[Closed] another kid mauled by a 'pet'

don simon earlier;

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Fantastic.

I agree with the 'don't let your dog run up at me' crowd. I walk our mutt - if I see another dog, he goes on the lead straight away - for a couple of reasons. I respect the other dog owner enough to ensure they are fully aware I have complete control of my dog as they have no knowledge of how my dog behaves. I mostly do it because I have no idea how their dog behaves. Usually, they think their dog running up at us is fine - no it isn't. I have no idea whether the dog is mental and they evidently have no control of the dog.
It always comes back to the people and not the dogs.

Hi Don Simon. A slap is a physical attack. Fact, no escaping it. I'm not twisting your words, read my comments. Although you are twisting mine, where do I mention murder?????!!!!
I agree unruly children are a pain in the a** although I would never slap / attack someone else's children, I would speak to the parents (admittedly that is often futile)
Also I wasn't having a go at dog's, I don't own one but many of my family and friends do. I found strange you seemed to be threatening to hospitalise people if they were to attack your dog yet you would slap a child for the same offence. If I misunderstood fair enough. And fair play to keeping your dog on a lead, irresposible owners don't help the general attitude towards dogs. I've never met a parent stupid enough to allow their child to play with a dangerous dog that is on a lead after being warned not to go near but hey we live in a strange world so I guess they exist. I guess based on your comments about children you are trolling or don't have any.

a slap is not a physical attack

I think you may need to do more research there.

Interesting insight into the psyche of a person who values dogs above people though.

Cancel that I just read the rest of the thread........

I found strange you seemed to be threatening to hospitalise people if they were to attack your dog yet you would slap a child for the same offence.

It was a retaliation to Zulu Queen wanting to kick dogs, all I said was that if s/he wanted to kick my dog, then I wouldn't hesitate in kicking him/her. Also that if his/her children bothered my dog I wouldn't hesitate in giving them a slap. As you now know my dog is kept on a lead and as a resposible owner I try to keep my dog away from irresponsible parents and children. 😆

Surely things have got a bit extreme if you can't control a child by slapping them. Is this a result of parents abusing and battering children?

Nice pic wwaswas. 😆

Not a question of valuing an animal over a child, great insight into someone who can jump to conclusions though.

How bizarre

Please explain and also explain why you think you can call me a ****t, I have to admit that you're slowly convincing me that your point of view is the correct one. 😆
Also there was a bit of trolling going on. 😉

Love the tag, I understand that as reaching some kind of iconic status on STW and therefore a compliment, thanks.

Hi Don Simon. A slap is a physical attack

Hmmm, thats got me thinking?

Is slapping a dog an offence?

Seems to happen a lot round here when dogs don't obey their owners?

Surely things have got a bit extreme if you can't control a child by slapping them

You's a bit think innit!

@ Don Simon

I just think you're scary. You laugh to yourself a lot.

Also there was a bit of trolling going on.

Mystified by the concept of "trolling". So .. someone posts something that is characteristic of what would be said by a ****t, someone else says "you're a ****t", and person 1 says "haha! I was trolling 😉 "

And that's clever because ...

On a forum, you are what you write, so if you write like a ****t, you are a ****t, even if you are a Nobel laureate in real life.

When I am walking the dog, I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him. He does not bark, bite, jump up or do anything that is out of order. I have also refined over the years a load of suitably reassuring and humourous lines to put people at ease. If someone looks unconmfortable then I call him back and he always comes. He is not an extraordinary dog, he has just been trained well.

As for other peoples dogs, if they are on a lead, my dog will be instructed not to go near them. If their dog is off the lead, then they can sort out the pecking order amongst themselves, because it looks like they trust their dogs too.

Licencing dogs will make no difference. Banning dogs in unjust. Is it so hard for us to deal with each dog individually based on the evidence presented at the time? If you suspect a dog is dangerous, don't leave your kids with it, have a word with the owner, have a word with the dog, is this all so hard? I appreciate some of you are scared of dogs but some other people are scared of foreigners. No reason to start banning stuff is it.

I often despair of people. Never met a dog I didn't like though...

Someone has to because everyone's a bit serious on here today, innit!

You's a bit think innit!

