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Are the Leavers still being branded as racists? Jesus wept, get a grip, man up, stop crying and get on with it.
I voted leave and I am not a racist. I didn't think anything Dyson said was racist, he just had a problem with the way the EU is, as do the majority of the voters.
The UK has not collapsed because of the Brexit result and is unlikely to do so.
Do the remainers all imagine themselves to be enlightened beings with a greater understanding than anyone who voted leave?
We are better out of the failed socialist experiment.
Do the remainers all imagine themselves to be enlightened beings with a greater understanding than anyone who voted leave?
We are better out of the failed socialist experiment.
Well, you've convinced me.
Or, perhaps you've said nothing at all.
Again.
Do the remainers all imagine themselves to be enlightened beings with a greater understanding than anyone who voted leave?
I don't know what "they" believe of themselves, but many demonstrably [i]do [/i]have a greater understanding.
Like I said earlier, whatever beef you may have with the EU, "brexit" is like setting your car on fire because you have a puncture. As bad as the EU may or may not be, we're blatantly worse off out.
Didn't think Dyson was racist in that article, either disingenuous (lying?) or a bit thick if he believes you can't hire non-EU nationals now.
More Brexit lies. They just don't stop do they?
Anyway, I've decided going forward not to buy from Brexiteers where ever I can avoid it. I'm sure he won't notice.
If my car had a puncture it'd have a suitable repair to the tyre. £5 I think it is.
If I was in the EU I'd employ many people to manage, discuss this and then employ two tyre companies, one to replace and one to just standby and not do any work but a grant to keep them there. I'd then approach other tyre companies elsewhere and offer them incentives to join and give them a grant to get them upto date with their equipment and enable them to undercut the other established tyre repair companies on price due to grants and staffing costs.
Being in the Brexit you'd have no idea what to do, no where to buy tyres from as no one will trade with you, so you'll put the old tyres back onto get the tyres on before realising no one could fit them as your local tyres fitters had those nasty immigrants working for them whilst also claiming benefits so you sent them home.
Do you really think brexit means no-one will trade with you? Are you hiding in a bunker with your tinned food scared witless?
No. I mean what I wrote. What do you think those engineers do? Ok they don't manufacture vacuum cleaners but they still use test equipment, machinery, etc which is often UK made and by higher tech industries. Basically manufacturing that is far more appropriate to the UK than production lines. Also his support of educaction including a massive building in Bath, engineering centre in cambridge and the hiring of graduates means there's a lot of engineers out there who owe a chunk of their career to him.
Pretty aware what engineers do, having worked for engineering companies for the last 25 years. I see that despite what you're saying, you're actually agreeing that Dyson has focused on engineering at the expense of manufacturing. I don't think that harms his legacy in engineering at all. I just find it a shame, as a pp states, that he couldn't do both. IME, that was a choice he made and it wasn't the correct one.
Do you really think brexit means no-one will trade with you?
No. But what price will have to be paid getting trade deals from elsewhere? I think the quit squad are still in complete denial about the difficulty of achieving this, let alone the economic, political and legal complexities of seperating ourselves from the EU.
We have a good deal being in the EU, hence the reluctance to invoke article 50. Pragamtism, which us Brits are supposedly renowned for, will win out.
As for dyson, he only keeps the research and development side of the business here because its where he is. And as mentioned before, the UK Government controls immigration from Non-EU countries.
If I was in the EU I'd employ many people to manage, discuss this and then employ two tyre companies, one to replace and one to just standby and not do any work but a grant to keep them there. I'd then approach other tyre companies elsewhere and offer them incentives to join and give them a grant to get them upto date with their equipment and enable them to undercut the other established tyre repair companies on price due to grants and staffing costs.
And outside of the EU there wouldn't be any tyres to buy. Or in the Brexit dreamworld, there would but they'd be made in Dagenham by British labour and cost £700 each because it's difficult to grow rubber trees in Sidcup.
Oh Hora, I'm so disappointed. I always thought you were one of the intelligent ones.
No. But what price will have to be paid getting trade deals from elsewhere? I think the quit squad are still in complete denial about the difficulty of achieving this, let alone the economic, political and legal complexities of seperating ourselves from the EU.
We'd have to negotiate trade deals, and I do wonder what bargaining power we'd have when we manufacture the square root of **** all these days.
As a country we really do suffer from delusions of grandeur (apologies for the use of foreign). Too many people think we're stalwarts of the British Empire, when the reality is we're a grey rainy cul-de-sac.
we manufacture the square root of **** all these days.
"Contrary to common belief, UK manufacturing is strong with the UK currently the 11th largest manufacturing nation in the world. Manufacturing makes up 11% of UK GVA and 54% of UK exports and directly employs 2.6 million people."
Not reading the report, but that was the first hit from UK manufacturing into google.
