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Announced liquidation today.
Lots of history and heritage. Maybe they didn't move with the times (lots of long reach rim brake touring type bikes etc), but still very sad.
I had thought that the handmade steel renaissance was strong, but maybe not.....
The shop itself was always a bit old fashioned, but the frames were lovely, rode well, had real style and differentiation and it's hard to see something else taking its place.
No!!!
Classic clubman's cycle.
I always lusted after a Mercian but never bought one - always thought the top tube too long and the front end too low. Sob.
I saw the heading of the thread and thought that @StirlingCrispin would be commenting quickly.
Not good news, a lot of history and made some very nice bikes...as a teenager and riding out with the local CTC group, many were either on Mercian bikes or wanting to be on one.
That's sad - as a Derbyshire lad they were everywhere in the 70s/80s. A locals dream bike back then.
As you say though, trends change and they're probably stuck with the old farts Audax image.
I always lusted after a Mercian but never bought one
Isnt that always that always the problem though? We lust after and comment how great these types of bike look and the look at our modern geometry, electric shifting (and powered) machines and realised that the old bike would only get used once in a blue moon if at all and don't buy one.
Maybe they last too long? I have two steel tourers and a steel road bike. Youngest is around 12 years old. Not enough changing in the basic design to drive users to upgrade every few years.
Plus many people who might have bought them now ride carbon.
Very sad. My Dad has had Mercian frames for the last forty years but
Maybe they didn’t move with the times
they were simply making frames that nobody wants anymore.
Noooo, they were one of my Local-ish bike shops growing up,
I agree with the sentiment though, they didn't move with technology. I can't see any reason why they couldn't build all the same bikes with thru axles, disk brakes and electric shifting.
And like IRC said maybe there's a saturated market of frames like that with decades of 2nd hand frames. If I wanted one I could probably find one on ebay to refurbish. I wonder if someone will buy up the name.
Sad... but I must say, the times I went in their shop in Alveston, they didn't do themselves any favours.
And when I came to buy a 'once in a lifetime' level of spendy hand built steel framed disc braked gravel bike, their options were not there. Its the 2020s, I'm not buying a rim braked bike ! (I got a Shand with a Rohloff hub instead).
They had modernised frames but obviously too late. The old shop was an experience. Went in a few times but they never tried to sell me anything till I turned 40.
Loads of their bikes still going round here in Derbyshire. Even saw a couple in Copenhagen back at Easter.
I had a one as an 18th birthday present (1984). To replace a gas pipe frame I’d damaged inventing gravel riding. It was a standard geometry 531 bike from free wheel. I remember reading that the tubes were held in the lugs with nails during brazing. I was so amazed to see the ends of the nails the next time i had the bottom bracket out.
It’s sad that are going, but if they are basically selling the same bikes today perhaps not surprising
I was actually in the market for a steel gravel bike frameset with rim brakes, can't remember what put me off Mercian, might have been cost or just the 'traditional' construction, I'm not really a fan of lugs.
I went to Rourke instead, I think they had a similar custom offering.
Maybe the business just ran its course if people were retiring/their particular niche was dying out?
they were simply making frames that nobody wants anymore.
People assume that the product is the issue but there's people buying trad road bikes still. There's often other reasons for things like this.
Didnt they go bust, and were bought out around 20 years ago? Then they moved out of the shop on the A6 at Alvaston.
An employee buy out if I’m remembering it right. They were big Campag dealers at one time, then just stopped selling Campag.
I enjoyed nipping into their shop on London Road when I lived in Alvaston and admire the lug work and paint jobs of the bikes on display. I could never afford one but they were really really beautiful. Once the store shut you felt things were on the slide a bit. A fantastic framebuilder and a real shame for Derby and the wider cycling community. <!--more-->
That is a great shame. They made a really good job of stripping and then respaying my steel Kilauea 10 or 11 years ago. Although their paint range didn't include anything approaching the original 1997 Mustard Yellow, once I'd settled on a plain black, it's proved to be very hard wearing since. What to do in another 10 years when it needs done again?