Why?

my dog is kept on a lead

No wonder he is pissed off.

I agree with the 'don't let your dog run up at me' crowd. I walk our mutt - if I see another dog, he goes on the lead straight away - for a couple of reasons. I respect the other dog owner enough to ensure they are fully aware I have complete control of my dog as they have no knowledge of how my dog behaves. I mostly do it because I have no idea how their dog behaves. Usually, they think their dog running up at us is fine - no it isn't. I have no idea whether the dog is mental and they evidently have no control of the dog.
It always comes back to the people and not the dogs.

Funny how much disagreement there is even amongst dog owners. Although I keep the dogs on a lead near danger points (roads etc) and at playgrounds etc, the rest of the time they are free to run. They’re dogs which were bred to run, and they need to for their mental as well as physical health. I simply haven’t had any negative feedback; no-one’s kicked my dogs, interposed themselved between the dog and their child......nothing.

It helps that my two are trailhounds (look like a cross between a foxhound and a pointer), who are utterly non-aggressive, don’t bark, and are only medium-sized, so they’re simply not seen as a threat. Nor do I have a no.1 cut, tattoos or piercings...not judging people, but this sort of person coupled with a staffy x would make me wary.

Thing is, that’s the norm in my park (and the woods nearby). People control their dogs well, but the vast majority (certainly 90%+) of dogs are not on the lead, and no-one seems to have a problem with it. Kids want to stroke my two (they’re pretty cute), and the dogs like the attention. As a responsible owner (mine are chipped/neutered/insured/trained) I’m confident that there’ll not be an incident involving my dogs. If I had any doubt, I’d stick them on a lead – the last thing I’d ever want is for any harm to come to anyone, firstly because dog bites are nasty, and secondly because it would almost certainly lead to the dog concerned being destroyed.

Mystified by the concept of "trolling".

Saying something controversial to get a reaction from others, a wind up. I made a comment directed at one member who made a comment about kicking dogs and retaliated, others decided to join in and the fun began. Happy?

If someone has an opinion which differs from yours it doesn't make them a ****t, or the compliment can simply be reversed, and that doesn't achieve anything, does it?
Is that how they would behave in a face to face conversation?

On a forum you are a person, you are a personality and you have a history, you have have opinions and attitudes the same as real life. If you want to make a judgement on who I am after reading one thread, who am I to criticise? Some people do come here to hide behind a name and say things they wouldn't have the courage to say face to face, I don't have that issue.

Am I a CHAV or AWESOME? Make up your minds?

Saying something controversial to get a reaction from others, a wind up.

What's the point ?

If someone has an opinion which differs from yours it doesn't make them a ****t, or the compliment can simply be reversed, and that doesn't achieve anything, does it?
Is that how they would behave in a face to face conversation?

No, but I was TROLLING - you see how clever I am ?!

Yes, your very clever.

When I am walking the dog, I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him.

Isn't it up to the person it's running up to to decide whether it's OK, not you? Surely it's common courtesy to keep your dog away from others if you don't know they want it there?

Isn't it up to the person it's running up to to decide whether it's OK, not you? Surely it's common courtesy to keep your dog away from others if you don't know they want it there?

Agreed and vice versa.

When I am walking the dog, I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him.

However, I don't know that. I have come across dozens more people with untrained dogs off the lead than those with trained dogs off lead. Odds are not in your favour there.

medium-sized, so they’re simply not seen as a threat. Nor do I have a no.1 cut, tattoos or piercings...not judging people, but this sort of person coupled with a staffy x would make me wary.

My dog is medium-sized, but a rottie. I have short-cropped hair and am a sturdy 6'7" tall. I guess you'd see me as a threat then. Funnily enough, I see uncontrolled dogs I don't know as potential threats. What you see depends on where you are standing. If anything kicks off, it will be my well-trained dog who is as the instigator just for being a rottie - so I have to ensure we're golden.

Isn't it up to the person it's running up to to decide whether it's OK, not you? Surely it's common courtesy to keep your dog away from others if you don't know they want it there?

Agreed and vice versa.

Well sort of- IMO if people want to introduce an animal into a public place then all the responsibilities associated with it are on the owner, not everybody else.

