[Closed] Another war in Gaza

I was wondering what the cheeky Geordie scamp had been up to now?

Oh you git 😆 binners I had to check my spelling then. Phew.

Drop a massive a-bomb on the middle east.

Drop a massive a-bomb on the middle east.

*frowny emoticon*

So here we go again how do you stop the cycle of Hamas lobbing rockets at Southern Israel and then the retaliation?

... oh

OK then, wot Joe said. Not [i]too [/i]massive though; wouldn't want to bugger up the oily side of the equation

Deal with the the Zionist untermensch to stop them behaving like the Nazis unless someone can tell us what part the Palestinians played in the holocaust.

Does that mean the world population will decrease?

I suggest arming both sides with super doper nuclear maggot atomic bombs ... so they can help Dear Leader wipe the mankind from earth.

[ad mode with macho voice on] Mankind, the parasite that needs extermination! [ad mode with macho voice off]

Yes, please start a war and this time makes it the mother of all wars!

Where, oh where, is Kaesae to tell us what to think?

Still think the situation would be fundamentally improved if the israelis could bring themselves to stop acting like terrorists. Doesn't seem to be asking too much.

Both sides are ****s frankly but one side is at least honest about it.

how do you stop the cycle of Hamas lobbing rockets at Southern Israel and then the retaliation?

I would then use International pressure and sanctions to stop them acting illegally, settling land, ignoring UN resolutions and have a word with the US who bank roll it all and enable it.

Northwind neither side is great for sure but Israels version of peace is to encircle their land, stop free movement and keep them oppressed for ever pausing only to smite them with mighty rockets from the air when they get cross- I believe we call this assassination and t generally frowned on. It is never going to lead to peace why can they not see this?

What's with all this talks about oppressors or being oppressed etc ...

Mankind are maggots!

Please reduce human population as they are polluting the air Dear Leader breaths in ...

😈

as you seem confused.

I think you will find Hamas has been firing rockets into southern Israel FACT

The victims are the normal people on both sides who are living in fear of something landing on them and going bang.

The more I work in the region, the more I have completely irrational thoughts that the only solution might well be to annihilate the entire population of the region running from the Mediterranean coast of Lebanon/Israel and ending somewhere off the coast of Bahrain/Qatar.

It's a silly thing to say (of course) and I don't [i]actually[/i] think that it's a sensible solution, yet the more time I spend in the Middle East the more I feel that the culture which pervades the entire region is one of utter menace and brutality.

Nothing will or can come good of the Middle East in the next 50 years.

Israel will always assert its right to defend itself, as any other "western" country in the world would also. Palestinians with good cause will continue to fight for what they perceive to be their own land, and the idea of a two state solution is quite silly. If you can bear to look at the issue from both sides (and not just to a STW style...**** the Israelis...**** the Palestinians type of thing) then you will realize that neither side is right, nor is either side wrong and that there is no solution which is satisfactory in the slightest bit to either party...so leave your western logic at home.

Further North in Lebanon and Syria, there will never be an end to sectarianism, as long as Iran and Saudi continue to fight proxy wars in the world.

In most of the rest of the region rising salafism will drive further mindless savagery against anyone who opposes it.

Sad outlook...but think back to this post in 20 years.

Israels version of peace is to encircle their land, stop free movement and keep them oppressed

You do realise what the border between Gaza and Egypt looks like I take it?

[img] http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a51d78e6970c-800wi [/img]

I think the world should start adding fuel to fire to make Dear Leader's dream comes true ... 😈

Maggots are multiplying like no tomorrow ... squash them for fun.

Difference is, Egypt actually put their border on the border. There's a bit of a difference between not being able to freely nip into another country, and not being able to reach your own land because someone built a wall across it, no? Or the water supply that your city relies on?

There will only be a negotiated peace that's worth anything when the yanks stop payrolling the Israeli military and the rest of the international community actually do something about the crimes against humanity that are perpetrated by the state of Israel.

You guys accusing Israel of being the aggressor in this particular round of violence do know that it started with rockets being fired into Israel from Gaza right? There have been over 100 over the last month.

You guys accusing Israel of being the aggressor in this particular round of violence do know that it started with rockets being fired into Israel from Gaza right? There have been over 100 over the last month.

I suppose those rockets were fired in retaliation to what Israel did previously?

Round and Round. Of course a cynic would say that this continuous aggro suits Israel's land grab policies down to a tee.

El-bent - Member

I suppose those rockets were fired in retaliation to what Israel did previously?

