You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Twin Year 1 girls on a school trip today and we found out last night that the class are being split into 4 groups (which is fine, totally understandable) however, one of our girls has been put into a group containing none of her friends and all the others in the group are boys too. Every other group has an equal split of boys and girls and everyone else is placed in a group with at least one or two friends.
She had been really looking forward to it al week but then last night she was in tears for hours and didn't want to go.
I have just found out this morning that the school have refused to move another girl into her group (even though it is the smallest group so it wouldn't be a problem to put one extra person in it).
Leave it. It might not be ideal but life isn't always ideal and there's an important lesson in that. Certainly more important than thinking tears and an angry dad will get stuff changed to the way you want it.
No offence but if this is the worst thing the school have done, you are lucky.
They cant please everybody all the time. No doubt by the time your daughter gets back she will have completely forgotten about her worries and made some new friends.
They are a school. They have experience of this kind of thing. Just get over it.
My eldest got separated from all her friends when they went from reception to year one. I wasn't happy at the time but I just have to leave them to do what they do best. The world still carried on turning. She made new friends.
So no-one thinks it is a bit unfair to put one girl in with a group of boys (which does, incidentally, include one boy who is a trouble-causer and is known for bullying and hitting girls)?
I will see how she is tonight – if she enjoyed herself I will leave it.
I will see how she is tonight – if she enjoyed herself I will leave it.
I think this is the best approach.
The school staff may end up reconfguring the groups during the trip if they think it would be better for them to be changed.
Speaking a someone who has been on a number of school trips as an adult (as a parent and governor at the school) the staff want everyone (including themselves) to have a good time on the trip and wouldn't do anything that would result in unnecessary hassle for themselves or anyone else.
no and I wouldnt interfere. Because it would have a negative imapct on my children by undermining their trust in the teachers or by constantly contacing them on a simple trip showing I lack confidence in them and the teachers.
got three children
Rather odd, but it sounds like it's been done deliberately.
Or does your daughter have a gender-neutral name?
hooli has it.
Speaking a someone who has been on a number of school trips as an adult (as a parent and governor at the school) the staff want everyone (including themselves) to have a good time on the trip and wouldn't do anything that would result in unnecessary hassle for themselves or anyone else.
well said, my experience too. The teachers and parent helpers are, I'm sure, doing their best
OP
Just take the day off work and follow them,just to be sure everything goes ok.
What could possibly go wrong ?
Just take the day off work and follow them,just to be sure everything goes ok.
The teachers and parent helpers are, I'm sure, doing their best
Well my wife is actually a helper on the trip as she always does (as a leader of one of the groups - one with neither of our girls in) so she will ensure that Evie is okay.
I do find it an odd decision - everything else makes sense – they have split up our girls' friendship group so they don't just mess all day and will interact with other less close friends but to isolate the one girl seems really weird.
to isolate the one girl seems really weird.
unless she is the trouble maker perhaps? 😉
to isolate the one girl seems really weird.
unless she is the trouble maker perhaps? 😉
unless she is the trouble maker perhaps?
Nah.
I hope.
smaller group? mostly boys? one of whom such a trouble maker even a parent knows his reputation? Sounds like the sin bin group for close supervision by a disciplinarian teacher.
Sounds like the sin bin group
It does a bit (especially as the group she is in is the one being headed by a teaching assistant (and the others are all parents). Nothing has ever been said to us though, so if that is the reason I am even more disappointed in the school.
If that is all you worry about for your school, fantastic. You would not believe the madness I hear about from parents.
I've found out today, that even though I have a child who hasn't paid all year, we can't simply kick him out due to strong education laws, we instead have to sue the family.
Madness.
The university of life and experience is an amazing place.
Let her study there and make her own mind up about the trip.
Changing will only make her look like a spoilt little brat that gets her own way when she wants and gets daddy to shout at the naughty teachers when she doesn't like something (I'm sure she's not).
Changing will only make her look like a spoilt little brat that gets her own way when she wants and gets daddy to shout at the naughty teachers when she doesn't like something (I'm sure she's not).
But I don't see it like that – had she taken the huff just because she wasn't placed with her best friend then I would have told her to accept it and get on with it. But I agree with her that it is unfair that every other group has three or four girls in it whereas she is placed in a group of boys (none of which she is even friends with).
Can't remember the school ever telling us which groups our kids were going to be split into on trips. Don't see why they'd bother TBH. Currently have three kids ages 4-12.
