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The TV remote isn’t a great example really. Everyone knows about channel hopping, light setting hopping not so much.
Ah, but, we routinely channel-hop because of the TV remote. No-one knew about channel-hopping before it became a ubiquitous device (and we had more than three channels).
This is where we are with voice controlled hardware, as @frogstomp said before it's technology in its infancy. We don't know what we can do with it fully yet, in a few years time we may all be going "well sure, everyone knows about light dimming and smart heating..." and conveniently forgetting the good old days having to get up to turn the light on, only having it on or off, and being stuck with one colour. And that's just one application, as a long-previous halfwit manager once said to me, "make me a list of all the things you haven't thought of."
I have a £1000 mobile phone with Siri on it. I do not see the need to spend another £200 or whatever to buy something that does the same thing.
You're right of course, there's little point in duplicating functionality you already have. But by the same argument I have a £50 bluetooth speaker with Alexa, I do not see the need to spend £1,000 on a phone which does the same thing.
Not that they're exactly the same, there are pros and cons to having a fixed device over a mobile. Your phone is usually with you, which is more convenient for you but not so much for the rest of the family who are sat at home whilst you're out. Plus the Echo is a capable wireless speaker.
The TV remote isn’t a great example really. Everyone knows about channel hopping, light setting hopping not so much.
Our first TV with remote had 4 channels I think. Pre-remote my brother and I always used to argue about who's turn it was to change channel during ads etc. If someone had posted at the time for £50 you could get a device to do it without getting off your sofa I'm sure quite a few people would have posted what a waste of money that is. Sure, as time has gone on the TV remote is more useful (you can even web browse via one if you want to) but I'm sure the same will be said about smart home speakers
I have a £1000 mobile phone with Siri on it. I do not see the need to spend another £200 or whatever to buy something that does the same thing.
Yeah they're £39 so seems a bit daft to brag about your £1000 phone.
The TV remote isn’t a great example really. Everyone knows about channel hopping, light setting hopping not so much.
My new TV has a voice recognition remote. It's a gimmick but it's great.
For all those using Alexa, etc, if MI5 had come up with a device that listened to what was going on in your home so you could control things would you use it? That’s no different to what Amazon, Google, et al. are doing.
Not really.
Using Alexa etc benefits us, and we decide to give up a trivial amount of privacy (in our opinion) for a service we appreciate and let's not forget is free, in terms of money at least. We know what they say they are going to do with the data, and so far we trust them. They would be in legal trouble if they started doing something else with it.
MI5 are a security service, not an online shop, and they are able to do certain things with data collected about us in the name of security, and they don't have to tell us what they are doing nor can they be compelled to.
I have to say there is nothing folk are using these gadgets for that have any functionality for me. Nothing to entice me at all. But then I have my house hard wired for sound in every room and conventional light switches and heating controls
I don't remember anyone saying that installing your own home phone was pointless
I don't remember anyone saying TV remotes were a waste of time. (and you could quite easily "channel hop" before them)
I don't remember anyone saying satnavs were useless when they were new. (although I know I few people now who have found they prefer paper maps)
I all sounds like Fake History for the geek generation.
But then I have my house hard wired for sound in every room
That would be far too much of a ballache for me.
Nothing to entice me at all.
“Alexa....disagree with me about helmets” 😉
My tip would not be to put it near the telly box when you’re watching the match and Alexis Sanchez is playing
Mine's would be don't change the wake-up word to "computer" then decide to binge watch Star Trek - although it did manage to add Vulcan Tea to my shopping list during Discovery.
Novelty value - "Computer - engage self destruct"
Otherwise mostly music and timers. Had a problem getting local tide times though. Lighting is on a timer so if I'm up later than usual telling the echo to turn the lights on then off is easier than faffing about getting to the lights as I use side lights rather than the main room lights. When I move (soon), I'll probably fit hue lights to control the brightness levels as well
EDIT - I changed the wake up word to "Computer" because i didn't want to personalise the machine. But I still say "please"
The TV remote became a necessity when you got services like Teletext being broadcast rather than the slowly increasing number of channels.
