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Why?
Under the dangerous dogs act.
flicker - cannot see it on the kennel club site now but I assure you that is the legal position. Obviously it only applies in a public place but thats the facts of the matter - you have an obligation to keep your dog under control at all times. If you cannot do this without having it on a lead then you must keep it on a lead
Its civil law and case law not statute
I can't be bothered looking it all up again now
I can’t be bothered looking it all up again now
Well you've convinced me!!
flicker – cannot see it on the kennel club site now but I assure you that is the legal position. Obviously it only applies in a public place but thats the facts of the matter – you have an obligation to keep your dog under control at all times. If you cannot do this without having it on a lead then you must keep it on a lead
Its civil law and case law not statute
I can’t be bothered looking it all up again now
We'll have to agree to disagree. I can find no reference other than to dogs being dangerously out of control and nothing that backs up you post.
Blue cross seem to cover everything, it's mostly common sense though, don't let your dog be a nuisance.
My wife was knocked over by a dog out of control (Scotland). The dog broke her leg badly resulting in a plate and screws to hold it all together and six months off work. No apology from the dog owner who vanished afterwards, and unfortunately case law in Scotland does not support any likelihood of getting compensation for loss of earnings etc... she can no longer go running or skiing and is generally limited by what someone elses dog did.
Under the dangerous dogs act.
Ah right so breed specific traits?
My dog can be a complete dick when out and about but unpredictably so. He is as likely to play with another dog as he is to pin it to the ground until it submits. He is also as likely to bark at a human as much as he is to ignore them. Based on this unpredictability we take him out with a muzzle and a lead, he hates the muzzle (in the process of getting a stupidly expensive bespoke one made to try and add comfort) so I take it off if we are in a place free of other dogs. It goes straight back on if there is another dog nearby off lead, they just can't be trusted. Just this evening I was out and had him muzzled and on the long lunge lead so I was completely in control. Little dog off lead starts messing with him, owner calls dog, dog doesn't respond so I am left trying to hold my lad back while the little thing messes around. I walk away, the little dog follows, and eventually the owner catches up and huffs and puffs about putting it on a lead?
Same place 2 days ago, I see a dog without owner bounding up a footpath next to the field we are in. Dog enters field and it is a Doberman the size of a small pony, fortunately it is female so less chance of a reaction from my fella but it won't leave us alone and no owner in sight. If it had been my wife walking Toby she would have been in tears, she is terrified of Dobermans after an incident years ago. Eventually an owner appears, no comment, no acknowledgment, walks into the adjacent field and eventually the Doberman follows.
Finally, while I am venting, I made a mistake one day as we had been playing fetch (with the dog not my wife) and he was carrying his ball in his mouth so I hadn't attempted to muzzle him. Came round a corner to be met with two dogs off lead. One of the dogs just ignore Toby which was fine, the other walked straight up to him and tried to take his ball out of his mouth. Needless to say Toby didn't like that and snapped, catching the Greyhound on the nose and cutting him. Apparently that was my fault because I had him on the lead. The other owner stated that if he was off the lead he wouldn't have reacted. WTF are you supposed to do? Idiots everywhere. To the OP, my wife sends sympathy vibes to your OH.
Wasn’t as well thought out as that from what I can tell. More akin to profiling. Those dogs look a bit shady and some of them are wrong uns so....
I’m simplifying but the act needs revisions. Responsible owners who know what the **** they are doing regardless of the breed. That’s what is needed. All dogs have potential to be dangerous, just like any other large domesticated mammals. I find it sad that innocent animals suffer due to humans being dicks.
All dogs have potential to be dangerous, just like any other large domesticated mammals.
True but some are much better at it than others.
My lurcher seems to have a general rule of thumb that if her head would fit in the other dogs mouth it isn't getting near her!!
on the long lunge lead so I was completely in control
Er, ok...
Was it on this when it but the other dog?
Er, ok…
Was it on this when it but the other dog?
No, short lead right next to my leg
True but some are much better at it than others
Some have potential to be better at it than others due to historic uses. Guard dogs and herd guardians being two prime examples. Managed correctly the vast majority are fine just like any other breed. It’s that people can’t be arsed to research and just buy a dog on looks.
