[Closed] Another war in Gaza

I would have expected nothing less (/ more) from you deadlydarcy 🙂

concerned

They have a fairly disproportionate way of showing their "concern".

samj--what of the israeli opposition to this thuggery ?

On the other hand (the making of) Iran's bomb is not so secret as they have already publicly threatened several times to 'wipe israel of the face of the map' with it!

Not that old chestnut. Quotes/sources please?

The fact the equivalent of the entire jewish population of israel had been wiped out just 3 generations ago is, i think , a justified reason to be concerned, and not some 'shameless' excuse to act in a certain way.

Past abuses, awful as they are, are no excuse for carrying out current and future ones. You really don't believe the holocaust is ever cynically utilised by hawkish Israeli politicians to bolster their position? You're very naive if so

And yes, people expect better behaviour from a supposedly democratic modern state with close ties to the west, that claims to value human rights, than they do from Iran or Syria. You should probably be glad of that.

Yes, well done Samj, its good to see another point of view than the usual suspects, please dont give up as I am enjoying your contribution to this thread.
Its amazing how many personal beliefs people will put aside to position themselves in one camp very opposed to a the majority of their own political leanings, really does bring out the complexity and entrenched opinions people have on this matter, its going to take a politician or leader of Ghandi proportions on either side to put an end to this madness.

I would have to agree with Samj.

Yeah me too ^^

Oh dear are we really reduced to using Pat Condell videos as evidence of anything?

I'd like to see some of you (apart from samj) actually discuss any of the points of this argument, rather than just linking to YouTube videos of ranty bigots slagging off Muslims, and saying 'yeah I agree'.

Oh dear are we really reduced to using Pat Condell videos as evidence of anything?

I actually thought it was put up as some kind of ironoclasmic thing. Tell me it was wasn't it?

British 'diplomacy' had a big hand in setting this up in 1948 did it not ??

Rudeboy yes British diplomacy and Jewish terrorism murdering soldiers and civilians with gay abandon.

And yes, people expect better behaviour from a supposedly democratic modern state with close ties to the west, that claims to value human rights, than they do from Iran or Syria. You should probably be glad of that.

Grum, have you thought that one through? you seem to imply that people would be more accepting of Israel's actions if it were less democratic and cared less for human rights. Is it more acceptable to you that the extremists to want to 'flatten gaza' because they are extremists. Come on..you can't have it both ways.

And this may come as a suprise, but no, i am not 'glad' of the [b]double standards[/b] you describe. That is one of the central points in this thread. Why is it that a daily bombing of civillian populations in Syria 'bores' the news agencies...that there are never any pictures of ambulances and injured children when a bomb goes off in a market stall in Iraq, or a high street in Afghanistan, but we are inundated with these images almost immediately & continuously from Gaza? Is it only because there is no foreign media allowed in Syria? That there are no people with smart phones standing relaying the pics to news agencies hungry to broadcast them? - And why do you think that is? - think about it.

Do you think there is no injustice in these places, no arguments over land or religeon in the Arab world? Do you have any knowledge of the scale of loss of life historically in land related disputes between Sunnis/ Shias, other Arab sects? Ask yourself why the only thing you have to say about the situation in Syria is that it's 'tragic' but you have SO much to say on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict

You cannot excuse these countries because they dont claim to care about human rights. On the contrary, that is precicely where you should be focusing your attention & energy if abuse of human rights is your concern.

samj - bang on the money!

Sorry, been lurking until the above. Samj; can you actually demonstrate/link us to any IDF action that is proportionate? I doubt it. By dint of the fact that your military action is pretty much "Extreme" why is anybody who thinks that is naive and misinformed? Israel has previous for destroying residential areas simply because they were not slums (Cast Lead),just as detailed in the posts above. Having first claimed that they had missiles launched from them..funny that their was no smartphone or media coverage of that,or any evidence...

- And why do you think that is? - think about it.

So again,explain to me why the extremists are not in the driving seat. At least Hamas are open about their objectives. Israel has EXACTLY the same plan for Palestine,and are going about it far more successfully than Hamas.

Link from Twitter, but spookily accurate

[img] :large[/img]

Duckman, i posted this link above w.r.t cast lead. I think you might agree this guy is not your typical israeli extremist. he just happens to have spent more time studying the facts, and less time forming an opinion based on the bbc's coverage.