Isn't it up to the person it's running up to to decide whether it's OK, not you?

I see, does that mean that I am not allowed to speak to anyone unless they explicitly advise me that I can?

I kind of work on the basis that if people are out and about in the countryside amongst the cows and the crows, are not running at full tilt away from the offending pooch and do not have any sort of signage explicitly stating that they are not to be disturbed in their rural idyll, that they are fair game. Never had a complaint so far. I have in fact had to leave pubs in the past because I cannot talk to my companion for the number of rude, interfering, frankly stupid people that wish to come up and compliment me on the well natured handsomeness of my dog.

This kind of remionds me of an occasion when I was at my local dog walkers haunt, on top of a hill with perhaps a dozen other dogs + owners.

There was one bloke and his wife zipped up so tight it hurt complaining about all of the smelly, evil, antisocial dogs that they had to deal with just to take a walk in the country. They were massively outnumbered and none of the dogs were doing any harm. It was very vocally agreed amongst the dog owners that the dogs were far from the most antisocial things in the park at that time.

But if my dog is on its lead and I don't want attention from you or your children, you also have a responsibility. Like most things there are two sides, two arguments and two opinions.

sorry to change the thread a bit but Torminalis I'm sure I know you - you lived in a teepee for a while and your dog is a friendly brown terrier? (sorry can't remember breed or his name)

kind of work on the basis that if people are out and about in the countryside amongst the cows and the crows, are not running at full tilt away from the offending pooch and do not have any sort of signage explicitly stating that they are not to be disturbed in their rural idyll, that they are fair game.

So you have to wait until I'm running from a loose dog running at me before you'll do anything about it? Startling arrogance there. I don't want a dog I don't know running at me - simple. Experience has shown me that more dogs off-leash are out of control. Why you should think I am inviting such behaviour is beyond me.

I don't want attention from you or your children

What attention from children do you get? you keep refering to it but I am not sure what you mean.

nacho - that is correct. Except that he is Ginger. (Silas - Irish Terrier)

Do you know me in person or just through the blog?

I see, does that mean that I am not allowed to speak to anyone unless they explicitly advise me that I can?

It's hardly the same thing though is is? A better comparison might be me buzzing someone with my bike rather than giving them a polite wide berth- is it for me or them to say whether it's OK with them?

Tootall, I did say "not judging people". I'm sure you're a lovely chap and your rottie would bounce around quite happily with my hounds.

The point is that there are people out there (and let's face it, we've all seen them) who really shouldn't have a dog, and keep them as a hard-man status symbol. These people tend not to have a poodle/spaniel/labrador, and IME have a strongly developed sense of being an alpha male with a matching alpha dog. As such, I'd give people like this (or even those who look a bit like this) a wide berth. I'm happy to believe that I'm wrong in almost all cases, but better safe than sorry.

You're clearly aware of this negative image as well, hence the fact that you obviously have to over-compensate in terms of control, just to ensure the finger of suspicion can never be pointed at you or your rottie.

surfer - Member

I don't want attention from you or your children

What attention from children do you get? you keep refering to it but I am not sure what you mean.

That when children see a dog, they want to play/stroke with it.

Irish Terrier

Dad had one of those, mad as a bucket of frogs but a good dog. I have a Lakeland terrier, also mad but smaller!

Startling arrogance there

Riiight. If you read my previous post I explained exactly how it works...

I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him. He does not bark, bite, jump up or do anything that is out of order. I have also refined over the years a load of suitably reassuring and humourous lines to put people at ease. If someone looks unconmfortable then I call him back and he always comes.

To be honest, the dog takes very little interest in most other people beyond the doggy equivalent of an 'afternoon' and doff of the cap.

Would you complain if were to said hello as I strolled past you in the park? I agree this is not behaviour to be encouraged by all dog owners if their dogs are not very friendly but I have no qualms about it at all, and as I said, I have never had a complaint.

Torminalis - I know you in person, I have ridden with you and Silas, worked with you and socialised with you 🙂

It's hardly the same thing though is is?