Er, ok…
Was it on this when it but the other dog?
But even if it was on the lunge lead he would have been recalled back to me and not dancing around 10m away. did you decide to just choose the one point where I admitted an error in judgement?
(All I ( and the other non child) owners) want is for you to keep within the law by keeping your child under control at all times and that means it does not come up to me at all unless I invite it to do so.
It does NOT have to be on a lead IF its properly trained. I have only ever known one child so well trained. all others needed to be on a lead at all times because otherwise not under control.
to be under control the child MUST be withing eyesight at all times and recall immediately and reliably. If your child does not do this then it MUST be on a lead at all times
thats the law
Yeah but kids don’t tend to jump up or bite. Well mine do but they’re the exception that proves the rule. How many times in your life have you been bothered by a child in the same way that a dog might do? If you say one or more I’m going to accuse you of fibbing
Indisputable proof of the menace.
@funkmasterp totally agree that the Dangerous Dogs act isn't fit for purpose and totally open to abuse. Heard so many stories about "pit bull like" dogs facing death because someone who doesn't have a clue has decided they look dodgy so that's that.
It might not be the law but the new countryside code says dogs should be "under control and in sight".
@branwell that is horrendous. 🙁
I think the standard response to ‘They won’t hurt you’ is ‘maybe not but I’m gonna hurt you if you don’t get your mutts away from me’.
I've often thought that a good response would be to run at the dog owner shouting and screaming and then pretend to punch them.
When they, rightly terrified, complain about this you can respond with, 'I was just playing around, I'd never have actually hurt you.' 🙂
Yeah but kids don’t tend to jump up or bite.
Give it a couple of years and some of their peers will be down the shelter at the park off their nuts on Dragon Soup setting fire to wheelie bins stolen from OAPs then get lifted for trying to kick in the window of a local cafe.
But even if it was on the lunge lead he would have been recalled back to me and not dancing around 10m away. did you decide to just choose the one point where I admitted an error in judgement?
Sorry for that, its just long leads piss me off, got wrapped up in one attached to a Rottweiler with my son who was about 7 at the time after the dog on the long lead chased mine. Another time a dog chasing mine on a long lead left a nasty cut on my leg. Another caused my dog to do a somersault after it blocked an entire path...and that's all before we get onto problems with them if riding a bike...I am sure when used appropriately they are fine.
It might not be the law but the new countryside code says dogs should be “under control and in sight”.
Does it also mention not riding bikes on footpaths?
In Scotland there is a further category – under close control which applies around livestock which is defined as on a lead or at heel. Breech this one and the farmer has the right to shoot the dog
Nope, it does not mention at heel.
Breech this one and the farmer has the right to shoot the dog
I'm fairly confident farmers can only shoot dogs that are actually chasing livestock.
I never put my dog on a lead around cattle, sometimes she sneaks right round the field edge to get past them, I've literally been stood chatting to the farmer when she does this and they haven't mentioned shooting her.
In Scotland there is a further category – under close control which applies around livestock which is defined as on a lead or at heel. Breech this one and the farmer has the right to shoot the dog
This is very poorly worded. A farmer does not 'have the right' to shoot a dog for not being at heel or on a lead.
Does it also mention not riding bikes on footpaths?
No. But when I do that I do it in a way that causes minimal nuisance to other people. Ie go early or late so it's quieter, be more careful as people won't be expecting bikes, don't go when it's wet and likely to churn up the path, slow down and be extra friendly if I do see walkers, etc.
Not just barrel towards them and skid to a stop stop at the last minute then tell them to lighten up if they aren't impressed. Or crash into them then tell them I've never done that before and it's so out of character for me. Or steal their lunch if they're having a picnic. Or run my muddy tyres down their leg and say 'I'm just being friendly'.
Sorry for that, its just long leads piss me off
Yep. Those and extendables - pain in the arse.
It might not be the law but the new countryside code says dogs should be “under control and in sight”.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-countryside-code/the-countryside-code-advice-for-countryside-visitors
/blockquote>So the guidance is don't be a dick or let your dog be a dick, common sense and general courtesy then.