Here's an idea, cut all foreign aid to Israel, especially from the states. Force Israel back to the original 1947 partition lines, and by force i mean bulldoze all settlements and clear the land, make Israel pay to return it to a suitable state so that the former palestinian owners can rebuild on it and if they overstep the mark again, as they are likely to do by slowly creeping forward whilst mumbling about their past persecution (but we're not allowed to question the deaths are we?) then the UN can roll in with tanks and bulldozers and airstrikes against the Zionist state till they get the message.

Job done, everyones happy - thread closed.

Although it wouldn't work quite as easily as that, i realise that many palestinians have sold land to the Israelis and there is a great many sympathetic Israelis who want no part in what the Zionists do in the name of a Jewish state.

It'd be a start though and a level playing field, well it would be after the bulldozers have passed through.

The Telegraph Aug 21 2012
"President Ahmadinejad, despite recent comments that the
Zionist regime was a cancerous tumour which would soon be
"wiped out""

Do you think President Ahmadinejad has had such a pleasant summer that he's changed his mind on this?

Israel has long been concerned about Iran having Nuclear weapons.
Do Israel have them? Sure. But when have they threatened another country with wiping them out? Bear in mind Israel has had this since prob mid 60's and are there as a last resort bearing in mind the neighbours they've got.

When have Syria invaded another country? 1948 & 1973. Israel would have been invaded by them for a third time in 1967 had it not been for the pre-emptive strikes.

Agree with Samj here. It is tragic that there is Muslim killing Muslim in other parts of the world. However as soon as Israel gets involved it is at the forefront of media attention. More so, the media does not give a monkeys about my point near the start of this post that 700 rockets had been fired from Gaza against Israel in 2012 (prior to last week) and 2500 since 2009. When did that make News at Ten?

you give any monkey matches and he will learn to light them, the cynic in me wonders whose benefit are these 'conflicts'-- Arms industry- big big business- a third of the US economy is arms based-- sure they are happy to see their 'products' being used.I do not believe that these conflicts are solvable until there is regime change in most if not all the protagonists.

Is it only because there is no foreign media allowed in Syria?

Thankfully, they're allowed into Gaza, and still reporting despite Israel trying to blow the shit out of one of the media buildings.

And as for your last post samj, yep, it's a pisser that the media has got bored of Syria, but it doesn't make Israel's [b][i]disproportionate[/i][/b]* responses any more acceptable.

*Emphasis there for your benefit as you seem to conveniently continually ignore the disproportionality of the Zionist responses.

Amongst all the critics, the one thing I don't hear so much of is what would you do if you were in Israel's shoes being fired at by Hamas who make no bones about their charter which is Israel's destruction.

Israel has made peace with former enemies - Egypt & Jordan and although these are in reality a cold peace, especially the former, it shows Israel has in the past at least shown the capacity to make concessions and strike a peace deal. However that requires a willing partner and Hamas can not to date be descirbed as that.

And yes, people expect better behaviour from a supposedly democratic modern state with close ties to the west, that claims to value human rights, than they do from Iran or Syria. You should probably be glad of that.
Grum, have you thought that one through? you seem to imply that people would be more accepting of Israel's actions if it were less democratic and cared less for human rights. Is it more acceptable to you that the extremists to want to 'flatten gaza' because they are extremists. Come on..you can't have it both ways.

He implies no such think and it takes a gymnastic level of mental distortions to suggest he does. He suggest that we expect despots/dictators and the undemocratic to be poorer about human rights than we expect democracies to be. FFS you cannot actually disagree with that statement- do western democracies respect human rights better than Iraq Syria.China etc. Its not implying that at all.
I thought you were arguing well if somewhat entrenched but that is tragic and desperate - you cannot actually think that is what he meant as you are clearly not stupid.

Thanks for a rant on other countries and NO mention of Israel on a thread about Israel.

On the other hand (the making of) Iran's bomb is not so secret as they have already publicly threatened several times to 'wipe israel of the face of the map' with it!

Not that old chestnut. Quotes/sources please?

I notice you didn't answer this bit.

Also, it's not double standards to expect better from a country that is democratic, a close ally of the west, and constantly and loudly shouts about their commitment to human rights than you would from a totalitarian dictator. That would be pretty obvious if you weren't constantly looking to play the anti semitism card. It's Israel that can't have it both ways - wanting to be seen as a modern, enlightened, democratic nation, while acting as a rogue state.

