You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
No, I definitely dont get it. But that's just me I guess.
I don't think women understand the rules less or would be more prone to mistakes, I just don't think they should be officiating in the first place.
Junkyard, you can take anything to be whatever it is, do you think it really makes a difference...
It was a comment made off air - it might not make him a particularly great bloke but everyone is entitled to a personal opinion stated in private.
no it was made whilst he was miked up and audiable to everyone in the studio and editing room
if you said that in front of a load of people at your work theyd be entitled to report you to HR if like andy you already had prior complaints against you
(and you were suing the parent organisation for hacking your phone
and your boss was trying to look really good as he was trying to cement his monopoly on uk media)
i think your days would be numbered too
There is a very large number of intolerent people on this forum.
Surely intolerance works both ways. Funny that....
I keep hearing that this 'incident' was caught on an off-air microphone.
Does this mean that it was never actually aired, but picked up by someone 'on the inside' & bought to everyone's attention via that route, rather than being blared out of TV speakers across the nation?
If it was the former, then I do think it's a bit of an ott reaction to something that should never have made it into the public domain in the first place. And how do these things get into the public domain? Is someone constantly listening waiting for a slip-up?
I just don't think they should be officiating in the first place.
Now that IS odd. You might be able to understand it, but we don't like ladies here...
or would be more prone to mistakes
I assume therefore that you would have a problem with a female surgeon too. Afterall that is a "high pressure" situation and maybe their pretty little brains wouldn't be able to cope.
But I certainly don't think women should be officiating premier league matches.
Why?
I hate these pathetic knee jerk reactions to appease a few liberal minded whiners.
Liberally thinking would suggest being open to consider all directions and make judgement accordingly, being narrow minded would imply poorly-based miopic viewpoints based on stupid thought. I'd suggest the liberal minded people "whining" have the sensible high ground here.
I assume therefore that you would have a problem with a female surgeon too. Afterall that is a "high pressure" situation and maybe their pretty little brains wouldn't be able to cope.
Sighs... 🙄
Nevermind the rolling eyes. I presume that the reason why you think women shouldn't officiate is due to a preceived lack of ability to handle pressure. Yes?
Did anyone else see his 'other' incident? That would have been the catalyst for his sacking. The people around him were cringing.
Not looking great for Keys either:
loddrik - Member
Surely intolerance works both ways. Funny that....
Woosh.
There is no Human Right not to be offended. People are entitled to what ever opinion they wish to hold. They are also entitled to express it.
Not looking great for Keys either:
I hate the term 'it' when talking about women. More often than not it's used by blokes that haven't got a clue, noticed all the others aren't at all interested in what he's saying.
Maybe there has been complaints about their behaviour before?
lads banter. end of really.
I just downloaded an update for FIFA 11 on the xbox with new commentary pack. It's very realistic, my mrs walked in and Andy Gray told her to get her pretty little ass back in the kitchen.
Wunundred!
I just don't think they should be officiating in the first place.
Yeah we kind of gathered that. But you've yet to provide a coherent argument why you think that...
Oh, and Trailmonkey; looks like you need that shovel more than me, sunshine. 😉
Yeah we kind of gathered that. But you've yet to provide a coherent argument why you think that...
I do get the impression here that the only argument as to why a woman can't officiate are the ones that use 'humour' not any real world arguments.
How about we ban anyone Asians/Blacks/Muslims/Catholics from football officialdom while we're at....
People are entitled to what ever opinion they wish to hold. They are also entitled to express it.
Really?
Andy you are the weakest link..............Goodbye 😉
Andy you are the [s]weakest[/s] missing link..............Goodbye
FTFY... 🙂
j_me - Member
Really?
Yes, as long as it is not inciting people to commit violence in support of it.
Again, you have no Human Right not to be offended.
Married - For how much longer?
I was thinking much the same thing.
<off to trawl mumsnet to find somebody complaining about their misogynistic mountain biking husband>
j_me - MemberPeople are entitled to what ever opinion they wish to hold. They are also entitled to express it.
Really?
Yes - but they may have to get tehir own platoform.
You can be as racist as you like - but the people who controlt he space you use can ask you to leave because of it
/Andy Gray wants to spout sexist drivel on telly he can set up his own TV channel top do so. Sky does not have to let him use theirs.