It makes for depressing reading that page, people shouldn't need any of that explaining to them. I'm not talking about the dog specific bit, I mean all of it 🙁
It makes for depressing reading that page, people shouldn’t need any of that explaining to them. I’m not talking about the dog specific bit, I mean all of it
We've all got blind spots about our behaviour and how it affects others but it seems like dogs and their behaviour is a pretty common one.
I know a few people who are generally good, sensible, responsible individuals but total muppets about their dog's behaviour, it's impacts and how to deal with it.
Yep. Those and extendables – pain in the arse.
Used properly they are a safe way to let a dog that can be reactive habe a good wander and a sniff. I would never use one anywhere that it could impact a rider or pedestrian. When we were training recall a few years ago my wife got caught with it round her legs and she had them whipped out from under her. I got one
leg wrapped up once and ended up with lovely welts. We learnt from this
experience 😂
You will be glad to know we have our first extendable lead arriving tomorrow..........
Those and extendables – pain in the arse.
All they achieve is teaching your dog how to pull..
Give it a couple of years and some of their peers will be down the shelter at the park off their nuts on Dragon Soup setting fire to wheelie bins stolen from OAPs then get lifted for trying to kick in the window of a local cafe.
Imagine the fury in here if dogs did that 😱 and WTF is Dragon Soup? Sounds like meth from your description
Dragon Soup is a 20% alcohol drink sold in 500ml cans with child friendly designs/colour on them 🙁
Edit, bitvof a pointless rant
mrlebowski
Free MemberThose and extendables – pain in the arse.
All they achieve is teaching your dog how to pull..
Karelian Bear Dog....not pulling on an extendable. Quite happily walks to heel when instructed but allows him 10m explore and sniff range. Recalls fine unless he picks up a deer (or bear) scent hence an extendable.
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Dragon Soup is a 20% alcohol drink sold in 500ml cans with child friendly designs/colour on them
7.5% ABV, apparently, not 20, but wholeheartedly agree with you on the colours - it's alcoholic Monster.
Oh, for simpler times...
Dragon Soup is a 20% alcohol drink
7.5% ABV, apparently, not 20
Singletrack poster in over exaggeration shocker. Who would have imagined that?
Singletrack poster in over exaggeration shocker. Who would have imagined that?
Aye 7.5% is plenty to send kids banzai ! 20% would be good and make them sleep 😉
Singletrack poster in over exaggeration shocker. Who would have imagined that?
Everyone ever. It’s law in Scotland and if you don’t follow it a farmer can legally shoot you.
Actually, they have a 15% drink
https://www.goldenacrewines.co.uk/product/dragon-soop-wild-dark-fruits-esq/
Just read the description for that Dragon Soop ESQ. Sounds terrible and seems to be the new alcopop for today’s yoof. No worse than what I drunk in my teens (Mad Dog 20/20, Barley Wine etc) and I don’t recall stealing pensioners bins and setting fire to bus shelters.
From ‘bloody uncontrollable dogs’ to ‘bloody kids’ in the same thread. Bravo STW, this is like being in somebody’s bitter grandads head!
Think less mad dog, more buckfast. I have it on good authority the caffeine mix is lethal.
No worse than what I drunk in my teens (Mad Dog 20/20, Barley Wine etc) and I don’t recall stealing pensioners bins and setting fire to bus shelters.
You didn't and nor did I but quite a few people did. Some ended up in fights others ended up all relaxed.
People, like dogs, are all different. Some see nothing wrong with their dogs behaviour, others hate it.
As an autistic person I can't deal with all sorts of things that 'normal' people don't even notice but we just have to get on with it and accept we are not all the same don't we.
it is also a vampire law so that explains why the government has never had to put it into UK law
Bloody unelected mythical creatures telling us what we can and can't do. Take back countrol !
Yeah, before they bleed us dry! Drexit
fully expect one of the mods to shut this down shortly.
He's an utter count, the one I mean 😉
It has become a rather high stakes thread.
Well vampires definitely don't like dogs/wolves unless What we do in the shadows was not based on reality?
What about dog soldiers?
What about dog soldiers?
What's your problem? He's only being friendly.
You can tell that’s in Scotland as the army are shooting it as it’s not at heel.
