[Closed] Another camera thread; What four thirds.

We looked at loads when my OH wanted one recently. Ended up with a Panasonic Lumix GF2. Small, light, and there's a kit which comes with a decent walkabout lens (14-42 IIRC, same as an APS-C 18-55) and a 14mm pancake.

Great piece of kit, she adores it.

I'm a big fan of the Lumix G series cameras too.

Very happy with my GF1, i think the thing to remember it is the camera user not the camera that makes the biggest difference.

There are some great deals on GF3's at the moment (£199 inc. kit zoom lens after rebate)

Yup, and Tesco are doing the G2 with 14-42 kit lens for £200. Not sure on these deals but some come with a free copy of Lightroom as well.

That's an amazing combination of size/price/image quality IMO.

iodious - where on earth are you finding that GF3 deal? i am there! (once you kindly show me the link which will be much appreciated)

http://www.cameraworld.co.uk/ViewProdDetails.asp?prod_code=PON11F000067

nice one dude, thank you very much, il have a little think about ti buy i shall most likely be purchasing one of those asap! have you bought something from this shop before, its legitimate and all...? fantastic price

I bought one from this shop, very good to deal with, i'd recommend them.

More new camera toys Nick? 🙂

There are some great deals on GF3's at the moment

Rightly or wrongly, the guy in the camera shop recommended we steer clear of the GF3. Something about the position of the flash means larger lenses get in the way of it. Course, it could just've been that there were none in stock and he wanted to sell us the GF2.

The GF3 is really very very small indeed. Depending on your preferences it could be a bit too small.

Kind of makes sense with the pancake lenses or the power zoom attached, but not any of the bigger lenses.

If you want good pics and a small size the Panasonic GX1 with the 14-42 powerzoom is hard to beat. The lens collapses to the size of a pancake lens. More pricey though but much nicer to use than a GF3. IMO probably the best IQ for size available at the moment.

I have the epm1 with 14mm pancake, its very small and ideal for sticking in the pack to take biking, and manages some pretty decent pics even in thick forest.

The power zoom model is about £100 more than the standard 14-42. Personally I'd rather put that money towards a 20mm pancake for a truly compact camera.

All the reviews are saying the GX1 is the true successor to the GF1 which was highly rated.

I've been to camera world and tried both the gf3 and gx1, they are both good but the gx1 is the better of the 2.

The power zoom lens isn't getting stellar reviews at the moment, maybe a firmware update will fix it/maybe not.

There have been deals knocking about recently for the GF3 with a 14-42 and a 14 prime for £299 at Jessops once you take the cashback into account. The GF3's flash doesn't pop up that high but it's very easy to hold the flash at an angle with one finger to bounce the flash.

Second the 20mm lens cracking bit of kit.

I got a G3 in the week for £379 with £50 cashback and 3year warranty from Mathers http://www.mathersoflancashire.co.uk/

Right I have narrowed it down to two choices, obviously spending more money than I had planned...Panasonic gx1 with pancake and normal 14-42 or Canon gx1...can be hade for sameish money.

Depends on budget really.

I've been eyeing up the Olympus E-PL3, but the E-PL1 is a pretty good deal currently. I think they are way nicer than the Panasonic ones in terms of niceness.

And I presume you mean micro 4/3 rather than 4/3. If you're not specifically in need of a m4/3 camera then the Sony NEX ones are generally considered to be excellent.

I've not used the Canon G1X, but from reviews it sounds slow - slow AF, slow burst mode, slow lens aperture. And you can't change lenses.

One of the great joys for me was using really nice old MF lenses with adapters on my GF1. Cheap, fun, good for learning, and very satisfying. Some of them have great IQ as well.

NEX looks good but the lenses are quite big, and not as good as the m4/3 range I believe.

Where can you get a powerzoom 14-42 for £185?

[quote=lodious]There are some great deals on GF3's at the moment (£199 inc. kit zoom lens after rebate)

http://www.cameraworld.co.uk/ViewProdDetails.asp?prod_code=PON11F000067

I got a G3 in the week for £379 with £50 cashback and 3year warranty from Mathers http://www.mathersoflancashire.co.uk/

Is this correct? The [url= http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/8077160/index.html ]Panasonic website[/url] seems to indicate that the rebate is only if you buy a camera [i]and[/i] a lens (separately as I read it)...

