[Closed] Another ending relationship

Apart from trying again to sort the relationship out,

My advice would be to focus as much as possible on this and at least give counselling a try through an organisation like Relate.

I was with you until this bit

3. Child contact will be minimal as they are so young but expected to be 1 day per week once available

I had to read that twice as it makes no sense to me at all. Why do you redirect or want so little contact?

Hi Frank, this is TBC, obviously I want more contact but so far I've been told to expect 1 overnight stay once they are old enough, day to day contact should be more as I'll be doing creche runs a few times of week etc

TBH I'm not sure how this bit works, as in trying to have more contact than is dictated

Kids at 9 months are hard work and not very rewarding - the head of maternity quipped to Madame that babies are a noisy digestive tract. They'll get a lot more interesting soon. from 2 on they become a delight. You'll get your lady friend back eventually too if you're patient. On the argument front - takes two to tango.

On the argument front – takes two to tango.

Yeah for sure, it's definitely something I'm trying to work on, and will continue to do until Jan to se if we can resolve things, I should let a lot more of it go over my head than it does, but sometimes the slightest inflection in vocal tone can kick something off when I'm really not looking to argue, I've just used the wrong phrase or slightly wrong tone then it's back to cat and dog without wanting or intending to be there

I don't get the logic with the kids, the more you do the easier it gets to do stuff as they are around you enough.

As for the "they are boring at this age" argument, it depends on what your perspective is, if you want to make sure you are an equal parent then put the work in otherwise you end up the crèche chauffeur and weekly babysitter.

My advice would be to focus as much as possible on this and at least give counselling a try through an organisation like Relate.

I'd agree with this. When my first marriage was showing signs of breaking down we went to Relate. It ultimately didn't save the marriage, but it did allow us to part amicably. It became a controlled landing rather than a plane crash.

How is your other half coping? No need to answer on here but think about what could be going on. Post natal depression manifests itself in various ways, stressed about a return to work and coping with twins just as she gets them 100% not 50% with perhaps the odd day off. Uncertainty on many fronts.

What would she write if it were her that had started the thread?

Definitely not boring, they're learning loads at the moment and have just started to laugh when tickled which is amazing, we have play time after I finish work before tea every night which is always good. So yeah, all the way through I've been a big part of their lives in all aspects and want to remain as such

I probably needed to re-phrase the above better, i'm not looking to off load, we've only spoken about how much contact I'd have a few times and was told to expect minimal, but as I say, I'm not sure how that is dictated or what rights I have, I'll need to start doing so research here if it does get to that

thanks for all the advice, it's helping a lot, I'm pretty cut off socially so don't have anyone I can really talk to face to face

I should let a lot more of it go over my head than it does, but sometimes the slightest inflection in vocal tone can kick something off when I’m really not looking to argue, I’ve just used the wrong phrase or slightly wrong tone then it’s back to cat and dog without wanting or intending to be there

Sounds a lot like stress TBH - what else have you got on your plate apart from twins?

You're dealing with (unplanned) twin babies and a building site. You're tired and stressed, so it'd be a minor miracle if your relationship wasn't at least a little bit rocky. I guess the big question is with calmer circumstances - partner back at work, childcare available - do you think your relationship would improve?

PM sent

Sorry to hear it. All i'll add is that, IMO, don't get a "do-er upper" house if you've got kids that young!! If she's looking after twins alone, you'll probably be helping a lot?? Maybe it's worth renting nearby first?

Kids at 9 months are hard work and not very rewarding

Our 10 month old is a blast, cheeky little blighter. It's extremely rewarding teaching her new tricks and watching her grow up so quickly day by day.

I'd certainly be demanding more than 1 day, just because you're the dad doesn't mean you get dictated to in that regards.

When our second was born I went through a rough patch, there was no sleeping both boys were a nightmare, work was shit, house was / still is falling down. Relationship got really bad, I kept getting very ill, my eldest nearly died 3 times (turned out to be a food allergy) I ended up sleeping in the (converted) garage for a year. Things got very bad, running away was not an option (father left me, and my wife’s father left her, and it was not an option to do that to my kids). Suicide was thought about a lot, but it would have screwed everyone financially, and again I didn’t want to do that to my family. So I toughed it out, on my own, and it sucked. They a 3 and 5 now, and mostly good fun, relationship with my wife is much better, but not the same as before. Am I as happy as I was pre kids? No. Sorry to say it. But things are a billion times better than 2 years ago, and keep getting (mostly) better, apart from the job. I am looking forward to it getting better still as they get older.

