[Closed] Another very lucky biker!

I've been a biker since 1977, and I agree with his own assessment that he's an idiot. It's just incompetence - in the longer version you can see that he's been riding badly for 3 minutes before the crash. He wasn't going too fast to get round (although he may have been over the speed limit), just riding some pretty poor lines.
Can't understand weeksy et al who defend him - what if it had been a cyclist coming the other way? - there wouldn't have been much left. Unfortunately the standard driving/riding test does not cover this kind of stuff - it ought to.

They ought to open it up in a nurburgring style, say every first Sunday of the summer months, 5am till 8am. Have some organ donation vans at the ready. Those who can ride will be ok, those who think they can ride will maybe be helping others out without endangering anyone else. 😐

Wrightyson I can't decide whether that is glib and callous or a stroke of genius.

Daftest thing (other than riding beyond his limit) he did was post it up for all to see.

Youthfull exuberance got the better of him. Been there, done that, but age and common sense appears to have kicked in over the years.

Watching the full video I'd be surprised if he was travelling faster than the posted limit, and that particular corner can be taken a lot faster than that without any trouble.

cock.

if he wants to ride like that, do it on a track.

If he'd have stayed behind the first rider he'd have been fine - excellent line and controlled speed... He'd could have learnt a lot from him.

I thought exactly that, rider in front was clearly faster than cam-man as a consequence of being smooth and positioning (i.e. riding better). He slows down approaching the rider in front and matey obviously thinks 'here's my chance'. there were a couple of points earlier on where I thought he was going to undertake him.

The bend is a bugger as it tightens up, but he clearly didn't know the road well enough to be aware of that and adjust speed accordingly (which his lack of ability makes necessary).

Ultimately he's chancing it, whether he realised it or not and is lucky he didn't pay a higher price.

TL;DR: Idiot

I have witnessed absolutely crazy maneuvers such as overtaking on blind corners and wonder what goes through someone's mind to do such a daft thing.

iolo - Do you ride a bike? Just curious. The only reason I ask is that what can be perveived as dangerous or crazy by a non biker can be perfectly safe for an experienced biker on a very fast machine. I'm not saying that this applies in the cases that you mention, just it's a common misconception.

None of you overtake on Double whites ?

Yep, then a police car came round the corner. They did a u-turn, pulled me over, made me watch the video of my driving, told me I was an idiot and issued me with points and a fine. 😳

Not done it again since.

It's also a common misconception for bikers to imagine they can do do stuff that appears reckless safely.

This video was on our local BBC news last night. The Cheshire police are investigating.

The Cat and Fiddle road is part of one of Macclesfield Forest mtb loops. Over the years we've changed our route to avoid what is a dangerous place for any cyclist to be. The Leek - Buxton Road also very dangerous in that area.

It's also a common misconception for bikers to imagine they can do do stuff that appears reckless safely.

Not that common, most only do it once! 😯

Stereo typing people due to their choice of transport isn't very helpful either.

Motorcyclists/bikers/whatever receive bad press due to the actions of the minority. I can think of another group of lawless, wreckless two wheeled terrorists that receive bad press, and they don't even pay road tax!!"!11 😉

I with the majority here in saying the biker is a turnip!

Yes we've all made the odd misjudgement or mistake on a corner. But I'm talking about drifting a bit too close to the middle of road or making a mid corner correction. Not being on completely the wrong side of the road.

I don't think it is ever acceptable to go round a corner and get it that wrong on a public road. When there are other people using the road too you have to keep it within the lines at the very least.

His road position is totally wrong for a tightening bend.

He obviously isn't very experienced (or skilled).

cbmotorsport - Member

iolo - Do you ride a bike? Just curious. The only reason I ask is that what can be perveived as dangerous or crazy by a non biker can be perfectly safe for an experienced biker on a very fast machine. I'm not saying that this applies in the cases that you mention, just it's a common misconception.

I have a bike license. Owned a CBR600F for 5 years. I'll be honest I didn't ride it as much as I should have. I still think these manouvers are bloody stupid.
My neighbour in Vienna is keeping his Ducati 1098 Panigale in my garage and has said I can take it out. I haven't taken him up on his offer yet.