TBH i don't think an email to school to ask how they divide the pupils up for these sort of things is bad form. I think it shows you're taking an interest, just don't get all shouty with them as they probably haven't even realised there could be an issue.
Can't remember the school ever telling us which groups our kids were going to be split into on trips.
We know because (as I mentioned above) my wife is a leader of one of the groups so she got the info sheet about the trip.
And I wouldn't get shouty, but I do still feel I should register my disagreement with their choices.
It sounds like a 'mixed' school to me. If you are so irked about your daughter being in a group with boys, maybe you should have sent her to a girls school...?
I am 'irked' as you put it because she feels she is being singled out. No school should be making any pupil feel they are being singled out without good reason (and they have not provided a good reason for their decision).
In their defence, the teacher is in her first year (and I have never been happy with her performance ) so I think that she simply didn't think it through properly and couldn't back-track when asked because she had already told the parent of another child that she couldn't swap groups (but that was only because she wanted to be with her best friend).
So you know better than the school? Great. I'll bet they love you. Stop being so precious and let her get on with it. Sounds like she'll deal with it better than you.
I'll bet they were all sitting round in the staff room the day before plotting and laughing their heads off about how they were going to victimise your daughter for no apparent reason.
I have two girls aged 5 and 9, if they were in the same position I'd tell them to get stuck in and enjoy it.
I spent last night in part listening to the early years head explain how much effort was put into allocating kids to classes , given the info you provide I imagine your daughter was allocated for a reason . I would not complain but would just gently enquire they may give a reason or a face saving "oh it was just random" don't push it past that trust them to have a reason and it be apropriate . At the same event a bloke asked me who I was as my face seemed familiar I just said " oh I get about a fair bit lots of people seem to recognise me" kinder I thought than saying in front of his partner friends and sons teachers "yes I represented you in court 6 years ago."
im positive its not been done deliberately to upset your daughter. but maybe its a good opportunity to teach her to get on with everyone or at least reinforce that sentiment because i don't doubt that you do that already.
hope she's had fun. toppers jnr is at the zoo today with school. its either been a total car crash or he's been an angel. its rarely anything in-between. 😀
You sound like a lovely person loddrik, he's only asking a bloody question about whether to ask the school about it. What's wrong with that?
Ask away I say, see what they come back with, if her name is zelda it might just be that she was last on this list and had to be put somewhere........
[i]You sound like a lovely person loddrik, he's only asking a bloody question about whether to ask the school about it. What's wrong with that?[/i]
Indeed, my thoughts exactly! I have had a lot of experience with schools over the years and they are not always right. Sometimes you bite your lip and give them the benefit of the doubt (perhaps this time) but you don't allow your children to be scarred by 'kin idiots who sometimes should know better.
I am 'irked' as you put it as she feels she is being singled out
I tried to be gentle above but it seems I was too subtle. When you say singled out, you mean she gets to go on an interesting and educational trip (probably funded or at least partly funded by the school) with a group of other kids in her class.
You know, children of the same age with feelings and parents and stuff. They are not axe wielding, ebola carrying, serial killer paedophiles.
Lift your head up and have a bit of perspective, this really isn't something worth worrying about. It is certainly not something to give the school a hard time about. All the time teachers spend dealing with non issues like this is time they could be dealing with real issues.
School or Academy?
Surely if your wife is helping out, she would be the best person to approach this subject with the person who was responsible for group allocations.
IMO....get over it. Mollycoddling them at any age is bad but getting them moved groups due to a bit of emotional blackmail at home isn't great.
See how the trip goes, if the reports coming back say there were major issues with any certain groups etc then it may be time to bring up the subject but I'd hazard a guess she'll forget about it all when they arrive at the destination.
If I'd give you any advice, its 'choose your battles'
If you're getting this worked up about something as minor as this in year 1, then the rest of your offsprings school career is going to be a constant source of stress and potential conflict for you.
Believe me, you're going to have a lot bigger fish to fry than this in the years to come. Real issues. About their actual education. I'd keep your powder dry on this one. Take it on the chin. Seriously... whats the worst thats going to happen? You'd be better received when you have something genuine to take up with them if you don't start kicking up a stink over something that the staff will see as a trivial matter.
If she didn't enjoy the day, extra pudding when she gets home?
Something to console her with:
"If you hate school, wait til you try [i]work[/i]!"