He’s an utter count, the one I mean
Not a fang?
What about dog soldiers?
We are going to need a bigger lead!
People, like dogs, are all different. Some see nothing wrong with their dogs behaviour, others hate it.
As an autistic person I can’t deal with all sorts of things that ‘normal’ people don’t even notice but we just have to get on with it and accept we are not all the same don’t we.
Have a plus one from me!
Is it just me or is a good part of this problem is that there are just too many dogs? Should the sale of dogs be restricted in some way? I regularly see people with 3,4 or even 5 dogs. What about a licence system? I freely admit to not being a dog fan, but I don't actively dislike them (we had them at home when I was a kid). I'm just a wee bit fed up of dog filth everywhere and dogs chasing me when I'm running or cycling. Not too unreasonable?
Jesus H Corbett, what a thread. It's a week old and it's taken me a week to read it.
Here's the answer: HUMANS TRUMP DOGS. That's it, end of thread.
"He won't bite / he's just being friendly / 99 percent of something I've just made up / people running around making them excitable / cross out dogs and put children / whatever the hell else narrative" - it's all irrelevant. Bottom line is that two legs > four legs.
It's not about a fear of being bitten and it's blinkered for owners and apologists to focus on that. Hell, it's a straw man to focus on risk bites, a few folk might but most people don't think that they're about to get savaged by every pet that passes them by. Rather, people have a right to go about their day without being harassed by someone else's hound no matter how cute they are.* Phobias aside they might simply not want slobber on their arms, muddy paws on their pants or just not like dogs. And that takes priority over your precious pooch.
(* or the dog)
I'll back that up with a couple of anecdotes.
I like dogs. I wouldn't want the responsibility of owning one because they're too needy, I'm struggling right now with kittens. But if I had say a partner with a dog who took full responsibility for it then I'd be good with that.
In the last week I've been for a walk with two dog owners and their dogs. The first was on Friday with my mate Leaon and Monty who is 40-50kgs worth of Black Labrador. Monty hangs on Leaon's every word. We encounter people or other dogs, some of whom are riving on the end of a lead going batshit, Leaon quietly goes "sit" and Monty's arse hits the ground so fast and hard that it leaves a dent. Monty is awesome. We brought them into our back yard for a socially distanced cup of tea afterwards (and a bowl of water for Monty), the indoor cats overreacted in a panic but the dog barely blinked because Leaon told him not to.
This afternoon I went out with my partner, her sister and the sister's dog "Prince Rory". Prince Rory is one of these handbag-sized dogs, I dunno, some sort of Jack Russell cross maybe? And it's a little prick, I despise it. Walking down a bridleway, people coming the other way going "oh, isn't he cute?" The sister goes "he's not very friendly," they go "oh" and step back but it's too late because Prince Rory is suddenly giving it BARKBARKBARKBARKBARKBARKBARKBARK at them. Off lead.
The sister is a professional dog groomer.
Back in the house afterwards Prince Rory went for our cat. I love animals, I like dogs, but I'd cheerfully put Prince Rory into low Earth orbit propelled by a size eight.
If you're out in public with a dog, you need reliable recall or a lead. It really is that simple. Pick one, there is no option three here unless you're a bellend. People > dogs and it's the square root of **** all to do with "he's never bitten anyone before".
Sensible dog owners get annoyed at being tarred with the same brush as the idiots, but don’t see why they should have to modify what they do because of it. Non-dog people want everything done the way they say and won’t compromise
Sensible dog owners don't need to modify their behaviour, because they're sensible. If they're being asked to modify their behaviour then they aren't sensible dog owners. QED.
Non-dog owners, in the context of this post at least, generally just want to be left in peace to enjoy their walk. This really shouldn't be an outlandish request. Where's the compromise you're proposing here, "oh, it's OK, he'll only get you slightly covered in the sheep shit he's just been eating"? I might like dogs, I might not like dogs, but the call to choose to accept interaction with one is mine and not yours or the dog's.
At the risk of repeating myself, people > animals.
Sensible dog owners don’t need to modify their behaviour, because they’re sensible. If they’re being asked to modify their behaviour then they aren’t sensible dog owners. QED.