Actually, that's a point in itself. We used to be known the world over as a nation of makers. Evidently we do ^^ but what do we actually manufacture and export these days? Anything of note?
(ok yes, I could Google...)
I am having a massive sense of deja vu about this thread,I'm sure it's been done before....
Or, perhaps you've said nothing at all.
Again.Ditto
We will be fine though. And I do not have a vision of us being stalwarts of the British Empire but we are not a grey dreary cul de sac either. What a downtrodden view you have. It's OK to state what you want and not be dictated to.
And yes, this has become that previous topic.
Can we let rip on Branson yet?
Anyway, post A50, when are you going back to Sodor TtTE?
Anyway, post A50, when are you going back to Sodor TtTE?
Could repeat that in "normal", please?
What exactly are you being dictated to about that you object to?
I am having a massive sense of deja vu about this thread,I'm sure it's been done before....
It has and its the same old names whining away at their sad little loss.
And lets not forget that even though he had a highly successful and profitable UK based production facility, he moved that production abroad for greed.
IIRC, Dyson wanted to greatly enlarge his current facility to produce more machines, but Malmesbury Council refused to allow him to do so, (in much the same way that BANES (Bath And North East Somerset) council made every excuse possible in refusing him permission to redevelop the old Stothert & Pitt factory on Lower Bristol Road into a high-level school for engineering, citing flooding issues, while allowing continued development of a new shopping centre and other sites all along the river, all of which would be just as affected by flooding), so he moved production to Malaysia, and carried on employing new engineers and designers in the old site; as I understand it he now employs far more people in Malmesbury than when he had his manufacturing facility there.
But don't let me stop anyone from using any spurious excuse to rant about someone who's a major employer in the UK.
🙄
Philxx - you were whinging from day one about about those on the wrong side of a very close vote exercising their right of free speech and you're still whinging now. On a half and half vote it's going to rage for years possibly as one MP said yesterday decades. Probably best to get used to it.
It has and its the same old names whining away at [s]their sad little loss[/s] [b]the country being ****ed[/b].
FTFY.
those on the wrong side of a very close vote exercising their right of free speech
Which, to be fair, is what the Brexiters have been doing for the last 40 years since the last one.
Agreed - and I accept their right to do so.
(mainly because I enjoy a good argument, preferably with an intelligent well informed wrong thinker)
(Actually you've reminded me my Bexiteer MP is refusing to respond to me now - ignoring his constituents!!! And he organises his surgeries for during the working day so only pensioners can see him. For the record he's Tory, lobby fodder to reactionary in voting, and anti-Europe though he's not clear why. I also regard him as a smug self-satisfied type, he seems anti-land-access, pro selling of Forestry Commission land - I'm looking forward to getting sat beside him at some dinner, bound to happen)
Philxx - you were whinging from day one about about those on the wrong side of a very close vote exercising their right of free speech and you're still whinging now. On a half and half vote it's going to rage for years possibly as one MP said yesterday decades. Probably best to get used to it.
Which side was I on?
Neither know nor care. It's the whinging I remember.
So you didn't bother reading the linked article then.
Eh?
that BANES (Bath And North East Somerset) council made every excuse possible in refusing him permission to redevelop the old Stothert & Pitt factory on Lower Bristol Road into a high-level school for engineering, citing flooding issues, while allowing continued development of a new shopping centre and other sites all along the river, all of which would be just as affected by flooding)
How dare he not propose a coffee shop,student accomdation or luxury flats(Bath is really lacking in all these).
I didn't realise they turned him down for something as good as that.
Funny thing is the new flood defences are pretty much landscaping for some other toss.
Neither
Exactly, now be proud of yourself but next time you wish to be a whiny b****** try not to dress it up as some bastion of free speech.
Pointing out continued bull by the quitters, caring about the opportunities of the future generations of this country - if you think that's whiny fair enough. I'm big enough not to be right bothered.
And let me be clear, I'll personally be ok whether we leave he EU or not. The opportunities for my children and their generation just took a severe dent though.
And do I think Britain will become some 3rd world nation on the back of this? No, it just won't be quite as good as it could be. (On the other hand civilisations rise and fall, so some day yes Britain, if it exists, will be a 3rd world nation- but that's a distance off.)
Am I angry about what happened? Yes but it's in the past - it's what we do about the future that matters. That's democracy - the last vote is all very interesting but it's the next one that matters - always.
So if that's whiny, fine. But don't try to make people feel they shouldn't express their views - though you are welcome to whine on about it of course.
Back on topic ...
Dyson appears to want free movement of labour and access to a free European market. That probably works for me. Though I think he's a prize fool in the way he's going about it.
Opportunities for kids in the future will be far greater than they would have been in we'd Remained and the UK will be much better off. Availability of employment, wages and housing within the UK will be much better after exit than would have been the case otehrwise. I accept for many Reminers they won't appreciate this for 5 or 10 years but its why I voted Leave.
