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Glad the pilot is fine. But that's an expensive day out, even by fast jet standards.😲
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59323895
An expensive day for the UK taxpayer. F35s are a massive waste of money.
That might push their insurance premiums up a bit… 🤣
Yeah, glad the pilot's ok.
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before the compression on their spine is so bad it's a career ender?
Sure I read that somewhere.
Buying F35 jets (and then basing the entire design of our next generation of aircraft carriers around them) might be the single most expensive mistake the UK military has ever made.
As this thread title implies, losing even one is a fantastic loss. (Like other things, I have strong opinions about this).
Buying F35 jets (and then basing the entire design of our next generation of aircraft carriers around them) might be the single most expensive mistake the UK military has ever made.
I think losing the American War of Independence probably tops it
Or maybe, at £74million a throw:
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before the
compression on their spinesuspicion that it might have been their fault is so bad it’s a career ender?
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before the compression on their spine is so bad it’s a career ender?
Loosing one F35 could be considered an accident, but loosing two and you're starting to look careless...
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before the compression on their spine is so bad it’s a career ender?
No, there's no "limit" on the number of ejections. But, each one will generally lose a cm or two of the flyer's height so eventually they will have to stop or end up as a little puddle on the floor.
I was flying (uas, nothing grand) at Leeming when ZE809 had a fairly dramatic engine fire and both occupants ejected. The pilot was a fairly short guy and was heard later on (in happy hour) complaining that he didn't have any height to lose and was worried about falling below the minimum height for Tornado. He was being cheered up by people telling him he'd have to pay to get all his uniform shortened as a consequence. 😁
Loosing one F35 could be considered an accident, but loosing two and you’re starting to look careless…
Damn you, 35 years since doing that play for English O level and I thought it was finally going to be useful!
An expensive day for the UK taxpayer. F35s are a massive waste of money.
After the money thrown at the pandemic for PPE, track and trace etc, £100m seems quite cheap.
There was a guy who lost a couple of Jags back in the day... two in 5 months. Mind you, one of them wasn't entirely his fault.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/former-raf-jaguar-pilot-tells-the-story-of-when-he-was-shot-down-by-a-raf-phantom-interceptor/
I think losing the American War of Independence probably tops it
You mean losing the British civil war of the Americas
Buying F35 jets (and then basing the entire design of our next generation of aircraft carriers around them) might be the single most expensive mistake the UK military has ever made.
It wasn't so much buying the F35's that was the problem as opposed to buying the B variant. If they had gone for the C variant they would have built the carriers with cats and traps and then flown whatever the hell they wanted off of them.
Yeah, including the much cheaper F18. That’s another argument though and one that will run and run.
The next exciting instalment of this one is that, according to the mirror at least, there is now a race to recover the F35 before the Russians can salvage it and learn its secrets*.
* The ones the Chinese did not already get by hacking
^ is there a Russian sub making pace across the Mediterranean as we type...
Was at leuchars when a tornado had a problem with landing gear. They tried all they could until it either drop it in the sea or slide it down the runway.
Nav voted for runway because he had a round booked on st Andrew's old course and an ejection might ruin his backswing. Think I've got some little bits of that plane in my garage.
Damn you, 35 years since doing that play for English O level and I thought it was finally going to be useful!
Always important to be earnest.
BBC reporting is really slopping nowadays
There are eight UK F-35Bs on the carrier
There are now seven.
The next exciting instalment of this one is that, according to the mirror at least, there is now a race to recover the F35 before the Russians can salvage it and learn its secrets*.
I did wonder if they fish it out...
Soon to be "nearly new" F35 for sale on Ebay...
Anyone remember the Harrier that crashed in the sea at the 2002 Lowestoft air show?
The pilot just got the levers muddled up. Moved the nozzle angle lever instead of thrust lever! They are right next to each other though. Pilot was ok (ejected) but plane wrecked.
BBC reporting is really slopping nowadays
There are eight UK F-35Bs on the carrier
There are now seven.
Seven too many. The F35 is a billion pound willy-stroking exercise by the military and concocted solely to keep American defence contractors in liquidity.
1:10 for the elevator scene. I think I would have ridden that bad boy down to the basement rather than bang out.
Is it just a case of pulling back the nozzle angle lever to direct the thrust backwards? And the one right next to it turns everything off? Definitely a time to crack open the old Dymo labeller, just to be certain.
Or maybe, at £74million a throw:
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before
the compression on their spinesuspicion that it might have been their fault is so bad it’s a career ender?
That's a crass comment!
The F35 is early in its service life, so a trend can't yet be ascertained, but plenty of military aircraft have had inherent problems (fuel leaks etc) necessitating more than one bail-out in one's career.
An engine fire, for instance, wouldn't have anything to do with the driver and would result in an ejection.
The cost of the jet loss will pale into insignificance when you consider the recovery costs! 😬
Main thing is that the pilot is okay. You can't replace flesh and bone.
The cost is not necessarily the airframe (on a global scale). This is supposed to be the key player in NATO next gen aircraft, so the value will be in the IP and the systems that can be analysed.
The plane was designed to be equal or better to anything the Chinese or Russians can field in the next 20 years (35 for the UK if other equipment is taken into account), so if weaknesses can be found and exploited, it's a huge win for them and a big blow to the value of the project.