GF2 user here and very, very happy with it.

frogstomp your offer is from last year, this is the one you want

[url] http://www.lumixlifestyle.co.uk/cashback/lumix-g/ [/url]

[quote=anus]frogstomp your offer is from last year, this is the one you want

http://www.lumixlifestyle.co.uk/cashback/lumix-g/

Ah, thanks for that.. the new 14-42mm pancake lens is tempting with the cashback offer...

To throw another spanne in the mix Panasonic have released the gf5, which is the same specs as the gx1 but with less mps and a better rear screen.

[url= http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_gf5_review/sample_images/ ]There's lots images for comparison on this site[/url]

So.. lots of people mentioning Panasonic here - why go for them over Olympus?

Not really answering your question here as I went with Olympus but to me, the Olympus felt like a more solid camera and I didn't like the touchscreen system on the Panny, got to love those Panasonic pancakes though. I just posted these in the other thread but these are some pics in the forest with EPM1 and 14mm F2.5 lens, all quite high ISO (1000-1600) trying to capture some fast movement in the forest.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Panasonics tend to be cheaper than Olympus, they seem to be more widely available. I don't see Olympus in Currys or Comet when I wander through, but I do see Panasonic everwhere!

I've played with some Panasonics in the shop and whilst cheap, they did look a cheaper and the rear screen menus and such looked awful. Couldn't argue with value for money though.

Pepper.. I have also noticed that. I think Olympus are not a particularly big company though, which might have something to do with the supply deals going on.

Some randomly assorted thoughts on m43 cameras based on my own experience:

Panasonic menus are easier to deal with than Olympus (used both, panasonic was a hands down win, far more intuitive).

Olympus in camera JPEGs are arguably better than Panasonic, especially if you use the art filters such as sepia, BW, moody, etc. Raw is a tie.

Panasonic video tends to be better than Olympus, especially in the higher models and even more so when used with Panasonics HD lenses.

Panasonic bodies tend to be better at correcting for chromatic and spherical aberration artifacts, especially with panasonic lenses.

The OLED screen on the E-P3 is better than any Panasonic offering if you require the best image for composing your shot or high quality playback in camera.

Although interchangeable, m43 lenses work better on their respective manufacturers bodies, particularly wrt focusing speed and inbuilt correction of lens aberrations.

If you are after a small camera for biking and can afford it I'd personally get the Panasonic GX1 with powerzoom 14-42mm. The OH has a GF2 with this lens and it is the best compromise I've seen for portability vs. picture taking prowess. The GX1 would make it more so. If you want a viewfinder then the G3 is similar to the GX1 in performance and handling but has a plastic body. I personally don't like the ergonomics of Olympus PEN series cameras (E-P3 excepted) or the smaller Panasonic offerings but I have big hands and like viewfinders.

I think the GF3 is too limited as a "real" camera, for not much bigger size I'd rather get the GX1/G3 and have much more control, better pics and ergonomics. If you can cope with the rather tiny size the new GF5 may be a good middle ground although it lacks features a full camera would (should?) have such as a hot shoe, iso button, etc. Long lenses on the GF3/5 and smaller PENs get unwieldy due to the body size/grip.

At the end of the day go into a shop and try some, it's the only way really.

I bought the GF3 with the 14mm pancake for £250 last night... 😀 Then read shackleton's post..... 🙁

Basically paid half the price of the gx1, which did seem better. I think it will be easier to learn to use the GF3. Anybody want a perfect condition coolpix s3000 with Lowepro case for £40?

I have the Pana G1 and also G2, and I have been very happy with both, but if I was starting again I think I'd buy the Sony NEX-7, which has had rave reviews about image quality, even if less than glowing reviews about menus, ergonomics etc.

Shackleton, you didn't mention image stabilisation. A big factor imo, and Oly have it in the bodies.

molgrips - I've just logged on to add that very point! I remembered it as I was drifting off to sleep but thought it could probably wait until my morning coffee break to add it.......

Oly have stabilisation in body so any lens is stabilised, panasonic is in the lens so only panasonic lenses are stabilised. Not really an issue for short or fast lenses but is noticable with longer ones or dim environments.

duckman - sorry to put a downer on, I didn't mean to. The GF3 is a good camera and if you want an interchangeable lens camera for biking then it is geat as it is tiny. If you want an interchangeable lens camera that you can [u]also[/u] take biking then I think it lacks some functions and facilities. But nothing that will hold you up and for that price I'm tempted! And if you want a fancier body later on you don't have to change lenses.

