elise in 1999 before I got the caterham.

Can you get an Elise for 15k? Other option in a similar vein is the VX220.
Not an expert but my first car was a kit car, that I bought of the original builder. Overall it was okay but did need some remedial work carried out.
From when I was into it, 25 years ago now, the Caterhams held their value better than a Westfield.

Edit: Just checked the piston heads classifieds and there are a handful in there that are under or near 15k, result.

I really wanted a caterham, ideally a small engine in prisoner colours. Reliving childhood dreams etc. I managed to get a track day in one and realized I didn't want one after all, certainly not on the road! Great fun but Jesus I don't think I'd be in one piece for long. I think I'd already used my 9 lives up on bikes

Mate had an Elise, lovely looker. He totalled it but walked away 

There are a few places doing hire when I last looked, worth a shot to see if you really want one ? Or a track day.

I think of all the kit cars the Caterham probably most suit your plan to resell again without losing much money.

Ive had 2 Tiger kit cars (Caterham 7 clone) a Cat E1 (too much Sierra in it) and an R6 which was a factory build. I had a nightmare of a job getting spare parts for the E1 as I had a Toyota 4AGE in it which needed different engine mounts etc - and when I came to sell it that wasn’t a lot of fun.

The factory build R6 was a much better car and I sold it very easily.

So personally unless you’re very good with mechanics and have time on your hands I’d try to find a factory build Caterham built from all new parts. 

Just to add some flavour on a 7 car vs Elise I’ve had the 2.2 engined Vauxhall VX220 which is an Elise chassis broadly.

The vx220 was still quite a raw driving experience - very sparse cabin and the engine being right behind your head is great from a noise perspective. However the heater works, it has proper doors and the roof is easy to take on and off in minutes.

The Tigers were next level of rawness, both had a heater that sometimes worked, windscreen wipers that sometimes worked and you have lived until you’ve had stones bouncing off the top of your head or getting hit hard by bumble bees. 

The R6 was incredible though - it had a 2 litre zetec on twin Weber carbs and had straight cut gears in the type 9 gearbox. 2nd gear was extra long and ran to nearly 70mph from memory. 

Either way you’re going to have a lot of fun I’d say. Just perhaps get a test drive in an Elise / vx220 and then a 7 type car and see what is more likely to suit you. 

You can get a nice Series 2 Elise with a Toyota engine (no K series head gasket failure worries) for £15K (on Lotus Forums). I'd go for that unless you really want the Lotus7 type experience and if that is the case.. Caterham all day long

Posted by: tonyg2003

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You can get a nice Series 2 Elise with a Toyota engine (no K series head gasket failure worries) for £15K (on Lotus Forums). I'd go for that unless you really want the Lotus7 type experience and if that is the case.. Caterham all day long

Is that actually the case? I feel like some people on here haven't looked at car prices in a while.

I was looking for a Toyota powered S2 and they were 15-16k 5 years ago. Without checking I'd bet decent ones are 20+ now.

Some interesting points raised. Weirdly more ownership of Westfield than Caterham, but more bias towards not getting a Westfield 

Not really thought about the proper logic of Westfield being a chassis that you bolt random stuff to where as the Caterham being a ‘buy off the shelf’

Ive looked at Elise but they are too expensive for the ones that are good condition, plus having driven both, the Elise is too raw to make it an every day car (which I don’t need anyhow) so may as well go the full hog on a completely fun car.

Besides which more chance getting a 20kg ebike on a Caterham than Elise 😀

I actually built a Westfield back in 1999/2000

Haha! I forgot wscc was where I first saw your username. Blimey, it's 21-ish years back when I bought my westie. Time for another midlife crisis maybe? 🤔

Yep pretty good S2 Elise are £15k provided you don't want an ultra low mileage or higher performance edition. The are a couple of well cared ones today on the SELOC forum today.

Too raw? Caterhams are a world of difference more raw to an Elise but if you want raw get a Caterham. I drove in the Elise last Saturday - 175miles to a track day, drove all day and drove home. Most people would trailer a Caterham to do that.

Too raw? Caterhams are a world of difference more raw to an Elise but if you want raw get a Caterham.

My logic on that is that my daily is a Merc E class. I’ve had BMW’s in the past which pretend to be sports cars but are far from it

An Elise sits in between full on Caterham and say Porsche Boxster. 

This car is purely a road toy. I live on the Welsh boarders with some great driving roads on my doorstep 😊

These cars look ace.

I've never been in one, but did have a go in an elise, xxxx me it felt fast (borderline scary), simply because it was so small. Felt way faster than my boxster which on paper is faster 

I don't reckon you need much power in a car that size. My boxster feels way faster than my much more powerful estate car, just because of how small it feels. So you can actually have fun in it whilst keeping within the speed limit

I reckon those type 7 cars would feel fast doing 40....buy one, you only live once! 

Posted by: julians

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The advice to get an elise is wise.  An elise is far better than a 7 type of car on the road. It's only on the race track that a 7 type of car can start to make more sense than an elise. 

I had an elise in 1999 before I got the caterham.

 

Having been taken for rides in a Caterham and driven an Elise, I'd get an Elise, even if I had to stretch the budget. Caterhams and Westfields are wasted on roads. 

