[Closed] American journalist death

If you want to find out then watch it. Ask yourself how much of a fight you'd put up after enduring what this poor soul did before passing judgement on him.

The image will stay with you for a long time. I'd not recommend that anyone watches it, and I'll not tell you where to find it.

RIP James Foley.

Try not to confuse the hollywood hero escape scenario with a situation where the victim has been overpowered, humiliated and tortured before being executed.

Who is passing judgement??? What a strange thing to say.

I suspect bigG was referring to ISIS or whoever judging him as guilty of something

Yes, some time ago now. By accident really. It was awful to watch and yes the victim put up a struggle. I guess everyone is going to react differently in those situations, some will have been mentally beaten, some will know it's coming, some maybe won't.

Don't go looking for it is my advice, the videos are specifically intended to ensure we fear these people.

I disagree box, he was clearly referring to the OP for some reason.

I suspect by the time it gets to that stage the victim has most likely accepted their fate. Truly horrific. However, everyone should spare a minute to put themselves in his shoes as it will bring home how barbaric people can be.
RIP.

Victims seem resigned to their fate and sit passively. Its truly horrendous. We need our special forces to hunt and kill every single one of these animals whilst the threat can still be contained.

I haven't seen the actual beheading, nor do I want to, but the lead up to it is on YouTube and I would say that, like anyone would be, he is paralysed with fear.

Truly awful.

he was clearly referring to the OP

I thought he was referring to the judgement passed by the executioners, so not clear just a bit ambiguous.

It's all just fubar 🙁 a shitstorms coming..
RIP

It's odd doing this sort of thing really as just makes us more supportive of dealing with them which isn't what they want.

What they want is all infidels to be put to death. At the same time, by their standards, defiling the corpse and not allowing the soul entry to their version of paradise, that I find odd.

Never watched any. Kind of always assumed people were drugged to make them passive.

I think they want the victim to be fully aware of the situation.

I believe a tactic used is that the execution scenario is reenacted as part of the torture so, often, it is not the first time the victim has gone through this ordeal.

Is it wrong to wonder what the world would be like if we had not quelled Hitler and his ideas ,would there be peace in the world under one nuthob as opposed to infighting and slaughter by lots of nutjobs?

😯

Ask yourself how much of a fight you'd put up after enduring what this poor soul did before passing judgement on him.

Commendably efficient use of the phrase 'passing judgement' there as the poster has managed to instruct the OP not to pass judgement whilst simultaneously passing judgement himself. Good work!

I watched a clip of one couple years ago. Ashamed to say a sick sense of curiosity. Luckily it was a poor quality low res vid so gruesome details were thankfully hidden - except for the sound. I think that was the worse, no Hollywood movie can replicate the last moments of somebody having their neck sawn through.

Don't cave in to your curiosity. It's scary - and made me feel somewhat implicated.

Shocking how cruel and pure evil some people are. Scary world.

philxx1975 - Member
Is it wrong to wonder what the world would be like if we had not quelled Hitler and his ideas ,would there be peace in the world under one nuthob as opposed to infighting and slaughter by lots of nutjobs?

Funny, I often wonder that, he'd be dead by now of course, but I doubt the thousand year Reich would have put up with any sort of Arab autonomy and of course there wouldn't be an Israel.

As to the beheading I'm solidly with the don't even go look for it, it's what they want you to do.

is watching these videos any different really to watching a bird eye view of a 'precision' strike by a drone? because they've shown them on the news.

end result is the same.

The only difference between this lot and the Nazis was that the Nazis used gas or bullets. I find the whole situation absolutely horrifying. I've travelled a lot in the Middle East and have many good Muslim friends there and here so I'm optimistic that the reason and sense and moderation of the massive majority will overcome the madness of this tiny minority, because they must be stopped. As with the Nazis they will have to be hunted down and punished for as long as they live after this awful episode has passed.

I'm encouraged that the Grand Mufti in Saudi Arabia has disassociated these animals from moderate Islam.

jam bo. Yes they are different one shows human suffering in detail the other doesnt. This is of course what makes drone use and remote sir strikes so worrying.

It's odd doing this sort of thing really as just makes us more supportive of dealing with them which isn't what they want.