Yeah, it is exactly the same thing, I think my dog is a lot more polite than many of the people I see when out walking. If he sees someone, he will not ignore them, he will approach to a not intimidating distance, see what the feedback is, if it is positive then he will say hello, if they appear fearful or negative he will withdraw (or be told to if needs be).

which is kind of exactly the same as I do nio the park. Nowt worse than ignorant bastards that blank you.

Torminalis - I know you in person, I have ridden with you and Silas, worked with you and socialised with you

That is so unfair making me look like the baddie in all of this. Who are you I demand? Nacho... hmnn...

oh, and can you tell these nay sayers what a cracking and charming dog and owner we are talking about here...

I think the way I look at this is, we all have a basic human right to go about our business unmolested.

Dog owners should be allowed to own dogs. Similarly, the dog-phobic should be allowed to live dog-free.

Cyclists should be allowed to ride along without fear of being jumped by dogs or having to ride through their droppings. Similarly, dog owners should be allowed to walk their dogs without bikes hooning past right next to them at something approaching the speed of sound.

Where does that leave us?

I think it comes down to control. If you're going to own an animal which by its nature interacts with the general public, it has to be under control. You might "know" it's friendly, but I don't. You might know it's not going to dart under my wheels, but I don't. You might think the sun shines out of its arse, but as a cyclist I'm all too intimately familiar with what actually comes out of there.

Likewise, I know I'm in control of the bike, but you don't. So I'll slow down, cover the brakes, make a noise if you haven't seen me, try not not make any erratic movements.

It's not hard. I'm riding towards you, call the dog to you. Or put it on a lead. Or give me some indication that things are ok, let me hear you say 'stay,' let me see a well-behaved dog. In return, I'll be a well-behaved cyclist. I'll slow right down, get off the path and give you plenty of room, give you a cheery 'good afternoon' or 'thank you' and a smile. But c'mon, meet me half way here; you control your dog, I'll control my bike, we'll both depart happy.

Instead, in my experience an owner's most common reaction to an approaching bike is either to ignore both the dog and me completely, or to wait until I'm just about to pass between them and then call the dog to them so that it darts across in front of me (which utterly bemuses me). Many owners are fine, of course, but they seem to be outnumbered by the apathetic.

It occurs to me that I could have replaced "dogs" or "cyclists" with "kids" in most of this post.

Kids like playing with animals. Depending on the temperament of the pet owner, this isn't always desireable. (That's not a typo, we've already heard from dog owners going "touch my dog and you'll get a slap" and "my dog plays with kids in the park, they both love it"). How do we reach a compromise here? Simple again, you're interacting with strangers. Being English, we find this difficult; we don't do it. You wouldn't normally walk up to a stranger in the street and go "hey, fancy playing foorball with us?" so why's it ok for a kid to approach a dog or a dog to approach a kid? Why's it ok for us to invade each other's space like that?

Well, it is, if the parent and owner establish this; we're back to control again. I'm not talking about written permission, it can be as simple as an exchanged smile to say 'my child is under control and safe to play with your dog' / 'my dog is under control and safe to play with your child'.

hey all, Silas is a great dog, surfer got it right and torminalis is a good guy, was always hospitable to me. I lost his mobile # so so haven't spokken to him for a long time. Torminalis - clue - I'm not devil dave and I live in Devon now!

NP!!! Ahhh, how are you?! 07515 331040. Anytime you like mate.

Well said Cougar.

Reading that back seems a bit anti-dog, which wasn't my intention. I like dogs, I just wish that some owners had a bit more common sense about them.

I once chopped the head off a poodle with my 203mm rotor of my gnarly Intense Downhill Mountain Bike. It tried to bite my 8 inches of travel right off and I wasn't going to stand for it. I tried to shout it down but it just tried to lap up my headset grease.

I gave the owner a piece of my mind and then pulled a massive endo in his face - he won't be letting his dog off the leash again, let me tell you.

Cougar - Couldn't agree more. If my dog was a git he would have a much shorter leash.

Tootall, I was intrigued by you saying that if you saw a dog of lead you put yours on. With mine in those circumstances I leave her off lead. In fact on some occasions if she's on the lead and I see a dog that looks like it might be a bit agro off lead I'll let her off too. She wont fight unless cornered and can out run most dogs easily, then I saw yours was a Rottie, is it because yours will get into scraps?