Not been in a Caterham or a Westfield but did have a test drive in a duratec GBS Zero. Maybe 130bhp? It was nuts. I'd go with the Caterham over the Westfield because you'll never need the additional power you might get in a £15k Westfield and the Caterham will always be more re-sellable.

Elise not insanely raw enough? You could always then save up to take a trip to HPE. 240brake of vtec madness in an Elise is a very special thing. 

Posted by: TheFlyingOx

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Not been in a Caterham or a Westfield but did have a test drive in a duratec GBS Zero. Maybe 130bhp? It was nuts. I'd go with the Caterham over the Westfield because you'll never need the additional power you might get in a £15k Westfield and the Caterham will always be more re-sellable.

I like what GBS do. They design and build a lot of their own components and the kit is constantly improving. I haven't checked in for a few years though. They have regular open days at the factory where you can check out customer cars.

If I wanted to build my own car that's where I'd start looking. I was tempted until I sacrificed my garage space for built-in bike storage.

Caterhams and Westfields are wasted on roads. 

Rubbish, I loved driving mine on the road and they are the only cars that feel like they do, an Elise feels too much like a normal car.  The one to get, as per the comments around not needing much power would be the Caterham 160.  80BHP with narrow tyres and very light is perfect for whizzing around country lanes. 

Posted by: hot_fiat

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Two of which nearly killed him in identical ways - with the propshaft detaching behind the gearbox and pole vaulting him and the car into the air.

😳😱🫣

Posted by: MoreCashThanDash

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Caterhams and Westfields are wasted on roads. 

All depends on the road, though…

Owned a Westie, driven a couple of Catherham. I'd say 1: The quality of both depend heavily on the previous owners ability to look after them (or build them). I've seen immaculate Westies and Catherhams that look like sheds and vice versa. and 2. Do you have a garage that big enough to work on them and do you know your way around spannering? For sure both are pretty basic and doubtless there's loads on line now, but you will find yourself lying on your back staring up at some oil covered engine/transmission/suspension/chassis part that isn't working, and you have to be prepared for that and acknowledge its part of the ownership experience of these cars. 

Have a look at Toybox Cars, they have some nice stuff on there

You thought about an Elise? 99% of the driving experience but with a roof that actually works

This made me smile, I've had an S2 where the roof wasn't bad but still leaked and I've an S1 160 round the back of the house I'm trying to get back on the road after it's been SORNd for 7 or so years and the roof fitment is shite. I will however admit it is better than no roof at all.

When I went shopping for a "play" car I ended up with an M100 Elan, as it had a proper convertible roof. Lovely to drive but I just didn't get to use it much. Had been slightly tweaked with higher boost and SS exhaust.

Don't get one of those. Miles away from a Caterham.

@daviek there's degrees of "works" I'll admit. An Elise roof is streets ahead of the flappy side screens and tonneau on any 7 though. It can be made less bad by specing the long valances, (you don't get drenched by the wake of your own wheels through every puddle) but then then the handling goes awry at speed. 

I was in a similar position last year, at a budget of £18k. I ended up buying neither because of knee surgeries but thats another story. The intention was a fun road car with several trackdays a year, and road trips (with bikes of course).

At that price I'd decided on a Caterham because of:

• more confidence in build quality
• less concern of things going wrong
• excellent residuals- pretty much guaranteed not to lose money on it
• easier to sell when the time comes
• better wet weather gear (not sure if this is true or not, just the impression I got)

If the budget was lower I was probably going to go down the westfield of GBS route, and accept that I'd be spending more time working on the car and slowly rebuilding bits myself. 

The main positive of the westfield is getting more power for the same money, which is of course a nice thing on track. For £15k I think I simply wouldn't get a Caterham with the spec/power I wanted.

I went out with a few blokes at anglesey one trackday who had a caterham and a westfield. The guy in the westfield said he wished he'd bought a caterham as he'd spent so much money improving the westfield he could have just got a caterham that was as good in the first place. The caterham was a 2.0 with sequential box, slicks and not sure about the power- it was biblical- very comparable to the brand new Atom I'd been out in a few weeks before at Bedford.

Drove a friends westfield, I really hated the wind above 30mph and for a short blast was fun, but  further would be horrid.  Seemed to funnel it in.  Would need the sides on or a helmet (it's a road car so that's weird..).  I'd rather be on a bike in that situation if I'm honest.  the 2.0l ford engine was also gutless.

Think an Elise does it better.  Even better if it had a vtec. 

Other option would be a TVR Chimeara. Still raw just in a different way. Plenty in that budget and hold their value too

i did over 45k in my chim. it's not much like a cat 7 or even an elise IMV. i enjoyed my period with it but it usually had about 4 garage visits/year (6k service interval).

also, i believe that TVR and Caterham both got their tubular chassis from arch motors, and they went through a period of having terrible corrosion protection. Despite my car having a great deal of attention it suffered from this with a rotted outrigger on the NS front, so buy both 7s and TVRs of the mid nineties with care or evidence of a rebuild.

something that also needs mentioning is safety. i'd be far more confident of getting out of a smash in one piece in the elise than a 7. if you get hit side on, or if you slide in to something in a 7 or 7 alike there's a decent risk of the rear wheel coming in to the cockpit.