Stick with it, treat it as some sort of challenge which won’t break you. It’ll get better.

Highlight of the year, was getting my 5 year old a frog 48 for his birthday and him ripping around trails the same day, where he was on stabilisers the day before. Now we can go on 10mile rides for an ice cream together....see there’s good stuff to look forward to

Sorry to hear about this. Lots of people with good experience/advise here, but picking up on the lack of social contact - is this for both of you?? Talking form much experience, it does sometimes help to understand how this affects both of you, even introverts need other adult time but often do not understand that!

Also, relate - absolutely - hated the idea, but it worked for us. Many things they will talk about, faults on both sides, resilience and not off-loading baggage constantly, using friendship groups, time apart (socially), but also help you to understand if you truly are not right for each other - they wont tell you, they will let you figure it out with help and guidance.

2 kids, especially twins, especially premature is going to be a nightmare for anyone. We’ve friends that went trough this with mum at one point almost walking out in desperation, but it was all talked through, dad realised the part he needed to play and made sure family was also around to help – it can be a very lonely existence locked up with screaming shit machines.

But if you are set, firstly I don’t think you will see a crash in house market so don’t bank on it! Do make sure you stay in constant contact, this must be from he off-set, not 9-12 months down the line – no excuses..

And It'll get better, Larry_Lamb. I was (mainly) the one changing the nappies etc. that was just the way it worked out with our work etc.. The one guessing what was wrong, the one with a baby under my arm in the bank, at the accountants or wherever, and with just one, the OP and his lady have double that! I found it hard work however rewarding and looking back only cracked when I could, a few years later, with a never ending sabatical.

Some kids are easier than others, we had a relatively easy one (till he was about 14), our neighbours have a not so easy one but they're coping.

Just because you're finding it a blast doesn't mean the OP's lady is finding it a blast with two. And even if she is she stil has to face returning to work and has little idea where it's going with her partner who still trying to work it all out on here with us.

Just because you’re finding it a blast doesn’t mean the OP’s lady is finding it a blast with two.

And just because you said you didn't enjoy it doesn't mean everyone won't. You generalised stating "kids at 9 months are hard work"

It's called a balanced argument.

I've tried to be as hands on as possible, one thing that causing stress is sleep, I'm a really heavy sleeper so never woke for the kids in the night on my own which led to my GF having to do the majority of the night attention, this was mainly just popping over to settle them but still interrupted sleep a lot, and now I've started snoring heavily, which is also affecting sleep negatively, and I'm stuck re how to resolve

On my side I'm doing as much as I can to support at meal times, and the GF is going to 2x yoga and a fitness class every week, plus is open to see friends as and when on the weekend, I've not really seen any of my friends or gone for a ride since the children came out of hospital as I've been putting them and the GF's free time first as much as possible.

Going back to the pregnancy it was rough as within myself I knew that it was a 50/50 if we'd make it long term or not, and in truth I should have done more then, than thinking this might not work given our past history of 2 months on / 2 off

She has told me a number of times there is no future for us and she wants me out so although I'm doing what I can, when I can, every detail and mistake is being picked up on to re-inforce the fact that I'm incapable and should leave

I realise I'm going a bit all over with this today, it's just the first real chance I've had to get this off my chest for a year

And just because you said you didn’t enjoy it doesn’t mean everyone won’t

Read back, I didn't say that, I said it was hard work because it was. Hard work can be rewarding and enjoyable but it's still hard work.

It’s called a balanced argument.

Absolutely. 🙂

We seem to be demonstrating how easy it is to start an argument even when we both have the same objective - constructive views for the OP. 🙂

Edit: people say all sorts of nasty shit that deep down they don't mean.

Ok I am trying not to be trite and patronising but however I write this, it is. Apologies in advance.

My brats are early teens now and I look back with some horror at the pain we went through in the early years, you are knackered, stressed and have very different ideas about how to bring up kids. We came close to splitting up, once the police were involved and we hated each other a few times. We got through it, recognised the contributions we both made and have grown stronger because of it. Your post made me look up at the wife and tell her I love her.

