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So there are five houses, which are all accessed from a private road, with mutual responsibility held with each householder. Now I am new to the road, but one of the neighbours has been there for 40 years.
However one of the neighbours, who has lived there for around 20years has historically refused to pay their share of the road maintenance, which is about £500 a year per house hold. Some years it is much less, other years it can be more. It is the only vehicular/pedestrian access to each property.
So the neighbour collective have basically just let the one house off their payment and covered the costs between four. Now the way I see it is there are two options, either do nothing and let it be, but this isn't right! Or start some sort of formal (legal?) proceeding, which may cost more than the maintenance? And I would have no idea how to go about this, and even if a court did decide in favour how would the actual funds be paid to the others?
We have tried to talking to them and they are completely unreasonable dysfunctional couple. They claim they don't need to pay, but won't provide their deeds. And even if their deeds did suggest this, it is still the only access and has been for centuries! The other four neighbours get along great. Two of the houses are from the 1800's
Any advice?
Get a copy of their deeds from land registry and see what they say.
Do they own a vehicle?
Do they use the access way or do they hop over their back gate and use the public land behind for free?
If yes then I’d suggest they pony up like reasonable people.
Yes they own a vehicle. It is the only access. And its not public land behind it is privately owned, and not by them!
The problem being they don't pony/pay up like reasonable people, because they aren't.
Gate with a padlock at the end with 4 keys
At your next maintenance session install a toll booth.
We recently walked away from a house purchase for similar reasons. Albeit a septic tank as well as shared access driveway.
From what our solicitor said the deeds are not legally enforceable, ie they can (and clearly have) refuse to pay. No amount of paperwork waving will make any difference, unless you take them to court, in which case the judge will almost immediately find in your favour due to common law principle. There is a fair cost in going to court though....
Our issue was that the septic tank would have been under our garden, was not that far off needing replacing with a clargester (EA wont allow septic tanks to be straight up replaced in our area) and we didn’t fancy asking each of the other properties to reach behind their sofas and find a spare £4-5000. Cost us about £2000 in fees and surveys to find this out though...grumble grumble.....
I'd guess there's some sort of need for a community committee. Next one have the group discuss a gate or pillar put in place and a key made available on an annual basis on payment of fees. A majority vote will carry it or they could be reasonable.
If in Scotland, you could consider appointing a factor to look after the shared areas - bit of a nuclear option though.
Refuse to pay your share unless they pay theirs?
I'd just smash their house up until they got the message.
How long is the road and who carries out the maintenance? Maybe this came up years ago and they thought it was a ripoff for a quick strim and the occasional pothole repair? What work needs done on an annual basis?
go round and question them and video it, go to the local rag with the video with a funny pic of you on the road with a sad face.
What is the other neighbours attitude to the non payers? If you have enough dosh I'd probably just pay it...for an easy life....then blank those neighbours forever more, do absolutely sod all to assist them in any way even if they speak to you just turn your back...****ing tossers.
Blow strawberry and cream vape clouds through their letterbox on a daily basis, smoke them out. It's an atrocity.
Good God.
Shoes, wee, bombers...
Srsly, it seems the only option is to go full-Big-Hitter legal on their asses.
£500 a year per house
That seems a lot? £25,000 every 10 years? How long is the road? What do you all drive?
The only annual work that needs doing is the verge cutting, which was £30 per household, well for the four of us. The other repairs are as and when, but I budget around £500 a year. There's quite a few pot holes which need attention at the moment. Normal family cars, nothing fancy,no Audis on our road. Mixture of Skoda, Fords, and smaller fiesta type cars. Plus the posties van, and any other deliveries that are needed.
Where along the road are the non-payers in relation to the access? If you block them, do you block others as well?
Sounds like they don't want to be ripped off then. Can't blame them really.
I’d just smash their house up until they got the message
ay, course you would.
Show them there are no hard feelings by repairing the potholes right in front of their house yourself.
Tell them you need specialist equipment to do substantial repairs that will be long lasting and would they contribute to the hire of the digger ? If they do then fantatsic, dont hire a digger and divvy up the cash between you.
If they dont then hire a digger and dig a bloody great trench infront of their house ., get some flashing lights that illuminate their bedrroms as well.- always time for site saftey , then leave them there till they pay up
Don't lock them out - they will have a right of access presumably which isn't dependent on their obligation to pay. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Check deeds of their house and whoever owns the road to be sure of the situation.
Letter before action, then small claims court would be standard approach. If they are leasehold, mortgaged and in breach of the lease, threats to the lender can work quite well. Lenders don't like the risk of forfeiture.
Show them there are no hard feelings by repairing the potholes right in front of their house yourself.
I know STW is a place full of middle-class people with all the snobbery and petty prejudices that implies. However, we’ve hit a new low. Threatening people with a Fray Bentos pie. Even worse, a pie where the label’s been removed and it could be chicken & mushroom. Evil!
Why would each house have to contribute £500 per year?
2.5k of maintenance for a short bit of road ... Per year?
New guy moves in, wants £500/pa off people who've lived there 20 years, people who've lived there 40 years haven't bothered making a fuss over it because it's mostly only £30/pa hedge cutting, and not worth creating bad blood over.