I will let him run up to anyone he chooses.

Unfortunately, that is where the arrogance lies. We have never met, yet you see fit to let your dog run up on me? I don't want that as the odds are the dog is not under control.

I have also refined over the years a load of suitably reassuring and humourous lines to put people at ease.

Yeah - and I've had many 'oh, he doesn't bite' and 'of course he is under control' followed by 'he's never done that before' and 'you scared him' and 'your dog started it'. Again - I've had too many light-hearted buffoons make jokes whilst their darling pooch was lunging at my ankle or dog. Being witty does not detract from a loose dog running up on me.

Cougar

Enough of that, you're ruining this thread by posting common sense 🙄

is it because yours will get into scraps?

No - it is because other dogs have had a go at him - and of those that do, the majority have been off-leash and out of control. The reputation of the rottie is such that I am aware of how others see him, so I do the decent thing and pop the leash on. If they then decide they want to meet the dog, they can initiate it and we properly introduce - not force it upon them. I have done that with every dog because my father taught me to respect others and do this - the rottie amplifies this so it makes sense.

When I am walking the dog, I will let him run up to anyone he chooses, because I trust him

And therein lies the problem. The perception someone has of a dog running up to them and someone else saying "Hello," as they pass is totally different. Some people have had bad experiences with dogs and whilst you may [b]think[/b] your dog will not act out of character you don't [b]know[/b] how the other person will react in the same way that they don't [b]know[/b]what your dog's intentions are.

Okay guys, I understand that you don't know how my dog will behave. In all fairness you do not know how I will behave. Or other drivers on the road, or milkmen, or cats, or anything in fact. We just have to go on experience.

I am not sure if you are suggesting I should stop my dog doing what he does naturally and very charmingly because you have had a bad experience of dogs.

I also stated above that if I sense that someone doesn't like dogs or is afraid that I will call him back. This very rarely happens because he has developed an instinct for this himself and is usually pretty spot on. Can we not take this on a case by case basis and just get on with it? Do you wish to impose your will on me because you are incapable of discerning one dog from another? What is the solution?

What is the solution?

Ignore the asshats and carry on as you are as it sounds fine to me. I'm about to do exactly that with these two 8)
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Is anybody else seeing the googlead on the right with the snarling dog? 😕

We all have basic human rights

That's a big part of the problem here - there are no such things as human rights which have an objective basis, however much the rhetoric which underpins them would like to suggest. They are in fact entirely subjective and socially negotiated - so if someone wants the right to be undisturbed by dogs, they need to make a case for it being socially good, rather than implying that the universe enshrines it as their right.

Just as an aside, I don't let my dogs run up to people, especially small kids - boisterous collies and toddlers don't mix very well.

I agree with what you are saying Cougar, except:

touch my dog and you'll get a slap

Not the same thing really?

As regards kicking a dog - it shouldn't have to come to that. A responsible dog owner will have his/her dog under control at all times. If one is off the lead and comes near my kids at pace (which does happen occasionally), then I reserve the right to kick it away. If the owner wants to kick me for doing so then that's a bridge I'm willing to cross.

Having said that, I actually like dogs (well behaved ones). Never want to own one however, because I don't have the lifestyle to look after them properly and hate dog poop. Also, if a dog owner gets fed up with my kids running around in restaurants, they would be correct to moan as that too is pretty unreasonable.

I'd like to think most people understand (macho posturing aside) that there is a difference between kicking/slapping a dog and a child...

Although these discussions are always heated, there isn't much between the arguments - sensible/considerate dog owners are rarely a menace. However, the completely irrational defence that "my dog could never be involved" in a situation like the OP mentions is ludicrous.

Do you wish to impose your will on me because you are incapable of discerning one dog from another?

Nobody wants to impose anything on you, they just don't want you imposing your dog on them. And whether they are 'capable' of discerning one dog from another is irrelevant- you shouldn't be putting them in that situation. Common courtesy.

