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Yes I saw that, embarrasingly I suppose I don't understand the scoring 😳
USA get a point because they won the challengers round robin stage. (I guess because they didn't have to take part in that bit, as defenders, but it made it a bit more interesting.)
3-0 up.... looking good.
We've been here before though 🙁 I suppose this time there is perhaps less scope for any miracle comeback
Warched it in the pub yesterday before an evening ride. Very entertaining.
Very entertaining. [list]To be honest, the racing has been better in previous rounds.
So - Lets say TNZ hold it together and win.
They are the [u]only[/u] team that has not signed up to the proposed new rules ( Basically the same boats again - AC competitions every two years with some world series type racing beforehand - much like this time).
However, they would have the right as winners to decide the rules of the next cup, they could decide to race it in Optimists in Alaska if they wished or back to big slow mono-hulls in 5 years time. (which would kill the commercial and technical momentum making it much harder to get sponsorship)
Does anyone know what it was they did not like about the proposed rules? do they just want them tweaked or are they going to junk them completely?
It always the winners privilige to decide the format. NZ are not going to take the event backwards imo, what they may do is try and avoid the historical issue of the team with the most money winning (eg last cup Oracle $400-500m, NZ $250m)
A NZ win would be a massive step forward for the Cup
Hopefully they'll ditch the 5 day break we're currently on during which the US team disappear off and spends millions [s]copying[/s] designing/producing new kit based on the work that the other teams have done.
..... bunch of
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Suppose they got rid of almost all the rules on boat design, just requiring the boats to be wind powered and only human power for sail trimming etc. (and maybe a limit on the number of crew). What would the boats look like - very similar to what we have now, but a bit bigger?
What would the boats look like
It would be [i]boat[/i], not [i]boats[/i]. Only Oracle would be able to afford it, nobody else would turn up.
Doubt they'd be a lot different at all seeing as they're hitting 40 knots now - the AC72 didn't go any quicker.
It would probably depend on the sailing venue and wind expected.
Hopefully they'll ditch the 5 day break we're currently on during which the US team disappear off and spends millions copying designing/producing new kit based on the work that the other teams have done.
From what the resident experts were saying yesterday on BT Sport the rules prevent them making major changes to their design.
Suppose they got rid of almost all the rules on boat design, just requiring the boats to be wind powered and only human power for sail trimming. What would the boats look like?
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Not consistently and def not in 10 knots of wind BigJohn.
Well that was kind of where I was coming from-
The Hulls and the wing size and sail size is a fixed design. The stated aim of that is to reduce budgets - surely that is a good thing that you would vote to keep.
The only thing that can be changed is the foils and rudders
but when foiling they are the [b]only[/b] bits in the water so in that sense the design is unrestricted.
There is a big difference in the performance of the foils and it is obviously not easy to get right bearing in mind that Martin Whitmarsh who did all the aero for Redbull F1 was working for BAR and they did not get it right.
These work well in light winds.
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And go round corners
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Mind you, You wouldn't get much change out of £5,000 for a board/sail/foil combo that would compete with Oracle.
Martin Whitmarsh who did all the aero for Redbull F1
No, he didn't...that was Adrian Newey
To be fair, this would give Oracle a run for its money at the moment 🙂
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🙂
My 2 cents. Someone (no matter how talented) working for an F1 team has no experience of hydro foils with different dynamics amd requirements amd operating at very dofferwmt soeeds amd in a different fluid. You wouldn't expect a top hydrofoil soealist to jump into F1 and be competitve first time round.
[quote=sharkbait ]To be fair, this would give Oracle a run for its money at the moment
Want. Even though I hated Oppies I still want.
Interesting read I thought, second half maybe less so as its speculation on the future events
Martin Whitmarsh who did all the aero for Redbull F1 was working for BAR
Whitmarsh was team principle for Mclaren, you're thinking of Adrian Newey who was with Red Bull and then BAR. He was also at Williams and Mclaren at times too. Usually when an f1 team is successful it's because he works for them.
Though it should be mentioned that Newey has also worked with LR-BAR. I'm not sure how much and clearly he still has his day job, but he has supposedly had some input.
Oracle out on The Great Sound this afternoon. We got a flyby too. About 20m away, full noise (literally) and liking good. But, they were still landing significantly often...
Our guests had a private tour around the Oracle team base, where amongst other things, Soft Bank was being cannibalised for their parts!!
It'll be interesting to see what happens on Saturday. It'd be awesome to see the Kiwis win before leaving!
Well it's getting late in the day for significant changes to Oracles boat now, so speculative guesswork could suggest an increase in boat speed by 5% ... but that's still falling short of ETNZ all round skill level and speed.
My punt would be that Oracle win the first race on Saturday, then ETNZ win all the others.
Larry Ellison will be quite annoyed at the moment.
Lets hope the design rules have stopped LE from throwing another massive cheque at the problem.
I'm not sure I can see Oracle coming back from this but we'll find out on Saturday.
I suspect that they'll close the gap a bit and win the starts but ultimately ETNZ will just sail round them upwind as that seems to be where they have a biggest advantage.
Sounds good Jerry.... another perk of the job 😉
If they're touching down I wonder if they've tried altering the wing trimming system as this seems to be one of the major differences to ETNZ - or they could just be trying some new foil design.