All the 'whataboutery' in the world doesn't make what Israel is doing right. And yes, Hamas are probably good at media management - still doesn't make what Israel is doing right.

Amongst all the critics, the one thing I don't hear so much of is what would you do if you were in Israel's shoes being fired at by Hamas who make no bones about their charter which is Israel's destruction.

Israel has made peace with former enemies - Egypt & Jordan and although these are in reality a cold peace, especially the former, it shows Israel has in the past at least shown the capacity to make concessions and strike a peace deal. However that requires a willing partner and Hamas can not to date be described as that.

Dismantle all the illegal settlements and give the Palestinians back their land? Stop treating them as second class citizens, destroying their homes, taking their water, ruining their livelihoods? That would be a start.

Agreed, the settlements need to cease. Israel vaccated Gaza in 2005 but hasn't had the desired effect.

Let the Palestinians see that they have something to gain from peace.

Perhaps even help them with economic aid to rebuild their state and try and build peace
A hearts and minds operation is the only way to secure peace for the long run and whatever you think of the current actions they wont win hearts and minds but will turn hearts and minds to hatred , extremism and opposition.
Perhaps offer all the land back if they recognise israel and her right to exist - do you think israel would actually do this
Let all the people return as per the resolution from 1948 and lots lots more

it will be a difficult road that will have huge risks. i doubt a Ghandi on either side would get any /much political support as both sides are so deeply entrenched in their positions

it will not be easy but to keep repeating the current events - attacking every time they have an election - any comment on that sanj?- is unlikely to lead to a lasting peace - any comment on that sanj ?

Again i dont support the bombings by Palestinians but any country treated like that will have "armed resistance" and extremism- if spain did this to portugal for example we would get violence from the Portugeses

Some serious bargaining where by israel gets the peace it wants but gives back the lands it has taken.
I doubt it will happen unless the western democracies and the US in particular decree it and the Arab allies decree it on the palestinians.
I shant hold my breath

never before has a middle of the road pot smoking comedy actor been more poignant..

[img] [/img]

Yunki- that right, but how to change the system is the biggie !

The system is basically only good for a small minority, and that at the expense of every other poor sod,the limited resources and quite possibly the rest of the creatures that inhabit this place

Well skipped sanj....Why is it you have such good sources of information, but anybody who disagrees with the Israeli action on this thread is misled by the BBC news? Not full of yourself are you?
Again; what in Israel's actions in any conflict suggests that the Extremists are not in control?

And all for Lebenstraum...oh the ironing!

[img] [/img]

He implies no such thing and it takes a gymnastic level of mental distortions to suggest he does

Actually all it takes just a little bit of mental application, which it seems is too much to ask from most of the people here.

How about this one.. this might be a bit harder, but try a little bit this time:

Strictly in resonse to DD's proportionality argument, by analogy - Imagine that someone is swinging an axe at your head repeatedly. He missed the first time. would you try to talk him out of it, or shoot him with your gun? Do we need to add in the point that he has sworn to continue swinging until he actually hits you to affect your response? Now, repeat the experiment 1000 times. are the results proportional? what if you put the axe swinger amongst a group of people -how would that affect the proportionality?

And what have we been debating? Not one of you has put a serious suggestion on the table for 'how do we talk the axe swinger out of it' ? - you are obsessed with complaining that the axe swinger doesnt have a gun.. or arguing how unfair it is that other person has the gun, or that the US gave it to them. Or, JY, that its natural that the axe swinger would do that.

A higher death rate on both sides - that is your proportionality. That is far more appealing to your sense of justice than asking difficult questions.. the Palestinains deserve there revenge given all there suffering - right Junkyard?. If you want a real reason to 'despair of the human condition' you have only to read your own posts, and that of the majority of others.

The real reason why Syria is off the news agenda is that a level playing field just doesnt do it for the lazy minded. never mind that the mutual massacre there is off the scale in terms of numbers - there is nothing for you to get angry about there easily.

The Israel/Palestinan conflict is far more appealing to you.. Theres a 'bad guy', and a 'good guy', and it's easier for you all to gasp and say 'wow look how unjust that is' so you can think you are doing your bit fo the good of humanity without having to challenge your own thinking (/prejudices) in any way.

I've been trying to keep an open mind while reading this thread..