Maybe they didn’t move with the times
You think. Ignoring the lugged steel frames that nobody wants (at £1500-£2200) the 'modern' Lugless steel frame is £3,000.
Not saying they are not worth it as probably beautifully made but the market for them must be tiny and that market is going to be fussy/know exactly what they want for their £2-3,000 frame.
Ignoring the lugged steel frames that nobody wants
IF I was to buy one I'd be aesthetically attracted to the lugged version....provided the lugs were cast for modern geometry and discs which I'm not sure is a thing.
A great shame that they couldn't find a way to make it work financially possible. In the modern niche world of low volume hipster frame building I'm not sure a heritage brand name helps or hinders.
I always hated working on them.
Their owners usually had unrealistic expectations of how their massively obscure ,pretty much unobtainable massively over worn ancient campag should operate.
I remember more than one* conversation about how Mercian (who we were not dealers for) should warranty their hub or bottom bracket because it cost a fortune..... Ok speak to Mercian then thanks.
* Given I worked on about 10 Mercians over the years to have that conversation more than once is notable.
Didnt they go bust, and were bought out around 20 years ago? Then they moved out of the shop on the A6 at Alvaston.
An employee buy out if I’m remembering it right. They were big Campag dealers at one time, then just stopped selling Campag.
Yes, think it was the shop or workshop manager, couple of the guys i rode with when i lived in the area worked there (one FT and one saturday lad) but that was late 90's. Last time i was in there, maybe 10 years ago, they were still selling the same stuff that they'd had 20 years previously. Some of it was possibly the same stock!
IF I was to buy one I’d be aesthetically attracted to the lugged version
Good, they have made a sale. They can put you down on the list with the other 4 people who want one.
I actually like them too and have a thing for old bikes but if I was spending £3,000 on a frame my options open up quite a bit and don't think I would end up with a Mercian.
My steel tourer is coming up for 30 years old and still going strong. I keep looking at replacing but i ve many happy memories so it's a keeper. For touring stuff it looks like spa and sjs are the go to places.
In this case it was probably isolated enough from t'interwebz that it has gone under on it's own, so to speak.
But I reckon the Chiggle fire sale will have put a hole in some other medium-large retailers' bank balances too. How many of us are now sat on 6-12 months of spares and won't be spending for a while?
People I know, who are spending £2000-3000 on this type of bike, are dropping that cash on period correct 80s Raleigh Bananas, Pinarellos etc. Not on the modern equivalent.
Pity to see them go though - being fairly local its one of those bikes I thought I would always buy at some point when I got older. Having said that though, the old boys in our club are on Scotts Addicts, Trek Madones etc...
Their owners usually had unrealistic expectations of how their massively obscure ,pretty much unobtainable massively over worn ancient campag should operate.
That was more just a thing with ancient Campag. Back in the 90's/early 00's, Campag was very desirable and still sold reasonably widely - we'd often get older blokes in with knackered Campag and they'd use phrases like "Shimano wears out, Campag wears in" and then try to order the little grommit screw for the widget which had broken but it didn't matter because "you can rebuild any part of Campag!" (often followed by a dig that you couldn't do that with Shimano). It was apparently some sort of law with owners of Campag, to wax lyrical about it to anyone who'd listen while making subtle digs at Shimano too.
This was technically true except it took 6 weeks to order the part, get it delivered and then do the work. Meanwhile they'd be phoning every week to ask about the work and tell us how wonderful Campag was...
Shame about Mercian but I agree with comments above; there's only so far a heritage name will get you.
Having said that though, the old boys in our club are on Scotts Addicts, Trek Madones etc…
I think this is starting to happen in the more experienced age groups.
My dad's a regular on Cycling UK club rides and as his riding group advances into their 70s there's more e bikes and carbon as they're not lugging three weeks worth of luggage through Europe anymore, they're doing 30-50 miles with a saddlebag and a couple of tea stops and they're liking the light bikes and engineered compliance.