😀
Right, well I am ignoring Lodrick and his not so helpful attitude.
But
Surely if your wife is helping out, she would be the best person to approach this subject with the person who was responsible for group allocations.
She did ask this morning and was told the group wouldn't be changed. I don't know any more yet as she is still on the trip and there are no phones allowed.
As I have already said, I will wait and see how things went – despite what some people are thinking, I am a reasonable person asking what I believe to be a reasonable question. I am not about to go into the school shouting and swearing, but at the moment I still feel like we deserve a reason behind their decision to isolate one girl in a group of boys that she doesn't get on with. They didn't even put any of her boy friends in the group.
Can't see a problem with asking for a reason. Especially if the answer looks like it's because she's more of a trouble maker that you thought.
If you open saying you're concerned it's because she might be behaving worse at school than she does at home, I can't how they could possibly have a problem confirming or setting you straight.
She did ask this morning and was told the group wouldn't be changed.
I believe the question to ask is along the line of "I wondered how the groups had been allocated?", the above answer suggests a different questions of "can my daughter move groups?".
But really, Binners' point is the right one, pick your battles. It will not have been done to annoy you/your daughter, teachers won't do that deliberately, it will either be completely random or there is a reason for the allocation. There will undoubtedly be bigger battles to face, this is not one to get upset about.
I believe the question to ask is along the line of "I wondered how the groups had been allocated?", the above answer suggests a different questions of "can my daughter move groups?".
I have no idea what my wife actually said as (as I have said) she is a helper on the trip and phones aren't allowed. She may well have asked along the lines of what you suggest – she is very tactful like that (works in another school herself so has some experience).
As many others have said don't worry about this.
If you go looking for a reason 'why' she's been grouped this way, chances are there isn't one.
I suspect this (possibly newly qualified) teacher at about 19:47 on a Monday night with her many things to do just took a breather between marking books, planning lessons, updating her mark sheet, starting to write end of year reports, working on an attempt of an outstanding lesson plan for an observation next week and maybe squeezing a bit of dinner to take a class list of her pupils and split them up into fairly random groups. She probably will have spent a bit of time strategically placing the trouble makers, the EAL and SEN kids.
If she starts letting people move then everyone will want to move or start calling its unfair. She's trying to do the right thing by sticking to her decision not to let anyone change groups.
Maybe when you next pick her up from school politely mention that your daughter was looking forward to the trip, but would have enjoyed it more if she'd been in a group with an even mix of boys and girls or all girls and ideally with some of her friends.
We know because (as I mentioned above) my wife is a leader of one of the groups so she got the info sheet about the trip.
Let her sort it out. Or do what I would do and just leave it well alone.
probably funded or at least partly funded by the school
That one always makes me laugh.
smatkins1, someone who understands the wonderful world of the NQT.
If it helps, said NQT will likely be having a small end of term breakdown as she realises half her class haven't gone up the required levels and she still has all of her end of year reports to write along with her final observation lessons that will determine if she passes the year. She'll have stressed for 2 days about the make up of the groups as pretty much every NQT stresses about every tiny detail (I know 3 who lost sleep and shed tears of what to call their tables) and then when she finally thinks they're right someone will ask to move as little Jonny doesn't like little Sarah. She will go home and cry.
then they are in the wrong job if they cry over that.
IMHO this seems like a less than ideal solution and a fairly inflexible approach from the school. Its not the end of the world but , depending in her reaction tonight, I suspect I would be speaking to the school.
Hope all the kids get a PUDDING....
She will go home and cry.
But it is okay for a 6 year old to be in tears from leaving school to going to bed and being left not wanting to go on the school trip to the Toy Museum that she had been excited about all week before she found out she was going to be isolated from her friends and any other girls?
its not ideal but it is not life changing either. Hence the spectrum of opinion
IMHO this seems like a less than ideal solution and a fairly inflexible approach from the school.
Why? They may well have perfectly good reasons behind why they did it, perhaps reasons they don't particularly want to share but perfectly good ones none the less. I struggle to see how speaking to the teacher after the event will gain any kind of positive outcome for child, parent, teacher or school.
Edit.
But it is okay for a 6 year old to be in tears from leaving school to going to bed and being left not wanting to go on the school trip to the Toy Museum that she had been excited about all week before she found out she was going to be isolated from her friends and any other girls?
