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Maybe a bit niche...but anyone else watching? Looking forward to it even tho it's hard to see past NZ for the win
Yeah...hope it's not too much of "first to first mark" wins
Will be watching highlights later...don't spoil it.
NZ do look good, but I have to root for UK in it....
I don't understand why NZ are allowed to race in the challenger series.
They write the rules? (they're only in the first part, they and and one other drop out after the round robin. I think).
Amazing bits of kit.
They certainly are, but the boats from the early part of last century are magnificent.
Brittania - oh dear.
I know the America's Cup is match racing, but i don't think the format works with this generation of boat. The SailGP format works much better. At least at the last AC, the boats and sailors weren't this good so there was some sense of jeopardy. Now, it seems if you win the start you win the race by min 30s (so far at least).
Also, GB seem to have built a slow boat. The US boat looked tiny in comparison, and at 40knts wind resistance must make a big difference?
Once you get used to the sight of a bloody massive boat foiling being a thing it's crushingly meh. To me it's just like all the F1 issues but magnified - take a sport that's fun at amateur and (relatively) low cost level then professionalise the concept and throw stupendous amounts of money at it until you've wrung most of the initial joy from the thing and all that's left is a tech nerd fest. AC has always been a willy waving competition though I guess so it's the natural culmination of things.
Honestly, I reckon it's more interesting watching a Sunday morning lads "n dad's mirror race.
The Kiwis aren’t in the challenger series. This is just a shake down. Nothing counts going forward.
Yesterday we did have some good start line action
My main complaint is the slightly weird power rules. 2 guys peddling like mad to run the sails. But everything under the water is run from shore charged battery. At least it’s better than the ocean race where you can’t tack with a 75 hp engine running
Off topic a bit, but I have been aboard two America’s Cup challengers and helmed one of them for two or more hours. Not modern ones though. I went on board Endeavour when she was in a mud berth on the Medina river above Cowes before her restoration. The size of her was mind boggling to an impressionable teenager. I sailed in Gretel, the first Australian 12 metre, in the Whitsunday Islands in 1995. At the time she was doing day charter work and I spent a full day. The highlight was helming on a shy spinnaker reach- she was so well balanced.
Agreed with a few comments here.
Britannia looking rather chubby and ponderous compared to sleek and nippy.... Maybe a change if we see stronger winds?
NZ, US and Italy (despite glitches) have to be the strong contenders here.
To me it’s just like all the F1 issues but magnified – take a sport that’s fun at amateur and (relatively) low cost level then professionalise the concept and throw stupendous amounts of money at it until you’ve wrung most of the initial joy from the thing and all that’s left is a tech nerd fest.
Yeah but it's not as simple as that...SailGP is ultra hi tech, expensive, but it manages to create spectacular, exciting racing.....10 big foiling cats going at up to 100km/h in touching distance of each other
Yeah but it’s not as simple as that…
I'd say sailgp is a perfect example of why it is that simple. For me it's the perfect top end inshore series leaving the AC looking expensive and irrelevant. Yes, it's professional but per race it's vastly cheaper. Each boat gets plenty of outings before becoming obsolete. It's proper one design racing...just with very expensive boats. It doesn't have the stupid politics of the AC and it's a relatively level playing field. And the actual spectacle of 10 boats charging about is just more interesting than match racing of two boats, one of which is just always going to win bar incident.
Spent a day on Valsheda whilst at the Douarnenez festival in 1986
I’m inspired to watch more sail gp
I’m also impressed that you can fit on in 3 40ft shopping containers
I am watching it and am amazed at the technology and speed, they also look very difficult to sail. I watched some of the SailGP off St. Tropez last year and I have to say the racing was much better.
Whilst I spent many years campaigning a Class 1 boat in the 90s, I'm currently enjoying racing a 55 year old Squib with my wife - which somewhat less advanced than the current AC75s!
I’d say sailgp is a perfect example of why it is that simple. For me it’s the perfect top end inshore series leaving the AC looking expensive and irrelevant
Maybe, but if it wasn't for the AC then SailGP wouldn't even exist as that's the source of basically all the technology!
I’m currently enjoying racing a 55 year old Squib with my wife
Haha, nothing wrong with a Squib - and the older ones are some of the quickest!
I used to race them heavily in the 70's before moving on to J24's. We still get around15 Squibs out on a regular basis and our club has one of the strongest fleets in the country.