You should work on salvaging the relationship. We said and did some awful things to each other during those years, she had post partum depression, I was an arrogant arsehole.

See if you can work on the positives and forgive the negatives (no matter how bad they are). Remember that all relationships are tough, life is a compromise, there is no such thing as a perfect parent. The pain will pass.

Thanks 5plus

Lockdown has not helped as we'd both planned to do a shared parental leave with 4 months off each, due to lockdown I've been working from home since March in a pretty stressful job as a PM (don't joke! 🙂 ) And GF did the full 12 months, we've properly been on top of each other with the non refusable 'can you just change a nappie' 2 mins before a con call with the line manager etc

Looking back I'm surprised we made it this far, and on the serious side the police have nearly been called a few times but we've managed to go our seperate ways to calm down for a few hours luckily

Wow...this is not great at all is it? And such a shame, when you have been blessed with twin boys, that some couples would give up limbs for!

Some sound advice though and I can only concur that to bring up premature 9 month old boys, must take a hell of a lot out of both of you. I think despite the fact that you are arguing, it would be extremely unfair to drop all of the load on your GF at such a difficult time.

My advice would be to wind yer neck in, bite yer lip and stick with it for at least another year and try as hard as you can to make it work.

Our 10 month old is a blast, cheeky little blighter

Two is definitely not twice the blast.

OP based on the year you have both had it is not hard to see that the stressometer in the house must have blown a gasket for all. I'd suggest either Relate or at least a step backwards to take a slightly wider picture of the unfolding events.

You both now have two new lives for which you are both responsible. That is the immutable truth. Whether planned or not, congratulations. Operate based on how you will both rise to these responsibilities. Children are pretty unrewarding for the first 18mo. Two at a time is ridiculously hard. Nobody likes to admit that fact but it is true.

Good luck to the four of you.

PS After 18mo they start to become little people. Then you blink and they are off to Uni. I am not joking.

Thanks all, the responses today have really helped me re-evaluate my situation, it was never a choice to walk, rather be pushed out due to us not really ever finding a common ground, and doing it for the right reasons overall, I'll try to speak to the GF when time allows, it's getting easier as they're getting older and I think when crèche starts it may get a little easier again as we'll not be in each others pockets as much so have space to breath.

I'll add one other point. Your relationship with your GF has not ended. It may certainly change in the future, but your children will always mean that there is a relationship there. Children are hard work, stupidly stressful and never-ending. Twins are at least three-times as hard. Being on top of each other means you can't really get any perspective. To be frank, you both sound like you could do with a break. We dumped our (one) 9mo old with in-laws and went to a cottage for a weekend. Slept for most of it!!! See if you can do something like that.

We only have in-laws on one side and they live 200 miles away, we did visit for a weekend and managed to nip out on our own for a couple of hours, that's been about it, we managed a week away in Sept with the kids which was good for a change of scenery but with COVID going on (as I'm sure everyone else has experienced) its still pretty stressy depending on you're outlook even if you're popping to the shops..

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We only have in-laws on one side and they live 200 miles away, we did visit for a weekend and managed to nip out on our own for a couple of hours, that’s been about it

just on this point, i bet it wasnt what you thought it would be was it!? i wouldn't be surprised if you were expecting too much from the restbite, finsging that all of a sudden here you are without the kids, on your own and now you've got nothing to say, or what you do winds the other up... been there.. It's normal im told, and on reflection it is/was. Our kids are now 8 and 10 - were sorting of enjoying each other again - just..

Also the whole change of being a parent can sometimes take ages to sink in - talking years sometimes, especially if it's pulled aparts someones career path - its a lot to take in and process and i believe a lot of people make rash decisions becasue they cant see past what has just happened, other than it's chnaged things big time..

You’re dealing with (unplanned) twin babies and a building site. You’re tired and stressed, so it’d be a minor miracle if your relationship wasn’t at least a little bit rocky. I guess the big question is with calmer circumstances – partner back at work, childcare available – do you think your relationship would improve?

This.

Most people in the west start down the road of kids and houses once they've built a strong relationship. You guys are having to do that whist dealing with all of the latter already. Counselling is a good shout - and maybe try to understand the cultural differences between eastern and western relationships because this is much more common in more conservative countries where young adults get thrown in together and have to make a go of it.