From my experience of seeing them ridden, 90% of their potential customers have probably passed away by now...
Had a couple of frames(not Mercians)resprayed by them,they did a very nice job .
So many good frame builders to choose from these days,I imagine it's a tough market.
when did custom steel frames get so expensive? I did a Dave Yates framebuilding course around a decade ago and at the time he was building custom reynolds frames for just over a grand - £2500 for a frame is crazy
I think it's sad to see a UK frame building business like this gone. Genuinely, every time I read something like this it feels like the bike industry is losing something important. Yes classic style bikes are a niche now, no they don't score as highly on pure performance scales as modern bikes, I get why the demand is low. You can spend anywhere between £1.5k and £5k on a carbon frameset so the price itself isn't really what's going on.
I think partly what's sad (well, sad is the wrong word but anyway) is that road riding is still so pro-race influenced at club and culture level that people buy that last ounce of performance or efficiency via carbon bikes out of molds on the other side of the world, for riding that's mostly social. And I get that speed is what many people like, not saying that's wrong.
I suppose where I'm going with this is something about what the bike is beyond weight and stiffness and other measurables and something about how it came to be. Which means little to most people, I know. That's the bit I find .. not sad, maybe disappointing? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that I'd be happier to see a general culture in cycling and consumer habits where more riders wanting to buy a UK made frameset where other things than pure performance are the reasons for buying?
From experience of having a lugged Reynolds tubed frameset made to my spec, it's a beautiful thing. I like the fact that all but the lugs were made relatively locally by small companies. I really like the ride - it was made to be a benchmark for an older frame spec to compare the ride qualities to newer, stiffer bikes - it's not as quick in some situations as more a modern steel road frame and carbon fork I have but in many ways it has a nicer ride feel. It's just different. I ride it a lot because I like the way it feels and handles, not because it's making me any faster. But marketing 'a nice ride feel' is to try to sell a subjective claim, it's much harder than 'this bike is effectively 10W faster'. And isn't marketing is what keeps a brand going?
Maybe it's simply marketing and image missing the mark. I mean, just look at this bike.. It's beautiful. £1800 with 853 tubes. Only £1400 with 631. No way is that overpriced. I'd say it's excellent value.
benmanFree Member
People I know, who are spending £2000-3000 on this type of bike, are dropping that cash on period correct 80s Raleigh Bananas, Pinarellos etc. Not on the modern equivalent.
I'm not so sure.
If I'd had the market for a nice bike (I sort of am, but at a "Fairlight is a stretch" sort of budget) then I'd have loved a Mercian. The frames really are gorgeous in the flesh and there's a LOT of work put into them.
A Superlight in 835, but with thru axles, an internal rear brake, no other braze on's (electric only) would have been 👌
Sad… but I must say, the times I went in their shop in Alveston, they didn’t do themselves any favours.
I always got great service in the old there as a skint teenager 😂
I never had Camapg but you could turn up with a knickered shimano hub in bits and ask for the spares to rebuild it and someone would disappear into the workshop and come back ten minutes later with a ziplock bag of balls, cones seals etc which would cost about 50p and definitely wasn't worth their time to serve up!
Probably why:
a) I'd still like one of their frames.
b) they had to close the shop
Good, they have made a sale. They can put you down on the list with the other 4 people who want one.
It's not like Fairlight, Singular and others aren't managing to sell Far East made frames for ~£1500. Fairlight obviously went down the high performance route with custom tube shapes, and Singular are a bit cheaper with plain lugs. But like Jameso said, £1800 is not out of the ballpark and that is with beautiful hand cut lugs (the even more expensive frame, the lugs looked more like something you might see in a bespoke jewelry shop, not on a bike. Obviously £1800 is the starting price before you start weeping at the options list, but that's the nature of custom frames.
I actually like them too and have a thing for old bikes but if I was spending £3,000 on a frame my options open up quite a bit and don’t think I would end up with a Mercian.