IMO we won't have freedom of movement, we may have a visa system with an annual cap and restrictions on welfare. This is on the basis the EU agrees to fairly full access to the single market. It's clear the EU stance is no single market (ie full) acces with complete freedom of movement, so we will go for less than full with fallback to WTO. It's easy to relocate the brass plate "European" office for financial services or just sell through / white label via a "local" EU business partner. For example we have a deal with German bank (via their tax saving Irish Office?) to sell financial services into Europe as a quid-pro-quo for not imposing import tariffs on cars.
Remainers have to discredit Dyson because if a high successful enreneuer who has built a business from scratch in a global,success story and is a major Leave campaigner that's really inconvenient for them as he doesn't fit the steriotype they wish to promote for Leave voters
El-Bent if Leaving is a s difficult as you say (ie its an irreversable decsion) that should have been made crystal clear in 73 when we joined, in '75 Referendum and before Maastricht and Lisbon where signed. I'd be pretty certain if that had been the case we would have been out decades ago. You only have to read the '85 IN pamphlet to see the EU becames everything we where told it would not be
Availability of employment, wages and housing within the UK will be much better after exit than would have been the case otehrwise
The power of positive thinking… I hope for the sake of those in school at the moment that you're right.
I'd rather see a plan than a quote from a motivational poster though.
Did I just pour cold water on your already wet dream Jamba?
"Opportunities for kids in the future will be far greater than they would have been in we'd Remained and the UK will be much better off. Availability of employment, wages and housing within the UK will be much better after exit than would have been the case otehrwise. I accept for many Reminers they won't appreciate this for 5 or 10 years but its why I voted Leave."
Can you actually prove any of this?
Can you actually prove any of this?
If he can prove what's going to happen in the future, he's going to be very rich. Which is kind of the problem, the Leave campaign gained a lot of traction by [s]lying[/s] making wild speculations about what's going to happen. None of it actually [i]needs[/i] to be true you see, it just has to sound good.
A better question might be, have you got any grounds for believing any of this will play out as you say? When we don't know something in science, theories are formed based on the information we have available, likely outcomes extrapolated from base data.
For all the bold claims made by Leave of a British utopia and a nostalgic longing for a return to a past which never really existed in the first place, as far as I can tell it's baseless propaganda. Happy to be proved wrong of course, I may well have missed some gleaming insight or other that the Leavers are privy to.
I may well have missed some gleaming insight or other that the Leavers are privy to.
🙄 Sounds like you made the mistake of listening to experts.
For all the bold claims made by Leave of a British utopia and a nostalgic longing for a return to a past which never really existed in the first place, as far as I can tell it's baseless propaganda.
It will be a utopia for the few who want to be free from "EU regulation" or free from any rules and regs employment laws, ECHR etc, for that matter.
This after all is really what all this has only ever been about.
Happy to be proved wrong of course, I may well have missed some gleaming insight or other that the Leavers are privy to.
You only need to look at the chiefs of the great Britsh flounce off and their actions to realise there are no insights there...at all.
It will be a utopia for the few who want to be free from "EU regulation" or free from any rules and regs employment laws, ECHR etc, for that matter.This after all is really what all this has only ever been about.
That's the thing though. Those who cite freedom from "EU meddling" can't explain what that meddling is (or if they do they're hopelessly wrong, immigration for example; we don't take in asylum seekers because the EU force us to, we do it by our own volition because, well, it's the right thing to do).
Oh come on ,I'm sure the tories would have cleaned up our rivers,seas and air quality without any prompting from Europe.
That's the thing though. Those who cite freedom from "EU meddling" can't explain what that meddling is
Indeed +1million
What EXACTLY do we not have control of and how will that change?
Opportunities for kids in the future will be far greater than they would have been in we'd Remained and the UK will be much better off. Availability of employment, wages and housing within the UK will be much better after exit than would have been the case otehrwise. I accept for many Reminers they won't appreciate this for 5 or 10 years but its why I voted Leave.
Assertion, but not an argument, never mind proof.
But that sadly is the quitter way.
Anyway Jamba, do keep posting. It gives me a laugh every time you do. My suspicion is that you are actually Armando Inanucci having a bit of a troll. I enjoy it.
Dyson on Dyson... “I want to keep European free trade and free movement of people, but I don’t see that we need to be dominated and bullied by the Germans”
Basically he had a bit of a scrap with some German manufacturers, lost, and now wants to take his bat and ball home - no?
Of course he is right to want to keep European free trade and free movement of people - and it is quite understandable that no one wants to be bullied. However my suspicion (not that I've met him personally) is that he tried to bully the Germans and they weren't having it.
Or have I misinterpreted?
On the topic title- we should have forum rules in relation to libel. Mods could it be changed?