I thin it is supposed to be networked to other planes and systems so, worst case, if the crypto was not destroyed, they could get access to that and really mess things up. You'd need to re-roll the fill on every single plane (as a worst case).
The F35 is a billion pound willy-stroking exercise by the military
Even the 'Murican military aren't too keen. Its role in Close Air Support isn't panning out too well so the A10s have had their service life extended by Washington.
All in, a very expensive project that's trying to be all things for all people.
The cost of the jet loss will pale into insignificance when you consider the recovery costs!
Nah. It won't cost anywhere near £70 million to get that thing back.
They will know exactly where it is, just need a half decent DP Construction vessel and a couple of ROV's. £250k per day absolute tops. Probably closer to £100k per day in the current market, at this time of year. If you spent more than £2 million getting that back, you are doing it wrong.
That’s a crass comment!
No, it was a joke. Sorry if it offended you. I knew the pilot was OK, it had already been reported.
Not offended, that just came across as ill-informed and ignorant.
Not offended, that just came across as ill-informed and ignorant
It really didn’t… it was clearly a joke.
Not offended, that just came across as ill-informed and ignorant.
You ok hun? 😏
I'm 100% fine. Just pointing out something said in poor taste.
I know a few multiple ejectees and they certainly wouldn't find that funny. Nor do I.
Thank you for your concern however.
Is it just a case of pulling back the nozzle angle lever to direct the thrust backwards? And the one right next to it turns everything off? Definitely a time to crack open the old Dymo labeller, just to be certain.
The nozzle lever is inboard the throttle, and it's lever forward for forward thrust. Back for hover stop (82 degrees), or a bit more for a maximum of 99 degrees (usually for aggressive deceleration on landing or coming in for a vertical landing.
They're quite distinct to use.
Looking at the vid I cant see why the pilot would select idle on the throttle unintentionally as bringing the nozzles back wouldn't be ideal in a hover either. Looks more likely to have been sudden engine failure or something.
edit:
aviation report thingy
Looks like sudden engine failure.
that just came across as ill-informed and ignorant.
Since you've decided to have another go at me after I've apologised, I'm going to respond. You're telling me that it's ill informed and ignorant to suggest, even as joke, that losing an aircraft might be a result of pilot error, and that losing two aircraft might result in a review of competence? Also, clearly unconnected to the incident reported, since that was only one aircraft.
I've never posted anything intentionally offensive, on any thread, and I genuinely don't understand what the problem is.
Operator error
An RAF board of inquiry has now established that Flight Lieutenant Tony Cann had accidentally operated the controls for throttle and nozzle direction lever at the same time causing it to drop like a stone
From that link 👆
Well there you go, I should probably read the whole page before jumping in.
So i'd imagine he pushed the nozzles forward at the same time as increasing throttle and it then didnt have any lift so fell out the sky.
Am I right in thinking a pilot is only able to have two ejections (fnar) before the compression on their spine is so bad it’s a career ender?
I'm pretty sure a colleague of my fathers (ex-RAF pilot) has banged out 4 times. This was back in 70-80s though. things might have changed since then
Buying F35 jets (and then basing the entire design of our next generation of aircraft carriers around them) might be the single most expensive mistake the UK military has ever made.
mmm... I think £205 BILLION for trident might be considered by some to be bigger waste!
If they had gone for the C variant they would have built the carriers with cats and traps and then flown whatever the hell they wanted off of them.
Do electro-magnetic cats exist yet? It’s difficult to run steam ones when you don’t have a steam ship
Do electro-magnetic cats exist yet? It’s difficult to run steam ones when you don’t have a steam ship
Yes they do
Do electro-magnetic cats exist yet? It’s difficult to run steam ones when you don’t have a steam ship
Just add a boiler for the catapult?
squirrelking
It wasn’t so much buying the F35’s that was the problem as opposed to buying the B variant. If they had gone for the C variant they would have built the carriers with cats and traps and then flown whatever the hell they wanted off of them.
I recall reading in an aviation magazine several years ago that switching from operating STOVL to cat and trap aircraft would result in either a loss of continuous availability or the requirement for a third carrier.
Apparently typically to have a carrier ready for use at any given time you realistically expect to have another one at dock for refit or repairs and one more is needed to ensure that you have a sufficient number of pilots capable of cat and trap operations. STOVL operations are however comparatively easy to learn and don't tie up a carrier for significant periods of time so presumably it was initially felt that going for 2 carriers and F-35Bs was the cheapest way of getting the desired capability.
The RN may have gotten more locked into this decision than they'd have preferred thanks to MoD or BAE Systems contractual stuff. IIRC the carriers were to be built without cat and trap capability but were supposed to be capable of having it added if necessary. When the MoD later enquired about adding it in during construction BAE said "eh, we can't add that without it being veeeeeeeery expensive to you".
Could they not just use a conveyor belt?
If the aircraft carrier is moving it's just like a conveyor belt that's circular with the diameter of the earth.
Sounds like that Harrier pilot just got a ticking off!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3330045.stm
"Flight Lieutenant Cann, who is now flying again and based at RAF Cottismore, is said to have received advice following the loss of the plane in August 2002."