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[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37352312 ]James Dyson[/url]
Obviously a ****ing idiot. 🙄
Although I do think his stuff is overrated, apart from the hand dryers.
You obviously felt compelled to post this, why!
He got screwed over by some eu regulations, and he had a point, iirc something to do with energy efficiency of vacuum cleaners.
But the idea that free movement of people should end, but that he hopes people will still be able to travel and work in Europe is just contradictory incoherent stupidity.
And lets not forget that even though he had a highly successful and profitable UK based production facility, he moved that production abroad for greed.
Ignorant, perhaps but I see no evidence of racism or bigotry unless I missed the bit where he said no ****s or muzzies would be working for him.
Unless of course these are baseless accusations levelled simply because he has different political beliefs to you.
There's nothing the EU has done that's stopping him recruiting engineers from anywhere in the world.
Any restriction of movement of people into the UK from non-EU countries is entirely the UK governments decision.
Or just someone who shares different opinions to yourself? But carry on, keep throwing them insults around, that will win him over 🙄
If you felt that article 'proves' Dyson is a racist bigot then you hold very biggoted opinions yourself chum. And stop calling people racists you paedophile..
You obviously felt compelled to post this, why!
Because of the accusations of racism if you voted "leave".
Or are you going to pretend that has never happened? 🙄
Oh I remember the accusations, yes. What's your point Saville?
Hmm, not sure I agree with all he is saying but not sure how that makes him ignorant, racist or a bigot.
accusations?
Still don't get why you felt you needed to post this?
Are you related to him, have you got secret fellings for him?
He is posh, so probably a bit racist
Maybe a bit of ignorance on the impact to UK economy and resistance EU will have to allowing free trade without free movement of people but I don't see the racism or bigotry, what am i missing?
He isn't concerned about free movement of people or single market because he already runs a global business and employs mostly highly skilled workers who will still be mobile on a points based system.
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I'm confused
Was the OP being sarcy ? Or of is there something else he's said?
Dyson comes across as a bit of twit. But hardly racist, after all he moved his factory from the UK to Malaysia
He invented an expensive vacuum cleaner which doesn't seem to be used by cleaning professionals and fills tips. He invented effective hand driers which deafen people and drip puddles on the floor. He has made stylish fans and heaters which cost 5 times as much as the next best thing.
Doesn't mean he's racist. But self serving businessman is selfish isn't news.
Dyson is right; business with EU companies is often in small, unprofitable orders with lots of technical requirements that have to be met. Proper export business (my employer exports to over 100 counties around the world) is often in big, profitable orders with little by the way of technical complication.
Example:
Typical order to a manufacturer in the EU: lots of work and documentation for 10 kilos of product shipped. Result = loss.
Typical order to a manufacturer in Nigeria, Brazil, Russia, Turkey: 1,000 kilos to 18,000 kilos shipped. Result = happiness.
Gobochul is trying to convince himself he isn't racist by demonstrating that someone else who voted leave isn't a racist.
Spend years spouting on about British manufacturing and engineering. Then close down your UK factory and move it to the far East to save a bit of cash. I think we can understand why he might be in favour of leaving the EU.
Yes, the OP was attempting sarcasm.
As wwaswas said, there's no restriction on the hiring of nationals from other countries. We have Chinese, Malaysian, Japanese and Iranians working alongside Brits and Europeans. More complex? Yes. Prohibited? No.
So, he may well be, in this instance, ignorant.
Must have missed his Jim Davidson rant or did we get the wrong BBC link?
Hardly racist to have an opinion on leaving the EU, or are you one of the professionally offended I keep hearing about
Spend years spouting on about British manufacturing and engineering. Then close down your UK factory and move it to the far East to save a bit of cash. I think we can understand why he might be in favour of leaving the EU.
This.
Prices also continued to rise despite cheaper manufacturing.
Prices also continued to rise despite cheaper manufacturing.
Well, who hasn't got three hundred quid for a hairdryer? I've got two. 🙂
I have little time for James Dyson. He's not done anything revolutionary with his vacuum cleaners or hand driers (despite what he claims about the motor technology), and his main talent seems to be mass producing stuff in China and charging a 5000% markup on it in Europe.