Makes you wonder who the problem is eh?
I’ll cut the hedges and trim the verge for £25
I don’t want £500 pa, that is what I budget. However when the bill comes in I want each household to pay an equal share as per the deeds, and what is just the right thing to do. So four households pay and one doesn’t.
Some really good responses and some not so good ones, but thanks for the help.
I’ll cut the hedges and trim the verge for £25
That's a bargain. It cost the OP £120 last year!
Why are you budgeting £500 though, where did you get that figure from (as you're new to the road)? I wouldn't pay close to £500 myself but if what you actually mean is it's usually £50ish a year and the guy won't even cough up that but you're also slightly strange and budgeting 10x the normal amount 'just in case' that would make a bit more sense (to read).
Can you leave the verge uncut close to his property without affecting access for the rest of you?
Is this maintenance agreement formally documented anywhere or just neighbours deciding it makes sense to do it that way but one of them being a dick?
They might not be vocalising it but it seems pretty clear to me that they don't feel this maintenance is essential, and they don't want to pay for needless maintenance.
Even if they don't really think that they will certainly claim that if this went legal.
So it will all come down to you saying (say) the verge needed trimming 12 times a year and them saying it could be left to grow all summer, and you saying (say) 5 shallow potholes were too many and them saying 35 deep potholes are acceptable.
I suspect in practice if four of the neighbours want this road maintained to a standard they are happy with you'll all have to suck it up and pay 20pc over the odds for it. Which is what everyone seems to have decided anyway.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Bit rude of them not to say clearly "We think you're over doing it, but here's a token contribution anyway."</span>
Shared stuff is always a nightmare, but in this case the sole consequence is you have to pay a tad more and you're happy with the final outcome so I'd say relax and forget it.
Pay for hedge trimming, refuse to pay for anything else until there is a commitment from all concerned to share it equally.
I've got a verge in front of my house. it's not mine, but I cut the grass there when I do mine. Where's my £500?
So the£500 each is your estimate for what it will cost to repair the road?
Have you had a proper estimate from a company for the work?
Is it essential or just a nice to have?
The OP is David Beckham?
Letter before action, then small claims court would be standard approach. If they are leasehold, mortgaged and in breach of the lease, threats to the lender can work quite well. Lenders don’t like the risk of forfeiture
Who invited you along with all of your sensible suggestions? No need for that.
Do they have any pets you could hold for ransom?
Or start some sort of formal (legal?) proceeding, which may cost more than the maintenance? And I would have no idea how to go about this, and even if a court did decide in favour how would the actual funds be paid to the others?</span>
Unless there has been an ongoing dispute about the non payment then I doubt you could expect an outcome where money is claimed retrospectively - the neighbours, including the one that lived there before you - have gone ahead and instructed and paid for work without a contribution from the 5th neighbour. Even if they've done so grudgingly it was their decision.
The best result you can hope for is one where the 5th neighbour contributes from now on.
Now the way I see it is there are two options, either do nothing and let it be, but this isn’t right!
The thing is - that might be absolutely right. Do nothing - as in everyone does nothing. Don't plan or pay for maintenance. Either everyone contributes or non of you do. Don't resume any maintenance until you're all agreed on a way to do it.
Is it £500 plus VAT?
You say they won't show you their deeds. The same deeds which give them right to access.
Put a locked gate across the end and when they demand access ask to see proof.
If I was the OP I would be out there once a month with a strimmer and hedge cutter myself if it saved me £500 a year. If any of the neighbours want to lend a hand, great. If not, who cares I just saved myself half a new bike.
David Beckham wears socks & sandals?
I just saved myself half a new bike.
That would be £3,500 Shirley?
I think the OP hasn't explained himself too clearly but that £500 x 5 is typically what he reckons gets spent ON AVERAGE. The amount that actually gets spent varies from year to year and the actual cost is split 4 ways. What I'm not sure about is whether the OP is in charge of this spending or where he is getting these figures from given that he is new to the place (how new?).
I think the OP hasn’t explained himself too clearly but that £500 x 5 is typically what he reckons gets spent ON AVERAGE.
So far the only figure was £30 on strimming, so £470 on sundries/miscellaneous. Can't say I'd be too happy with that bill. I have a similar bit of private lane. I weed it a couple of times a year and tidy up any dumped rubbish. Another neighbour who is far more precious about his car buys a couple of bags of tarmac every now and then and fills the potholes. I don't think anybody else does anything. I think we would struggle to spend £500 let alone £2,500
Sounds like you are confusing your expectations of what is necessary for maintenance and what you and a couple of others would like to have done, hence it actually being ok for them not paying.
Long grass is going to add some biodiversity to your environment. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Drive a bit slower over the pot holes and maybe stick some dirt in there if they get too deep. That has just saved you all the maintenance costs.</span>
When I was in a similar situation (but just asking for £25 off each neighbour to pay towards the substrate and hire of a whacker plate - me & my father-in-law did all the work for free ourselves) one neighbour didn't pay. I just got on with life and accepted that not everyone is as nice as we'd like them to be.