You two shouldn't beat yourself up so much, you've dived in headfirst into the deep end. I don't have children yet and I think it will be ridiculously hard despite me and the missus living together for 10 years since (during and after university) and raising a puppy together before the lockdown.

Is the OH doing all the child care? Staying at home with children is spectacularly hard work. I sometimes wonder how any couples survive.  If you aren't doing so already do all you can to take up some of that load, even if you are working during the day and diying in the evening.  Stop the DIY even.  Moving in together, renovation and children is just way too much to absorb in one go so as said earlier don't beat yourselves up over it.  Of course everyone is tense, this stuff is impossible at the best if times never mind 2020 when the whole world is ****ed up

I hope you manage to find a way to make this work.

You’re dealing with (unplanned) twin babies and a building site. You’re tired and stressed, so it’d be a minor miracle if your relationship wasn’t at least a little bit rocky. I guess the big question is with calmer circumstances – partner back at work, childcare available – do you think your relationship would improve?

Not to mention a full time WFH job with two small kids around - it took me ages to convince my wife that just because I was at home it didn't mean I was necessarily available to cook/put the washing out/etc. Of course, if your partner is doing all the child care she could very well be thinking you're just sitting there relaxing in front of a computer while she's doing all the hard work... Is there any way you can bring the crèche start date forward? It won't get you out of working, but at least one possible source of resentment would be cleared.

And yeah, ditch the DIY work for the moment. All of it, bar emergency pipe-springing-a-leak stuff.

Is no-one else reading this story with massive QI klaxons and flashing red lights going off in their head?

TBH I’m not sure how this bit works, as in trying to have more contact than is dictated

Dictated by whom?

She has told me a number of times there is no future for us and she wants me out so although I’m doing what I can, when I can, every detail and mistake is being picked up on to re-inforce the fact that I’m incapable and should leave

Do not leave, that's the worst thing you can do. Presumably the house in joint names? She's the one that wants it over, tell her to pack her bags and **** off if that's how she feels.

It's very difficult to judge accurately from a couple of forum posts but it looks to me very much like you're in a relationship with a narcissist and she saw you coming, in both senses of the word, three years ago. "Thanks for the kids, now if you can kindly leave me all of your money as well and quietly disappear without making a fuss, that'd be grand."

Talk to a solicitor. Talk to Citizen's Advice. Learn your rights. Don't get rolled over, the system is stacked against you to start with without you volunteering to capitulate to her every demand.

And in future, if you're gonna go paddling then wear your wellies.

FFS, Cougar. Unlike most of us you have all the time in the world to edit that. I suggest going back and reading the first post on the thread.

Edit: I see you have, I agree with the last sentence you've added. But it wasn't as if the lady concerned was claiming to be on the pill when she wasn't, i.e. where's the evidence of the bad faith you are implying?

Raising kids is hard especially in the early years.  Raising twins is incredibly hard.  I know (vaguely) of one lady who decided to go solo with twins and it'd be fair to say it's considerably harder than she envisaged...

I'm struggling a bit to envisage how bad it would have to be after 9 months to decide (on her part) how much better it'd be trying to do everything solo unless you've been loafing around the sofa the whole time (and your posts certainly don't imply that is the case).  I only have one 6 year old and it's still a constant round of logistics and to do lists...

This bit makes me wonder:

"She has told me a number of times there is no future for us and she wants me out so although I’m doing what I can, when I can, every detail and mistake is being picked up on to re-inforce the fact that I’m incapable and should leave"

I'd echo the consensus above that counselling and not rushing into something to fast is what'd I'd plan to do.  Once you've left I think it's very much a rear guard action.

Thanks all, re child care I knock off at 4.30 so I'm usually out of the spare room and playing with them by 4.35 to give her a break or give her some time to make food for them, then I'll feed and we'll both take them to bed for milk, clothes, story, this happens every night, then I'm up at 5.30am when the smallest one wakes up, feed, feed the other then I'm usually downstairs doing jobs, empty dishwasher, clean floors, sort bottles etc, then work at 8am, I also cook pretty much every night so I'm pulling my weight.