A responsible dog owner will have his/her dog under control at all times.

impossible I would say, a responsible dog owner will keep the dog away from people but if something goes wrong for any reason they will have had the dog socialized to an extent they at least dont have to worry about an attack. My dog's now 18 months old, she's pretty good, comes when called most of the time and certainly doesnt jump up at people or run up to them (unless they call her) but I was only able to train her like this because I accepted that a few errors would occur when she's young like the time she ran up to the women walking along waving a stick about, she screamed and then tried to run off, baby Lurcher in hot pursuit of the stick still in her hand. Not good and I felt terrible but it was all a learning experience for the dog, not all people waving sticks want to play. It was also a case where a bit of knowledge from the stick waver would have been good for her. If your terrified of dogs even puppies dont walk around a park waving sticks about.

So you find it impossible to keep your dog under control at all times?

People shouldn't wave sticks in public lest they get attacked by a dog?

Not making a good case for responsible dog ownership there buddy.

So you find it impossible to keep your dog under control at all times?

is it possible to keep any living thing under control at all times?

People shouldn't wave sticks in public lest they get attacked by a dog?

is hardly what I wrote and she was a 15 week old puppy at the time.

not sure this running up to you should induce proper full on screaming.

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anagallis_arvensis - Member
Tootall, I was intrigued by you saying that if you saw a dog of lead you put yours on. With mine in those circumstances I leave her off lead. In fact on some occasions if she's on the lead and I see a dog that looks like it might be a bit agro off lead I'll let her off too. She wont fight unless cornered and can out run most dogs easily, then I saw yours was a Rottie, is it because yours will get into scraps?

I'm with Tootall on this one, Molly goes on her lead if she is approached or in the vicinity of any other dogs. I get fed up with her being pestered by the "oh, he's OK" brigade, fine, Molly is OK too, but she's a staffie, so if your dog pisses her off enough and she goes for it, she is likely to win, guess who will be seen to be the baddy? So rather than let a stupid situation like that occur I'd rather make sure it didn't. BTW, I do have a number 1 haircut to disguise some bloody horrible scars on my head, oddly having a lot of scars on the scalp doesn't look as bad with almost zero hair! Go-on, stereotype me!

I'm with Tootall on this one, Molly goes on her lead if she is approached or in the vicinity of any other dogs. I get fed up with her being pestered by the "oh, he's OK" brigade, fine, Molly is OK too, but she's a staffie, so if your dog pisses her off enough and she goes for it, she is likely to win, guess who will be seen to be the baddy?

makes sense, I suppose I've always had dogs that were runners rather than fighters...

Glad you are able to see it that way, though I might take umbrage at her being called a fighter! I'll accept the use of the phrase in it's historical sense for the breed, and for some of the breed nowadays, but not for Moll as an individual dog.

Rio - Member

"Interesting link - so 18 people have been killed by by cows in 8 years, and the main cause according to the article is provocation by dogs. In this particular case I'd say the problems are firstly the owners, then the dogs, and only finally the cows which are protecting their offspring.

c.f. 5 children killed in the last 5 years by dogs according to a pro-dog web site that seems to have some very sensible views on dog control."

Ask yourself the same question about what triggered the dog attacks. Some are unprovoked, many aren't. I know some people don't like it but the fact is that often being bitten by a dog is very much the equivalent of getting burned because you put your hand in a fire, just like being crushed by a cow is often the equivalent of doing something daft.

Elsewhere in the thread people have said "You don't know a dog will act in extremis". And that's absolutely true, and absolutely irrelevant. You don't muzzle all dogs because of how they might act in extremis, you just don't put them in that situation. Most humans will attack if provoked correctly, you don't treat them all as dangerous because of what they can be provoked into.

"to the idiot who say's Akita's have a decent temperamant."

That would be me. You obviously know ****-all about Akitas but it'd be nice if you at least bothered to find a link that supported your argument, did you even read it yourself before you posted it?

I might take umbrage at her being called a fighter!

what I mean is when push comes to shove a staffie wont run whereas my lurcher will and not much will catch her either!!