They might well say they're in response to what Israel continues to do- illegal settlement, annexation, everyday oppression, etc.

Like I say- both sides are ****s.

By which measure the people of Cyprus should be happily hammering s*** out of the northern half of the island with rockets and kidnapping and murdering Turkish soldiers?

Another war in Gaza

Pigface - Member

There will be no palestinians in the west bank in 30 years time. And god knows what the final designs are on the gaza strip will be.

Sneaky edit as first response would be misinterpreted

Are you a stirrer or a Zionist? Do you support other ethnic cleansing?

WTF? Is that question aimed at me?

[img] [/img]

Oops, misinterpreted your initial response to Seosama.

told ya

Junkyard you really are the new TJ aren't you .

Why bless you I was always TJ light but now his star has dimmed a few seem to want to add this mantle to me. I have no real opinion but it would be easier to debate the points rather than this witty moniker

I think you will find Hamas has been firing rockets into southern Israel FACT

The victims are the normal people on both sides who are living in fear of something landing on them and going bang.

Poor old Zulu no one answering your scribbling 😥

Pigface - Member

Sneaky edit as first response would be misinterpreted

I'll freely admit you only saw the first sentence in my post. i just decided to say a little more and emphasis that the palestinians have lived in a state of war for many years, there is no new war.

Junky my dear thing you are a card, please point out to me where I have said anything about the oppression by Israel of Palestinians?

So you understand me and can't take anything out of context "Israels treatment of the Palestinians is a crime against humanity and utterly inexcusable"

Why have you brought up South Africa and apartheid? Very odd.

I have no real opinion

And yet......

😉

No my response was a sneaky edit, as you said to your first sentence.

Dont think I am going to post on this subject again. I know it is emotive but what with being called confused by Junkyard it isnt worth the grief 😀

how do you stop the cycle of Hamas lobbing rockets at Southern Israel and then the retaliation?

"Israels treatment of the Palestinians is a crime against humanity and utterly inexcusable"

Your banter and attempts to goad are far better than your ability to reason [ though that is indeed damning with faint praise]

How about this "How do we stop the cycle of Israel killing Palestinians and them retaliating?

Why would I want to goad you?

So here we go again how do you stop the cycle of Hamas lobbing rockets at Southern Israel and then the retaliation?
Yes I understand the long standing problems of the area but it just seems so futile.

Marmite.

Not my idea, that De Bono lateral thinking chappie reasoned that unleavened bread was low in zinc.

What doesnt seem to get reported over here i.e. in the UK is the amount of rockets that are fired from Gaza - 760+ since the start of this year and 2500 since 2009. If that were the UK under fire, there'd be uproar.

In terms of Peace, who should Israel be negotiating with? Hamas has a doctrine not to recognise Israel and calls for it's destruction. Kind of a tough partner to be dealing with, especially Hamas and Hezbollah are supported by Iran.

Every generation of Israelis hope that their kids won't have to do National Service but it's pie in the sky as they know that there won't be a lasting peace any time soon.

nim - Member

What doesnt seem to get reported over here i.e. in the UK is the amount of rockets that are fired from Gaza - 760+ since the start of this year and 2500 since 2009. If that were the UK under fire, there'd be uproar.

You remember when the UK was under terror threat... Did we respond by arbitrarily killing civilians in the country where the threat came from?

OK, well, to be fair we did a bit. But not as a matter of policy.

You can talk of the number of rocket attacks, but a casual glance at the civilian casualty figures tells the story better. This year, 118 palestinians, 11 israelis. Last year, 81 palestinians, 8 israelis.

Or, to put a different light on it... The number of palestinian children killed by Israel, was greater than the total number of israelis killed in the same period. Mmm.

But again, this isn't good guy/bad guy. This is about understanding that there is no good guy here. But only one of the bad guys is a government, representing its people, with international support, despite being frequently in defiance of the UN.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that a modern government should be better than terrorists.

What doesnt seem to get reported over here i.e. in the UK is the amount of rockets that are fired from Gaza - 760+ since the start of this year and 2500 since 2009. If that were the UK under fire, there'd be uproar.

In terms of Peace, who should Israel be negotiating with? Hamas has a doctrine not to recognise Israel and calls for it's destruction.

Kind of a tough partner to be dealing with, especially Hamas and Hezbollah are supported by Iran.

Every generation of Israelis hope that their kids won't have to do National Service but it's pie in the sky as they know that there won't be a lasting peace any time soon.