It's a contradiction though. If you wanted something like that then what else out there is actually better for the price?
The trouble is I just don't think enough people want a classic rim braked bike made in the UK. It's a niche in a niche in a niche. I know Rouke could build one, but (and no disrespect to Rouke) it'd be functional.
Mercians USP was fettling the plain luggs until they looked like this.
[img]www.merciancycles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/bi-lam-seat-lug-2-scaled.jpg[/img]
[img]live.staticflickr.com/1766/41932000565_10ed32e292_b.jpg[/img]
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when did custom steel frames get so expensive?
When the arse dropped out of the market for steel frames.
I've (still) got custom steel from the 90's floating about. When i bought my first custom frame as a teenager, i could get custom geo for an extra 50 quid on a nice 653 lugged frame. (about 950 quid, inc headset and seatpin IIRC). I also had 15-20 custom builders to choose from, all offering widely similar frames at slightly different price points, all within easy striking distance of home. The same shops were also churning out standard geo frames by the dozen, standard lugs, standard tubes, *almost* production line style. The change to make it custom was relatively simple. Added an hour or two to the build time. Even when we went lugless, slightly more involved to do custom, but not hugely difficult.
Now those hundreds of stock geo frame are coming from china and made out of carbon, every single frame becomes custom, you've only got a dozen custom/steel builders in the whole country, those churning out hundreds don't exist any more. So there is no facility or capacity for simple, custom geo, steel frames.
I did a Dave Yates framebuilding course around a decade ago and at the time he was building custom reynolds frames for just over a grand – £2500 for a frame is crazy
Yup, my last custom retailed at £1250 and built up to a *very* light race bike that i raced for years. When i looked at replacing it in the late 00's, a *worse* frame would have been around 1900-2000.
I think it’s sad to see a UK frame building business like this gone. Genuinely, every time I read something like this it feels like the bike industry is losing something important.
Agreed, but there do seem to also be an increasing number of UK-based framebuilders making more modern bikes, so does it balance out?
Starling making (the front of) their full sus frames in Bristol spring to mind, as I owned one recently. Probably the most-respected steel FS maker globally.
And I assume there are still plenty enough old-school builders to meet the needs of the CTC crowd. I believe Steve Goff is still operating in a little unit near me in Skem, for example.
Also - without my glasses I thought for the second the thread title said "Merlin Cycles" and I was devastated.
Sad to see another one go but it's not entirely unexpected. Bob Jackson doesn't seem to have particularly done much since being bought from a similar predicament.
When I went to the first Bespoked it was full of super traditional "ain't broke, don't fix" old men bikes. A decade or so later the whole custom market is totally different.
I think there's a lot going on, covid, bike boom, bike bust etc but there's also a huge echo of the UK car market from the 70s... We lead the world, we dismiss foreign imports, we stubbornly refuse to modernise, we get swamped by cheaper and better products, the mass industry dies leaving a few mavericks doing their own thing.
There's lots of reasons why I should buy a fairly traditional steel bike if I think about it but if I had that kind of money to drop I'd probably go with a custom titanium or Ti Carbon mix for similar cash because I'd be buying with my heart not my head and dubious statistics on then back of wonder materials wins hands down.
And I assume there are still plenty enough old-school builders to meet the needs of the CTC crowd.
Heritage Craft put cycle frame making on their 'endangered list'. I think there was a singletrack article 'bout it.
FFS, image embedding is broken
www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/merciandk3-250.jpg
www.merciancycles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/bi-lam-seat-lug-2-scaled.jpg
live.staticflickr.com/1766/41932000565_10ed32e292_b.jpg
I think there’s a lot going on, covid, bike boom, bike bust etc but there’s also a huge echo of the UK car market from the 70s… We lead the world, we dismiss foreign imports, we stubbornly refuse to modernise, we get swamped by cheaper and better products, the mass industry dies leaving a few mavericks doing their own thing.