Personally I much prefer the Corby 37 I race now. Here we are doing a whole 16 knots downwind last week... and yes I know it doesn't look it!!
https://youtube.com/shorts/ic7G8qifFW4?feature=share
I thought the racing got better as the regatta progressed. Initially I was just watching the start and 1st beat as there were no lead changes or close racing. Races on the last day were much more exciting and 'involved some actual match racing. Might be because they are learning how to race the AC75s or maybe conditions were more conducive to close racing. The manoeuvrability of something so big and fast is impressive.
Question: sure I heard that the crew all need to come from the boat/team country? How come Jimmy Spithall (AUS) is one of the helms on Luna Rossa (ITA).
All a long way away from the sailing I do now (Gaff rigged Crabber 26) and even the time I did race (crew on Sigma 33). Those days there was an obvious difference in mainsail position upwind & downwind, none of this apparent wind boatspeed = 3x wind speed stuff !
I heard that the crew all need to come from the boat/team country?
As in be born there or have a passport? Let's face it, if you have a billionaire sponsor, getting a passport won't be an issue.
Found the answer to my own Q
100% of the race crew be either a passport holder of the country that the team's yacht club represented as of March 19, 2021, or have been in that country for two of the previous three years before March 18, 2021
I love sail GP and was looking forward to AC37, but find it a bit meh with just 2 boats racing.
AC would be far better with a big fleet competition then 2x4boat semis leading to a 4 boat race-off series!!
To me Americas Cup has and should be a match racing competition. A boat on boat competition, preferably where a good helm could overcome some difference in boat speed. There did seem to be some signs that the current boats might be going back to this backed up with the virtual box so the protests didn't need to involve actual damage.
For fast paced fleet racing the Sail GP series is a good watch agreed. I find the IMOCA and Vendee Globe to be the most impressive from a technological and human perspective. Looking forward to that starting later in the year.
AC would be far better with a big fleet competition
It's never been that. It's a match racing competition, always has been.
AC would be far better with a big fleet competition
And which point it just becomes like any other series but with higher speeds - which in itself becomes a bit pointless anyway. I'm kinda looking forward to a winner maybe one day winding the technology clock back to simpler times.
Much better day today. Lots of lead changes and boats interacting
I find the IMOCA and Vendee Globe to be the most impressive from a technological and human perspective. Looking forward to that starting later in the year.
I find it bonkers watching the foiling IMOCA boats. Seems like yesterday that DSS was a novelty being retrofitted to Wild Oats and now it's evolved into something that'll keep a 60ft singlehander out of the water for days at a time.
But heck that must be exhausting, it's not exactly the rocking to sleep motion of a displacement boat!
But heck that must be exhausting, it’s not exactly the rocking to sleep motion of a displacement boat!
Watch some of the latest interviews with skippers. Some have designed padded 'cells' to sleep in and others are going to wear body armour and helmets for most of the trip....
GBR teamwork has improved so much. Now able to sail well in strong and light winds. Potential LV final against Italy could be amazing.
I was convinced GBR and swiss where going to collide today
That first INEOS start was amazing!
Delighted to see the team coming together.
There are definitely two classes in the semis are there.. Ineos and Luna Rossa. USA and Alinghi RB. Although USA kept fighting in race 2 today to make it quite close.
Alinghi RB looks like a harder boat to sail or maybe a less experienced crew? Ainsley not taking prisoners in the pre start though. I keep having to remind myself how big these boats are.
I think it's a shame American Magic lost Paul Goodison to injury. All that expertise not to mention years of preparation and practice to perfection and money out the window in an instant. Effectively replaced by a rookie who's then thrown into a match with Luna Rosa.
You'd have to be gutted if you were a member/supporter of the American syndicate.
It is a shame but they probably have bigger issues than the loss of PG... The boat design is turning out to be not really right (I'm looking at you recumbent cyclors).
LR don't really seem to have taken much of a step forward since the start of the RR and aren't looking as potent as they were.
We'll see come the finals.
Agreed. I've seen those in boat shots of the recumbent cyclists on AM. It just looks really awkward and frankly not very powerful. Maybe SRAM will want to take their stickers down? I've also read stuff about their struggles for a happy medium in their flight control.
Slingsby says the flight controls aren't working well enough, but cos of design decisions taken months ago, they can't be changed.
I agree that the recumbent cyclors just don't look as efficient...they did seem to run out of hydraulic power in one of the round robin races (allegedly)
Well done INEOS! Sf2 is looking tense, especially after the traveller broke today on LRPP
So day one of the LV Cup finals was interesting!
Race 1 in max wind conditions and Ineos looked a handful and comfortably beaten - Race 2 in the same conditions and all of a sudden Ineos looks much more manageable and takes the win.
Rumour has it they have a live data feed back to Mercedes F1 in Brackley who analyse the data and then give feedback re the foils. Bonkers!