It's a bit like driving though isn't it? Not many people self identify as shit drivers and not many people will self identify as irresponsible dog owners.
It’s a bit like driving though isn’t it? Not many people self identify as shit drivers and not many people will self identify as irresponsible dog owners.
It’s a bit like all drivers labelling every cyclist as a nuisance who shouldn’t be on the road.
It’s a bit like all drivers labelling every cyclist as a nuisance who shouldn’t be on the road.
It's exactly like that, has this place suddenly turned into the daily wail?
There's a tiny number of people reading this forum, a smaller number reading this thread, a smaller number who own dogs, and the vast majority of those will be responsible anyway. So for all the whinging and pompous declarations of "I will not let your dog inflict it's behaviour on me" I doubt even a single dog owner reading any of this crap will modify their behaviour, either because they don't have to or they don't recognise a problem.
Still at least it gives the bored middle aged an outlet to vent their spleens.
Suddenly?! 😀
I sometimes have to double check I'm not in the daily mail readers comments section
Here’s the answer: HUMANS TRUMP DOGS. That’s it, end of thread.
Indeed and some humans choose to have dogs and this doesn't excuse abuse of dogs or killing them if a dog approaches you. Nor does it excuse dog owners form not training their dogs or cleaning up after them. If you get unwanted attention from a dog then take it up with the owner. If they're not a dick they will be apologetic I'm sure, so long as you're not abusive then all bets are off. Not sure how I would act if I was profusely apologising to someone about my dogs behaviour and they hurled abuse at me...would probably result with a swift retraction of my apology and a tirade of verbal abuse back..and I'm half Glaswegian and well schooled in the art of verbal abuse, so not many people can trump me when it comes to verbal abuse. We can all be dicks when we want to be. It's an affliction all humans suffer.
Is it just me or is a good part of this problem is that there are just too many dogs?
Think this is a big part of the problem. Lockdown has not only seen an increase in dog ownership, probably from alot of inexperienced dog owner newbies (me included) as well as a restriction on where people take their dogs for walks. Also couple that with people who wouldn't normally take a walk around their local villag/town/estate suddenly peeling themselves away form whatever box set they're watcing, then you have a much higher rate of dog/human interactions. So no surprise there is an increase in complaints and problems..it is inevitable. Now that lockdown is easing it will be interesting if we see this reduce as more people take their dogs further afield for walks like alot of dog owners would normally do.
Well this thread has certainly been something of a rollercoaster that must be on at least it's third revolution now.
It all comes down one thing at the end of the day, people can and will be dicks who are incapable of seeing how dickish they are even when called out about it. OP had that issue, as have many others who have shared anecdotes on this thread.
Are there too many dogs. Yes, absolutely. And I say this as a dog owner. Dog rescues are full to bursting and having to turn perfectly healthy dogs away ( almost certainly to get euthanised ) because of lockdown puppies. Puppies that, if people who got them actually took an ounce of responsibility and properly trained & socialised them would not have turned into canine hooligans. Even at hooligan stage, if people took their responsibility seriously enough they could resolve it but no... easier to just give them away.
As the owner of a large canine athlete who was a complete hooligan when we got him I am not going to deny that the journey was hard - it is. It took time with a good trainer who spent more time training me than the hound.
Just like anything else, being a good dog owner is a skill that you have to learn. Some things you can just tick off - the easy ones are discussed in this thread. Pick up the crap, put your dog on a lead when asked, don't let it near other people or dogs unless you have appropriate permission. Very simple things that don't require any skill - just a bit of decency and common sense. The skill is training your dog like the Lab that @Cougar mentioned - I know I neither have that level of skill nor an animal that will respond in the same way - so my hound stays on the lead everywhere.
Sensible dog owners don’t need to modify their behaviour, because they’re sensible. If they’re being asked to modify their behaviour then they aren’t sensible dog owners. QED.
And who decides what is deemed sensible? Does sensible mean they do what you think they should?
Out on cross bike last night, riding through a forest and on an adjacent path about 30 to 40ft away I could hear a women shouting frantically to try and control her angry barking dog.
I Didn't think much of it until I looked behind and the same big angry barking dog started chasing after me. Probably only lasted for 10s, but it started closing at one point and I was getting very worried. I'm a dog owner, so use to dogs, must be even worse for someone who is scared of dogs.