I'm still waiting for the morally outraged minority to cry out over the 'pikey' thread. Or is that ok because, well, they are pikeys....
Dont let hypocrisy raise it's ugly head....
/Andy Gray wants to spout sexist drivel on telly he can set up his own TV channel top do so. Sky does not have to let him use theirs
He's not [i]wanting[/i] to express this through the medium of TV. These comments were made off-air directly to individual(s).
Sky have made the decision to air these / make them public.
Dont let hypocrisy raise it's ugly head....
Very true.
I do get the impression here that the only argument as to why a woman can't officiate are the ones that use 'humour' not any real world arguments.How about we ban anyone Asians/Blacks/Muslims/ [b]Catholics[/b] from football officialdom while we're at....
That kind of suggestion might get you headhunted by the Scottish Football Association. Seems to work for them!
It doesn't matter if the comments were off air, they were made in a workplace - it is (or at least should be) unacceptable in the workplace to talk like that.
Expect Keys To get the sack tomorrow over the latest [url= http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/fourfourtwoview/archive/2011/01/25/keys-in-hot-water-after-another-video-is-leaked-online.aspx ]video[/url].
I only found out about this & am totally gutted Andy Gray is the best pundit there has ever been, I also think Richard Keys is excellent at what he does.
Sky will have a hard job replacing either of them, more so Gray, he was brilliant at what he did, he probably had the best job in football.
There appear to be a few who disliked Gray here & I'm shocked, you guys are the first people I have ever heard say they disliked him. If you want a complete nob, then listen to Alan Hansen.
I reckon that there comments were just banter, which goes on all the time everywhere & nothing to get wound up about, I would consider cancelling my Sky in protest to his sacking, like a poster above, but I'd miss it too much.
Have any of you actually watched the video that prompted his sacking?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9373280.stm
I think most people would be in pretty serious trouble for asking a female co-worker to tuck thier shirt and gestering in the way he does. To do that in front of a studio full of people and on camera whether on air or not is pretty stupid!
I only found out about this & am totally gutted Andy Gray is the best pundit there has ever beenIf you want a complete nob, then listen to Alan Hansen.
Are you a Bitter Everton fan, by any chance? 😆
I only found out about this & am totally gutted Andy Gray is the best pundit there has ever been, I also think Richard Keys is excellent at what he does.
Really?
I went and watched Dunfermline play Dundee a couple of years back in Dundee. I know, my brother is a Pars fan and he needed an adult escort !
Anyhoo the linesperson that day was a lady. Not something you see very often and we were impressed with her display. All around me though it became very apparent that the 90's and 00's had failed to catch up with East fife as the language and barrage of abuse aimed at her was insane. Honestly, it was really incredible and i was quite sad by the end of it because this was a cross section of the human race who all voiced the same opinion that this poor girl should not be doing that job. We left, nothing to do with them running out of pies at all. I thought it was disgusting.
It doesn't matter if the comments were off air, they were made in a workplace - it is (or at least should be) unacceptable in the workplace to talk like that.
Yes they were made in a work place. To an individual. Did that individual complain about them?
I can guarantee that everybody, at somepoint, has said something / acted in a manner in the workplace they shouldn't have.
Sky could have dealt with this by simply dismissing the offending party if the collective incidents deemed this appropriate. Instead, Sky decided to publish the incidents into the public domain. Now that is something to get annoyed about.
That's an intent of a company to manipulate a situation rather than an out dated attitude of an individual.
I only found out about this & am totally gutted Andy Gray is the best pundit there has ever been
If you want a complete nob, then listen to Alan Hansen.Are you a Bitter Everton fan, by any chance?
No chance.
I only found out about this & am totally gutted Andy Gray is the best pundit there has ever been, I also think Richard Keys is excellent at what he does.Really?
Yes, name me a better pundit.
Yes, name me a better pundit.
James Richardson.
Yes, name me a better pundit.
Simple: Anyone but Andy Gray. 🙂
es, name me a better pundit.
James Richardson.
Google is my friend
I didn't think anyone liked football on here?
snakebite - Member
lads banter. end of really.