There’s lots of reasons why I should buy a fairly traditional steel bike if I think about it but if I had that kind of money to drop I’d probably go with a custom titanium or Ti Carbon mix for similar cash because I’d be buying with my heart not my head and dubious statistics on then back of wonder materials wins hands down.
Interesting analogy but BMH still make roughly the same number of MG and Mini shells as Ariel make Atoms 😂
From above...' A Superlight in 835, but with thru axles, an internal rear brake, no other braze on’s (electric only) would have been 👌'
Maybe. But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn't advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well...
I think that is the point.
You would really struggle to buy a modern Mercian which means you end up going somewhere else.
I agree with the sentiment though, they didn’t move with technology. I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t build all the same bikes with thru axles, disk brakes and electric shifting.
You reach a point though where the people that want to buy a Mercian (lugged steel frame, classic/traditional lines) are buying it because they [b]don't[/b] want modern kit - they're buying a sort of new version of the bike that they grew up with.
And Mercian are known for that classic traditional lugged look so to start building modern bikes with thru axles, disc mounts etc is against all their brand ethos, their frame building experience and their market.
The group of people that actually want a modern version of a classic is tiny anyway and certainly not getting any bigger. It's ultimately a pretty dead end path...
Maybe. But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn’t advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well…
But then it wouldn't be a Mercian.
I'm not sure if there's anything that would preclude them having some 12mm lugged dropouts made (3D printed?) The rest of my Wishlist was pretty much just to leave off the downtube bosses and BB cable guides.
and someone else will make it just as well…
I don't think you're quite appreciating what Merican did, they weren't just soldering tubes together to your preferred geometry. They were genuinely art.
Mercian
Those lugs are hand cut from blanks, they're not available like that from a catalogue in Tiawan for 50p per box of 100 more than plain ones. They're the result of someone sitting in a workshop for hours individually cutting and filing each one of them.
For comparison, Brian Rourke is a very well regarded framebuilder, and his frames may well ride indistinguishably, but :
Bear in mind that Trek started out making cheap tig welded steel frames. As did Specialized.
They both evolved to make what they make today.
Evolve or die seems to be the mantra is the mass market.
And if you are going to be niche rather than mass, make the niche big enough to support your business. I guess the niche for Mercian's products was just too small for them to make a living from.
They both evolved to make what they make today.
Which for the most part is cheap, TIG welded aluminium frames and cheap carbon. With fancy paint and a massive marketing budget...
Much like the rest of the market.
I agree with the sentiment though, they didn’t move with technology. I can’t see any reason why they couldn’t build all the same bikes with thru axles, disk brakes and electric shifting.
I'm going to agree with this (from my own point of view, not claiming to speak for everyone).
If someone liked the "clean classic lines" of a double diamond frame in "square" geometry but wanted and could afford to spend a fortune on it; why wouldn't they make a modern interpretation of it. A wireless and disc brake (with sensible rim depth) would look amazing. It would retain the steel feel for both comfort and cafe stop one upmanship, but be built with the best of modern componentry.
and for those who want a fully period correct 70's bike with tiny tyres, downtube shifters and cable birdsnests - the last 15-20 years has provided us with forums and ebay and so on so you can go and buy a genuine 70's bike that will be both "more authentic" and cheaper.
Sad to see another one go but it’s not entirely unexpected.
It can't have been unexpected for the owners or workers either. One would hope they'd seen it coming and baled out gracefully.
"Maybe. But did/would Mercian make such a thing? They certainly didn’t advertise it, and someone else will make it just as well…"
Erm yes, yes they did, if you asked. They didn't *advertise* at all really, but info on their models was on their website, and as a bespoke custom builder it's very much a case of you speak to them about what you want.
https://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/pro-lugless/
Most of my riding is on a (fairly plain) 853 steel frame with long-drop calipers and indexed down tube shifters. While my aero carbon bike with deep rims is great on chain gangs, fast rides, and for chasing Strava segments; people are really missing out if that kind of road bike is all they ride. We also buy too many cheap mass-produced things and replace them too often. I think it's a real shame if Mercian is gone, but also sadly par for our financialised deindustrialised commoditised times.