Maybe not though, if journalists stop going out there then it falls off the news. My phone froze the other day and was showing 2 week old news, I was amazed at the number of what had seemed were hugely important stories that had fallen off my radar and I didn't know the conclusion. Or look at the Ebola outbreak, potentialy a huge natural disaster that could spread to the west (there isn't a vaccination or treatment), isn't getting much news time as no journalist in their right mind is going out there to report on it.

Don't get me wrong its not some BNP type sentiment ,I'm no historian but if I try to connect things it seems at some point all civilizations have gone by the wayside in some form, the roman empire for example maybe its western civilizations turn to be overtaken or replaced by another,the only thing that seems to connect them is war will always be waged.

[quote=anagallis_arvensis ]jam bo. Yes they are different one shows human suffering in detail the other doesnt. This is of course what makes drone use and remote sir strikes so worrying.

so its ok to watch death and suffering as long as there is too much detail and it doesn't make you squeamish?

Try reading what I wrote.

Don't get me wrong its not some BNP type sentiment

No problem, I'm just very anti-nutjob and fundamentalist intolerant.

http://rt.com/news/181476-saudi-arabia-hashish-execution/.

All the same when use of sharia law is The law.

No never watched one. The still photo is unpleasant enough. I know people who have and they have regretted it, its an image they can now never erase. I have watched the ISIS executions where they shoot people lying on the ground.@aa no I don't think the people are drugged, they will be exhausted almost certainly beaten and truly terrified. From what I understand they are put through "fake executions" a number of times to terrorise them.

It is disturbing to me that the killer is reported to have a British accent. Reports are that 500 Britains are fighting with ISIS. These people need to be tracked down and killed if possible (as per ex SAS Chris Ryan's recent comments) and under no circumstances must they ever be permitted to return to the UK.

EDIT: This is also why the wife of the British national supposedly fighting for ISIS must be sent to jail for a very long time for attempting to supply him with 20,000 euros. Its a reality that all the friends and relatives of these people fighting with ISIS will now be suspects and being closely monitored.

The only difference between this lot and the Nazis was that the Nazis used gas or bullets. I find the whole situation absolutely horrifying. I've travelled a lot in the Middle East and have many good Muslim friends there and here so I'm optimistic that the reason and sense and moderation of the massive majority will overcome the madness of this tiny minority, because they must be stopped. As with the Nazis they will have to be hunted down and punished for as long as they live after this awful episode has passed.

I'm encouraged that the Grand Mufti in Saudi Arabia has disassociated these animals from moderate Islam.

So, in explanation of my comment. It relates to this -

"I am intrigued at how much fight the victim puts up"

If you watch the video, you may well be surprised how little fight he puts up, it would be easy to judge the poor guy as weak or defeated. It's very apparent that by the time he gets to the point of kneeling in the dust in an orange robe he's accepted his fate.

Does that explain it? I'm not proposing that I can judge anyone on here, or question their opinions. I have mine, you have yours, such is life.

Let's not turn this into a handbag fight guys, it's a tragic story.

I'm just going to add.

RIP to James Foley.

He died doing what he loved.

😐

@bigG perhaps he is showing extra-ordinarily great courage, he is not giving the ISIS a "show" they can use for even more propoganda

@bikebouy - yes agreed RIP.

I do wonder whether it is worth it, to take those risks for the coverage

jambalaya - Member

@bigG perhaps he is showing extra-ordinarily great courage, he is not giving the ISIS a "show" they can use for even more propoganda

We'll never know and I wish no one ever has to be in the position to find out.

When the internet first became available I watched a few videos that I now wish I hadn't. Just occasionally those images flashback, my life would be better without them.

i saw one about 10 years ago of a Russian soldier getting beheaded by Chechen fighters....even to this day its still fresh in my mind
its a truly horrific act and those that carry out them are truly evil and despicable beings.
i've seen ISIS executions before and they're all gruesome and brutal.

i heard on the radio that James Foley had been kidnapped 2 years ago...no doubt during that time he would have been subjected to many horrible and brutal things that we can only imagine.

those responsible are nothing but monsters who need to be stopped

RIP James Foley

I regret to say I watched a video showing a beheading a few years ago. I am still haunted by it to this day.
Do not watch it.
A colleague at work was watching an ISIS vid on his facebook page (wtf!) the other day and I happened to witness about 10 seconds of it.Barbaric.
RIP james Foley.