I agree with the cow thing being quite funny thing to look at because the vast majority of cows really arent that dangerous (bulls another matter of course) like most dogs. Follow a few simple rules and cows wont hurt you. Well apart from the stupid example that stood on my foot once

the fact is that often being bitten by a dog is very much the equivalent of getting burned because you put your hand in a fire,

I think the difference is that whereas the effect of the flame is simple, known, predictable and consistent, the behaviour of a dog is complex and unpredictable. Some gestures may trigger an attack from some dogs, others may not. Different dogs react differently. It is not reasonable to imagine that a stranger will know the personality of every dog they meet. You may know what spooks your dog. I do not. It represents to me a danger of being bitten which I am unable to judge very accurately. That makes me scared (which itself provokes dogs) and liable to take defensive action that you may not understand or agree with.

I would chop the heads off all dog owners and feed them to their dogs.

Then I'd go dogging on my mountain bicycle.

It is Friday night after all.

DrJ - Member

"I think the difference is that whereas the effect of the flame is simple, known, predictable and consistent, the behaviour of a dog is complex and unpredictable. Some gestures may trigger an attack from some dogs, others may not."

I'm not talking about gestures here, I've only know one kid personally who was attacked by a dog and tbh, if I'd been the dog I'd have bitten him too. Approaching an angry or territorial dog is a good way to get bit, failing to respond to a warning from a dog is another, and quite often with kids its rough handling or other daft behavior. Young kids don't know better of course but just like owners should look out for their dogs, parents should look out for their kids. I've only ever known one person to be badly bitten, it was a fairly young (10 year old) boy and if I'd been the dog, I'd have bitten him too.

Not to say that this is always the case of course- but people are quick to make excuses when it suits them while depicting other situations as black and white. Anyone got any idea how many of the fatal dog attacks was 100% "one sided"?

Ask yourself the same question about what triggered the dog attacks. Some are unprovoked, many aren't.

They're all provoked in some way; animals rarely act on a whim. However, it's unreasonable to expect everyone to know what provokes a particular dog to attack. On one memorable occasion I was accused by a dog owner of provoking his dog to bite me on the leg because I didn't stop running in its presence, and it always liked to attack runners (silly me for not realising that). Given that, it's perfectly reasonable for me to regard all dogs as dangerous animals.

At the end of the day it comes down to control; if you don't know what provokes your dog, don't take it out in public unless its on a lead. And I suspect very few dog owners know what would actually provoke their dog.

I'd gesture to the dog, then when it came up to me, just chop its head off with my gnarly hope mini mono rotor.

Then I'd learn to keep my dog/kids on a leash (yes, kids, on those daft harness things) and realise I'm not the centre of the earth, nor is my kid/dog and just learn to be courteous.

Can't we all just get along?

Can't we all just get along?

New to this forum?

Haha, yeah, how could you guess? It's all very serious isn't it? Plus no-one seems to like mountain bikes... 😆

I've no idea how you control the situation but any dog that looks like a rottweiler / ___ bull terrier should be confiscated on sight and killed regardless of the owner

Pr1ck. You should've stopped after "I've no idea" because you clearly haven't.

It's all very serious isn't it?

Only when discussing dogs, politics or tyres. 🙂

Anyone who looks like a Rottweiler or ___bull terrier should be chopped up and turned into dog food. In my opinion. IMHO to all those people who don't read words. Is it 'Humble' or 'Honest', I get confused easily?

What's the best Conservative tyre to run dogs over with?

Approaching an angry or territorial dog is a good way to get bit, failing to respond to a warning from a dog is another,

How am I supposed to recognise that? And if hte dog thinks that "its territory extends onto the public footpath?

and quite often with kids its rough handling or other daft behavior. Young kids don't know better of course but just like owners should look out for their dogs, parents should look out for their kids. I've only ever known one person to be badly bitten, it was a fairly young (10 year old) boy and if I'd been the dog, I'd have bitten him too.

So if a child is annoying, it's OK for them to be assaulted by a dog?

I had resisted the TJ-esque approach of quoting the law of the land - party because I assumed that dog owners would have at least an awareness. Quite a few on here evidently don't.....

[url= http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/Dogs/DG_180008 ]Govt website explaining dog control[/url]

[i]It is an offence to allow a dog of any type or breed to be dangerously out of control.

What is 'out of control'?

Your dog is dangerously out of control if it:

* injures a person, or
* behaves in a way that makes a person worried that it might injure them - even if it's the dog owner's own home or garden.