Hopefully it's going to be a good series regardless of the winner.
I was reading they might have adjusted where & how the hydraulic pressure was used. More biased to sail trim rather than foil trim. Apparently (and I know nothing about sailing a foiling boat) fine control of foiling height is better controlled via loading the foils from sail pressure.
Did seem from the 2 races that the 2 teams are evenly matched, hopefully that will also be the case in the lighter winds forecast for Saturday.
Really enjoyed that, especially The Inside Track Analysis Show on the Ineos Britannia YouTube channel. For a layman like me it put a lot more colour into the racing.
🙂
Yes, I only understand about 5% of what they talk about but it's pretty impressive tech.
Yeah fantastic win. Bring on NZ!
(Saw that NZ have been training against Alinghi and Alinghi managed to capsize...oops).
Really enjoyed that, especially The Inside T(
r)ack Analysis Show on the Ineos Britannia YouTube channel. For a layman like me it put a lot more colour into the racing.
As I said, layman!
So, ineos beat luna rosa. An epic final series with the italians more fragile but quicker. Ineos more reliable and able to grind out the wins. First tine since i was a dot that a uk boat has made the final. Now how do we stack up against the kiwis?
That is going to be the interesting thing, all will be answered on Sat I suspect. I'm disappointed the Swiss have been warming up the Kiwis..
I thought that wasn’t allowed (racing outside of competition)?
The competition has been fantastic so far - the inaugural women’s AC starts tomorrow with Hannah Mills skippering for GB.
An epic final series with the italians more fragile but quicker.
There's no data that says that Luna Rossa was faster.
If anything Ineos had consistently slightly better VMG and seemed better through the manoeuvres.
23 minutes and we find out what the delta is.
Not if there's no wind!
I know less than nothing about sailing, I can’t fathom how you can turn a boat and sail back the way you came? I mean if the wind blows one way surely that’s the only way you go? How can you then turn and sail into it? Anyway…….I have to say despite not understanding the first thing about, the rules, tactics or how you win, I have been weirdly sucked in to watching it and finding myself enjoying it.
I can’t fathom how you can turn a boat and sail back the way you came?
its a bit like how you can get a bike up a slope thats a bit too steep - you zig zag your way up. Its inefficient, but you get there in the end.
I can’t fathom how you can turn a boat and sail back the way you came? I mean if the wind blows one way surely that’s the only way you go?
Think about an aircraft wing. It creates lift at 90 degrees to the airflow by creating a higher pressure on the bottom surface than on the top, this causes airflow to be deflected downwards, creating enough lift to keep the aircraft flying. A yacht can sail crosswind by deflecting the airflow sideways. Conservation of momentum means that the airflow deflection creates thrust in the opposite direction to the airflow so yachts can create thrust at 90 degrees to the wind direction, and they can sail crosswind much faster than the windspeed. Because they have a keel or centerboard to stop them from just skidding across the surface of the water, that thrust can be used to sail upwind.
Race 1 summary. Light airs. Poor start by ineos who were delayed by a battery change. NZ quicker upwind than Ineos and covered well. Game over after first beat. Ineos faster downwind but not enough to make up for upwind losses. Not a massive loss but not what you'd call tight. NZ to win in 9.
Oh dear. Second race a little closer but…
7-0 a possibility
NZ will probably win
But it’s too early to right off Ineos.
There were 2 related problems today
Shifts and variation in wind speed meant it really mattered where you are on the course and being in phase with the shifts
Once you are ahead or just level pegging and in phase or on the correct side then you’re going to win
I know less than nothing about sailing, I can’t fathom how you can turn a boat and sail back the way you came?
It’s worse than you think. It’s voodoo in both directions. They sail away from the wind faster than the wind. So they aren’t blown along in either direction. They are so fast they can see wind ahead on the water and catch up with it
Sort of answering Andy4d:
Sailing progressed slowly for thousands of years. Stick a big keel on a boat to stop it getting blown downwind, make an aerodynamic sail that can generate forward force and hey presto, you can sail back and forth at right angles to the wind.
Some refinement and you can head upwind (where the wind is blowing from) at the expense of speed.
A bit more experimentation and you find different combinations get more speed, more upwind.
Then people found that if there was a way to get the big draggy hull up out of the water you could sail much faster, and go upwind more. Windsurfers really popularised this. As a windsurfer myself since the mid 1980s I've witnessed massive and rapid change. We can go faster than the wind, at 90 degrees to it. In fact there have been times in strong winds that I've gone a long way upwind, really bloody fast (maybe 20 degrees upwind, which is nothing compared to a yacht with a keel, but I've just got a 40cm fin at the very back) because its the only way to slow down.