I remember getting our first TV with remote because it had Teletext which was new at the time. It was back in the days when lots, including us, rented TVs, my dad was irritated that we'd not got the cheapest deal. But then he found he could use it to find beef and sheep prices at the various markets. Thinking back it might have had direct buttons for each of the four channels rather than using the digit buttons as you might these days to go to a particular channel.
@molgrips - I wasn't suggesting that MI5 start an online shopping mall but that many are happy for corporations to gather data on us for the purposes of selling us "stuff" (which is actually the business model behind Alexa) but seem not to be if that data were used for personal, societal, national security and safety.
I don’t remember anyone saying that installing your own home phone was pointless
I don’t remember anyone saying TV remotes were a waste of time. (and you could quite easily “channel hop” before them)
I don’t remember anyone saying satnavs were useless when they were new. (although I know I few people now who have found they prefer paper maps)
I all sounds like Fake History for the geek generation.
I certainly do and 1 of them was me for Sat Navs I still do but it's far easier now then when they first came out to use, especially with smartphones.
The TV remote became a necessity when you got services like Teletext being broadcast rather than the slowly increasing number of channels.
But if you were to design an interface for quickly selecting music, media, controlling linked devices which would it be? I've been in meeting rooms and smart offices where you trot over to the tablet and control everything from there, they will be the weird tech bubble of just behind the simpler version
I'll use the sat-nav feature on my phone if I need it, usually it's only part of a journey, most likely the end: I know my way to the M6 and how to drive up a motorway, it's just the lanes at the other end to get to my destination that I might not know. Always puzzles me when you see people on their commute* with their sat-nav on. Did they forget the route from the last 568 days they drove it?
*Yes it is their commute as I'd see them regularly as I biked past.
Did they forget the route from the last 568 days they drove it?
Nah, they've probably got it set to find the shortest queue of traffic to sit in...
If you're in that London, you can go and try all the Google Home stuff out in John Lewis...
https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/john-lewis-google-smart-home-try-a3987321.html
Did they forget the route from the last 568 days they drove it?
How do you know where they're going?
How do you know where they’re going?
Because where we passed (at circa 0830) was on the road to the office which was a dead end. So either their sat-nav was fubarred or they were going to work at one of four buildings along that 150 metre long road.
Always puzzles me when you see people on their commute* with their sat-nav on.
Maybe they can’t turn it off?
My wifes car needs the sat nav switched on to make the radio work as they’re all integrated into the same system. You can manually change the display to not display the navigation but it’s a faff to do it every time and its easier to just leave it on. You can’t change the default setting either
Because where we passed (at circa 0830) was on the road to the office which was a dead end. So either their sat-nav was fubarred or they were going to work at one of four buildings along that 150 metre long road.
Maybe it's their first day or maybe they weren't actually using the sat Nav.
Because where we passed (at circa 0830) was on the road to the office which was a dead end. So either their sat-nav was fubarred or they were going to work at one of four buildings along that 150 metre long road.
So responsibly they didn't fiddle with it while driving and waited until they had stopped? In current traffic levels and with a few choices getting to work knowing how to avoid problems is efficient. It also flags up and major issues much faster and lets you know if your are likely to be late.
Always puzzles me when you see people on their commute* with their sat-nav on.
Mine (on my phone) warns me of delays and how to avoid them. It's also set to start up automatically when it connects to the car bluetooth.
Good comment about accidents, delays, etc..
@perchypanther - that's stupid! Just another distraction in the car when the driver's attention should be on the road around them.
And guys - you really aren't picking up on the sarcasm in my posts 🙂 Are you Americans?
Edit: Where the f have the smiley's gone? That's two posts where the editor has replaced : - ) with a square.
@perchypanther – that’s stupid!
I’ve passed your comments along to Renault and TomTom. Thank you for your valuable feedback.
And guys – you really aren’t picking up on the sarcasm in my post
I though it was just the lack of imagination I find with most people who can't imagine what new tech can do
And guys – you really aren’t picking up on the sarcasm in my posts 🙂 Are you Americans?