Apparently his son is now into flogging "revolutionary" LED lighting to businesses at vastly inflated prices, and as far as I can tell the only thing he's done is whack a ruddy great aluminium heatsink on the back of the lamp and quintupled the price.
I agree with the OP - he's a racist, bigoted conman who's as undeserving as Philip Green and Mike Ashley of the so-called status that's afforded to them.
He was an arse when dealing with the Patent Office, he was convinced that he should receive special treatment. Got very hot and bothered when he didn't get it.
Calling him racist from that article is a stretch.
not this. Absolute tosh. He's done more for UK manufacturing than petty much anyone in recent years. He turfed out the production lines from his UK factory and replaced it with engineers and designers. Much better use of the space, currently 2500 professionals and about to double in size. He also sponsors loads of people in engineering education. He also pays his taxes. The numbers for that are staggering*Spend years spouting on about British manufacturing and engineering. Then close down your UK factory and move it to the far East to save a bit of cash.
*[i]Among the 54 billionaires resident in 2006 (the most up-to-date figures) a total of £14.7m was paid in tax. Mr Dyson alone paid £9m of that[/i]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-billionaires-who-do-pay-their-bills-including-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html
discovered or created the'Lifestyle' vacuum cleaner niche.
Don't forget the washing machines.
Def not an ignorant racist bigot he'll happily take anyones money 🙂
IMHO he whinges a bit too much - part of being a business man is working around issues and I think the taking the factory away was childish.
You don't want to look at his gaff though.
Among the 54 billionaires resident in 2006 (the most up-to-date figures) a total of £14.7m was paid in tax. Mr Dyson alone paid £9m of that
You're right - that is staggering. Genuine thanks for sharing. Nice to get something interesting and factual from the general morass of ill informed rubbish and unsupported opinion.
He's done more for UK manufacturing than petty much anyone in recent years.
I think you mean engineering. Unless by more you mean nothing, since they don't manufacture in the UK any more. From what I can see the number of production operatives he sacked is roughly equivalent to the number of engineers he has now. Yet he's stating that he can't employ enough engineers!
Nah, I don't think he's any of those things - he's just another arrogant type who thinks whatever is best for him, is best for everyone, because he's right and anyone who does anything else, is wrong. Or just as likely he'll try to sell the idea that the circumstances that suit him best, are best for everyone - he'd hardly alone in that.
Oh, you were being sarcastic.
How quaint.
No. I mean what I wrote. What do you think those engineers do? Ok they don't manufacture vacuum cleaners but they still use test equipment, machinery, etc which is often UK made and by higher tech industries. Basically manufacturing that is far more appropriate to the UK than production lines. Also his support of educaction including a massive building in Bath, engineering centre in cambridge and the hiring of graduates means there's a lot of engineers out there who owe a chunk of their career to him.I think you mean engineering. Unless by more you mean nothing, since they don't manufacture in the UK any more
Post edited on realisation of OP's sarcasm.
It's amazing how he couldn't manage to manufacture in the UK/ EU yet Miele continue to make better, cheaper vacuum cleaners, in Germany.
He got screwed over by some eu regulations, and he had a point, iirc something to do with energy efficiency of vacuum cleaners.
Because saving energy is getting screwed over, why?
Among the 54 billionaires resident in 2006 (the most up-to-date figures) a total of £14.7m was paid in tax. Mr Dyson alone paid £9m of that
His net worth is £5 billion, up from £3 billion two years ago. So on £2 billion of increased wealth he's paid a tax rate of ~1%.
Feel the value. (Quick and dirty maffs, but I bet he's not paying roughly 35% like most people).
discovered or created the'Lifestyle' vacuum cleaner niche.
sounds like most bike manufacturers 🙂
It's amazing how he couldn't manage to manufacture in the UK/ EU yet Miele continue to make better, cheaper vacuum cleaners, in Germany
This.
Why do people feel the need to defend him - he could've done a lot more for UK manufacturing. I assume when we've left EU he will be bringing his workforce back over here because it will all be so great.
The quote above stands, and like you say better and cheaper.
Then close down your UK factory and move it to the far East to save a bit of cash
I'm sure he made that decision unilaterally 🙄 and completely bypassed the board of directors, shareholders who would think they might want a return eventually.
Because saving energy is getting screwed over, why?
iirc the way power was measured did not actually relate to energy used. ie he claimed his design produced more power at a lower energy usage than his competitors.