So they did produce some more modern bikes... Well that's kinda shut me down.
I guess if lack of sales was the issue then it's mainly a marketing thing because clearly quite a few people had no idea.
I'm just going to say that they don't appeal to me aesthetically, so I'd never even consider one. At age 65, I'd have thought I might their target demographic but I guess that I came to cycling too late in life for them to appeal in a "misty memory" way either.
At age 65, I’d have thought I might their target demographic but I guess that I came to cycling too late in life for them to appeal in a “misty memory” way either.
thats an interesting add on to my previous comment. someone fawning over a 70s/80s roadie was probably there and into them the first time around. The same aesthetic probably went back to the 60's, maybe 50's. so from the 1950's onwards theres been a consistent stream of people wanting and liking lugged "classic" road bikes.
Until recently, where the market is people who have wanted one for 3+ decades and somehow not yet bought one.
So they did produce some more modern bikes
Yes, as I was referring to on page 1 (the lugless frame)- it is £3,000 for the frameset though and that opens up a lot of other choices.
thats an interesting add on to my previous comment. someone fawning over a 70s/80s roadie was probably there and into them the first time around. The same aesthetic probably went back to the 60’s, maybe 50’s. so from the 1950’s onwards theres been a consistent stream of people wanting and liking lugged “classic” road bikes.
That's basically the summary of nostalgia. The reason there's still a significant following for 90's "retro" MTBs is because many of us on here now are the age where that's when we got into riding, we saw the exotica but could never afford it cos we were all skint teenagers. Now we're in our 40's / 50's and looking back on the things we wanted back then but could never own, we (well, some of us) now have the spare cash, time and desire to own them.
Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90's but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes. Although there's a very limited number of people who'll buy that sort of nostalgia brand new.
Ironic correction: Specialized started with lugged frames 🙂
Not sure about buying a new retro bike, but just renovated a 1982 steel roadie and can't believe how good it feels to ride.
Primative DuraAce brakes and downtube shifters take some getting used to though!
The reason there’s still a significant following for 90’s “retro” MTBs is because many of us on here now are the age where that’s when we got into riding,
Tick. Just bought a 1996 MTB a few weeks ago and loving it. There is no challenging riding where I live so a 90's rigid MTB is still good to ride and while I readily admit a modern MTB is better in a lot of ways I actually prefer the old geometry where position is similar to a road bike along with quicker feeling handling.
With road bikes I am not so sure about the differences. I ride track bikes more than road but they have still changed and my current bike is a 5.9kg Carbon framed, carbon rimmed, tubeless tyred bike and it feels no nicer to ride than the 1971 Mercian 531c track bike I had many years ago (the Mercian was actually more comfortable but then a carbon track bike is hardly aiming for comfort)
But as stated previously, while I actually like the Lugless/Lugless 44 I doubt I would ever buy one and would choose something else for that price.
Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90’s but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes.
Except for the sort of road riding that most enthusiasts/likely Mercian customers do, rim brakes and quill stems work far better than the rider is likely able to push them.
Old mountain bikes were shit. You'd have to go back to the era of unindexed downtube shifting and long drop centrepull brakes to find a road bike that bad. And most of the old guys i raced with in the 80's and 90's were all over STI and Ergopower as soon as it became reliable. So that's something most of them would probably retrofit those anyway.
Most of my steel roadies eventually broke or got sold. I've got one left, a very early 90s Columbus Max with masses of pedal overlap and no room for anything beyond 23mm tyres. It's heavy, quite harsh for a steel bike, silent, the brakes are shit especially in the wet, and it's every bit as stiff as a modern bike. It's almost worthless. I'm not that nostagic about it apart from the association with the races I did on it.