To be fair, given what has subsequently happened to her (alcohol addiction, losing her house and two children who went to live with their respective fathers) she was clearly not in a good place. 🙁
You should definitely kick off as much as possible. Nothing ingratiates you to the neighbours more than coming along and challenging what everyone is happy with.
You should try and convert them to Hungarian Throat Singing too, by practicing it loudly outside their houses - you'll be the most popular man on the road, and will surely bring them back together after the feud you cause...
I just got on with life and accepted that not everyone is as nice as we’d like them to be.
We call that Unconditional Other Acceptance in the trade. Well done, it's hard to achieve.
1800's ......why not dress up like Bill Sykes get an ugly dog called bullseye and rap on their front door with a heavy cudgel demanding the money or you will enslave some orphans.
The Op's done one....afraid to come back and defend his 500 quid shenanigans?
The op said that they budgeted 500 for any maintenance but that hedge/verge trimming normally comes to 30-40ish.
As I read it no one is asking for the 500 just the smaller sum.
The choice to budget so far above the minimum is a bit odd but without seeing the road etc. it is not unreasonable to think that at some point resurfacing may need to be done so the op might be saving for this,
the gripe is that one of the 5 won’t pay the smaller amount each year. What happens when a larger amount is required?
Mate of mine lives in a shared private road. State of the road got so bad that they needed to get it sorted. A stretch of road about 200m in length and the cost was about £4000. They are all expecting to do some more work on it after 3 to 4 years. So budgeting £500 for an average year seems about right. Most years it will be a lot less, occasional years it will be more. And it is all well and good to say that they should do it themselves, but not everyone has the time, skills or inclination to do this.
Sounds like the neighbour who does not want to chip in is an idiot. He expects everyone else to pay for something that he uses. If he can't / won't produce the deeds then he can't claim right of access. So a gate seems like a good idea. However what will happen is that the other four houses will share the bill and get pissed off with the fifth house
How long is the road. 8f I was dumping as a collective 2500 quid on "repairs/maintenance" one year I wouldn't be expecting to pat a lot the next!
Perhaps right in front of their house is the appropriate place to store some large quantities of aggregates for an extended period of time, say, until you've saved up enough to hire someone to start resurfacing work, using said aggregates?
In all seriousness, some people are just dicks, plain and simple. We're in row of five houses on a private road and have a not so very different situation - when we need some work doing then only four of us will chip in somehow either time or money, and one will be generally obstructive, because, well... they're dicks.
They might not be vocalising it but it seems pretty clear to me that they don’t feel this maintenance is essential, and they don’t want to pay for needless maintenance.
Even if they don’t really think that they will certainly claim that if this went legal.
So it will all come down to you saying (say) the verge needed trimming 12 times a year and them saying it could be left to grow all summer, and you saying (say) 5 shallow potholes were too many and them saying 35 deep potholes are acceptable.
I suspect in practice if four of the neighbours want this road maintained to a standard they are happy with you’ll all have to suck it up and pay 20pc over the odds for it. Which is what everyone seems to have decided anyway.
<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Bit rude of them not to say clearly “We think you’re over doing it, but here’s a token contribution anyway.”</span>Shared stuff is always a nightmare, but in this case the sole consequence is you have to pay a tad more and you’re happy with the final outcome so I’d say relax and forget it.
Wasn't this mentioned before you moved in ?
If you asked about neighbours then the previous owners were legally obliged to tell you.
I have to say as well that different people are willing to pay different amounts for some "standard" and this seems like you and the other 4 have a different standard. Lots and lots of people wouldn't pay £500 for a bike... and I've paid well over that for a set of forks!
If you talk to your neighbours in the same way as you communicate on here then it’s little wonder there’s some conflict.
Starting sentences with ‘now’ and ‘so’ is pretty condenscending to the reader. Try a nicer approach. £2,500 for work you could all do yourselves? I cut the adjoining shared grass beside me and my elderly neighbours. A lorry load of chips every year then spend a Sunday with shovels and barrows, then all have a BBQ and a drink after?
Or for £2500 buy a wee Kuboto tractor with a grader? Use it for years! Flail mower attachment for the back?
If my new neighbour came round looking for £500 and to see my deeds I’m not sure how I would react.
We live on a private road.
We all own a share in a company that owns the road. We ask for £200 per year, nearly everyone pays. That covers resurfacing the road every seven years or so, repairs, maintaining trees and verges, and liability insurance. When a house sale happens we only release right of way across the road and share transfer in the company subject to the buyer agreeing to the £200 a year and signing up to agree to contribute to the road.
Previous people who haven't paid, aren't able to sell they're house as we won't give right of way (buyers solicitors advise against). Soon they come around, and make a back payment.
£500 x 5 = £2,500 per year?!
Maintenance on the tarmac drive to my Dad's house (~200 m) over the last 40 years has consisted of whenever the guys are resurfacing/repairing the adjoining public highway, asking them nicely to shove any leftover tarmac at the end of the day in any emerging potholes and give them a £20 note. Expenditure would work out at less than £10 a year.