I have a bike license. Owned a CBR600F for 5 years. I'll be honest I didn't ride it as much as I should have. I still think these manouvers are bloody stupid.
My neighbour in Vienna is keeping his Ducati 1098 Panigale in my garage and has said I can take it out. I haven't taken him up on his offer yet.

Fair enough.

PS TAKE THE PANIGALE FOR A SPIN!!!!!!!

I will when I get back to Vienna. I'm in Snowdonia now.

Yep, then a police car came round the corner. They did a u-turn, pulled me over, made me watch the video of my driving, told me I was an idiot and issued me with points and a fine

I had a guy in a camper right on my tail once driving through an area of double white lines, really pressing on my bumper trying I'm guessing to make the Newhaven Ferry. As I use my mirrors I was aware that the car behind him was a police car. I don't think he'd thought to use his, he went sailing past me to be followed by the police car when safe. I saw him stopped a short way up the road - I guess he didn't get his ferry and there's only one a day. Made me smile.

I have been riding for 25 years, and have yet to meet a biker who didn't make a fool of himself at some stage. Car drivers are absolutely no different either. Now I'm not defending him, as his riding clearly left a fair bit to be desired, but I'm also pretty sure I saw a young lad who was smart enough to know he had royally messed up, and was attempting to warn others away from the same mistake.
Unfortunately, I now don't ride with other bikers, unless I know they are not going to ride like a ****. Highland roads are virtually empty which usually encourages somewhat excessive speeds, and like similar areas the death toll rockets here in the summer.
Im guessing that the police aren't investigating this video, more a case of yes we know about it, he has been "dealt with" and next!!!

He doesnt have the talent to ride a big bike. Do you think he'll consider that or just think 'living on the edge' in a few months?

I've had to deal with families of dead bikers, and car drivers who have been screwed up by being hit by bikers pulling stunts like this and dying.

Selfish and stupid. But plenty of selfish and stupid behaviour by car drivers too.

'I'd ride a bike around a track. Anyone with a family who rides on roads like this doesnt care about their families feelings.

He clearly, and deliberately, crosses the double lines overtaking at the beginning.

Although while illegal that looked safe enough.

No argument on the guy being an idiot though. Having said that I was following a police rider (during a rider awareness course) who misjudged a corner and did something very similar (the police rider was also consistently speeding, tending to sit at 80mph or so in 60mph limits). He was a considerably better rider though, so managed to lean the bike way over and recover to his own side of the road and miss the oncoming vehicle. From where I was watching I thought he was dead and I'd have to be explaining to his colleagues what happened!

I've had to deal with families of dead bikers, and car drivers who have been screwed up by being hit by bikers pulling stunts like this and dying.

Cycling club mate had retired, and the following went out for his first mid-week ride with a friend. Got hit by a biker who had crossed the double whites. Both he and biker killed. So unnecessary. Long Hill (also near Buxton) for those who know it.

talent

WTF has this got to do with riding a bike on the public highway. Keep it to the track and show some respect.

I ride a bike on track, in fact I did it all day on Saturday, so did Mrs Weeksy, we have a gsxr750 k7 track bike.

I also ride on the road.

Iolo, don't ride the Panic, they are not normal bikes, they are an assault on the senses and truely brutal. They power harder than your brain can actually register.

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a dangerous road - yes
a prick on a bike - yes

no on e has mentioned that the road is now a 50 mph limit enforced by rear facing cameras to catch all speeders inc motorbikes

I cant see how he couldnt have made it around that bend IF he was going under 50

There's a reason I no longer road ride on the Cat & Fiddle on summer weekends and its entirely due to bellend motorcyclists like that.

Had that car been 1m further forwards, or had it been a peloton of cyclists, the motorcyclist would have been straight into them. Car - well he'd probably be dead and there's a good chance the driver would have ended up injured or dead too.
Bunch of cyclists - doesn't bear thinking about, it'd be similar to that horrific incident in North Wales a few years ago.

He made the corner so much harder for himself by dropping back in to the left instead of sticking to the right of the road. If he had done this then he might have given himself so much more road to play with.

So glad it ended like that as not only was this going to happen sooner or later, but he's scouting around left handers,inside line.. not knowing if there's cyclists. No room for error.