I don't know a great deal about the situation, and certainly don't hold a strong opinion on it.. I'm always sceptical of the easy/popular viewpoint, so it interested me to hear samj's arguments..

all that I can conclude from this thread, particularly that last post, is that samj is a bit of a psychopath

thanks yunki. maybe you should stick to posting pretty pictures.

aye.. you're probably right, perhaps I'm not seeing the bigger picture here.. 🙄

Sorry, but your analogy over-simplifies the situation. I'm fairly sure you realise that already though.

As an analogy I think it's fairly spot on actually

[quote=somafunk]but we're not allowed to question the deaths are we?

You're not suggesting somehow that the holocaust was some sort of zionist confidence trick are you?

And what have we been debating? Not one of you has put a serious suggestion on the table for 'how do we talk the axe swinger out of it' ?

Give the Palestinians back their land, stop killing them, building illegal settlements and treating them as second class citizens - already suggested that. Seems unlikely though doesn't it.

Your tenuous analogy works the other way round just as well/badly by the way.

And again, whether it not Israel gets a disproportionate amount of criticism doesn't make what they are doing right. And constantly crying anti-semitist conspiracy only helps further racism by conflating Israeli abuses with Judaism. You still haven't provided the quotes where Iran has repeatedly said they want a nuke to wipe Israel off the map btw.

samj,
That analogy might work.
If in your given situation, the "axe swinger" is a four year old boy.
And the axe you talk about is a plastic toy one.
But he's swinging it in anger 'cos you've already shot his older sister and younger cousin for living in the same house.
And you shoot him anyway.

And you shoot him anyway.

and every other kid in the playground just to be sure.. and their families..

Actually all it takes just a little bit of mental application, which it seems is too much to ask from most of the people here.

How about this one.. this might be a bit harder, but try a little bit this time:

Strictly in resonse to DD's proportionality argument, by analogy - Imagine that someone is swinging an axe at your head repeatedly. He missed the first time. would you try to talk him out of it, or shoot him with your gun? Do we need to add in the point that he has sworn to continue swinging until he actually hits you to affect your response? Now, repeat the experiment 1000 times. are the results proportional? what if you put the axe swinger amongst a group of people -how would that affect the proportionality?

And what have we been debating? Not one of you has put a serious suggestion on the table for 'how do we talk the axe swinger out of it' ? - you are obsessed with complaining that the axe swinger doesnt have a gun.. or arguing how unfair it is that other person has the gun, or that the US gave it to them. Or, JY, that its natural that the axe swinger would do that.

the Palestinains deserve there revenge given all there suffering - right Junkyard?.

If you want a real reason to 'despair of the human condition' you have only to read your own posts, and that of the majority of others.

The Israel/Palestinan conflict is far more appealing to you.. Theres a 'bad guy', and a 'good guy', and it's easier for you all to gasp and say 'wow look how unjust that is' so you can think you are doing your bit fo the good of humanity without having to challenge your own thinking (/prejudices) in any way.

Grum - I don't think Samj mentioned anti-semitism?

As for the quote, per my post above:

The Telegraph Aug 21 2012
"President Ahmadinejad, despite recent comments that the
Zionist regime was a cancerous tumour which would soon be
"wiped out""

Imagine you are in their house when they are swinging the axe at you?
does your example still work?

Doffs cap to J-Y.

And to loum.

Imagine you are in their house when they are swinging the axe at you?
does your example still work?

Yes. though strictly (and this is not an analogy) they are now operating from amongst the houses built by Israelis in Gaza who were withdrawn from them in 2005 in order to try to advance the peace process.

the issue is how to get a solution again , for I remain optimistic you will answer

I suggest you scroll up re-read and try again.

You have offered nothing, other than the 'inevitablility of it all'

Well done you misrepresented my view once more.

I suggest you scroll up re-read and try again.

Its a fail at the answering the question though you claimed you have

you are TJ and I claim my £5

Ps the question was actually

could you explain to me how Israels current behaviour leads to peace and does not inevitably lead to conflict [ which is bad whoever perpetrates it].

Grum - I don't think Samj mentioned anti-semitism?
As for the quote, per my post above:
The Telegraph Aug 21 2012
"President Ahmadinejad, despite recent comments that the
Zionist regime was a cancerous tumour which would soon be
"wiped out""

He hasn't specifically but he's alluding to some kind of unfair treatment of Israel with nefarious motivations, and it's an argument often trotted out by Israeli spokesmen.

