[Closed] Another "what car" thread: Golf, Astra or Focus

Golf tdi with DSG all the way. Got the same engine and gearbox in a touran and it is excellent.

Ford has recently introduced a similar 'box call powershift but it isn't available for the years you are looking at. The ford drives a touch better but the golf is a much better ownership car. Better built, much better residuals etc

As for vauxhall, sorry but it isn't worth commenting on let alone purchasing...

Focus Estate.

If you want auto, I'd have to go with Loddrik and say Golf. The VW DSG box is brilliant, and what you'd get on a much more expensive car. Top bit of kit. Also see if you can get one with the flappy paddles on it for added fun 🙂

Worth noting that Jettas are a lot cheaper than Golfs despite being identical from the rear seats forward. Presumably because everyone thinks 'golfgolfgolfgolf'. Also, Passats are cheaper too in saloon form because they look like boring reps cars but are in fact excellent. If a little more thirsty.

I've got an 2006 Astra (manual, 1.6 SXi). Been very happy with it and have had no trouble. Get on average 38mpg (up to 45mpg on motorways) and enough room for me, Mrs orena45 and our 7 month old and paraphanalia (sp?).

Mrs has a Y-reg Corsa automatic with the Tiptronic gearbox and although I'm not a fan of auto's I have to say it is pretty good in terms of acceleration when needed and fuel economy.

I had a 2005 Astra 1.9CDTi 150 estate from new and it was very good - however their auto boxes are cr4p as are Fords.

Golf with DSG or full auto - best made, handles well, good gearboxes.

Prob too new for you, but there is a new 7-speed auto on VWs which is a slightly different design and consequently is MORE economical than the manual.

Just don't get a mk4 golf, unless you like either rolling around when you take corners, or having your fillings shaken out with the unreasonably hard suspension that is needed to compensate for the poor dynamics...

Agreed - apart from the R32, the mk4 Golf is a tragically poor handler.

MkV at that age isn't it? MkVI is the one just come out 2009 I think...

my mk4 tdi has blown its engine now! only done 100k miles. terrible car.

I think the whole VAG group is overrated and overpriced. If i was buying again i'd get a Ford or Mazda or something.

If the OP is looking at a 05-07 model year, it should be a Mk5 Golf, which all got pretty good reviews.

I remember looking at them around 07 and quite taking a fancy to the Golf GT Sport 1.4 TSI.

Had those choices last year, ended up with a civic. The focus was second and the Golf a close third. The Astra was the worse for driving.

Hmm, interesting comments chaps.

I've never owned a Golf but I thought they'd stayed still a little while the rest of the pack were catching up (specifically in terms of driver feedback, fittings, switchgear, etc). Hence wondering if it was worth spending the extra. DSG is an option, but depends on VFM.

@molgrips: I thought the Mk5 came out in 03/04? That's the one I'd be more inclined to go for over the Mk4.

She's only going to be doing 3-5000 miles/year so no need for a diesel.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the Astra but IMO they've improved a lot in recent years, plus the Focus always seems to come out well in tests.

@Surf-Mat: why do you say their autos are cr4p?

Cheers

much better residuals

But you still loose more money -

I worked it out when we bought our current car. A comparable spec/milage/age Golf costs a lot more to buy than a Focus or Astra, and you simply loose more money on them, although less % wise....

Do the sums...... 🙂

Had those choices last year, ended up with a civic

Aye, been thinking about these too. Did you go for the Geordi la Forge model? Impressed?

Can't go wrong with a MK V Golf which is what 05-07 will be. More expensive but will hold its value better.

Focus is also very good, but not as good as the Golf. Don't know about the auto boxes.

Whatever you do avoid the Astra. Drove one as a rental car this week and could not believe how truly awful it was in every respect compared to the Golf and Focus.

A lot more information on the good, bad and ugly including which models to go for at [url= http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ ]Honest John[/url]

Geordi la Forge model

*s****s*

my mk4 tdi has blown its engine now! only done 100k miles

What was wrong with it?

Civics are very nice, but you can only get the auto in the petrol.

To be honest it's all dependent on what's available near you with the kit you want. At least, that's how I see it 🙂

But yes, Golfs cost a lot but Jettas don't - and they are good. I'd have had one if they cheaper one that I was looking at hadn't been sold.