EDIT: This is also why the wife of the British national supposedly fighting for ISIS must be sent to jail for a very long time for attempting to supply him with 20,000 euros. Its a reality that all the friends and relatives of these people fighting with ISIS will now be suspects and being closely monitored.

Do you think?

There's a well known Jihadist with a record of finance extremists running a charity in Ipswich, he may well be completely reformed of course but they are getting money from somewhere and I'm not sure I share your confidence in our intelligence services.

if we had not quelled Hitler and his ideas ,would there be peace in the world under one nuthob

No. It was never just "one nuthob" ([i]sic[/i]). Hitler, like al-Baghdadi, was a delegative leader. Hence the Nurembeg trials, no?

Whilst we're on the subject, this from W H Auden writing in response to the "Great Leaders" of the 1930's. Just as pertinent today with the religious versions currently strutting the stage:

"The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach,
The Ogre cannot master Speech:
About a subjugated plain,
Among its desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
While drivel gushes from his lips."

if we had not quelled Hitler and his ideas ,would there be peace in the world under one nuthob

No. It was never just "one nuthob" (sic). Hitler, like al-Baghdadi, was a delegative [b]leader[/b]. Hence the Nurembeg trials, no?

So, just like he suggested, everything happening under one leader/nutjob

I've spent a bit of time this morning thinking about the brutal and depraved experience this poor man has been put through over the last 2 years - it genuinely makes me feel very upset that any human being can take such pleasure in the torture of another, more so that in this case it's yet again someone from Britain doing it.

The fact that the mindset behind these decapitations is held by large numbers of people, and that at least three similar events (1 in London, 2 abroad by Londoners) have already taken place surely must bring into question whether we are sufficiently on top of what's happening in institutions and organisations that are under religious control.

Today's article in The Times about corruption and undue religious influence in Tower Hamlets, and the ongoing debate about "Trojan Horse" would seem to suggest that the peaceful, stable and democratic society we take for granted may be at risk, not least when the 1,000+ Britains now believed to be fighting in Iraq and Syria return home.

Aside from the rhetoric, no-one seems to have any real idea of how to deal with the mindset or the sizable minority of our fellow britons who opening espouse it. When people handing out ISIS literature to shoppers in London and openly advocating murder in the process are allowed to continue unhindered it really does beg the question of whether anyone's got the courage to start confronting the underlying mindset.

it genuinely makes me feel very upset that any human being can take such pleasure in the torture of another, more so that in this case it's yet again someone from Britain doing it.

Going back to medieval times due to religion what a surprise. Take all these bellends to the natural history museum and teach them evolution.

"I'm not sure they enjoy it at all"

The british guy two weeks ago certainly did - he laughed and made a joke about how long it had taken to hack the poor victim's head off.

Any UK citizen who goes abroad to fight for ISIS should instantly forfeit their UK citizenship. You go to fight, you don't come back to the UK, ever.

Wrecker is correct you cannot spread terror without doing bad things hence why they show them doign bad things. It makes you know that you if you fight them you will die if they get you. A powerful weapon in a fight as many will run away rather than fight.

TBH using drones to bomb folk is not any better IMHO

I am not sure why we think close and personal is more cruel than distant and by remote control. I have not watched the clip and wont be watching it.

Any UK citizen who goes abroad to fight for ISIS should instantly forfeit their UK citizenship. You go to fight, you don't come back to the UK, ever.

. I have not watched the clip and wont be watching it.

r.i.p james foley 🙁

Like gay porn, I'm aware of its existence, but don't have the slightest desire to ever watch it.

What I find terrifying about this is... I can maybe understand if you're dragged up in some god-forsaken middle eastern hell-hole, where the whole society is brutalised by some medieval dictatorship, or constant warfare, and life is cheap, then you'd regard this kind of thing as somehow acceptable. But if you've got someone brought up in a civilised, liberal, democratic society, then how the hell do you end up having your humanity removed to the degree that you could do something like this. It just doesn't compute!

What also quite disturbing (if anything could be rated as disturbing alongside a beheading such as this), is that many of these people who have grown up in a western society are actually quite tied to the society they claim to detest. Plenty of them retain their facebook and twitter accounts and post up pictures of them holding blinged up guns. They boast about having all the mod cons like air con, wifi and TV while simultaneously shouting about bringing down the society that provided them.

It's clear a large number of these people are either there just for the excitement or are very confused and yet people are being killed over these messed up ideals.