Calling for the destruction of the Zionist regime is hardly the same as calling for genocide of all Israelis is it, there's a crucial difference. And Ahmedinajad has specifically said that's not what he meant.

you are TJ and I claim my £5

Guffaw that is simply priceless 😆

I'm not sure who is TJ, but perhaps you can use your fiver to get him to explain to you that peace involves the actions of two parties, not one.

In the mean time, keep giving each other 'Doff Caps' and enjoy agreeing with one another in your 'debate' 😀

get him to explain to you that peace involves the actions of two parties, not one.

PSA moral maze Radio 4 on this very issue- morals and ethics on this conflict

Could you explain to me how Israels current actions are going to lead to peace rather than inevitably lead to this?

Well, their [u]current[/u] actions seem to involve a ceasefire.

Lets see who breaks it first 😐

In the mean time, keep giving each other 'Doff Caps' and enjoy agreeing with one another in your 'debate'

You seemed quite pleased with your own little doffs from other posters. Sometimes someone articulates what one is about to say. I consider it good manners to credit that poster with a wee thanks. Call it being a good neighbour if you like. Though, I'm guessing Zionists don't really get that concept.

In the mean time, keep giving each other 'Doff Caps' and enjoy agreeing with one another in your 'debate'

Quite a few people have agreed with you, but of course that doesn't fit with the 'everyone's against us' narrative we hear so often.

samj - Member
I'm not sure who is TJ, but perhaps you can use your fiver to get him to explain to you that peace involves the actions of two parties, not one.

In the mean time, keep giving each other 'Doff Caps' and enjoy agreeing with one another in your 'debate'

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #

And you keep avoiding awkward questions while claiming the rest of us are misinformed...while supporting a Holocaust (Greek for great burning;rather appropriate for troops that use Phosphorous,or did that not really happen to the UN compound and I am misinformed)

You're not suggesting somehow that the holocaust was some sort of zionist confidence trick are you?

Not at all, i was merely pointing out the rather disturbing fact that you/we/I are not allowed by law (Holocaust denial) to question the actual number of jewish deaths directly attributed to the Nazi's indefensible use of concentration or death camps dependant on your point of view.

I was taught by my parents to make my own mind up and come to my own conclusions, thus i got into serious trouble at one school i attended for questioning the actual number of deaths directly attributed to the nazi's persecution of the jewish race - long boring story but all i wanted to know was why aren't you allowed to question the actual number of deaths?, why is taken for granted and no further investigation or questioning is allowed?.

I consider it good manners to credit that poster with a wee thanks. Call it being a good neighbour if you like. Though, I'm guessing Zionists don't really get that concept.

Not at all, i was merely pointing out the rather disturbing fact that you/we/I are not allowed by law (Holocaust denial) to question the actual number of jewish deaths directly attributed to the Nazi's indefensible use of concentration or death camps dependant on your point of view.

I don't think holocaust denial is illegal in this country - it is in a few other European countries though.

Keep it up samj... great to see you winding the usual suspects up..... doffs cap 😉

Ah, there you are again bloodynora.

Feel free to make your own sensible point anytime. There's a first time for everything. Or just be samj's little lapdog. I dunno, it's up to you.

EDIT: At least samj comes and argues his point. Not sure he's being a WUM - you'd probably know more about that kind of thing yourself though.

Could you explain to me how Israels current actions are going to lead to peace rather than inevitably lead to this?

You cannot because anyone can see it wont lead to peace even you.

Junkyard, I've already explained to you that Israel's current actions (prior to the ceasefire) was a natural reaction to continuous rocket fire. and that peace, like agreement, involves [i]two[/i] sides. and that part of that agreement means Hamas formally recognizing Israels right to exist.

Now,... you, explain to me, how your actions will lead to [i]our[/i] agreement, and not more disagreement.

'You cannot can you? - 'because anyone ('even you') can see it wont lead to [i]our[/i] agreement without me!'

Is it clearer for you now?
Is that still avoiding your awkward question?
Is the metaphor not realistic enough for you? or is it just too patronizing..

..And once the penny drops for deadlydarcy and your other cohorts, and you stop eating your own 'doff caps' -hehe, i like this 'doff caps', i'll keep using it! 🙂 -, we'll all have to suffer the next round of misguided attempts at insightful wit/observations re the nasty nature of the Zionist regime.. which, sadly is about as predictable as the next round of Hamas rockets..

oh, and get your fiver back from TJ, as I've clearly had to do explain anyway..or maybe i am him after all?!

guffaws & chuckles all round ?!! - doubt it.