As someone once said to me after noticing that I wasn't positioned right on the road on the motorbike (having ridden so much closer to the inside on pushbikes most of my life) 'use the whole road, you pay to use it so (*&)%^£$£$"! USE IT!'

Yep. He should have stayed out wide right on the approach to that corner - ignoring the double whites if necessary.

scotroutes - Member
Yep. He should have stayed out wide right on the approach to that corner - [s]ignoring the double whites[/s][b]Slowing Down[/b] if necessary.

If you need to cross the double whites to safely ride round a corner then your doing it wrong.

Simple rule is can you stop in the distance you can see. He compounded the error by being on the inside and reducing his view.

^^^^ that. A rule that I would hazard a guess half the country's drivers and motor bike riders do not even think about let alone obey and dare I say it probably applies to a similar proportion of cyclists too.

I am hoping the local constabulary follows this up. He was split seconds from causing a probable multiple fatality.

Don't understand why people keep mentioning race tracks. Riding on a race track and riding on the road are two skillsets with basically no overlap at all, beyond the rudiments of a bike's controls.

Maybe not realising that is part of the problem for guys like this.

(Seen blood riders on a mission a few times. For the handful of seconds you get to observe them applying the system it's a privilege, there, past, gone - was he ever really here...?)

My simple rule (I just remembered, I told this to a 13 year old who used to come mtbing with us when I took him out in my Honda Aerodeck 🙂 )
is, when on back roads/windy roads, ALWAYS expect there to be something coming the other way.
Would've worked for numpty in the video.

Simple rule is can you stop in the distance you can see

Half the distance you can see.

klumpy - Member

Don't understand why people keep mentioning race tracks. Riding on a race track and riding on the road are two skillsets with basically no overlap at all, beyond the rudiments of a bike's controls.

What in the name of jeezus are you on about here?

Well i cant remember the last time i was at a track and they had vehicles traveling the other way for a start.

trail_rat - Member

Well i cant remember the last time i was at a track and they had vehicles traveling the other way for a start.

That doesn't mean that riding on track requires different skills, hand action, viewing, etc... it's the same thing, just a different environment.

So your telling me you hold onto your own side of the track , you go round corners on the track expecting vehicles to be coming towards you , potholes , debris etc etc, its a different mentality- being able to switch between the two is a skill but too many folk treat the road as if it was a track . Had your man there in the video been on a track he would have ridden out of that no bother. - wrong lines but the tracks alot more forgiving.

Even the tt riders agree that road racing is mental and is entirely different to track riding.....and thats closed road.

Iolo, don't ride the Panic, they are not normal bikes, they are an assault on the senses and truely brutal. They power harder than your brain can actually register.

Eh?

They only power as hard as you let them with your right hand. Ride it, just don't go mental.

Keep it on a track day. Why should others participate in a driver (or riders) exuberance/feeling 'on it'/showing his following mates how to ride quickly/trying to keep up with a mate on a ride out/showing off/making good progress etc.

Luckily(?) you don't see much of this on Snake Pass but you do see some utter tools overtaking on double-white lines into blind bends.

Theres fresh flowers on one such bend though recently there.

I'll admit that for a while I drove very quickly/had my car sideways a few times but someone on Pistonheads called 10penceshort posted up his prison experience/diaries of what happens when you go out for a drive and someone gets hurt. Very sobering reading.

Reading that slowed me right down.

@weeksy

Riding on the road is about forward observation, lines are chosen above all else to aid visibility and are decided ad hoc as the situation unfolds, all roads are ridden as though you've never seen them, anything you can't see is a hazard, brakes are used sparingly if at all.

Riding on the track is about learning the way and putting in utterly consistent inch perfect laps - despite what you can or can't see, lines are chosen for maximum speed, brakes are used late and hard.

They're very [b]very[/b] different.

Riding on the track is about learning the way and putting in utterly consistent inch perfect laps - despite what you can or can't see, lines are chosen for maximum speed, brakes are used late and hard.

Track days can be many things to all men. Some go on them for fun, some to improve, some to see how fast a bike or car can go, some to see how a car will slide, improve their skills away from street furniture.

That last couple of words. Its about having legal fun without slamming into a kerb hard. Nevermind the other stuff like railings, power boxes, signs or...trees.

10penceshort posted up his prison experience/diaries of what happens when you go out for a drive and someone gets hurt. Very sobering reading.