I see when someone finally hits the nail on the head it get's completely overlooked ^^^
God help any of you lot actually get to a football ground and listen to some of the stuff that's spouted there. Some of it is offensive, the majority of it is just blokes being blokes - maybe in a slightly neanderthal way, but FFS, come on.
I do all my footy watching at a Championship level, so we don't get the cream of the officials and some of the decision making goes beyond bizarre. Some of the very worst displays do actually come from female lines[s]men[/s]persons - however, this is just an observation and by no means a definitive conclusion. Elfin will no doubt be along in a minute to tell me that I only noticed they were crap, because they were female.
Elfin will no doubt be along in a minute to tell me that I only noticed they were crap, because they were female.
Nah. You've already figured that out for yourself.
Loddrik, you seem to be flailing around here, and defending yourself on the basis that:
(1) [b]It's all a bit of banter[/b]
whether or not this is the case, just ask yourself this: if your wife had passed all the qualifications to be able to run the line, would you be upset at hearing Andy Gray being so disparaging about her? Or would you think that it was tremendously amusing?
(2) [b]OK, it's an -ism, but this forum is very selective on what it deems acceptable[/b]
To some extent I agree with you, hence why I was very vocal on the Elton John thread (note that very few people criticised Nicole Kidman), but the principle of two wrongs not making a right holds true. You look a bit stupid at the moment, to be honest.
Your privilege, obviously, but considering that women died for the right to vote and thus be treated as equals, have a bit more respect, eh?
0Your privilege, obviously, but considering that women died for the right to vote and thus be treated as equals, have a bit more respect, eh?
You were doing so well up to that point, Loddrik is TROLLING
Richard Keys should stay just for his opinion of Theo Walcott. "Get up you stupid little boy, in your stupid pink boots."
My gran knows the offside rule (demonstrated at dinner last night) and I had no idea she'd ever seen a game of football.
Nickf - nah..
But thanks for your sanctimony all the same. I have my views and you have yours. I don't need to justify them to you or anyone else, nor am I going to as this thread has run its course for me.
people are entitled to what ever opinion they wish to hold. They are also entitled to express it.
TJ and mk1fan - Not always. If you happened to hold the view that the holocaust did not happen, then by law you are not entitled to express this view.
...and there we have the official thread killing invocation of Godwin's Law.
I don't need to justify them to you or anyone else, nor am I going to as this thread [s]has run its course for me.[/s] [b]could have enlightened me but I refuse to listen[/b]
FTFY
People are like pistachios - the ones that haven't opened just aren't worth opening sometimes.
EDIT: I've just seen this from ditch jokey:
...and there we have the official thread killing invocation of Godwin's Law.
And there endeth the thread.
🙂
whether or not this is the case, just ask yourself this: if your wife had passed all the qualifications to be able to run the line, would you be upset at hearing Andy Gray being so disparaging about her? Or would you think that it was tremendously amusing?
Given he's clearly a misogynist, I'd suspect the latter. I'm sure he has a good laugh with his mates down the pub at how useless his wife is.
God help any of you lot actually get to a football ground and listen to some of the stuff that's spouted there. Some of it is offensive, the majority of it is just blokes being blokes - maybe in a slightly neanderthal way, but FFS, come on.
Have you not yet worked out the difference between blokes at a football ground and people paid to commentate on it? Maybe Sky should just pull a couple of random geezers from the stands for each match now they have a vacancy - Andy Gray is now perfectly free to go and sit with all the other neanderthals.
j_me - Memberpeople are entitled to what ever opinion they wish to hold. They are also entitled to express it.
TJ and mk1fan - Not always. If you happened to hold the view that the holocaust did not happen, then by law you are not entitled to express this view.
Really? What UK law is this? What could you be prosecuted for?
TJ and mk1fan - Not always. If you happened to hold the view that the holocaust did not happen, then by law you are not entitled to express this view.
Not in this country.
BTW there is an article in the guardian today apparently quoting female staff at Sky as saying there is a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky created by Key and Gray.
Ouch there is no UK law (which I fully agree is right BTW). I was under the impression that the UK had adopted this....damn.
Apalogies to you both.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
I must google before posting.