It's certainly not ideal but as I said, there may well be reasons you and she do not know off. So yes, it is OK, not ideal, not good, but it is OK.
perhaps reasons they don't particularly want to share
I don't believe that a school should take that approach to their decision-making – they should be accountable for their decisions and therefore I should feel I am able to ask the question should I wish to.
I struggle to see how speaking to the teacher after the event will gain any kind of positive outcome for child, parent, teacher or school.
Err, because I want to understand why they made such a strange decision that lead to hours of crying from a six year old child and probably spoiled her enjoyment of the day.
perhaps reasons they don't particularly want to share but perfectly good ones none the less.
A yes the old it's none of your business answer 🙄
TBH I'm with Binners on this one. IN the whole scheme of things its annoying but not a big deal, there will be greater battles to come.
Err, because I want to understand why they made such a strange decision that lead to hours of crying from a six year old child and probably spoiled her enjoyment of the day.
As I understand it the information was shared with your wife, one of the helpers. It wasn't meant to be shared with the children in question. If the kids had been split into groups, in a seemingly random way, at the venue, would your daughter have been upset all day? Or would she have just carried on enjoying, the way that 6 year olds tend to?
By telling your daughter the day before that she had been split from her friends you have caused the tears.
Sorry johndoh, that ^^ sounds a lot more confrontational than I mean but I'll leave it in that form.. 😉
As I understand it the information was shared with your wife, one of the helpers.
I am not aware that they have given a reason for the decision (although when I see my wife tonight I will find out). From what I understand, all they did was refuse to change the groups.
By telling your daughter the day before that she had been split from her friends you have caused the tears.
I didn't, I believe they were told at school as she left the classroom crying yesterday afternoon.
ScottChegg - Member
probably funded or at least partly funded by the school
That one always makes me laugh.
Do you want to share the joke?
I didn't, I believe they were told at school as she left the classroom crying yesterday afternoon
Ah fair enough then. Ignore me.
Do you want to share the joke?
I don't think you'd get it.
As others have said, suck it up - it isn't the end of the world.
it isn't the end of the world
I know it's not, it just seemed a very odd decision and a large part of me wants to understand WHY.
Posts like this make me realise how desperately SAD todays parents are ...
I have little sympathy - you cant wrap them in cotton wool forever and a valuable lesson could be learned , by you as well , that sometimes you cant have it all your own way . The school made a decision regarding the groups , they are IN CHARGE of your child whether you like it or not .
Wifey is on the trip FFS , poor lamb isn't going to out on a limb is she ??
Get a life mate - I mean - really ...
WERE annoyed with OUR school , says it all 🙄
Err, because I want to understand why they made such a strange decision that lead to hours of crying from a six year old child and probably spoiled her enjoyment of the day.
I understand that, but I still don't see a positive outcome for anyone. Your daughter still isn't with her friends, you may get an answer you don't like and get more annoyed, the school gets increased scrutiny on a subject that really isn't that important and the teacher feels undermined. So who wins?
I don't believe that a school should take that approach to their decision-making – they should be accountable for their decisions and therefore I should feel I am able to ask the question should I wish to.
I'd agree if, when the school gave an answer that was fair but perhaps not to everyone's liking, it was accepted. But generally it's not, it's attacked, often with little understanding of the reasons behind it despite the schools best efforts to explain. Parents often see things, understandably, from only the perspective of their kids, a schools jobs is to see it from the entire class. That can often upset people.
and a valuable lesson could be learned
What valuable lesson is learned by isolating one six year old child in a year group when all others get to be with friends?
See how your daughter dealt with it today - if she was Ok and had no problems, it is a non-issue.
If it didn't go well, you are perfectly entitled to ask why the groups were split as they were [b][i]IF[/i][/b] it spoilt her trip. But just ask and let them explain their reasons.
When MCJnr was in early years, every June/July we ended up with some similar problems - not just us, other parents as well, not always minor, some fairly bizarre year group splits that the head and/or the governors tried to set up. The head would get very stroppy when questioned, but a lot of decisions got reviewed and changed.
I think the summer term is so busy with trips, activities, planning for the new school years and new intake, that sometimes simple things like this get overlooked by the school. They are only human, like all of us.
If they were all daaarn't pit at six, like in the good old days, this wouldn't be a problem
What valuable lesson is learned by isolating one six year old child in a year group when all others get to be with friends?