A bike I am nostalgic about is my lugged carbon 1997 Tour edition Look Once #284 on tubs. I still ride it as much as my current disc-braked tubeless Giant TCR. The Giant is noisy and harsh. Getting back on the Look I marvel at the comfort and silence. It handles great and goes up hill just as well as the Giant with a click rather than a clang when I change gear. It loses out on descent due the brakes and on the flat where the aero wheels on the Giant make a difference.
Old steel bikes, no ta.
I always used a down tube shifter for the front mech so I could use a double or triple chainset depending on the number and gradient of climbs
I had a 1983 Gios Aerodynamic until a few years ago - rode L’Eroica and RetroRonde on it a few times. Enough clearance to run 32mm file treaded tubs and loved the way the bike handled, but no thanks to the skinny, deep drop bars, awful brakes and absolute purgatory of Detto Pietro shoes, toe clips and straps. I used to drop into the Mercian shop when I was working nearby, about 20 years ago and it felt old-fashioned then and I imagine little changed since. There’s still a market for old style randonneur style steel frames with a modern twist - look at Velo Orange
Hands up who's been looking at Mercians on eBay?
This one is bonkers in a good way: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276471103906
The trouble with custom built lugged steel frames is the amount of hand labour that goes into them, so they're going to be expensive.
And then there's the simple fact that if you already own a quality lugged steel frame that you may have picked up secondhand for £100, then you're just a paintjob away from something as good as a brandnew one. And right now the Baby Boomers are dying off, so there's stashes of lugged frames coming on the market as their ignorant descendants haul them off to the dump, charity shop, or possibly eBay. (That's the fate I expect for my collection 🙂 )
period correct 80s Raleigh Bananas
clubmate is selling his Ti Raleigh as he’s not riding it. He even has the kit to match. 56 if anyone is interested.
Just had my TT frame refurbished by Argos Cycles. its made their insta feed. It wasn’t cheap. You can say what you want about modern bikes, but steel is just wonderful. Sad to see Mercian go, but I’m more of a Rourke rider.
Been reading through the comments on here and on other forums since Mercian's demise. There are some very interesting observations.
I think Mercian did build frames for modern components. However modern components do add challenges to traditional lugged construction. Thru axle dropouts are much more difficult to get in alignment and disc brakes mounts also require much more careful alignment.
Most of these challenges could be overcome with some clever design but as is often the case most framebuilders just select from the available parts. Most of these were either designed pre discs and thru axles or for tig welding. So when you adapt thru axle dropouts to a lugged steel frame they often look clunky and detract from the classic beauty of a lugged steel frame.
You can of course spend time adapting what is available to make it look neat. But that takes time and can be the difference between making money on a frame or not. Its hardly surprising that many steel framebuilders are choosing to tig weld more frames as it cuts the build time down and makes them more economical.
I have a vested interest in traditional lugged framebuilding and they only way I can see it surviving is if a builder invests money in developing some new parts which keep the aesthetic, keep the build time reasonable and embrace the latest components for those who want them. Otherwise you might as well buy a vintage frame and adapt is (very easily) to a QR and rim brake groupset.
Just my 2p worth.
Ellis Briggs
And then there’s the simple fact that if you already own a quality lugged steel frame that you may have picked up secondhand for £100,
True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later. It's built with modern components but I still have that wonderful ride quality.
Spent a fortune having it refurbished by Argos last year, maybe that's where the money is.
There's a short write-up on the BBC News website - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck7712w87lro
Those lugs are hand cut from blanks, they’re not available like that from a catalogue in Tiawan for 50p per box of 100 more than plain ones. They’re the result of someone sitting in a workshop for hours individually cutting and filing each one of them.
A lesson in "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". I have always thought Mercians (and anything with nervex lugs etc.) looked a bit gopping, and your example does naught to dissuade me
looked a bit gopping, and your example
If you look at the pictures of my TT frame, you’ll see nothing but smooth fillet braising. That’s not quick either as it takes a long time to smooth down the joints to carbon-like smoothness. None of those gopping alloy welds. Only Moots do welding properly.