We go that fast because we're planing, all but 10% of the board is out of the water so most of the drag is gone. And water is very draggy. Speedboats have massive engines and do about 10 mpg to belt along at 30mph. (25 knots - think of a knot as mph plus vat, (not quite, but near enough).
Then someone thought "why don't I put a hydrofoil on the bottom of my fin?". So now we have little aeroplanes stuck to the end of a one metre fin (now confusingly called a mast) which raise the whole kit and caboodle up clear of the water, eliminating nearly all the drag and they whiz along in really low wind, and get upwind like you wouldn't believe.
So now you don't even need a mast and sail, just an inflatable wing that you can hold in one hand, and a board the size of an ironing board. About £1,500 will get you as much fun on the water you can have with your wetsuit on.
But on the other hand spend another hundred million or so and you can adapt the same principles to a catamaran and get to compete in the Americas Cup. With the added bonus of seasickness.
Rumour has it they have a live data feed back to Mercedes F1 in Brackley who analyse the data and then give feedback re the foils. Bonkers!
It’s not a rumour, they have live data feed to and from Mercedes HQ, so they get actual analysis on the fly, which is borderline voodoo, from a competition sailing pov!
they have live data feed to and from Mercedes HQ, so they get actual analysis on the fly,
Does the driver have a public whinge on radio about strategy and how he knew all along it was wrong and the team are to blame for ****ing it up for him?
Re shifts and wind speed changes over the course; in light to moderate conditions there is a significant increase in AC75 boat speed for a small increase in true windspeed. As a result, sailing into the gusts, both upwind and down, is gaining significantly and almost certainly more than using the shifts. On a related note, it takes ineos longer to get back up to speed after a tack than NZ which really isn't helping tactics. I think mozzy did a video that mentioned this a week or so ago.
As @ampthill said earlier - the lead boat has a significant advantage in picking what wind to sail in and in dumping dirty air all over the following boat. It's tough being second in these races.
I liked how a commentator called it a design competition that ended with a race.
Any technology driven sport is the same. The designers and team managers have to juggle numerous variables and try to find the best overall compromise. The best thing for the sport is when you get very changeable conditions and different teams are faster in different conditions.
It’s not a rumour, they have live data feed to and from Mercedes HQ
I could be wrong but I don't think the data feed from HQ is live to the boat....certainly the chase boats aren't allowed to communicate with the AC75 during a race, so is be surprised if HQ were.
No coms’ to the boat during the race, not even audio
An ex student of mine was interviewed in a video dock side . He’s on the data team. I think his team is looking at the data from a sailing point of view. He said they package the data for the coaching team
There’s a good video in boat prep. They start at 5 in the morning with one guy scanning the structure. They tend to do software updates after the race to reduce the risk of mucking things up
A big thing this year is linked controls. So there might have a preset to bear away. As you adjust the sail angle it’ll auto adjust the sail depth. In wonder if that’s what they are doing in Brackley
As I understand it, the way the F1 teams use the data is they run test programs during practice then upload that data to HQ overnight and run simulations to find the optimum setup. In that case, they need to decide on a suitable compromise between one-lap pace for qualifying and race pace, especially when following other cars. I assume AC will be similar, analyzing the data to try to optimize the boat for the expected conditions and also to respond to any strengths or weaknesses of the other boat.
I like how they've copied the 'race is determined at the start but you struggle on watching in case the leader makes a catasrophic error which almost never happens because they are very good' part of F1 too
Looking like it’s going to be a bit of a walkover. Maybe if the wind picks up it might change things but at the moment, as a competition, it’s a non-event.
NZ faster and tactically better. Game over. 7-0. F1 analogy is good.
Once we had the penalty it was game over. But on the water it seemed like the performance differential was in NZs favour. More so than races 1 and 2
The big hull must pay a penalty on the tacks. Your heading into a strong wind unpowered.
Maybe like F1 they should be made to use 2 different sails during the race
Maybe like F1 they should be made to use 2 different sails during the race
Back in the AC75 cat days they did use an asymmetric / code zero for the downwind leg. But with them going faster than the wind it didn't work as effectively as it does on a displacement boat so they dropped it pretty quickly. Basically the jib is now just there to do it's job of pushing air over the main quicker.
Sadly Kiwi boat just looks too fast. IB won the start today but couldn’t keep a lead. Zero mistakes from the kiwis.
sadly a competition where the holder gets to set the racing rules and technological class rules for the boat to their advantage just seems a bit pointless. Roll on sail GP.
Disregarding penalties, starts etc, the Kiwi boat just has more boatspeed on all points.
I hope it blows tomorrow...