Life's a bitch
sometimes you've got to do stuff you don't want to do
I can understand why your daughter would be upset, but surely it's up to you, as a parent to tell her she needs to accept it, and be brave? that's certainly what i would be telling my kids.
I know my oldest was intentionally put in a different class to his best mate, because they always just played with each other, and no one else. Now he's got a bunch of friends, but there were tears the first few days.
We know because (as I mentioned above) my wife is a leader of one of the groups so she got the info sheet about the trip.
Has your wife shared this info with other parents to enable them to choose which group their kids go in? Fair's fair.
It all sounds like a fuss over nothing.
I'm glad I'm not a teacher, I'd get the sack.
warton - Member
What valuable lesson is learned by isolating one six year old child in a year group when all others get to be with friends?
Life's a bitch
sometimes you've got to do stuff you don't want to do
If she came home crying because she found out that she was with girls A, B & C rather than girls X, Y & Z you'd have a point but making her the one child to be alone on a trip is a pretty crappy place for her to be, especially as (and the teacher knows and has expressed her concern before) she does sometimes get marginalised by her friendship group because she doesn't always have very good social skills.
I know my oldest was intentionally put in a different class to his best mate, because they always just played with each other, and no one else.
That is very different - and we have supported the school in their decision to break up our girls' friendship group next year for similar reasons.
lasty - MemberPosts like this make me realise how desperately SAD todays parents are ...
I have little sympathy - you cant wrap them in cotton wool forever and a valuable lesson could be learned , by you as well , that sometimes you cant have it all your own way . The school made a decision regarding the groups , they are IN CHARGE of your child whether you like it or not .
Wifey is on the trip FFS , poor lamb isn't going to out on a limb is she ??
Get a life mate - I mean - really ...WERE not happy with OUR school , says it all
Wrap them in cotton wool forever? Clucking bell, she's 6. 😆
Sounds like you're daughter has laready been wrapped up in too much cotton wool and has little princess tendencies. My 4yr old daughter had something similar happen lately, she just got on with it.
^^^^ My 4yr old daughter had something similar happen lately, she just got on with it. ^^^^
As would most kids to be honest - it all goes wrong when the parents get involved and make a drama out of nothing ....
[i]I know it's not, it just seemed a very odd decision and a large part of me wants to understand WHY.[/i]
Let it go, if this kind of stuff is going to send you into a tail spin, and they're in yr1. School is going to stress you out waaaay too much.
😆
Not really in a tailspin, just disappointed in the school. I think many of you are actually over-estimating wildly the level of anger/frustration I am feeling.
[i]Annoyed with our school - leave it or complain?[/i]
most (if not all) have been in the leave it camp? If even you're not all that bothered then hopefully all that's happened is your daughter had a great day 😀
Are they back yet?
That's what I was wondering... I also finally realised that "leave it" referred to the problem, not the actual school...
Binners +1 I think.
But it is okay for a 6 year old to be in tears from leaving school to going to bed and being left not wanting to go on the school trip to the Toy Museum that she had been excited about all week
This is quite a big reaction to the situation. Might be worth checking nothing else is worrying her ? Also worth seeing if maybe she needs some help from you regarding resilience - ways to manage her concerns/worries.
Not really in a tailspin, just disappointed in the school. I think many of you are actually over-estimating wildly the level of anger/frustration I am feeling.
Not being intentionally challenging here but as you started a thread about it, I assumed it must be troubling you to a reasonable degree.
BTW - dad of 3 here who is often annoyed by school management and it is worrying sometimes. Hope your daughter had a good day too!
Friendship groups are evil (especially amongst girls) and need to be split at every opportunity or cliques quickly develop. Then one day your children find themselves on the outside of the clique and can't cope.
To me, independence is one of the best things to teach your children.
School teachers put a ridiculous amount of consideration into social groupings. They get it right way more than they get it wrong.
If any of my kids were upset by this type of situation then I would have asked them to KTFU, but then they are fairly resilient.
Don't be THAT Parent...
She may also learn that actually 6yo boys are pretty cool to be friends with. Bugs me that kids are already dividing themselves in two gender camps at an age when it should make absolutely no difference.
Not every day is a perfect day. Kids will be happier if they can get on with a range of people. No challenges means no growth.
+1 Don't be that parent.
Not being picky, however it sounds like you're being the parent who takes any chance to be critical based on other issues!
(and I have never been happy with her performance)
This is a non-issue that will serve no long term benefit, it's not worth the effort.