Yeah loads of ways of stamping your own style on a bike frame.
I quite liked some of the "semi lugged" fillet brazed head tubes the likes of feather did.
At the end of the day, you have to make things that people want to buy.
True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later.
Have you cut the steerer yet?
True in my case. I picked up a 531 Thorn twenty years ago for £75 and am still riding it thousands of miles later. It’s built with modern components but I still have that wonderful ride quality.
Same, sort of, my 853 is 1997 vintage and currently built up with a mixture of 6800 and 8000 mechanical groupsets (was originally on 6500/Dura-ace). Rides much nicer than my carbon with Di2 and discs, even though it's probably slower. Has toe overlap and you can *just* get a 25 in there.
My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?
My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?
It can be riding fixed but you get used to it. On a road bike its just a non issue. The solution is more leaning.
I've two handbuilt steel bikes from the early 90's - a Terry Dolan built Ribble 653, and a totally custom built Frank Herety Columbus SLX. The market was starting to contract even in the 90's for custom built bikes, and I don't think Frank did more than a few hundred frames - mine is 141. He stopped as the fumes from braising affected his health. The SLX frame cost me £450 back in 1990 - same price as a Colnago (effectively the same tubes but I went UK built as I was putting brand new 8 speed Dura Ace on it - can't be having Shimano on a Colnago).
I'm surprised Mercian lasted so long TBH. A custom frame is something else to ride though, it's like a magic carpet.
It can be riding fixed but you get used to it.
I've done many a winter in my teens/early 20's on fixed, with guards too. And raced track, Saffron Lane, Quibel Park Harvey Hadden, Halesowen... Still never found it an issue!
My carbon has toe overlap too, has that ever been an issue for anyone? Other than deliberately making it a problem?
Some people seem to have more issues than others. My track bike obviously has considerable overlap, my fixie I can kick the guards, road (fairly aggressive if old-school racing geo) bike I scuff the tyres with my toes.
But only in slow speed, trying to do a U-turn on a single lane road sort of stuff. Day to day I've never had a problem, and my commute goes over a zig-zaged pedestrians bridge up over the motorway.
Thing is, most people will admit that modern MTBs are way better than anything we were riding around on in the 90’s but roadies seem a lot more (small c) conservative and will often hark back to the Good Old Days of simplicity and rim brakes.
Depends where you look, and there's also I think a tendency among roadies to buy more expensive bikes less often. The club I ride with (apparently, I just joined it based on geographical proximity) has a reputation for being fast / racing orientated, but on normal club rides there's a fairly even split of bikes from 1-10 years old (mines now the exception at 20 😂). At most only ~20% probably have a bike that looks "new" (i.e. might be a few year sold but still a current 12speed group set). But by the same token there's no Sora/Tiagra, most people are riding round on 105 or Ultegra.
Whereas off-road there's loads of Deore and GX, but you see far fewer 10+ year old bikes.
Geometry has moved with the times too. Racy bikes are now ~20mm longer than the old square frames (closer to what you'd previously have raced at a velodrome) which suits me even as a casual rider as I've got average length legs and my heights all in the torso. So I either needed a sloping frame which ended up looking a bit odd. Or have relatively little seatpost showing, especially with the trend for taller headtubes meaning a flat top tube left me looking like I'd borrowed my older bothers bike.
I fully appreciate that it's not for everyone,but I can say,hand on heart,that having a steel frame built to my spec,was one of the best things I have ever done.The whole process from start to finish was a lovely thing.Of all my bikes,it's still the one I ride the most.
I’ve done many a winter in my teens/early 20’s on fixed, with guards too. And raced track, Saffron Lane, Quibel Park Harvey Hadden, Halesowen… Still never found it an issue!
Yeah but the pedals going round mean that for some people particularly on small bikes there is a very real interface on very slow sharp turns. On a freewheel it's a non issue.