A court could judge that your dog is dangerously out of control if:

* it injures another person's animal
* the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

Anyone can report a dog and their owner to the police.

If you are found guilty of having a dog that's out of control you may face a fine of up to £1000 and/or imprisonment. You may also not be allowed to own a dog in the future.[/i]

So, whether your dog is 'out of control' isn't actually your perception - it is that of those around you. You will, of course, argue the law is an ass. However, it is the law and not really your call to make. Do the right thing and control your dog.

Plus no-one seems to like mountain bikes..

Oh yes! clearly new to the forum, mountain bike ffs!!!!???****!

I've done some reading since yesterday to try and understand, what I consider to have been a gross over reaction on the part of many, and the insults just confirm the inability to argue logically, regarding the slapping of I'm scared of Zulu's children.
Slapping IS an offence and IS assault, but a slap to give a child a warning is not the same as a slap to batter a child, OK. A slap which would leave a lasting mark or draw blood is different from a slap to shock the child. And I think that the Police would NOT act in the scenario I was talking about, so technically an offence, but not worth bothering with. A bit like doing 32mph in a 30mph zone and we all know how people like to break this law and get away without paying the fine or getting the points, or the how do I get away without paying this fine brigade??

I have also read that pushing someone is assault, rush hour on the Underground must be a lawyers dream. 🙄

As a child I received many slaps from teachers, as did others, NOT a problem.

I also know that teachers are restricted in what they can do with and to children. A falling child can not be caught or saved by a teacher just in case they touch the child inappropriately. In an attempt to stop a girl falling you try to catch her, one hand grabs her shoulder the other grabbs the breast area. One face plant and huge dental bill saved and one teacher put on the sex offenders list!!!

Young boy cuts himself on the upper thigh and is bleeding heavily, teacher must find an accomanying adult before applying dressing to act as a witness so as to avoid any accusations from the parents.

Thank you for saving my little Jeremy/Harriet, NO! How much can we get for suing the L.A.? YES! CRAZY!

And I think that has been demonstrated here, I said "slap" and you saw "batter" and court case money and I really don't think you can see a relationship between a failure in disciplining children and the social problems in the UK.

The End.

When I approach people I call my dog to heel, if there are small or noisy children waving sticks she goes on the lead. She doesn't chase joggers, cyclists, old people, fat people or any other people. As a dog owner I'm not fussed about being approached by friendly dogs, but appreciate many people don't want this and they are entitled not to be bothered, no matter how friendly.

As I have posted previously I used to be very frightened of dogs, but since having my own puppy it has transformed my life. Having a dog means you spend lot's of time exposed to other dogs and I now realise it was ignorance which caused my fear. On occasion I will be wary of a dog, but only when the dog is behaving aggresively. On approaching an unknown dog mine goes on the lead, this is to put others at ease and because I don't know how the other dog will behave. If the other dog is off lead and not showing any warning signs I will leave mine off lead. They will then say hello to each other, maybe play or maybe just ignore each other.

My dog is a mastiff cross and people are sometimes wary, but usually copmplement me on my beautiful dog. Given my dogs and maybe my own appearence I always make a point of smiling and saying hello to pretty much everyone we pass. It is amazing the difference it makes, but I often find myself chatting to little old ladies for ages when they realise I'm not a dog wielding mugger.

So.. keep your dogs under control, pick up after them, say hello to people, slow down on your bike when you pass, say thankyou and don't let you child poke my dog with a stick.

DrJ - Member

"So if a child is annoying, it's OK for them to be assaulted by a dog?"

Yeah, that's exactly what I said 🙄 If a child is allowed to run into traffic you don't blame the driver that hits them. If a child is allowed to mistreat or provoke a dog, you blame the dog. Apparently.

I wonder how many of the people who'd call for more bans and routine muzzling have used the words "nany state" in the past? To me it's all part of the psychosis of expecting perfect safety, and of parents who expect their kids to be protected from all harm whether they can be bothered to do that themselves or not, and who want the government to legislate away all risks for them. The incidence of serious dog attacks as we've shown up the page is low (despite absurd claims to the contrary, we never did heat more about the 250,000 dog bites a year) and the incidence of fatalities though tragic is negligible.