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as you progress up the career ladder the rewards can easily outstrip those in the private sector.
Nonsense. Public sector workers even after taking into account the good terms and conditions are way way behind private sector on any comnparator.
Take me, Hugely experienced hands on staff nurse. Been at the top of the scale for years. Two professional qualifications one gained at my own expense. I support a lot of staff less experienced than me including junior doctors. I take decisions that affect peoples lives. I hold their hand when they are dying. Its a huge responsibility. £32000 gross pa.
Edit - or take my senior charge nurse. 24/7/365 responsibility for a ward. ( yes she is responsible for what happens there even when on holiday.) Highly skilled. 2 degrees. £35000 pa. ( approx.) for a level of responsibility almost no one in the private sector has any idea what its like. 48 hrs unpaid overtime this month
https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi
Fill yer boots all those who want the joy of PS working.
When I first became a team manager in the private sector in 1994, I started on the bottom of the pay scale at £16k. Decent perks like free canteen and parking, final salary pension, flexitime, 25 days leave.
A couple of redundancies and relocations later, in 2003 I started as a team manager in the public sector at the bottom of the pay scale at £16k. Parking and packed lunches took a fiver of that a day (started 16 miles a day cycle commuting!), 25 days leave, flexitime, no final salary pension.
Reckon we are still 9-10 years behind in salary. Our admin are still on minimum wage, which I think sucks as a position for the government to take.
in 25 years of my working life I’ve never had a pay rise…all my salary growth has come from career progression
Where are you working to never get a payrise? I've held several jobs at different private sector companies over the last decade and got yearly rises. For the last few years they might not have beaten inflation, but still an increase.
The problem is when the public want numerous services to be provided teaching, policing & health for example. What they don't want is having to pay for it and the expectation seems to be that these jobs should be lower paid than private sector jobs. Why? These jobs may not create what some see as traditional wealth into the economy but they add so much more to the social, emotional and mental wealth of society.
There seems to be a constant public sector is bad and adds nothing to society mantra from some areas of the political spectrum and media. It says a lot about our society that this is how we seem to think.
Private sector jobs constantly seem to complain about public sector 'golden' pensions, public sector is lazy, bloated etc. but still want the service.
I think it is also worth noting that many of the lowest paid in the public services are not even public sector workers as many of these jobs have been outsourced to private companies who pay the least they can get away with. Our bins are now an outsourced vendor and the service is notable worse than when it was council run.
What I find wrong is private companies not paying enough so their employees have to claim additional benefits to be able to get by so the state effectively subsidies these companies who still pay out large dividends to shareholders.
What we really need to do is start seeing the benefits of both private and public sectors both working on improving pay and conditions for all.
The public / private comparisons are a bit duff, there is no single public / private employment model. Sure if you're a consultant for Cap Gemeni, you have a pretty cushy package, but if you're a zero hours employee in one of Mile Ashley's warehouses outsourced to a slave labour company, the public sector probably looks pretty rosy...
What I find wrong is private companies not paying enough so their employees have to claim additional benefits
I'm more concerned that the government still pays so low that it's own staff have to rely on benefits, which they may themselves be helping administer!
Just looking at salary doesn't give you the whole picture with public vs private sector (I have worked in both).
The public sector has much better benefits in terms of sick leave, annual leave, pensions etc. Where I work we have an excellent training budget and are expected to use it. Flexible working and family friendly policies. And you pretty much have shoot somebody to get sacked (twice, cos the first shot could have been an accident) which means you have to work with numpties but they are slowly getting eradicated.
And you just meet nicer people in the public sector I have found, and the workplace demographic is more balanced (yes I know, huge generalisation) - also, you don't have to be such a giant male chicken to get promoted to senior levels.
public sector is lazy, bloated etc
my customer base is 80% local government and I would say that’s very rare if not almost non existent these days.