I'd love to see how that wind trimming system works seeing as it's controlled 100% digitally. I bet this could be the biggest factor in the speed difference - I know a lot has been made of the foils but that might just be because they're actually visible while the control system is basically hidden.
How ironic it would be if Oracle was beaten by software!
You've also got to wonder if ETNZ were sandbagging during the RR - I really hope so 🙂
😯
Emphatically ETNZ...
Should we say "finally" a boat race ?
Nice boat on boat action, OTUSA win 1 !! 😯
Ohhhh that were grand 😀
Yup. Apart for the result, obviously...
Apart from the wrong winner....grand.
😯
5:1 up !!
Septics are making a baboons arse of it today.
6:1
Did you see OTUSA's gybe set at the bottom mark ? Someone ought to tell Mr Spitt's that there ain't no kite on these things. Stuffed up at the start, hooked good and proper.. Pete was given all the time in the world to bear off.. nobody gives anyone that much time.. and then.. to cap it.. a boundary infringement ?? Flapping all over the course, short tacking, loosing speed, gaining speed to then throw another short tack in ? Ok, it's match racing Jimmy but not as we know it.
More emphatic wins by ETNZ you simply can not find.
Not watched the races yet (only just back from daughters athletics comp) but jim spit does seem to have lost his touch.
Great results though. Shame it's got to end.
forgot....
So, the Oracle win yesterday..... was that a ETNZ marketing ploy? Keep the racing going, more earnings and exposure for the sponsors.
They built a 250m lead fairly easily in one leg and then 'lost' it.... today though, two bullets.
hmm, fishy.
They did'nt cover Oracle yesterday and got got caught on the wrong side of a shift/pressure in changeable conditions.Which then put them on a port crossing of Oracle to round the windward mark and had to dip hard.And that was Jenga.
A bit naive/over confident of Burling.....he does'nt make the same mistake twice!!
What would the boats look like - very similar to what we have now, but a bit bigger?
This?
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They did'nt cover Oracle yesterday and got got caught on the wrong side of a shift/pressure in changeable conditions
Yes but they've not missed anything previous to this 😉
Anyhoo, it's all going to be academic 9 hours time!
I was in Auckland the last time they were 1 win away from taking it. Sat on the balcony of a uni building looking out to sea where it would probably be hosted when they won.....
Nothing is won until it's won
Nah, the yanks are stuffed this time. They've made the boat a bit quicker but more unstable and they've basically been outsailed at every point - that's not going to change.
Yesterday was crunch time for them.
Boom!!!
7:1
ETNZ Win the Americas Cup.
😆 😯
Shame...could be worse tho, could be a team from Oz! 🙂
8)
Happy Days. Best thing that could happen to the cup. Alinghi will be back now too 🙂
Good to see Daltz smiling 😀
Well, they made that look easy. Good news for the future of the competition.
Overall though, once you get used to the novelty factor of the wacky racer 'flying boats' I don't think it is better watching or racing than displacement vessel proper yacht racing.
I don't think it is better watching or racing than displacement vessel proper yacht racing.
Really? No sorry you're just plain wrong there.
The main issue they still have though is that's it's still not a spectator sport as the boats are still (and will always be) over 1km away until the finish. I thought the TV coverage (the actual filming not BT) was great though and the drone footage was superb.
Brilliant result which was never in any doubt after yesterday.
It was the perfect race to finish on; oracle didn't make a single mistake, ETNZ simply sailed round them. Although Oracle managed to get the boat to go the same speed upwind, ETNZ sailed better angles 100% ofthe time and it was simply a question of when they'd go past them - not 'if'.
Also perfect teamwork on the NZ boat - it was a joy to watch.
Well done to them.... here's to the next one.
PS. The AC web site sucks too - probably run by the Yanks
.. and bikes too !
Forgot say.... very pleased to see Spitball put back in his box - showed himself to be extremely average (if that).
.. and bikes too !
So, obviously, what chainset for an AC foiler?
Italians the next Challenger ??
What was Daltz on about in the press conference? And a challenge from he RYS too ??
What's the advantage in being the challenger?
Don't think there is one.
I don't think that the country could have handled a repeat of the last Cup.
What's the advantage in being the challenger?
Challenger of record does the negotiating with the holder.
Be interesting to see what the format is next time, whether they return to Auckland for the finals with the increase in European/decline in American interest, time zone differences, sponsorship requirements and whether the NZ government will invest heavily again.
Rumour is that Dubai is going to build the worlds largest indoor sailing arena, totally enclosed, with mechanical wind generation, to ensure wind dependability and consistency. 😉
Can't see the point of building an indoor arena to hold the Cup (if that's what you imply)
Challenger doesn't do a lot other than stick money into the programme and has some headline bragging rights, and the glamour obvz.
Be nice to see the cup off Punta Alla or Thailand..
The deed of gift for the cup used to stipulate that the races had to be held on the sea or an arm of the sea. Designed to stop those pesky Canadians bringing their fast lake yachts to the party.
Italians delivered their challenge on the water before the Kiwis got ashore (I believe). Alinghi are widely expected to be joint/co challenger of record. Ainslie expects to go again.
Just to reiterate delighted to see the Kiwis win and Spithill made to look ordinary under pressure, fabulous sailor that he is but just too cocky for me.
I too am pleased for the Kiwi's - a good win, shame our team were not up to the task.
Designed to stop those pesky Canadians bringing their fast lake yachts to the party.
We can play that game, and then some....
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