😀

actually, 'attempts at insightful wit/observations is far too generous'. I think 'bile' is the term you used. Much more appropriate - i'll borrow that one too..;P

Your last couple of posts are showing your frustrations. It's like you're trying to convince yourself now. To be fair, being a Zionist is a tough one. Most people just don't like you. So I can understand your reactions, ad hominems, patronising tone. (Disproportionality is nothing new to you is it?). But don't go turning into a WUM now...and just tell us who you really are.

Anyway, because you continually refuse to accept it, let me once again correct you:

Junkyard, I've already explained to you that Israel's current actions (prior to the ceasefire) was a [s]natural[/s] [b]disproportionate[/b] reaction

It's like banging one's head against a brick wall. And let's face it, you'd know all about walls wouldn't you?

Got anymore of those clever analogies until tyger, bloodynora etc come and jerk you off again?

tyger, bloodynora etc come and jerk you off again?

I agree with all your posts Darcy and I will be free from approx 8pm tonight.

Somafunk; As a history teacher; we arrive at the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust by using the following data;
Jews in a number of countries had to carry id cards; a huge number/most of these people were missing after the war.
Census records.
The numbers killed by advancing German "special action" groups,especially in the Baltic countries. The Nazi troops involved in these were tried after the war.
Witness statements given to evidence gatherers for the N'berg trails.
The quantity of Zyklon b manufactured.
Cargo/train capacity to the various camps.
Nazi records.

Now...after the war Europe was in a state of flux. If you were Jewish why would you return to the town where your neighbours had pointed you out? This will have made the total missing extremely hard to collate with 100% accuracy. Yad Vashem has 4 million names of victims compiled for certain.Hilleberg(?)estimates that 3 million Jews* died in camps alone.Factor in the camps fairly late arrival and it is easy to accept the fact most modern studies are now putting the total at 5.2 million to 5.75million, which is close enough to the original total.

* And a million Blacks, Gays,Jehovahs witnesses,American servicemen,Gypsies, priests and anybody who put a lie to the idea of the Slavs being "untermensch"

..And once the penny drops for deadlydarcy and your other cohorts, and you stop eating your own 'doff caps' -hehe, i like this 'doff caps', i'll keep using it! -, we'll all have to suffer the next round of misguided attempts at insightful wit/observations re the nasty nature of the Zionist regime.. which, sadly is about as predictable as the next round of Hamas rockets..

I notice you've given up on even attempting to answer any questions or debate any points (like how you've still failed to back up your claim that Iran has threatened to nuke Israel), and are just reverting to 'it's not fair, you're all bastards, waaaaaaa!'. A familiar tactic of Israeli spokesmen when they don't have an argument.

I've already explained to you that Israel's current actions (prior to the ceasefire) was a natural reaction to continuous rocket fire. and that peace,

could you explain to me how Israels current behaviour [ this includes tgh eland grabs, the embargo, the walls , the seiges , the assinations etc]leads to peace and does not inevitably lead to conflict [ which is bad whoever perpetrates it].

Is it clearer for you now?

Is that still avoiding your awkward question?

Is the metaphor not realistic enough for you? or is it just too patronizing

we'll all have to suffer the next round of misguided attempts at insightful wit/observations re the nasty nature of the Zionist regime.. which, sadly is about as predictable as the next round of Hamas rockets..

It is clear to anyone reading this that you have not answered the question and nor will you as we all know it will not lead to peace no matte rhow pro Israel or anti we may consider each other to be.

In fact it is so clear it wont you cannot even attempt a defence so you pretend you have whilst offering insults

From BBC News website...

"A number of rockets were fired from Hamas in Gaza in the first few hours of the truce, but Israel did not respond".

Who's the agressor?

Maybe Hamas can't tell the time of the Israelis took all their watches.

"A number of rockets were fired from Hamas in Gaza in the first few hours of the truce, but Israel did not respond".

Who's the agressor?

Would you like to argue this or will you take the sanj approacjh and merley criticise the Palestinians whilst ignoring Israel policies and their contribution to the aggression.

I note you failed to mention the Israel air atacks - the ones that killed folk minutes before the ceasefire started but you probabbly think that was ok despite the civilians deaths.

FFS both sides are agrresive at times, both sides attack the other and both sides to stop to get to peace

To deify your chosen side and suggest they are benign in the region/conflict requires a large diollop of naiviety/stupidity

while I having no interest in debating the issue, thought this was a fairly non-partisan summary from the bbc's man in Gaza...