*

Based on the principles of Islamic fundamentalism gaining momentum throughout the Arab world in the 1980s, Hamas was founded in 1987 (during the First Intifada) as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.[15][16] Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987 and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988 that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.[17][18] In July 2009, Khaled Meshal, Hamas's Damascus-based political bureau chief, said the organization was willing to cooperate with "a resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict which included a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders," provided that Palestinian refugees hold the right to return to Israel and that East Jerusalem be the new nation's capital.

Its not great from ether side but as nothwind notes the cause cannot be ignored in these ignoble stats

In terms of Peace, who should Israel be negotiating with? Hamas has a doctrine not to recognise Israel and calls for it's destruction. Kind of a tough partner to be dealing with, especially Hamas and Hezbollah are supported by Iran.

Why would Israel want to negotiate? They created the conditions for the likes of Hamas to flourish and it all ties in with the land grabs.

So you have one extremist element(zionists) against the other(hamas) with ordinary people getting caught up in it.

Like I said, one big merry go round, but without the merry.

I am not saying the attitudes of the Palestinians dont need to change, they do. However Israel has to be the first to do something as they are the starting point for the long walk to peace.

Like a unilateral ceasefire?

Good luck getting a response this time

What, are you afraid that your astute and reliable arguments might be undermined by pertinent and polite questions like asking whether Israel announcing a unilateral ceasefire might have had any effect on Hamas rocket attacks in the past?

weak 🙄

A most excellent goad 😆

Unfortunately Zulu its just another Junkyard attention-seekingfest

Result, a response and a kindred spirit

Why not be polite together?

Junkyard - Member

I think if we were doing what israel is to Palestine there would indeed be uproar. If the people we were treating like this were bombing us I would not be surprised and nor would I expect peace if we continued to so this

I'm not sure there would be uproar. There are 1 million Israelis in the cities within a 35km radius of Gaza that need to run to bomb shelters several times a day, and over the course of the last 7 years, on average once every couple of weeks. It takes under a minute from the sound of a siren for a rocket to fall in those cities. try, for a minute to imagine what you're day to day routine would feel like in those circumstances. you would want military action, you would expect it.

It also doesn't help to compare statistics of deaths on both sides. That there have been more deaths on the Palestinian side doesn't change the fact that they are launching rockets into civilian populations, and oftentimes doing that from locations near schools or religious centers. Al Jabri was taken out in a pin point missile strike when his car was isolated. but that doesnt stop the bbc quoting palestinian officials raving about a 'massacre of their women & children'. which is now their default reaction to anything Israel does, regardless of initial cause or reality.

Yes, israel is militarily a lot stronger than Hamas, but the fact that Hamas have poor quality rockets shouldn't be used to justify the fact they are launching those rockets into civilian populations, or vilify a response to that.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. While before 2005 Gaza was 'occupied', now it is not, but that will not be enough as Hamas just doesn't recognize Israel. That is the root of the problem. There are no rockets launched form the west bank into Israel - Where Fatah, despite its dissatisfaction with the Israeli government recognizes that peace will involve compromise.

Careful JY, next thing you'll be accused of being a terrorist sympathiser, even though I'd find it hard to believe somebody doing that on an open forum.

Surely this whole thing is just a side issue? The popadom's and chutney, if you like. before the fiery madras main course of nuking Iran?

I wish they'd get on with it!

Easy, just tell the Americans to stop bankrolling Israeli's bullying of the Palestinians

Its not that simple though - they'll fight in the middle east no matter what you do or say. Look at Shia v Sunni, look at inter-tribal.

Then look at Jews v Muslim going back centuries to before the Prophet Mohammed and the slaughter/wars etc then.

Israel has its fanatical nutjobs- all sides do and the treatment of the Palastinans is shocking. Disgusting. However if Israel softened it'd be attacked wholesale.

On Iran- it can't let Iran carry on with the weapons program.

Its in a no-win situation from all sides.

What do you mean, another war? When did it end?

Save them, Tony!
[img] [/img]

I wonder how many thousands will be waiting for him on the otherside.

We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.

Lets be honest - if they all wipe each other of the the face of the earth, amongst the islamo-fascist nut-jobs, homicidal dictators and zionists, I can't think of anyone who'd be missed.