You are right about the brands being better with their own lenses. They work with each other's, but I dunno why you'd actually purchase a mixture given the niggly issues. So the range of lenses available would be a factor for me - but as an Oly fanboi I've never looked at Panny's offerings 🙂

I still think IS is handy even with fast lenses. No matter how fast your lens there are always situations where there's not enough light.

I am only kidding, I had done a lot of reading, but was put off the olympus by the fact that having decided on a pancake lens, the price of eq olympus spec to what the lumix offers was scary. It would have cost more than a gx1. I did wonder about the stabilisation, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I am going to learn to use this one properly and at the end of a couple of years, if it is scrap, better a £250 camera than a £5-600

Your camera won't be scrap! The presence of better cameras doesn't make any camera worse. It'll still take the same (lovely) pictures.

molgrips - Member
Your camera won't be scrap! The presence of better cameras doesn't make any camera worse. It'll still take the same (lovely) pictures.

Posted 10 minutes ago # Report-Post

You haven't seen how bady I ride a bike... 😀

If anyone's interested, I am thinking of selling the Panasonic G-1, body only, for 100 (about what they go for on ebay, so we all save the PayPal tax), posted (TNT) ....

molgrips - Member
So.. lots of people mentioning Panasonic here - why go for them over Olympus?

For me, it about the lenses and Panasonic use Leica optics.

Olympus use Olympus optics though, they are highly regarded.

Panasonic use Leica [u]designed[/u] optics in one lens (25mm f1.4) and this is sold as Leica certified. I think Leica have input into some of the others but they are Panasonic designs and Panasonic build them all. This isn't to knock them though. I love my 20mm f1.7 and that is Panasonic all the way.

And Olympus aren't to be sniffed at in terms of lenses given their history of photography, microscopy and medical optics.

I would prefer a 17mm like the Oly for my walk-around prime lens, to be honest. I bought the full-sized 4/3 pancake for my E-600 which is a 25mm, but it's not quite wide enough really.

I think even the Panasonic lenses not branded as Leica are basically Leica designs, could be wrong though.

The 17mm Olympus isnt really fast enough for my liking compared to the 20mm 1.7.

The Olympus 45 1.8 looks very nice though.

And the G1 offered up there is a cracking camera for £100.

I think if you are serious about m43 then the Pana 20mm f1.7 and Oly 45mm f1.8 are must have primes.

The Pana 25mm f1.4 is slightly better than the 20mm but not enough to justify the price difference to my wallet (or photog skills).

As far as I am aware Leica had "input" into the design of Panasonic lenses. What this entailed is something I've never seen explained.

Molgrips - if you are a serious 17mm fan have you seen the new [url= http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02/08/Cosina_Voigtlander_17p5mm_F0p95 ]Voigtlander[/url]? Not cheap by any stretch of the imagination though.

For me, it about the lenses and Panasonic use Leica optics.

better off looking at MTF charts and image samples than trusting a half baked notion of boutique brand as an arbiter of image quality.

zeiss for example have a lot of their lenses made by cosina in japan, just because it says zeiss on the lens barrel doesn't mean it's made by herman the german with teutonic precision.

better off looking at MTF charts

Yes, to a point. But you have to know how to interpret the things, particularly from the point of view of what you want to achieve. And even then you only have part of the picture.

Historically Zeiss designed their lenses for maximum resolution, while Leica designed for maximum contrast. Both manufacturers perform very well in MTF tests and produce "sharp" images to the eye but in different ways and give the classic clinical Zeiss or gentle Leica look.

Ultimately, going further than Mr Smith suggets, the [u]only[/u] way to know if a lens is good for you is to try it on your camera. A lot of what makes a good or bad lens is in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder. Might be a faff but if you are going to drop £500 on a lens I'd want to know it was what I wanted it to be!

Shack - hehehe.. my strategy for camera stuff is as wide a range of different options for as little money as possible. I doubt I've spent that much money on all my lenses!

Plus it's massive. I am into Oly because I like small and light 🙂

Plus plus it's m4/3 and I have 4/3

You won't be disappointed Duckman with the GF3 + 14mm combo. I got the sane last week to replace my LX3 very pleased so far. Lack of buttons are no problem not even with gloves on as the touch screen is very well executed. Flash is not a problem with the 14mm pancake only the kit zoom.