His net worth is £5 billion, up from £3 billion two years ago. So on £2 billion of increased wealth he's paid a tax rate of ~1%.Feel the value. (Quick and dirty maffs, but I bet he's not paying roughly 35% like most people).
How much did he make in 2006?
Like all leavers doesn't mean he's a racist or bigot but like all he quotes something that's a lie. In his case about the engineers not being allowed due to EU regulations.
As I said he's probably done more than anybody in recent years for UK manufacturing. He's done that by supporting UK engineering graduates and undergraduates. Huge support for students in bath, bristol, Cambridge and Brunel. Loads of student engineering prizes and bursaries nationwide, support for patent applications. Bigger picture, long term stuff.Why do people feel the need to defend him - he could've done a lot more for UK manufacturing
Why do people feel the need to defend him - he could've done a lot more for UK manufacturing
Because maybe it's not his job to do more, his job is to make a profit ,
He has done well from the air filter off a tiger tank! (though it originated from filtering dust from grain silos) 😕
I'm sure he made that decision unilaterally and completely bypassed the board of directors, shareholders who would think they might want a return eventually.
It's a private family-owned company.
iirc the way power was measured did not actually relate to energy used. ie he claimed his design produced more power at a lower energy usage than his competitors.
Watts different about the energy he used?
Watts different about the energy he used?
Half an hour using a 1000w hoover or an hour using a 500w hoover.
Which would you prefer?
It's a private family-owned company.
your correct , that I never knew
Which would you prefer?
That's my whole point. If he fell within the regs, he didn't have a problem, and just the same as everyone was screwed too. Why using less energy becomes a single manufacturer being screwed is incorrect.
That's my whole point. If he fell within the regs, he didn't have a problem, and just the same as everyone was screwed too. Why using less energy becomes a single manufacturer being screwed is incorrect.
So you didn't bother reading the linked article then.
Personally, I love our hand-held rechargeable Dyson vacuum cleaner; it's just so easy to get out and do a quick 10-minute hoover. I actually don't mind doing it now, whereas I'd previously had to be forced/bullied/bribed/blackmailed into doing it. The more powerful upright Dyson my wife insists on keeping rarely comes out, and the Henry lives in the cellar/workshop, and whilst very powerful, is a downright cumbersome beast to use round all the furniture etc.
"Example:Typical order to a manufacturer in the EU: lots of work and documentation for 10 kilos of product shipped. Result = loss.
Typical order to a manufacturer in Nigeria, Brazil, Russia, Turkey: 1,000 kilos to 18,000 kilos shipped. Result = happiness."
Yeah, let's not worry about human rights, inequality, environmental concerns, facilitating nasty corporations, as long as we can have cheap stuff, eh?
Half an hour using a 1000w hoover or an hour using a 500w hoover.Which would you prefer?
A Miele.
nickjb - MemberAs I said he's probably done more than anybody in recent years for UK manufacturing. He's done that by supporting UK engineering graduates and undergraduates. Huge support for students in bath, bristol, Cambridge and Brunel. Loads of student engineering prizes and bursaries nationwide, support for patent applications. Bigger picture, long term stuff.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST
Jaguar Land Rover have done substantially more and are still manufacturing in the UK as are BMW Mini, Airbus, BAE systems, Rolls Royce, Alstom and countless others.
Oh and for balance, Miele manufacture in Germany, the Czech Republic, Hungary and China.
Dyson is a highly successful manufacturing entrepreneur. The only really successful one in the UK in the last 20 years I would say. As someone with a global business he saw how the EU acts like a straightjacket, it is about protectionism.
As the OP was pointing out the Remain camp tried to intimidate Leavers by branding them racists, they had no otherreal arguments as the EU is either deeply flawed (optimistic stance) or totally dysfunctional. As such all they where left with was insults.
Junker spoke today and once again an EU Army has come to the fore, a parrell structure to NATO as the US cannot be trusted. More madness.
Where do the engineers in those companies from? I'll be willing to bet a lot have had support from Dyson somewhere in their career. I know that is true for some of the Bristol based companies you list. Also are many of those UK companies? A bit of manufacturing but the big money leaves the country.Jaguar Land Rover have done substantially more and are still manufacturing in the UK as are BMW Mini, Airbus, BAE systems, Rolls Royce, Alstom and countless others.