BTW there is an article in the guardian today apparently quoting female staff at Sky as saying there is a culture of bullying and sexism at Sky created by Key and Gray.
And what good is an article going to do?
If the female employees of Sky feel they are forced (?) to work in inappropriate conditions - such that they don't meet workplace standards - then it is down to them to action the change.
Ultimately, if Sky fail to act, then the women should leave and claim unfair dismissal. There's no shortage of lawyers waiting to take a class action (or the UK equivilant). If conditions are so patently bad they'll easily win. A few hundred compensation payouts of £10k plus and Sky will soon revise working conditions.
If the UK did try and adopt the 'holocaust denial' laws from Austria I would make the effort to protest agaisnt it's adoption.
Richard Keys to go today?
[url= http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-Andy-Gray-sexism-NEW-video-Did-you-smash-it-NEW-Richard-Keys-Sky-Sports-video-sparks-ANOTHER-row-watch-it-here-article682265.html ]http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Richard-Keys-Andy-Gray-sexism-NEW-video-Did-you-smash-it-NEW-Richard-Keys-Sky-Sports-video-sparks-ANOTHER-row-watch-it-here-article682265.html[/url]
Watch the vid, even the other blokes clearly think he's a prat.
[url= http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2011/01/25/referees-join-catholic-church-in-protest-at-female-linesmen/ ]Refs to join catholic church in protest at female linesmen[/url]
[img] 
[/img]
[b]deadlydarcy - Member[/b]Elfin will no doubt be along in a minute to tell me that I only noticed they were crap, because they were female.
[b]Nah. You've already figured that out for yourself.[/b]
Oh God, yeah - thanks for pointing that out.
In fact it sometimes amazes me how I've managed to get thus far through life being so unbelievably stupid that I'm unable to make an observation without my judgement being tainted by someone's sex, or indeed, skin colour.
Have you not yet worked out the difference between blokes at a football ground and people paid to commentate on it?
aracer - it was said off camera, not to the nation. Many things that many people say could be dug up broadcast to the nation if there is an agenda. Maybe there is an underlying trend with this guy indicating that he is rather unpleasant, but if we base this conversation on what was known at the start of the thread, then jeez doesn't it epitomise the OTT attitude of this country and typically a lot of posters on here to over-react at the slightest un-PC comment?
Men take the piss out of women, and believe it or not, women are more than capable of taking the piss out of men. Had this been said about my own Mrs, I doubt I'd have the reaction of some of the saints on here.
if we base this conversation on what was known at the start of the thread, then jeez doesn't it epitomise the OTT attitude of this country and typically a lot of posters on here to over-react at the slightest un-PC comment?
As I've seen pointed out, if they were having a jokey conversation about it, it wouldn't seem that bad. But the fact that they appeared to be so deadly serious about it makes it a little more concerning. It's not really 'banter' is it.
Oh God, yeah - thanks for pointing that out.
Always happy to be of service. You said it yourself. 😛
jeez doesn't it epitomise the OTT attitude of this country and typically a lot of posters on here to over-react at the slightest un-PC comment?
no it epitomises the fact that some people still cannot embarce the modern world despite the best efforts of the pc thought police- TM anyone a bit sexist/racist/homophobic - to make them a better person and drag them into the light of enlightenment- I susspect the knuckles dragging on the floor is what is slowing your progress 😉
I dont think what they said was at all banter or humour they said it like they meant it which is far worse.
See charming Karren Brady this morning complaining about sexism? Yeah. Do me a favour love," stated Keys.
Seriously how patronising and sexist is that?
Those of you in the "harmless bit of banter" camp, have a read of this story...
[url= http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3371861/Soccer-pundit-Andy-Gray-sacked-over-2nd-sexist-episode-with-female-presenter.html ]
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3371861/Soccer-pundit-Andy-Gray-sacked-over-2nd-sexist-episode-with-female-presenter.html [/url]
Now imagine a manager spoke to your wife/GF/same-sex partner like that at work, and they didn't usually have a jokey relationship.
Would you be cool with that?