I treated her to a night stay in a hotel to help recover from sleep and have looked after the kids when she went away for a weekend, I'm feeling a bit beat up as apart from a few short Skype calls around May I've not had a beer with mates or even really spoke to them about being a Dad for the first time

We're both in our early 40s, my gf has a son from a previous relationship who she bought up on her own till he left at 18 to be an outdoor instructor so she knows the score, for her if there's no love it's pointless trying so best to cut your losses and go from there, I'd rather stick around but the fights are starting to get out of hand and the thought of my own space again is looking appealing in some respects, the thought of not seeing the kids run in one morning and jump on the bed so we're a family one day is making me try my best to resolve this

where’s the evidence of the bad faith you are implying?

Every time he's cited that he's being told what to do. Which seemingly isn't uncommon. Why is he the one moving out of the family home?

OK, fair, I may have put two and two together and got 37. But there's a lot that just doesn't sound right here. I wasn't intending to imply that she got pregnant intentionally and / or deceptively, rather that she seems to be making all the decisions in this process.

🙁 sounds like you are on top of all the obvious stuff and you are not on in a rush to get out.  No wisdom but wishing you good luck in finding a solution

Cougar, it's her home, my name's not in it, I sold mine but have the cash saved so if it does come to it I'll sort something out as stated in my first post, looking back I should have probably not sold mine but the extra cash has been handy and I wanted to show I was all in, not just sitting on the fence

So OK, that's different, assuming that you've not invested all your net worth into her house with nothing to show for it. I assumed joint ownership, sorry.

That said, the fact that you felt a requirement to 'prove yourself' is still kinda worrying. You don't sell a house to show commitment, you sell a house because you're committed.

I have to slightly agree with Cougar, there are a number of points that make me wonder here - I don't think there's necessarily any intention to deceive, but the OP's working full time, she's out 3 times a week for yoga and whatever, he does seem to be killing himself to be the perfect father. Add to that the other 18 year old son and I do wonder how much he's being taken for a ride.

But....... that's his side of the story. He has also admitted he's on edge and argumentative, plus of course they were always a bit up and down even before the GF got pregnant.

Assuming both sides are equally at fault, I really do think the most important thing here is rest and a break from DIY and kids, and try to rebuild their relationship when they're both not irritable due to lack of sleep.

You don’t sell a house to show commitment, you sell a house because you’re committed.

Yeah totally agree, it was that, I looked at renting it but it didn't stack up so sold as I couldn't think of a day when I'd not want to wake up under the same roof as the lads and the GF

There's a lot in your posting that says you still want the relationship to work, Mandrake. As a complete outsider who knows neither of you and with just one side to go on I'll offer one piece of well intentioned advice . deal with this first " I’d rather stick around but the fights are starting to get out of hand " and find someone to help you with it.

All the best to all four of you.

There’s a lot in your posting that says you still want the relationship to work, Mandrake.

Yup. This is clear as day to me.

She's given him his marching orders. Yet she's still "the GF" not "the ex-GF."

So, roll on 6 months...

I've bought a house (took an age to get an offer accepted and is taking an age to go through) it's 10 mins walking distance from the boys though which is ideal for me, I wanted it to feel like they could be in walking distance not thrown into a car and driven for miles everytime they came over

The arguments have continued to get worse, I'm often asked to leave the house mid argument and not come back till 10,11pm which I hate as I just end up sat around the local town kicking my heels, even though they're open the pub is best kept out of

We're getting towards the pointy end with petty threats being thrown, having to pay the 20% extra child maintenance for collect and pay is one which I don't think they would actually do as long as the correct amount and standing order is set up (which it will be) plus she'll lose the 4% on her side

We argued all weekend as I struggle to deal with one of the lads on Saturday morning (teething) I tried every trick I knew but still couldn't comfort him so just found it really frustrating - which was painted across my face, but it's just hard sometimes.

I'm looking forward to a new start, I'm chasing solicitors daily but still have about 8 weeks of horribleness to get through first.

Thanks to those who've PMd apologies if I've not got back, just feeling a bit insular at times

Sounds unpleasant at the moment but at least there's progress. It sounds like the new house will be great - not too far but also not just round the corner. Good luck.

it takes a while, but it does get a lot better. Pay your maintenance and do as much as you can as often and you can with the children. Time will take care of everything else.

Good luck