Would hate to think what would have happened if it caught me, or worse still if it had chased a child that couldn't ride fast enough to get away from it. It really didn't look like it was friendly and chasing me for cuddles.
The woman really didn't have any control over her dog.
If you get unwanted attention from a dog then take it up with the owner. If they’re not a dick they will be apologetic I’m sure
Yes but by then it's too late. Some (most, I don't actually know) don't want an apology and didn't want the attention.
A dog passed me yesterday, off it’s lead a few feet in front of its owner, the dog was wagging its tail, the owner and I greeted each other good morning.
I’m a dog owner, so use to dogs, must be even worse for someone who is scared of dogs.
Why didn't you just quickly train it as it was chasing you and get it to sit and stay. Apparently as a dog owner that should be easy enough 🙂
kerley 😂 it may be easy, but that was the last thing on my mind!
Drac well I had lots of similar situations to yours too. In fact the majority of my interactions with dogs and their dog owners are like that. When riding I am always considerate around dogs, I slow down and take my time when passing them, as I never want to scare/spook a dog in case I reacts badly. But last night was nearly a change of underwear moment. I was genuinely worried the dog was going to bite me if it had caught me.
A combined path/bridleway isn't a great place to let a dog off its lead, but then many owners seem infinitely entitled.
How wise is this bridleway, how busy is it, is through tress or open fields?
Seems like bad place for out of control cyclists to be riding, there could be you kids out with their parents.
I'm speaking about the TPT, for example. One section of the user code says don't block the path.
It's a designated cycle route.
A dog passed me yesterday, off it’s lead a few feet in front of its owner, the dog was wagging its tail, the owner and I greeted each other good morning.
Outrageous! That tail could have wagged a child’s face clean off or taken the eye out of someone doing squats/tying a shoelace. Bring back docking!
That should be good for another page.
Have we not finished putting everyone in their little boxes yet? Accept it, dog owners don't give a toss about your whining. Drac has it correct, just like car owners think cyclists are uncontrollable dickheads, you guys think most dog owners are idiots who cant control their mutts.
At the end of the day i hope you have managed to make yourself feel better but with maniacs driving about trying to kill you i would say you have bigger things to worry about.
Finally, my little schanuzer must have read this thread. He has been a model of behaviour recently, even managing to recall when other dogs are running about. Maybe i will qualify as a responsible dog owner one day but if i dont, well i will climb inside my box and live with it.
A combined path/bridleway isn’t a great place to let a dog off its lead, but then many owners seem infinitely entitled.
Go on then, why?
a lot to unpack here.
While i have total sympathy with the OP and MrsOP, i really do,
another-entitled-dog-owner
and many of the comments along those lines reads a lot like a Daily Heil Article about cyclists.
you want to be careful going on about kicking dogs and owners being thickos, cause plenty of people think that about us cyclists.
Getting physical with a dog is 50:50 going to get you punched by the owner, risky business.
The only tactic i think you can get away with (and it only applies when on the bike), is to play them at their own game:
if you're getting chased by a dog, adjust your speed so the dog cant catch you, but can definitely keep up and keep interested. Run them into the next county, then leave them there.
maybe the owner will keep the on the lead (if they ever get them back)
Go on then, why?
Because you are demanding that cyclists get out of the way of your dog on the cycle route, as if your dog had right of way.
Would you do the same on a road?
Seems like bad place for out of control cyclists to be riding, there could be you kids out with their parents.
Why are the kids not on leads or walking to heel?
if you’re getting chased by a dog, adjust your speed so the dog cant catch you, but can definitely keep up and keep interested. Run them into the next county, then leave them there.
We covered this scenario a few pages back. Apparently encouraging a dog to chase you risks them dying of exhaustion. So I'm afraid you've become what you were criticising earlier in your post. Sorry about that.
Another option would be to stop therefore no longer being the dog's prey. I won't be doing that though as it will play havoc on my segment times.
Another option would be to stop therefore no longer being the dog’s prey.
Someone should tell all those other prey species. They're missing a trick with all this 'keep running' malarkey. 🙂