Good he's a **** and football is for overpaid Jessies.
cha****ng was that not flirting ffs. My Mrs gets unwanted attention from loads of blokes, bus drivers with lewd comments, customers with sexual innuendo. She tells me about it, I ask her if it bothers her, she tells me its harmless enough. I ask her if she wants me to deal with it, she tells me not to be daft. Life goes on and no-one died, although the reaction might make you think they had
Your idea of flirting is pretty sleazy. 😐
Just because your missus is willing to put up with abuse (was going to say 'be a doormat' but thought that might be a little harsh) don't presume that everyone should have to.
Quite telling that you ask her if she wants you to deal with it, because obviously she isn't capable of doing it herself. 😆
Really - asking someone to clip a mic onto your trousers is sleazy? He hardly got his todger out and waved it in her face.
You thought 'doormat' was a bit harsh, but let me know that's what you think anyway? I can assure you my mrs is no doormat and is more than capable of dealing with 'flirty' men herself. I certainly know when to watch my step.
So me asking her if she wants me to deal with it means she isn't capable of dealing with it herself? No, she is, but I check if it bothers her and if she needs me to deal with it - what is so hard to grasp about that? And what sort of husband would I be if I didn't make sure the situation was ok?
It just happens that she isn't a frikkin mardy cow, who can't handle a few over zealous men without crying abuse.
You carry on passing judgement on people you know nothing about though if it makes you happy.
There's a bit of a conspiracy theory going on that the whole thing is a Murdoch engineered stunt to get rid of Gray, who has been making moves toward suing the News of The World regarding the phone tapping scandal.
Apparently Keys has cited 'Dark forces at work' regarding the leak (Google), and in at least one interview referred to the phone tapping scandal.
Really - asking someone to clip a mic onto your trousers is sleazy? He hardly got his todger out and waved it in her face.
So only actual sexual assault qualifies as sleazy in your book? No wonder you think it's ok for men to harass your wife then. 😕
But if they step over the line you come in and 'deal with it' eh - how exactly? Threaten them? 😆
Nice the way you characterise women who complain about sexual harassment/bullying etc as 'mardy cows' as well - bravo.
Get a grip grumm.
What are your views on porn?
Personally I think it should be compulsory.
As a male working in a predominantly female environment (Nursing) I would like to point out that many of the women I work with are better at the 'lads banter' than the lads.
Sexual references/comments and innuendo go on all the time with the women I work with (and for as my managers are both women).
Is it not sexist as it's aimed at men?
Whether it's right or wrong I can't say but I think there's a few on here who would be shocked by their other halves in when they're together.
i dont think people would everyone can understand a joke and banter but what they said is just disrespectful. Does the banter from your managers say that men cannot do they job as they do not know how to care and asks someone to go explain the basics of the job to you? Perhaps it is something you can laugh at rather than questioning your ability to do the job purely because of your gender? Surely you can see the difference?
If not you are and grey and I claim my £5 😆
Have you not yet worked out the difference between blokes at a football ground and people paid to commentate on it? Maybe Sky should just pull a couple of random geezers from the stands for each match now they have a vacancy
They have done for ages, never seen Fanzone?
What about the soccerettes on Soccer AM, surely Sky must now put a stop to that, that is more wrong than Andy & Richards banter, talk about double standards.
Fire them all ... bloody celebrities ...
[i]As a male working in a predominantly female environment (Nursing) I would like to point out that many of the women I work with are better at the 'lads banter' than the lads.
Sexual references/comments and innuendo go on all the time with the women I work with (and for as my managers are both women).
Is it not sexist as it's aimed at men?
Whether it's right or wrong I can't say but I think there's a few on here who would be shocked by their other halves in when they're together. [/i]
You will also find, if you really get to know the women you work with, that they don't like the casual macho misogynistic crap that they put up with day after day.
Juan has still made the most pertinent comment on this thread; we need to raise IQs, not eyebrows or voices.
How about we ban anyone Asians/Blacks/Muslims/Catholics from football officialdom while we're at....
Nae, you're fine with them, french football team is crap even with all of the above playing 😉
Pfft. Some useless MAN has made a proper hash of an offside decision in tonight's game. Seems that it's in fact men who don't understand the offside rule... 🙄
Some useless MAN has made a proper hash of an offside decision in tonight's game
Yeh, but did you see the size of the refs thighs?