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20441798 ]

Tangible progress must be made when discussions now begin to ease Israel's blockade of Gaza (or restrictions as the Israelis prefer to call them). Fishing rights, the ability to cultivate all their farmland and the movement of goods and people are rights that Gazans expect like any other people.

Equally once the noise of celebration subsides, Hamas political leaders must assume their own responsibilities. They know that, if the militants rearm, if more heavy weapons are smuggled through the tunnels from Egypt and further afield, Israel will not tolerate the situation.

It is not normal, not acceptable, that rocket fire resumes on southern Israel, and the consequences must be crystal-clear for any militants who grow frustrated with a lack of political progress in coming months or years.

[/url]

Junkyard - a ceasefire is a "line in the sand" - Hamas crossed it!!

Do you consider the internationally recognised borders that Israel illegally crosses, occupies and settlee to be lines in the sand ?
Should we just ignore that and just not comment?
To repeat

unless of course you want to argue that Israel is not expansionist in the region and does nothing aggressive like say illegally settle land or assinate leaders.

Would you like to argue this or will you take the sanj approacjh and merley criticise the Palestinians whilst ignoring Israel policies and their contribution to the aggression.

It would seem you have made your choice and it is pointless to debate this with a person who will deify his own side, villify the others, only comment on ones sides transgressions and refuses to answer any of the difficult questions whilst maintaining unwavering support of anythign Israel does

You could have at least felt some sympathy for the innocents who died minutes before.

http://news.sky.com/story/1014888/gaza-rockets-fired-hours-after-ceasefire

🙄

I note you failed to mention the Israel air atacks - the ones that killed folk minutes before the ceasefire started but you probabbly think that was ok despite the civilians deaths.

You could have at least felt some sympathy for the innocents who died minutes before.

Something of a presumption there Junky?

Got any proof that any [i]'innocent civilians'[/i] died in the minutes before the ceasefire - seems to me that you've just made a leap that any palestinian who died is automatically an innocent civilian, and that you have chosen to accept [i]anything[/i] that originates out of pallywood news organisations on face value sort of reveals your own unwavering support of anything Hamas does 😉

Wow. "Unwavering support" Zulu. What a preposterous accusation, and if anyone other than someone of your type made it, I'd be disgusted.

By the way, I'd be surprised if a few innocent civilians didn't snuff it as the IDF is never really that worried about a bit if collateral damage, as they've proved over and over again with their method of disproportionate retaliation.

Normally, I'd just try and ignore you - but have a word with yourself. Are you having a bad day or something?

He is just geting more provocative to get a reaction and once more DD you were weak enough to bite and reply
Best to just ignore him and his scribbles as all he wants is a reaction and attention

No one takes him or his views serioulsy least of all Z-11

JY and DD - you still in bed together? 🙂

Thats right Junky - anyone who [b]dares[/b] to disagree with you is obviously trolling 🙄

By the way, I'd be surprised if a few innocent civilians didn't snuff it as the IDF is never really that worried about a bit if collateral damage, as they've proved over and over again with their method of disproportionate retaliation.

Hmm, 1500 air raids, 160 [b]total[/b] killed, ie including those who weren't innocent - sort of disproves your point doesn't it.

Nice quote from Russia Today:

Gaza's health ministry has appealed to people to refrain from firing guns into the air after celebratory gunfire killed one Palestinian and injured three others,

Whereas normally that would have been put down to Israeli Snipers 😐

someone of your type

Is that supposed to be a Jewish dig Deadlydarcy?

Only someone of your type would take a level of civilian casualties and somehow be pleased with it Zulu. Personally, I'm no fan of seeing anybody killed whoever he or she is, innocent or guilty. I guess you'd have be a certain type to be so accepting of it.

tyger 😆 I wish.

I'll resist the all too easy retort as it'll just start the thread down the road to closure.

someone of your type

Is that supposed to be a Jewish dig Deadlydarcy?

Wow of all your lame attempts at trolling that one is particularly pathetic. 😆

Member
JY and DD - you still in bed together?

So you really have nor reply and you and sanj will just do the gentle mocking attacks
Easier than actually answering the questions put to you evidently.
Quite pathetic - literally.
Would you like to explain how the International recognised boundaries that Israel violates and illegally settles are not line in the sand

B oth so vocieferous and yet you cannot answer the questions put to you- dont let this make you think about your position though