Very happy with our 06 Focus. Drives well, reasonably frugal and if anything went wrong spare parts are cheap. Plenty of second hand ones to choose from too.

@CaptainMainwaring: agreed with HJ, I've been using his site for years (and loads of others).

Hmm, looks like Focus (for VFM) > Golf > Astra at the mo ...

My budget was below 10k had a bargain from a dealer from civinfo. ES with most of the toys. The Golf I was after I found out through honest john better to use only super unleaded.

I hated my '05 (dis)Astra. Underpowered (even though it was a 1.8SRi), rattly, prone to faults. It was comfortable on a long journey and looked quite nice (coupe version) but the faults easily outweighed the benefits - I couldn't wait to hand it back to the lease company when its 3 years were up.

Ford are really stingy with their toys tho, that may affect you. It did me.

[i]I had a 2005 Astra 1.9CDTi 150 estate from new and it was very good - however their auto boxes are cr4p as are Fords.[/i]

Rubbish, you can't lump GM autoboxes in with Ford ones - they've always been decent.

Why Molgrips? You always throw your toys out of the pram anyway.

😉

Had a Civic (current shape). Can't really comment on the engines you're looking at or the auto box as mine was the Type R. But build quality and reliability were superb. Honda servicing is also very reasonable and their customer service/aftercare was fantastic. My only gripe about the Civic is the visibility not being great which also made it a bit tricky to park.

Rubbish, you can't lump GM autoboxes in with Ford ones - they've always been decent.

Oh yes you can:

Rubbish, you can't lump GM autoboxes in with Ford ones - they've always been decent.

What was wrong with it?

head gasket. I think its leaking exhaust into the coolant, pressurising it and forcing it out the overflow. Garage found no external leaks, only happens under hard acceleration or > 70mph motorway driving. Seems to be lots of other complaints about the same problem ...
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tdi+115+head+gasket

They still seem to fetch a reasonable amount 2nd hand though.

Oh darn - pasting error:

Rubbish, you can't lump GM autoboxes in with Ford ones - they've always been decent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission

Golf every time

Ford and Vauxhall are still lagging behind in the build quality stakes

Ford and vx were on a par with VW recently but have really slipped this year.

That's not what you said on the Audi thread, Matt. 😉

So Fords aren't really as good as Audis (or VWs) after all?

Mike - I just did a load of checking up for 2010 - Audi has slipped a bit too but not as much as Ford and Vx - they've plummeted!
[img] [/img]

Note that Skoda beats Audi and VW yet people will still fall for the VW/Audi badge in droves.

A bit shocked at some of the Jap manufacturers - some have done very badly.

So Fords aren't really as good as Audis (or VWs) after all?

My wife has a Focus estate and I have a golf tdi estate. The Focus is better in every way. Handles better, more reliable, parts are cheaper, better spec for the cash. As somebody mentioned in a post from above if you want to make a statement that you can throw money away buy the Golf!

LOL BUSTED

Not as busted as you are by BMW front wheel drive man ... 😉

Focus still handles better than a Golf, Astra still has better diesel engines than a Golf. But in 2010, the Golf utterly blasted both on the JD Power survey. For the last two years it's been very close (Focus beat the Golf a couple of times).

Surf Mat where is your data from? This is from Warranty Direct the only one I would trust. Higher is worse lower is better. We seem to have a difference of opinion!

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=3128339010848601&searchtype=relindex

Suzuki wipes the floor with everything else. Audi has done poorly mainly due to its air suspension I'd guess.

Inbred - they could have put that table in order!

Mine is the 2010 JD Power survey.

I hate Warranty Direct with a passion (had very bad service from them) so I'll use my table!

Looks like my 3 favourites - Honda, Audi and BMW are doing OK - according to that JD Power table.

If Skoda, VW or Seat made a TT, I'd have no problem with their badge being on it (same applies to Ford/Vauxhall if I felt their build quality and reliability was up to scratch). Closest to a TT from the VAG range is the VW Scirocco, which I don't really like the look of, and the boot aperture is a lot smaller than the TT's, so not as good for putting my bike in and out.