Also re Cap Gemini etc - I knew someone that worked at PWC once who enticed me to an interview. Yep I could earn £100k at the age of 27 - assuming I was very good at my job and willing to Work 80hr weeks. The culling policy at that level was brutal, and such was the alleged Kudos there were people lining up to take your job. No thanks.
willing to Work 80hr weeks
My neighbour in a young consultant at one of the top firms, 6 figure salary. I see him WFH at his desk at 8 in the morning when I go out to collect the HH feed bowls and still at his desk at 10pm when I go out again to put the food bowls out again. Maybe 15 years ago I'd have been keen but now I just can't be arsed and work 9-5 ish most days.
willing to Work 80hr weeks
I would bet a lot of teachers do similar tbh. Not a majority for sure but especially those with management roles.
As has been pointed out already, the private sector isn't made up purely of 100k earning managers.
By far the biggest proportion of employees in most large private firms are the lower paid staff.
Tbh I find it pretty incredible that folk in the public sector are conplaining about not getting a pay rise, when many in the private sector will lose their jobs at the end of this.
The folk who had a two year pay freeze in 2010, to pay for financial tomfoolery in the US?
The folk who had a pay cap from 2013 to 2018, because we're all in it together?
I think we're entitled to raise the issue.
The folk who had a two year pay freeze in 2010, to pay for financial tomfoolery in the US?
The two aren't connected at all. The austerity program was a political decision to shrink the state. The Financial need was to increase spending to grow the economy after the crash, but that was decided to be less important. Plenty of reports showing that austerity increased the depth and duration of the recession and was the wrong economic policy. However, it was the *right* political policy for the Tories, who believe the state has to shrink no matter the cost.
On a brighter note it does appear that Sunak (sp?) has twigged that be can't cut his way out of this recession and the only viable strategy is to grow GDP to get out the hole. Hopefully this will win out over some of the hard line Tories who want to cut their way out of it....
The two aren’t connected at all
Ahem:
Mr Osborne said in 2010: ‘I know there are many dedicated public sector workers who work very hard and did not cause this recession – but they must share the burden as we pay to clean it up.’
I appreciate this was Tory politics, but they used the opportunity to do it.
Many in the public sector will also lose their jobs, many already are and plenty have been furloughed.
There is a myth that needs busting over public sector job security. The last 10 year's of austerity shows many '000s of public sector jobs lost, pay freeze/cuts so why wouldn't they want a pay rise?
The big issue is we talk about the public sector and that is a very broad, perhaps pay increases should be targeted at the areas which are having the biggest impact on fighting the virus/helping society rather than just a blanket increase across the board?
The big question is why large private companies who still turn a profit will be laying off staff because the profit is not as big this year whilst continuing to pay bonuses and dividends, interesting how many of these companies were right at the front of the queue for government handouts.
Don't worry normal service will resume punish the public sector and low paid to the benefit of the wealthy.
The public sector has much better benefits in terms of sick leave, annual leave, pensions etc. Where I work we have an excellent training budget and are expected to use it. Flexible working and family friendly policies. And you pretty much have shoot somebody to get sacked (twice, cos the first shot could have been an accident) which means you have to work with numpties but they are slowly getting eradicated.
It's this bit that gets ignored.
There is a huge case for increasing the pay of the lowest paid part of the public sector (including the elements which are contracted out to the private sector where the pay is even worse), but what tends to happen is there is a flat rate percentage increase so everyone gets an increase. Your average doctor isn’t exactly badly paid, even when you factor in an element of danger money.
I also can’t work out why nurses and HCAs in A&E get paid the same as some of the quieter wards (No I’m not having a go at TJ just repeating what nurses I ride with have said).
Tbh I find it pretty incredible that folk in the public sector are conplaining about not getting a pay rise, when many in the private sector will lose their jobs at the end of this.
I'm not sure many of us are complaining about that, we're complaining at the same old, outdated public sector stereotypes.
And in the 16 years I've been in the civil service, I've twice had to change jobs as agencies and offices have closed, while some colleagues have lost their jobs as a result. Another round of office restructuring will see two more East Midlands offices close in October, with more redundancies as remote working was not offered as an alternative, even though those staff are currently working at home.
Many in the public sector will also lose their jobs, many already are and plenty have been furloughed.
Do you know who's lost their jobs in public sector as a result of this?
And public sector being put on furlough? That doesn't add up at all!