Then we could negotiate for oil rights, with the genetically mutated rats and cockroaches, who are the only survivors once the radioactive cloud has subsided

* I know we're doing this already. Lets sell 'em nukes too. The whole shebang

Binners you're a political conundrum aren't you. I've been trying to figure out what your politics actually are and the only word I can come up with so far is 'extreme' 😀

It's kind of funny and frightening at the same time, in a Doctor Strangeglove sort of way 😯

Every generation of Israelis hope that their kids won't have to do National Service but it's pie in the sky [s]as they know that there won't be a lasting peace any time soon.[/s] Because the Palestinians refuse to give up the ghost and move.

FTFY.

SS77, that was an interesting chart on land grabbing, do you have a source for it as I would use it for my Modern Studies SYS.

I was just thinking the same about Binners actually, veers from pole to political pole.

GT - my politics alternate between touchy-feely liberal and hang'em and flog'em, borderline fascist depending on what type of day I'm having 😀

We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.

Of corse, because they're all barbaric savages, unlike we peaceful civilised westerners. Of course. Because we never start wars with other nations, or bully countries with natural resources into giving us their products at a price we demand, oh no. We're the guardians of peace, love, justice and tranquility. Of course. And anyone who argues against this is mad and should be put down like dogs.

The quickest way to stop war between Israel and Palestine would be to nuke the USA. Most Israelis would then leave Israel, the UK would be a frightened poodle without an owner, and The Arabs would then have control of all the oil, and become economically dominant.

Which is why the West continues to support a nuclear power in the Middle east and wants to oppress any other nation with designs on protecting it's own interests.

I'd imagine China are quietly looking at the whole situation with great interest.

Binners = proof that humour can be used when talking about tragedy.

You cheeky controversial silly sausage

You'd think after all this time that Hamas would've developed better rockets with more 'effective' warheads (chemical or biological), and held-off attacking until they could do the job properly.

I'd imagine China are quietly looking at the whole situation with great interest.

They'll need to hurry up, exactly how many decades of oil are left in the middle east?

I would imagine the threat of an effective chemical/biological attack is half the reason for Israel having nuclear arms.

MAD innit.

You'd think after all this time that Hamas would've developed better rockets with more 'effective' warheads (chemical or biological), and held-off attacking until they could do the job properly.

Of course, Israel wouldn't dream of ever breaching the Geneva Convention or International LAw.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-s-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-weapons/30892

Israel tests new weapons in combat. Against Lebanon in 2006 and Gaza during Cast Lead, it used direct energy weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, and others producing injuries and symptoms medical professionals never previously saw.

For example, bodies with dead tissue had no apparent wounds. Corpses were found shrunken. Civilians had heavy lower limb damage requiring amputations. Nonetheless, unstoppable necrosis followed (death of cells and living tissue) followed by death.

Internal wounds had no trace of shrapnel. Corpses were blackened but not burned. Some badly wounded victims didn’t bleed. The Palestinian health ministry said Israel used a new type explosive in Gaza. It contained toxins and radioactive materials. They burned and tore victims’ bodies from the inside. They also left long term deformations.

A Palestinian doctor accused Israel of using chemical ammunition that burns and injures soft tissue, but can’t be traced by X-rays. Severe internal wounds were reported. Unknown gases believed to be nerve agents were used. Those affected lost consciousness for about 24 hours. They experienced high fevers and muscle rigidity. Some needed urgent blood transfusions.

In Gaza, white phosphorous was used. It burns flesh to the bone. Depleted uranium spread radioactive contamination. Close-range explosives caused severe injuries, requiring amputations. Children had legs cut off, abdomens sliced open, or died because nothing could save them.

Michael - they're at the same point in their history as we were in Europe in 1914. Absolutely chomping at the bit to open a big can of whoop'ass, and get all medieval on each others asses!

And quite frankly they won't be happy until they do. Maybe, unlike us Europeans, they'll do such a good job of the first one, they won't need to have a re-run/decider a few years later?

Which is why we should be selling them nukes. Ultimately, its for their own benefit. And if BAE can make a bit of wonga out of it too.... result!

[i]out of chaos comes order - nietzsche[/i]

It also doesn't help to compare statistics of deaths on both sides.

It doesn't help when you're trying to make excuses for the fact that a supposedly modern democratic state is behaving much worse than a supposed bunch of rabid extremist terrorists.

And that's just in terms of deaths, never mind injuries, or taking away land, water supplies, demolishing homes, restriction of trade/movement.

But Israel is too close to it's nuclear targets to make the use of them a credible threat. If Hamas really wanted to rid their land of the pirate occupiers they should target the water supplies with RDDs, some water soluable radionuclides in their water would put Israel off.

they're at the same point in their history as we were in Europe in 1914. Absolutely chomping at the bit to open a big can of whoop'ass, and get all medieval on each others asses!

