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Albert St this afternoon, all taped off with big police presence. My son lives there, he's safe thanks be, but what the hell? Stabbings? Knives never came into it when we used to pagger with the rival boyos. I just can't countenance sticking a blade into someone. Is this some horrible cultural thing? There seems to be more and more of it now.
Very common now, hence best not to argue as these idiots are prepared to knife someone for no reason/not a care about consequences. One of the local villages near me got a Section 60 on it this weekend for stop and search, then whole village, due to knife crime.
No worse than it used to be IMO - but then I grew up in glasgow in the 70s
TJ makes a valid point. I wouldn't have known about the Albert St. stabbing above unless I heard about it on social media. When I was younger and in my 'formative years' there was some pretty bad violence on the mean streets of Wigan. Never made the local press and social media was done over a pint in the pub so there wasn't the mass awareness that there is now.
No worse than it used to be IMO – but then I grew up in glasgow in the 70s
We were in Liverpool through the '90s, living in Toxteth.
We then lived in Sheffield S2 through the early noughties - and used to watch police camera action which had our house on it more than a few times.
Nothing really new under the sun sadly, I think we see more on the news though.
Yep, razor gangs, casuals with the blutac spaced Stanley blades, ridiculous jaggy pointy big knives. Always been always will be. Let's be thankful it's not guns.
I had to look up the word pagger as it's a new one to me and I'm only 40 mins from Edinburgh
90's Glasgow was pretty bad as well - lots of gangs roaming the streets. Used to go to the under 18's and everyone got searched yet there were frequent stabbings in the place. Ned culture doesn't seem quite as bad these days, the city is just full of junkies instead.
90s Glasgow was bad. Gangs from the schemes would go for nights out in the city centre and chib each other. Though innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time were hit as well. It was so bad that I think it was one of the drivers for the introduction of https://crime.scot/s49/ which criminalised carrying a bladed or sharply pointed object. Prior to that the police were using
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/1-2/14/section/1
which penalises carrying an offensive weapon. The problem being knuckle dusters were not being used. Everyday tools required proof of intent. So, for example, if someone was caught carrying a Stanley knife it had to be proved they intended it for slashing. There were court decisions where it was held that merely being in a city centre at 1am and part of a crowd on the periphery of a disturbance was not evidence of intent. Of course if someone was searched and found to have a knife and said under caution it was for "self defence" that was your proof.
The crackdown in the 90s in Glasgow involved a long running operation where on weekend nights large numbers of cops were brought into the city centre from outer areas to stop and search. Alongside longer sentences for possession or use. I think it broadly worked in making the city centre safer.
Incidentally the Stanley knife adapted with twin blades slightly seperated to create a ragged harder to stitch cut wasalso used in Glasgow. It however would have been classed as an offensive weapon before the law changed as it had been adapted to cause injury.
Back in the day,I was always more worried about getting glassed in (some) Edinburgh pubs,far more common than stabbings.
I live in the Dingle area of Liverpool (Toxteth but waterfront) - lived here until I was 17 then moved back again last year.
Its actually a heck of a lot better now than it was in the 70's and 80's when I was growing up. Knife crime is still bad, as is gun crime. But its no worse than similar areas in most cities throughout the country.
Social Media and the constant news updates probably highlights this a lot more rather than the frequency of it increasing.
When I was younger and in my ‘formative years’ there was some pretty bad violence on the mean streets of Wigan. Never made the local press and social media was done over a pint in the pub so there wasn’t the mass awareness that there is now.
Well I also grew up in Wigan (Norley Hall, so not exactly salubrious) in the 70s and 80s and was not aware of stuff like this going on, which kind of reinforces the point you make!
Incidentally the Stanley knife adapted with twin blades slightly seperated to create a ragged harder to stitch cut wasalso used in Glasgow. It however would have been classed as an offensive weapon before the law changed as it had been adapted to cause injury.
Am I missing something, you can buy dual bladed stanley knives in screwfix.
I live in the Dingle area of Liverpool (Toxteth but waterfront) – lived here until I was 17 then moved back again last year.
I fairly naively stayed in Sefton Park for a few months and would regularly walk through Toxteth park to get in and out of town for a night out at Mojo's.