Interesting league table. Personally I've never had a car break down and leave me strandard - and I am hard on vehicles - but I always look after them, service-wise, whether own or company.

Record so far, Citroen Xantia - 160k miles in 4 years.

Even managed to run an Mi16 to 145k, before selling on.

The JD Power survey is filled in by middle aged men who buy cars as status symbols. I've just spent a shed load of cash on this car and its simply perfect in every way.
The warranty direct data is based on actual claims that have been made in relation to the Warranty. I would argue that this is more representative than JD Power survey as this is more customer satisfaction based.

But then isn't the WD one done on customer claims?

Anyone using WD isn't the brightest button in the box...

Whatever both mean, there is a generally agreed trend (apart from Jap cars).

Audi does very badly on the WD table though...

The golf is a car I'd buy myself, the ford is a car I'd hire, the vauxhall is a car I'd reluctantly have hoisted on me by a company.

Not as busted as you are by BMW front wheel drive man ..

Mike - the Scirocco is pretty much the same car as the TT I believe (same chassis/engine etc but slightly detuned). But yeah, as you, the TT is preferable - got mine for another year then, when the lease is up, it is sensible family car time.

I like those Ford Focus RS chav chariot efforts, but I only ever see used ones in Bug Puss Orange or Toxic Waste Green (I'm sure Ford have different names for these colours).

If I could find one in white I'd be very tempted indeed. To hell with my credibility, I never had any to begin with!

Inbred456 - Member
The JD Power survey is filled in by middle aged men who buy cars as status symbols. I've just spent a shed load of cash on this car and its simply perfect in every way.

You could also argue it's filled in by loads of people who want to justify why they bought a cheaper car/less prestigious brand, but big it up to make themselves feel better/make their cars look good. Kinda like those people who buy an On-One Inbred and go around saying there's no way a Cotic Soul is worth 3 times more.

There's also the element of can someone who is in a position to buy a Lexus or a Merc be arsed to fill in a survey. It'd be interesting to know how many responses for each manufacturer they had. Surely Ford/Vauxhall owners will outnumber Lexus/Mercedes owners simply because they shift more units. But if only 50 Lexus owners respond but they all respond glowingly, but 10000 Ford owners respond across the spectrum of satisfaction, surely that will skew the results?

If I had bought a Lexus and found it crap, then had a chance to make my voice heard I wouldn't pretend to be happy just to justify buying it!

So a survey based on actual claims compared to an owner stating an opinion about the car they have bought is some how inferior or less accurate. If I had just spent say 25 k on an A3 and it's been poor. Would I then slag it off in a customer survey thus indicating what a plonker I have been or say nothing, hope everybody else said nothing and then sell the thing.
Anyone using WD is a plonker because the data is flawed or because they don't pay out?
Don't the Top Gear lot use the JDP Survey.

I'll leave you lot to argue over your JD vs WD stats ... in the meantime, I'll be booking some test drives.

TVM to the wisdom of the masses.

Mastiles, yeah, I know they're based on the same platform/engine, but the Scirocco isn't as nice to look at (personal opinion), it's less practical to get a bike in/out of and is also slightly slower off the mark and mid-range. Scirocco is supposed to be more involving to drive than the TT, but the TT handles well enough for me (track day capabilities aren't high on my list of priorities for a road car). It just ticked more boxes for me/my requirements than the Scirocco, Golf and BMWs I looked at.

What kind of people can be bothered with surveys?

I'm more likely to complete a survey if I've had exceptionally good service or if I'm pi$$ed off about something. If I was just satisfied, I'd probably not bother.

Mastiles, yeah, I know they're based on the same platform/engine, but the Scirocco isn't as nice to look at (personal opinion), it's less practical to get a bike in/out of and is also slightly slower off the mark and mid-range. Scirocco is supposed to be more involving to drive than the TT, but the TT handles well enough for me (track day capabilities aren't high on my list of priorities for a road car). It just ticked more boxes for me/my requirements than the Scirocco, Golf and BMWs I looked at.

I only use WD ,JDP , What Car, Parker's etc to get an overview and a feel for how reliable a car is. I don't only use one site. Then armed with as much info as I can get, I'll choose some models to test drive and take it from there. Remember to take into account the service intervals and cost, tyre costs and tax etc. My Golf has never got anywhere near it's maximum mileage on its variable service schedule, 9000 to 20000 miles, service light always comes on at approx 9050 miles.