+1. They should have made that thread compulsory reading for the theory test.

[url= http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=442266&mid=0&i=40&nmt=Prison%3F&mid=0 ]Starts on page 3[/url]

It's obvious we're not going to get even close to agreeing on this thread, so i'll bow out.

weeksy there is overtaking on double whites, cutting the apex to make it smoother but thats a concious act, one that you are in control of. Going into a bend and spitting yourself wide- thats lack of talent and/or ability on that bike.

Overtaking on a double-white? If its on a straight- ENOUGH room and you have the power of a decent bike, why not?

Different situation to not being properly in control though isn't it?

Overtaking on a double-white? If its on a straight- ENOUGH room and you have the power of a decent bike, why not?

Because double whites are mandatory perhaps? But I suppose you expected someone to say that.

On Snake Pass in parts you can overtake on double-whites and in one place it doesn't have them but really REALLY needs them:

From Glossop way- over the long climb, crested the top- after the first blind corner you can see for >1mile ahead clearly- you can take 2+ cars there in one safe overtake on the doublewhite.

Just after this section is some very long wide and very blind swooping bends....with no double-whites. Here you see lots of tyre marks where people have driven off into the grass/through wire fences to avoid sudden head ons.

If you don't know the road (or are inpatient)- its suicidal but understandable that someone would be tricked into thinking an overtake there would be safe. Its lethal.

Anyone ride up to the cat and fiddle for the wildboarclough descent? Makes me think twice about it now, too much testosterone on bikes up there.

The law - Double Whites.

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26

His approach into the left handler was all wrong top and bottom of it!
Hope the police throw the book at him, he deserves it!

trout - Member
The guy was a lucky plankton
what if the oncoming car had been a chaingang out for a ride and been a few metres further up the road like say just where he lost it
it would have been like ten pin bowling with human skittles

Weeksy your a tool and know it

race tracks for racing
roads for getting from A to B safely

Harsh, I think we've all been that idiot at one point in our past, whether you choose to admit it is up to you. When I was a young pup I took liberties that make me wince when I think back, I'm still here by luck alone.

If the chap in the vid is lucky he'll learn and reign it in, I did, although at his age you couldn't tell me **** all :D.

Cat n'Fiddle was my play ground back in the 90's, I stopped riding up there when a bike overshot a corner on to my side and passed between me and the verge to my left, certainly got my attention at the time.

drove over cat and fiddle today

just after mid day, thick fog, car infront of me was silver, had no lights on - completely disappered 4 car lentghs in front of me, I had full lights and front and rear fog lights blazing

when I pulled up next to him at the buxton end T junction - I suggested he put his lights ON

unbeleiveable

Anyone ride up to the cat and fiddle for the wildboarclough descent?

Trout sums it up just right. The car driver could have ended up with a death on his conscience, mental issues for life and for what? So some prick with a complex can feel good about himself. Those on here justifying him are just as bad. If you want to ride it like you stole it, do a track day. Not difficult is it?

@mrchrispy, I mean the off road bit, when you get to the cat and fiddle, you go "off piste" down the bridlepath/right of way opposite, the gritty surface soon turns to babys head sized rocks, then a stream/riverbed, nice techy descent!

Just been reading that PH thread. Made me think.

I was contemplating an old E46 M3 next year to have some fun. Need to reconsider - driving and riding like that has no place on the roads.

Weeksy your a tool and know it

I wasn't in the video you know ?

Just because I perceive some actions differently to you, now we're into name calling hey ? Nothing like a bit of nice healthy debate on the internet for bringing out the best in people.

FWIW, I still think he deserves no punishment, he's already trashed his bike, no-one was hurt and whether you or I think so, he WILL learn from this mistake, we all do when we crash. It's impossible to crash and for it not to play on your mind to an extent, you run through the why, the how etc.
Hardest thing I found when racing bikes was getting back on and picking up the same speed instantly again.

On the road, when I crashed it was ususally a mistake by no-one other than me.. but sometimes I tried to believe it was someone elses fault. But over time, you slow down, gone are my days of 140mph on the road, my bike now does 100mph tops.

However, despite your thoughts.. I'm not really a tool. I'm just not a namby pamby nany boy like many others.