There seems to be more and more of it now.
when we say "another" stabbing in Edinburgh as though this is a theme - when was the last one?
The press report I read, the police said, "there was no risk to the general public" or words to that effect. I've always read that as code for "this was a targeted attack probably over drugs".
The crackdown in the 90s in Glasgow involved a long running operation where on weekend nights large numbers of cops were brought into the city centre from outer areas to stop and search. Alongside longer sentences for possession or use. I think it broadly worked in making the city centre safer.
A large part of the success of the change is attributed to treating it like a health issue rather than a justice one. By tackling the root cause over a prolonged period rather than just using high-profile police and locking them up. Carrying knives at my Glasgow school in the 90s was pretty unremarkable, by the time I left school, one of my classmates was on remand for attempted murder and nobody was surprised.
I grew up in Livingston, I remember a lad getting slashed during a fight in the English class. 80s. Mates brother in law was stabbed to death in the 90s. Knife crime is not new sadly.
Am I missing something, you can buy dual bladed stanley knives in screwfix.
Two blades affixed side by side to create two cuts parallel to each other.
Thats right @poly.....and also stopping a certain shop on Argyle st from selling machetes to random folk. A mate of mine who was going through a torrid time in his teens (bullying, parents splitting up etc), completely lost the plot 1 night and appeared at a friends house carrying a machete that he purchased from VM on Argyle st, we managed to get it off him thankfully but it didn't stop him disappearing and causing a massive ruckus in an off licence in Bearsden Cross. That night set him off on a path we couldn't get him off and he's now no longer with us.
The health approach was part of it. In absolute numbers Strathclyde Police searched huge numbers of people though. More than the MET in London which has a far bigger population. Half a million searches in one year.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/strathclyde-police-stop-and-search-numbers-1512145
BTP were involved as well. I went into Glasgow for a night out back in the 90s. Anyone leaving Central Station was being scanned with a metal detector. I got searched when an Allen key set in my pocket set it off. And I was in my 40s, relatively smartly dressed not fitting the usual suspect profile.
Two blades affixed side by side to create two cuts parallel to each other.
traditionally a match was used to separate the blades. The purpose was to create a wound which was difficult to treat and would leave a bad scar.
No worse than it used to be IMO – but then I grew up in glasgow in the 70s
Im sure ive seen some statistics claiming that although overall violent crime hasn't risen, the number of violent crimes involving weapons has.
Specifically Scotland and in the last couple of decades
Scotland data from SG.
Non-sexual violent crime levels:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/recorded-crime-scotland-2020-2021/pages/3/
when we say “another” stabbing in Edinburgh as though this is a theme – when was the last one?
There was a woman murdered in the street in the middle of the day just a few weeks ago a few hundred yards down the road on Constitution St. Couldn't tell you when any others have been as I don't listen to local radio and I'm not on any SM.
I grew up in a quiet village in the 90s and there was the occasional stabbing. The only people who knew about them were those involved and the people they told.
A recent worrying frequency of stabbings reported in the Southampton Echo in the last month or so, last night there was a ~5 mile diameter police "stop and search" zone on the eastern fringes of the city.
Bristol and Swindon are seeing an increasing number of stabbings recently, in fact a stabbing death in Swindon yesterday, and at least a couple in Bristol over the last week or so, and in other places down here in the South West.☹️
but then I grew up in Glasgow in the 70s
Did you get such things in Kelvinside ?.
@poly some colleagues live in Leith and said there have been a few serious stabbings lately.
last night there was a ~5 mile diameter police “stop and search” zone on the eastern fringes of the city
From the perspective of the police, there is no downside to making a section 60 order. It gives police officers additional powers for a short period, but doesn't require them to do anything. I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/section/60?timeline=false
redmex
I had to look up the word pagger as it’s a new one to me and I’m only 40 mins from Edinburgh
I learned it from Viz and assumed it was a Geordie thing
Pagger was in use in NW England in the 80/90s.
assumed it was a Geordie thing
I think 'paggered' is a northern English thing. I'm an adopted Geordie and I've used it frequently meaning tired, exhausted, knackered etc.
I always understood 'pagger' to be fight and from Scotland.
IANALinguist 😁