Binners I think a number of things happens
1. You are young and idealistic
2. you see western hypocrisy in its foreign policy
3. you watch lots and lots of videos of the aftermath of us bombing/shooting your muslim brothers. you think we do not commit atrocities in far off lands?
4. you are mentally ill
5. I think you need to be deeply religious to this - perhaps massively politically motivated but these days you need religious fervour to do this sort of thing.
Usually a combination of those 4 IMHO

Aside from the rhetoric, no-one seems to have any real idea of how to deal with the mindset or the sizable minority of our fellow britons who opening espouse it. When people handing out ISIS literature to shoppers in London and openly advocating murder in the process are allowed to continue unhindered it really does beg the question of whether anyone's got the courage to start confronting the underlying mindset.

I've been wondering about this too. Being a lefty-pinko-liberal I've always had the view that islamic extremism is fuelled and enabled by the West's imperialistic domination of the middle east. Whilst I still think this is the case, there comes a point where it needs to be directly confronted and defeated rather than appeased and apologised for, and I think that point has probably been reached. How that happens though without making it worse is anyone's guess.

But if you've got someone brought up in a civilised, liberal, democratic society, then how the hell do you end up having your humanity removed to the degree that you could do something like this. It just doesn't compute!

it doesnt make a difference where they grew up...if they were never taught a sense of morality or human compassion they will always take pleasure in such barbaric acts...these are the ones who willingly go with very little coercion from their uk based recruiters
then you have the weak minded and gullible ones who are easily brainwashed into thinking this is acceptable...again some of them go out there and enjoy partaking in this, but there is probably an equal minority who once they get out there realise the true extent of what they're now involved in...they dont enjoy it but they now have no choice but to go along with it and stay quiet...
to stop them from going the ones who do the radicalising and recruiting need to be stopped.

Any UK citizen who goes abroad to fight for ISIS should instantly forfeit their UK citizenship. You go to fight, you don't come back to the UK, ever.

what about if you fight for other nations?

There are UK and USA citizens fighting in conflicts all over the world, many of whom are trained at the taxpayers expense as they are ex-military. We should be hunting down these 'soldiers of fortune' as well.

having watched a similar video of some mexican cartel using a chainsaw on a couple of people (out of morbid curiosity) I now have a better idea of where my limits to what I can watch are.

that is the only good thing to come out of watching it, before watching I thought nothing would faze me but the way a man sat there next to someone getting cut in half with a chainsaw without putting up a struggle and then got chopped himself was what troubled me most (and still does).

To think of what must have gone on prior to the act to totally take the fight out of you when you know what you are facing still to this day haunts me

what about if you fight for other nations?

Legaly that's fine (within the bounds of the Geneva Convention, war crimes etc). You can quite legaly go an do stint in the Foreign Legion then come back (and IIRC if for whatever reason you can't to your own country, the French will give you an entirely new identiy if you want it). What you can't do it go and fight for non state armies (whatever the technical term is), which basicly covers the western defiition of Terrorist.

What would be less clear would be if you were fighting for the Taliban, who were pre the occupation of Afganistan, the national army.

As for how calm he looks, it's not the same, but, I've crashed and broken bones and knocked myself out, and despite the pain and what you think would be human nature to fight to stay awake, it was an odly calm "I'll just close my eyes now" feeling.

Wild concept, but maybe orchestrated by Mi6/CIA handlers to stir press support for military intervention?

Certainly a clear precedent set:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/government-agents-directly-involved-us-terror-plots-report?CMP=twt_fd&CMP=SOCxx2I2

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5320/mi5-and-mi6-tell-mps-to-censor-key-report-on-lee-rigby-s-killers

We all know how cunning our Governments can be when it comes to justifying profitable war; loss of life is irrelevant to the power brokers...

There are UK and USA citizens fighting in conflicts all over the world, many of whom are trained at the taxpayers expense as they are ex-military. We should be hunting down these 'soldiers of fortune' as well.

I'm not sure they enjoy it at all.

Some might not enjoy it, but the brain is wonderful at compartmentalizing guilt and shame if you are able to justify your actions to yourself.

Not seen it, don't want to.

Religion, so often an excuse for violence.