A bit of manufacturing but the big money leaves the country.
Isn't the point that these are global companies manufacturing successfully within the UK? It does rather undermine Dyson's arguments about costs and bureaucracy.
Where do the engineers in those companies from? I'll be willing to bet a lot have had support from Dyson somewhere in their career. I
All of the above companies have larger and more established Graduate Training programs than do Dyson. They also support degree courses all over the country, providing support and industrially linked research projects for BEng and MEng programs. They also have a more exciting product portfolio. Dyson have a larger starting salary for a reason.
Largely high tech companies, using skilled, trained workforce. The training of these sort of people he supports personally and through the Dsyon foundationIsn't the point that these are global companies manufacturing successfully within the UK?
Can't say I agree with him on that point especially but its hard to argue that the costs for low skilled manufacture isn't cheaper overseasIt does rather undermine Dyson's arguments about costs and bureaucracy.
Largely high tech companies, using skilled, trained workforce. The training of these sort of people he supports personally and through the Dsyon foundation
It's a mix, surely? We have a substantial car production sector, for example, which is going to have all kinds of roles.
Can't say I agree with him on that point especially but its hard to argue that the costs for low skilled manufacture isn't cheaper overseas
I don't disagree, but note that plenty of consumer goods manufacturers are able to operate successfully within the EU. I'd have more time for him if he was honest enough to admit that he moved production because it increased his profit margin.
"As the OP was pointing out the Remain camp tried to intimidate Leavers by branding them racists"
Which many of them actually are. Or at the least, ****ing ignorant selfish ****s.
Had most of those voting Leave actually understood the full implications of Brexit on themselves personally, they wouldn't have done so. Whilst there may have been one or two reasonable arguments for Leave, the vast majority of proponents were/are grossly ignorant of this, and succumbed to emotive xenophobic propaganda. A lot of turkeys voted for Christmas.
"I would say"
You'd say a lot of things Jamba. Not many of them would make much sense.
As I said he's probably done more than anybody in recent years for UK manufacturing. He's done that by supporting UK engineering graduates and undergraduates.
The employment of homegrown graduates while laudable is but a small section of the overall population.
I suspect that once he gets to cherry-pick the cream of Indian, Chinese and other Asian engineering graduates the support of home-grown talent will go the same way as the production facilities.
His net worth is £5 billion, up from £3 billion two years ago. So on £2 billion of increased wealth he's paid a tax rate of ~1%.
My house has gone up in value by £100k in the past few years. I've not paid a penny tax on that 'increase'. If value of company assets has risen there is no reason he should have had to pay taxes so 1% isn't potentially 'bad' per se.
Yes, if that was all he did it would indeed be a pretty small contribution. Luckily it isn'tThe employment of homegrown graduates while laudable is but a small section of the overall population.
Among the 54 billionaires resident in 2006 (the most up-to-date figures) a total of £14.7m was paid in tax. Mr Dyson alone paid £9m of that
His net worth is £5 billion, up from £3 billion two years ago. So on £2 billion of increased wealth he's paid a tax rate of ~1%.Feel the value. (Quick and dirty maffs, but I bet he's not paying roughly 35% like most people).
Slightly odd maffs to be doing for a couple of reasons:
1) Hard to see the relevance or connection between his increase in wealth over the last two years and the amount of tax he paid in 2006
2)Increase in wealth and income are not (necessarily) the same thing - your point assumes that he received £2bn income. If the shares he holds in Dyson and any property he owns increased in value then his wealth (net worth) does, but there's no tax until he cashes it in (sells the shares / property, incurs capital gains tax liability). I'm sure there's plenty of people here with homes that have increased in value over time, but no one's had a tax bill on the back of it..
they had no otherreal arguments as the EU is either deeply flawed (optimistic stance) or totally dysfunctional.
By that logic, my car had a puncture this morning, so I set it on fire.
Doesnt he use offshore trusts in taxhavens including Malta and the Channel islands?
no doubt its all legal tho
He got screwed over by some eu regulations, and he had a point, iirc something to do with energy efficiency of vacuum cleaners.Because saving energy is getting screwed over, why?