Mmm. More pint glass philosophy from your positin of great enlightenment and knowledge?

The rerason for much of the instability of the Middle east is due to western intervention; the USA have been quietyly supporting and arming various groups for many decades, as well as installing puppet dictators (Saddam was only dealt with when he'd served his usefulness and had ideas above his station) and generally undermining any attempts at bringing about peace. The myth that all Arabs are at each others' throats is one peddled by western propagandists and merely fuels the notion in the minds of the ignorant that all Arabs are warmongering savages. Meanwhile, the USA and the west have justified the invasion and opression of people in many countries as being in the interests of protecting democracy. When in fact it's all been about protecting western economic interests.

Whil the USA contiunues to weild disproportionate power, the world is not safe.

Israel tests new weapons in combat.

So do the Palestinians Michael. Trouble is, they appear to be rubbish! The Apollo full-suss bike of missiles, next to Israels full XTR, Carbon Nomad 😉

Quite frankly, I hope the Iranian ones are a bit better. Otherwise there's no telling where they'll end up landing.

EDIT: Thinking about it, Muslims are crap at making missiles. Saddam's Scuds were a massive disappointment in the end too. At least the Saudi's have had the good sense to buy there's off us. When it all goes off, my money's on the red and white tea towels.....

[img] [/img]

😀

It's unlikely to happen, but what would happen if the egyptian air force, with their western fighters, came to the aid of the Gazans?

Interesting to see that our (?) "Middle East Envoy" is giving University speeches in London this week. If he has no role, please will he resign as puppet envoy?

If he's out of the way that is probably a good thing.

my money's on the red and white tea towels.....

What does that actually mean? Bit early to be on the sauce, isn't it?

But he is the saviour? And the 50 greatest achievements page on his website needs refreshing.

51. Did something...

[great photo scuzz!]

While the USA continues to wield disproportionate power, the world is not safe.

Bang on Mike. Can't wait for the Chinese to take over as the leading global superpower. Finally we can all live in peace and harmony together, in a new era of mutual love, repect and trust

[img] [/img]

😆

binners - Member
We should just make a bit of money, and arm every country in the middle east up to the teeth*, then let them get on with it. They're all absolutely mad as arseholes, and just itching for a massive scrap anyway.
Lets be honest - if they all wipe each other of the the face of the earth, amongst the islamo-fascist nut-jobs, homicidal dictators and zionists, I can't think of anyone who'd be missed.
Then we could negotiate for oil rights, with the genetically mutated rats and cockroaches, who are the only survivors once the radioactive cloud has subsided
* I know we're doing this already. Lets sell 'em nukes too. The whole shebang

You seem to think Europe would survive. Posted this before but it's worth a read:

Israel refuses to confirm or deny it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, an official policy of nuclear ambiguity, also known as "nuclear opacity." This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to definitively describe its true nuclear policy, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[6]
In 2006, in his book The Culture of War, Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at Israel’s Hebrew University, wrote that since former United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates admitted that Israel had nuclear weapons, any talk of Israel's nuclear weapons in Israel can lead to "arrest, trial, and imprisonment." Thus Israeli commentators talk about "doomsday weapons" and the "Samson Option."

[b]"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force.[/b] Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. [b]Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under[/b].[22]
Ron Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that [b]in the "aftermath of a second Holocaust" Israel's surviving Dolphin-class nuclear missile submarines would retaliate not only against Israel's attackers, but "bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)" as well as the "holy places of Islam." He writes that "abandonment of proportionality is the essence" of the Samson Option.[/b][23]

America is its own worse enemy. Its going to pull out globally within 20yrs. Why?

It can't afford to fuel its Armed forces overseas at somepoint
Its trillion dollar debt its unsustainable soon

Voters will say 'why are we paying for foreigners'?

EEK!!!! 😯

So... what you're saying is that Israel is like Big Vern, with a nuclear arsenal?

[img] [/img]

Bluster. And they know it. Taking on the USA, Russia and China while fighting all of the states that surround it is certain suicide.

I am the only one who find the following disturbing and tasteless?

10.00 Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of events in Gaza, where the renewed conflict has entered a second day. [i]The Telegraph[/i]

1530: Hello and welcome to our live coverage of events in Gaza, where the leader of Hamas's military wing has been killed in an Israeli airstrike. [i]The BBC[/i]

Do these people need to be reminded that these events are a tragedy not a spectator sport?