Having said all of the above the best car as a family we have had was a Bog Rover 216si s reg. Universally slated in every survey it's been in!

Inbred, you might want to check your service indicator is set to the variable mode rather than fixed mode if your light comes on close to 9000 every time. But it could just be that the majority of your driving is urban/extra urban rather than motorway, which will degrade the oil quicker so the engine thinks it needs a service sooner.

Of course, neither might be the case - just trying to be helpful.

Do people really care that much about what they, or other people drive?
How strange. I've found that friends who moan about my car when they're being given a lift get 2 options -
1. stop talking
2. get out and walk if you don't like it

My dad's got a 55 Zetec Focus, seems very nice, well enough appointed for the price and drives well, and it's never done anything but work. Decent paint quality and suchlike. Nothing very inspiring about it but it's a nice place to be. Bit of a dad car and inevitably it's silver like every other focus in the world so he has to try 6 or 7 cars in Tescos before he finds his own.

Mike have now switched it to fixed service and change oil every 9000 using the standard PD oil VAG recommends not the mega expensive variable service stuff at 10 quid a litre +vat.

My best experience of owning VAG cars was during the 80's and early 90's.I would say their golden era. Audi 80 sport(red)loved that car, MK II Scirocco with the smoked lights. Audi coupe 5cyl. They were light years then ahead of Ford and Vauxhall. Now I guess the other manufacturers have caught up. Still think the 1.9TDI engine is one of the all time great engines.

I've got a service next week - on 27k miles so I reckon it could be pricey on the stealth bomber.

Inbred - the 1.9TDI unit was briefly ahead but the froggies and GM soon overtook it with smoother engines that had much wider powerbands. The 150PD in the VWs may have been pokey but it was VERY agricultural. It was also put in the mk4 Golf and the Bora - both of which were the worst handling cars of their era. The Focus handles 3434534535 times better which is why VW nicked the Ford chassis engineer and made a much better job of the mk5 Golf.

Latest TT is much better than the old one - I quite like it whereas the old one made me angry.

All except the RS are left for dust by the stealth bomber though 😉

Honda Civic CTDI company car: great engine, not terribly well put together, numerous niggles and initially appalling dealer, but improving recently
Mazda 3 petrol: reliable though a bit bland

All except the RS are left for dust by the stealth bomber though

What pray tell is the stealth bomber? Is it matt black? I have to agree the Golf MK4 was/is a terrible handling car, the Focus probably the best handling front wheel drive standard production car I have driven.

Self confessed Honda mentalist here , love the 2.2 diesel , economy and power without tractor like vag engines
I hate the focus interior and engines , vauxhalls not bad , good roadholding , damping. Suspention is the civic weak link , it's quite rough , ESP with 17 inch alloys , got a 2.2 es with the glass roof , wouldn't buy without it ever again !!

Hth

What pray tell is the stealth bomber?

Black 335d Touring but SE spec so it looks pretty subtle (as intended). I like not much show but plenty of go. I can't stand the other way around. Vast sunroof is probably the nicest extra on it.

MF - I have no qualms about nice cars - they usually go faster, are comfier, they handle better, are often safer, etc. But a "designer" pram/buggy does no more (in fact often less) than others yet is bought to look good. The baby doesn't benefit at all as they all comply with the same safety standards.

I still say go for the Golf to the OP - I've had three (mk2 Gti, mk3 GTi 16v, mk4 R32) and loved them all. My immediate family has had a total of 11 over the years.

My final choices were 123D M-Sport -v- TT S-Line SE. In the end I chose the TT cos it swallows a bike easier.

Always liked the 3 series Touring right back to my favourite the E21. Bit small for my needs, Lab and luggage. Never took to the 5 series as much although a great car by all accounts. When I was considerably younger I had the chance to buy a E21 325i Touring with a Hartge conversion. Bottled it and have regretted it ever since, it went like stink and would wipe the floor with most things back then.