You'd probably hate the fact I let me 5 year old do jumps on his bike, put logs in the wood burner and chop bananas with a sharp knife too.

On viewing it again I was just thinking how the two lads he'd blitzed by seconds earlier must have been pissing themselves at his stupidity! The lad who was infront for most of the ride was so much smoother and seemed to take a defensive line towards the end to stop the idiot overtaking him. I'm sure at one point he (idiot) thought about doing him up the inside.

DezB - Member

when on back roads/windy roads, ALWAYS expect there to be something coming the other way. Would've worked for numpty in the video.

Nah, it wouldn't- he wasn't planning on running wide in the corner, after all. If he'd intentionally put himself there- trying to offside at the wrong time or something- you'd be spot on but this is about accidentally going somewhere you didn't want to, not about deciding to go somewhere you shouldn't.

if you replay it without the car I think he'd have crashed 10 feet further up the road. He might have got it together but frankly I doubt it, it's doable but I don't give him that much credit. (probably the skills to save the situation mostly belong to people who wouldn't have let it happen in the first place, lack of judgement is best mates with lack of skill)

On the road, when I crashed it was ususally a mistake by no-one other than me.. but sometimes I tried to believe it was someone elses fault. But over time, you slow down

I can't believe you think it's alright to have had 'crashes' on the road, especially if you have raced on a track, which is the [b]only[/b] place it is acceptable to be anywhere near the limit of you or your bikes capabilities! You sound like one of the many idiots I scrape off the road on a regular basis who haven't been quite so lucky.

BTW if anyone wants a nice, cheap fast bike, this namby pamby nany boy has his Suzuki RF900 up for sale! Email in profile for details.

?

I don't think anyone believes it's ok to crash anywhere. But some can accept that due to an overestimation of abilities/lack of experience/it'll never happen to me, you can put yourself in some unfortunate situations. As you get older you learn, hopefully this lad will.

I'd be surprised if we haven't all made a poor decision that could have affected others if it hadn't been for a healthy dose of luck, best hang, draw and quarter the lot of us really just to be sure.

flicker - Member

I don't think anyone believes it's ok to crash anywhere

<crosses teh streams> unless they're on a jury and the person crashed into a cyclist.

Only half joking- there's a common perception that crashing cars occasionally is just normal, and something that could happen to anyone but crashing bikes is a sign of insanity. My brother wrote off a car and two vans, it's a matter of occasional banter. I crashed a motorbike a couple of times, it's a matter of shocked horror. I never knocked over a ****ing bus stop though so it seems a bit unfair that!

I don't think it was alright that I crashed but I think it's understandable, you make millions of decisions in your driving/riding life so some will be bad, and some of those lead to bad places.

But this guy here, he didn't make [i]a[/i] mistake so it's not really comparable.

@ Northwind

The look of horror after you've been asked whether you'll be giving up bikes and getting yourself a safe little car, you then tell them you've bought something bigger and faster 😀

I think he just overestimated his ability and it all went a bit wrong, thankfully luck was on his side this time.

someone on Pistonheads called 10penceshort posted up his prison experience/diaries of what happens when you go out for a drive and someone gets hurt.

Hora, thanks for the heads up on this.

Without a doubt one of the most important things I've read online.

Has anyone got a link to 10penceshort's prison diary thread?
Have tried to find but cannot view for some reason?

Cheers

Found it!

I thought that was some comedy sketch at first due to the coppers voice/manerisms!
In that case I presume the car is still at fault as he pulled out?

[i]In that case I presume the car is still at fault as he pulled out?[/i]

Yes, you can presume that, but you'd be wrong. Quite worrying that you'd think that.

You think thats bad, you should see the Vettel wannabe's trying to out brake each other on the M27 where it changes from four lanes into three during the morning rush hour.

Its carnage.

Most people on this thread know very little about bikes bar the ones who pointed out his shitty fear induced line. That corner could be taken MUCH faster.

That corner could be taken MUCH faster.

Totally agree. I've watched the video a few times and whilst it was a crap line choice his own inability was to blame.

Why's it quite worrying? I'm not allowed a road bike and I would never make a manoeuvre such as the car did without fully being aware there were no bikers on the way down the white line.

At that speed i doubt he could be spotted