According to a [i]truly thrilling[/i] trade magazine article James Dyson complained that the EU tests for vacuum cleaner energy efficiency were unfair and prejudiced against his companies machines in particular.
He reckoned that because Dyson vacuums don't lose suction as they fill with dirt that all the machines with conventional bags should be tested half full to give more accurate results.
He did actually go a bit further and accuse "the Germans" of trying to get back at Britain for "the war". That's a better basis for accusing him of bigotry than his views on the single market.
I will try to dig out the magazine.
I don't think he's a very nice person. He has created a bit of a cult of personality at Dyson, and I think that actual, usable innovation from his army of engineers is disappointing. I have a Dyson vacuum cleaner (my third) and it is worse in almost every way than the first DC02 I had way back. It has so many problems with its usability, where function has been sacrificed just to make it look a bit more like a spaceship. And I seem to recall his main justification for Brexit was that he'd be able to employ fewer expensive European (including British) engineers and more cheap Chinese ones. I'm not a fan (or even an Air Multiplier(TM)).
You don't know him, how come you think he's not a nice person. His main justification for brexit is the lack of UK and EU engineers and he wants to cast his net wider but can't. The EU is great if you want to employ cheap unskilled labour to dig up your cabbages - it's not so great if you want highly skilled engineers. Free movement of labour (a principle I'm in favour of) has in reality driven down wages. It's obviously and natural that if the EU creates barriers for his business then he's going to be against it. How do you reconcile a union of 27 nations with countries like Bulgaria and Romania on one end and Germany and the UK at the other - it was always going to be a race to the bottom. At least his opinions on the matter are based on his real experiences of the EU unlike the vast majority of other people on either side.
The only bigots around here are those who think that a British company can't employ people from other countries or set up factories in other countries around the world. Dyson's company is about design and engineering, not manufacturing. Manufacturing is a an annoyance for him and other countries can manufacture things better and cheaper than the UK.
The only bigots around here are those who think that a British company can't employ people from other countries or set up factories in other countries around the world.
Some of us think Dyson's stated reasons for not manufacturing in the UK don't stand up to scrutiny. That's all.
[i]His main justification for brexit is the lack of UK and EU engineers and he wants to cast his net wider but can't.[/i]
again, How is EU membership stopping him recruiting from further afield?
Migration from non-EU countries is solely controlled by the UK government.
wobbliscott - Member
You don't know him, how come you think he's not a nice person.
I do know a number of people who have worked for him, or with him in various capacities. So while I don't have direct experience, I have some knowledge. Do you have any evidence that he [i]is[/i] a nice person?
I am glad that he employs a lot of engineers. On the evidence of his product line I don't think he is making the best possible use of their skills. Outsourcing manufacturing to Malaysia was a cop-out, enabling him to profit from not only the cheap labour but also the considerably more lax HSE environment. As others have pointed out there are people who have proved that you can make manufacturing work in this country - it's a shame he didn't direct his alleged talents to making that work for him.
Yes, that sounds like a much better use of his time, money and resources. Much better than fannying around with engineering research centres, student training facilities and the like. A couple of hundred unskilled workers could have jobs right now!it's a shame he didn't direct his alleged talents to making that work for him.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, and I'm slightly surprised that you seem to think so. In any case it would be more likely to provide jobs for a few tens of rather highly skilled robots, and some highly skilled people to look after them.
My friend had to either attend to some flood or fire damage at Dyson's house.
He used a Henry Hoover and Dyson' saw him doing it.
Fight The Power.
I also went past his house on a boat and I called him a ****er. He wasn't within earshot or probably even at home.
Fight The Power
Junker spoke today and once again an EU Army has come to the fore, a parrell structure to NATO as the US…
Seems wise. The EU needs to prepare for a Trump win, or more likely a win by another "America First" candidate in 5 years time. To assume US protection for ever more, for all EU states, seems short sighted. The way things are going, I'm not sure they can even expect us to offer any protection long term either…
Back on topic. Given up on the clever, but fragile, Dyson for a no nonsense Nuvac.
OP you are of course a better businessman, entrepreneur and company leader than Dyson? You dobt think that hw has a better understanding of global commerce than you and politicians whose attention span is measured in soundbytes (all of them). I'm struggling to qualify Dyson to any point on your thread title.
Why do I have to suffer this, crap from the Guardian online and the odd Facebook poster?