I tell you what, if Honda made a car that looked good and handled well, they would completely clean up the hatchback market because their engines are second to none. Furthermore, their customer service is fantastic. I took my Accord in for a service, it came back washed and valeted, fully serviced for 150 quid, they gave me proper coffee while I was waiting for them to sort out the paperwork and the woman on reception (who was an extremely sexy middle aged bombshell), noticed that my wife was sat outside in her car so she went out and brought her inside, gave her a drink and then chatted away to her about Avon stuff while we waited.

I'm sold and next time I get a new car (which will be a while because my car is superb), I'll be getting another Accord. Powerful, very well built, BMW quality, extremely comfortable and great on the motorway, looks a bit like a nice Merc. As I say, it's only problem is it looks old fashioned and handles like a barge.

Maybe the OP should ask Paul the psychic octopus....

Drove a Focus auto on holiday a couple of weeks ago, 2 days 6oomls. Needed some massage to remove stiff/sezed neck/shoulders. Confirmed something I already knew about the Focus. I hate `em, horrible cars.

Wife has asked her hire company not to send her any Vaux cars(as have others according to them). Not driven any recently so cannot commet.

VW for me.

Bit like a bike, pair of shoes, dress, jeans etc. Try before you(she)buys.

I'd avoid VW and go for a Honda Civic.

Golfs look 'nice' but I was completely unimpressed with the MKV GT TDI that I had. The paint seem to flake off, the door card fabric pilled too easily.

Awful dull and monotonous dash etc. Plus there are the reliability issues and the VW dealers to have to deal with.

On the mkIV- agree. It wasn't a great drive (I drove 3 versions of the mkIV)

MF - I have no qualms about nice cars - they usually go faster, are comfier, they handle better, are often safer, etc. But a "designer" pram/buggy does no more (in fact often less) than others yet is bought to look good. The baby doesn't benefit at all as they all comply with the same safety standards.

There are a million variables and in-depth questions to be asked before anyone can reach a good, solid conclusion. But that takes time so:

Golf V diesel DSG everytime. I agree with Loddrick.

We have astras and focuses as hire cars at work. I nevet ever want the astras i always want the focuses ( estate or hatch) the astra us bogging inside, horrible to drive and the diesel is gutless. The focis interior is not the best but is better and the tdci engine is ace. Ive driven these cars up amd down the country the astra is flipping awful. I have had a mkiv golf hire car albeit a manual and i was underwhelmed i would sooner get the focus personally. Btw i own an octy vrs and a vw polo so i am not a ford man.

Back in Feb I was faced with a similar choice. £8 to £9k to spend on a mid sized hatch.
Astra - hatch looks too narrow to easily get a bike into.
Golf - if I want to pay a £1 - £1.5k premium for the same car or take a hit on mileage or spec.
Civic - as in Golf.
Focus ticked the boxes for me. £8.2k for an 07 2.0 tdci ghia with 27k.
I've not had it long bu not problems so far and it does everything I want. Handles well. Quick when I want it to be and 48 to 51 mpg. Oh, and easy to get a bike into 🙂

Have owned both Focus and Golf Diesel variants from this era. Not sure on auto boxes but I think Fords TDCi engine is superior in most ways to the old TDi VW engine (quieter, smoother etc)

Also disagree with the build quality thing - maybe 5-7 years ago Ford were lagging behind VW in terms of build quaility but not anymore - really solidly built car. Also the 'control blade' suspension set up on the Focus is great - they just handle a lot better than the Golf IMO.

I own a Golf at the min but am seriously considering moving back to a 2.0 TDCi Focus for my next car, you just get so much more bang for your buck.

Golf overrated IMO

Sorry meant the E30 model not the E21.

out of interest, have you looked at the other options? C30 would be nice if you don't need the space, the c4 is an interesting option as is the 147..

MF - you have just crossed a line with that last post, a line that you have to be pretty messed up to cross. What is it with you? Let's face it, you're a geek that thinks he's made it and bang on and on about money. We don't care and the fact some have a much nicer car than you clearly grates your nerdy self worth. I seriously advise
you never to make such insulting statements about how we bring up our boy again. After all, your poor offspring have to try and fit in daddys pretend sports car rather than a proper vehicle. So nicely hypocritical too.

Got to agree with Matt on this one. Reckon you owe an apology m_f...