Don't really see why image stabilisation is a must! If a fast f2.5 lens......

Picture quality is no better than the lx3 at base iso (but why would it be as there is lots of available light) but stonkingly good at higher iso (better than my d80 slr). Would not hesitate to use iso800. Image quality is very very good anybody who bitches about it are either looking at images at 250% magnifaction or missing the point.

It really is pocketable.

Amazing price and free lightroom 3 too.

You cannot go wrong.

Panasonic are super quick with the cashback - already payed out. Make sure you find the 3 years free warranty form too.

Don't really see why image stabilisation is a must!

I wouldn't say it's a must, but it's very useful. You might have a fast lens, but there's always room for more light and a longer exposure. f2.5 isn't that fast anyway. Plus, that's a prime - IS is great for zooms too. I can happily hand hold my 300mm f5.6 for instance in overcast conditions.

Molgrips - I try to avoid spending money as well. I was trying to generalise. I have a habit of using manual focus F and FD mount Nikon and Canon lenses. 35mm f2.0 and 50mm f1.4 each availiable for under £100 works out as very fast 70mm and 100mm equiv lenses on a m43.

Manual focus - yeah.. there are some nice cheap old lenses out there but manual focus is just too difficult for me. I'd install a split circle prism but they are available for every Oly DSLR apart from mine.

I've shopped well for lenses I think.

Olympus 40-150mm £99 new
Olympus 70-300mm £250 ish new (this was rash)
Olympus 35mm macro £130 used
Olympus 25mm pancake £120 used
Sigma 30mm f1.4 about £160 used (a steal)
Olympus 8mm fisheye about £160 again used (another steal)
Olympus 9-18mm £250 used (costly, but these things are going for big bucks still)

Most of those are bought in the US mind which helps 🙂

GX1 + 20mm F1.7

Shoot's as good photos as the G3, if not better due to updated processing....in a package half the size.

Err...Molgrips, thats £1300 worth of lens...define spending a lot on lenses...

Yeah but that's an average of less than £200 🙂

EDIT: **** me I never added it up before... 😳 Still, the camera was only £300 so all that is still about the cost of a Canon 5D.

Err...Molgrips, thats £1300 worth of lens...define spending a lot on lenses...

that just about gets you most of the way towards 1 decent lens... 🙄

I'd far rather have 7 reasonable ones of all different types that one 'decent' one!

F2.5 cannot be considered slow - it's faster than every kit zooms and pretty much every other lens with the word zoom on the market.

And to get that pancake with a m43 camera for less than £200 is the bargain of the year.....

esp when you compare it to what £200 gets you with small sensor compacts!

going to add, if you have one of these cameras with 14mm lens, the Lowepro Santiago DV 35 fits my EPM1 with 14mm perfectly and provides semi-solid crash protection and fits perfectly in the side pocket of my dakine nomad, I can be taking pictures in a few seconds without even removing my backpack.

[img] [/img]

OTOH with my mju tough I don't even have to stop to take a picture 🙂

Image quality's not as good though!

really? no way!

rs - Lowepro Santiago DV 35

Where did you buy this from?
Just googled it with not much luck in the UK?

ah, sorry i'm in canada, maybe you can get one from ebay or something.

can i add the sony Nex 5n to the mix.

the nice thing about the sony, it the amount of cheap lens adpaters available, which makes a whole host of cheap quality lens available.

Minota 50mm 1.7 prime lens for £15, awesome PQ. adapter £10.

The sony has focus peaking, which displays a red line/dots over high contrast pixels, so manual focus is very easy. plus with the touch screen, you can digitally zoom while focusing too.

cheap lens and a good kit lens, means most situations are covered. plus able to play with old lenses for different pic's. On the hunt of a cheap macro now 😀

the nice thing about the sony, it the amount of cheap lens adpaters available, which makes a whole host of cheap quality lens available

Same for m4/3 isn't it?

Indeed it is Mr grips. I have Canon FD and Nikon F mount adapters sat in front of me now. I've also seen adapters for Pentax, Minolta, in fact pretty much any DSLR fitting available.

molgrips - Member
Yeah but that's an average of less than £200

EDIT: **** me I never added it up before... Still, the camera was only £300 so all that is still about the cost of a Canon 5D.

Posted 16 hours ago # Report-Post

Based on that, I took a look at Mrs Duck's lens collection for her Canon eos...I may be having a chat...