Not really correct, and not remotely comparable. They aren't acting as mercenaries in the sense that they aren't fighting for a nation or cause. They are security contractors and aren't really paid to "fight" at all. They are hired protection, not hired warfighters. Very very different to idealogical war tourists comitting genocide, and an ignorant comparison.

Worth a read...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/us/before-shooting-in-iraq-warning-on-blackwater.html

It's still so far from comparable that I can't even explain it.
I know about Blackwater too, I've read the 560 page book about them, which was less than complimentary for obvious reasons.

what about if you fight for other nations?

As for the soldiers of fortune comments above such mercenaries are often brought to justice locally, unless you are Mark Thatcher of course.

I just listened to the voice only link on the Guardian website. It's quite chilling how well spoken the individual is, clearly well educated and attentive to his diction.

I have watched a couple of them. I wanted to see what true evil looks like. We are truly in dangerous times with extremists like these in our midsts.

RIP James Foley you deserved better.

There's a well known Jihadist with a record of finance extremists running a charity in Ipswich, he may well be completely reformed of course but they are getting money from somewhere and I'm not sure I share your confidence in our intelligence services.

There has been a huge increase in the amount of Muslim/Charity bank accounts being shut down by British banks. Whilst the press is linking this to fines by the US on banks like HSBC (insufficient money laundering checks for Mexican drug cartels, involvement in transfers to sanctioned countries like Iran) I wonder whether it isn't more closely linked to ISIS. From what I've read some seems to be an overshoot (ie legitimate accounts being closed) which is to be regretted but the banks are operating a better safe than sorry approach.

Also ISIS captured the large bank in Mosul and is rumoured to be selling oil through Turkey, they are well funded

@RaveyDavey - have they affected you (other than to confirm your view of the individuals/organisations) ?

I watched the Ken Bigley video up to the point where they started to cut and quickly turned it off. Never wanted to see another since as it completely horrified me. Still does!

Unfortunately, this is probably the start of a series of executions of apparently around 30-40 western hostages that are estimated to be in the area. To remind you we recently had a couple of female aid workers taken in Syria. Chances are they will get to ISIS and used for maximum publicity. Truly horrifying prospect.

I never have and don't wish to see it.
Why has Cameron come back from his holiday.

These people having been beheading and slaughtering people by the side of the road for months .
Is it because an American died or because it was maybe a Brit that did it.

the beheading of innocents and the bombing of the people responsible with drones are incomparable.

The sooner Isis are pushing up the Daisy's the better.

The acts are performed to make content for the videos, the videos are made because the perpetrators want them watched. So that's one very good reason not to watch them I think. One could even make a case that watching them voluntarily gives the watcher a degree of complicity in the act, and makes more such acts more likely. (Actually, even just talking about them helps the perps. believe they have achieved their aims).

On a more personal basis, I simply don't want those images in my memory bank, no way.

Second Journo held by ISIS thretened

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/steven-sotloff-isis-threatens-second-journalist-after-beheading-of-james-foley-9680129.html

the beheading of innocents and the bombing of the people responsible with drones are incomparable

what about the bombing of innocents? or is 'collateral damage' acceptable if you don't have to look at it up close?

the beheading of innocents and the bombing of the people responsible with drones are incomparable.

Maybe to you. However to many muslims the drone attacks are very comparable. In fact when you look at all the outrage in the west from one execution, imagine that happening on a weekly basis where there are multiple victims and not just one, and where the executioners are sat in a control room on another continent. There is understandable horror at the method of this murder, but do you think a 1000lb bomb cutting to pieces anyone within a 100m radius is any less horrific?

The acts are performed to make content for the videos, the videos are made because the perpetrators want them watched. So that's one very good reason not to watch them I think. One could even make a case that watching them voluntarily gives the watcher a degree of complicity in the act, and makes more such acts more likely. (Actually, even just talking about them helps the perps. believe they have achieved their aims).

+1

The media shouldn't be discussing it in the headlines, in the back pages of broadsheets yes, running the story on the front page of the Daily Fail just encourages it.

@RaveyDavey - have they affected you (other than to confirm your view of the individuals/organisations) ?

Anyone who watches these videos and isn't affected needs to seek help! I have seen some awful things in real life that were worse than this but not delivered in such a callous and cold hearted manner. It suggests to me that psycopathic or sociopathic behaviour (i'm never quite sure of the difference)isn't necessarily there from birth.

yes its the daily Mails fault they did it

Liking your logic tom