Ah you're from Edinburgh.
I don’t remember anyone saying TV remotes were a waste of time.
I had this argument with my parents back when you'd to pay extra for one. "What would we want one of those for, the TV's only over there." Besides, they had a small child to go change the channels...
I don’t remember anyone saying satnavs were useless when they were new.
Again, I remember a number of folk turning up their noses at them when they first started getting popular. Aside from the "read a map" brigade, there was certainly STW levels of condescending pseudo-elitism in certain quarters from people who proudly wouldn't use one. I'd like to bet if we go back far enough there's a satnav thread on STW which parallels the recent "I'm so much better than yow because I don't have a TV" thread.
I all sounds like Fake History for the geek generation.
It sounds like you think that you not remembering something proves it didn't happen.
Aside from the “read a map” brigade, there was certainly STW levels of condescending pseudo-elitism in certain quarters from people who proudly wouldn’t use one.
Hi there!
Ah you’re from Edinburgh.
Could be worse - I've been accused of being from Yorkshire before now!
I though it was just the lack of imagination I find with most people who can’t imagine what new tech can do
Not at all. I know what it can do, I've just no need for it.
I’ve passed your comments along to Renault and TomTom.
Thank you - someone needs to tell them. While you're at it, tell them to get rid of idiot lights as well.
rocket jr was explaining to his grandparents how his homekit DETECTS WHEN HE'S NEAR HIS FLAT and SWITCHES THE LIGHTS ON AUTOMATICALLY
Like sorcery
Using geofencing or just when in range of his wifi/bluetooth? Either is do-able. No dark arts required.
tell them to get rid of idiot lights
What are idiot lights?
What are idiot lights?
I think those ghaslty ones that are hardwired.
What are idiot lights?
You see that switch on the wall?
Press it and look up....😉
😉
What are idiot lights?
Daylight running lights - whoever came up with the idea should be hung up by the genitals until they apologise. Round here you'll get people driving in fog with just those. I've also followed a couple of drivers at night with just those on. Really scary.
Daylight running lights – whoever came up with the idea should be hung up by the genitals until they apologise.
Why? And car makers have to fit them anyway as legislation changed ages ago saying all new cars have to have them as standard.
“Alexa, remind me to turn my lights on when it gets dark”
more convenient for you but not so much for the rest of the family
Well we each have a phone phone and a shared iPad so no problems with access
All can control said equipment.
Drac no one is bragging about £1000 phones more to the point that a lot of people do have expensive phones and technology in the home that can do this, without having to purchase something else
Daylight running lights – whoever came up with the idea should be hung up by the genitals until they apologise. Round here you’ll get people driving in fog with just those. I’ve also followed a couple of drivers at night with just those on. Really scary.
Surely better than following them with no lights on, at least there is something lit from the front.
@johndoh - really? That is utterly stupid. Surely better to have lights front and rear like Volvo do. Better would be to have a simple on-off switch, if on and the car is moving then main dipped beam and rear lights are on. If the car is not moving then it's parking lights. Up to driver when to choose full beam.
Edit: You are right - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights/daytime-running-lights Our car is nine years old so predates that. Still think they've missed a trick in not mandating rear lights at the same time.
We've called our dog 'Alex'
This has caused us no end of problems with our 'Alexa'
So much so we've had to get rid!
House smells much better and no more walks or poo picking and don't have to get up to switch radio on.
Win win.
DTRL are a very very good thing, agree they should have taken the opportunity to include the rear lights too.. but hey, maybe take all decision making from the blob out of the equation too.
@Tiger6791: ...or you could have just changed the Alexa wake word to something else...
I tried to get Alexa to work via my kindle for playing Deezer through my Audio Pro speakers. It just kept defaulting to albums that I’d bought on Amazon ages ago. At that point I basically rage quit and haven’t attempted to use it since. Might give it another go at some point.
So for the echo ists amongst you - can i change the name of devices without having to use the mobile ap? (Eg through the web interface.) If i can I'm damned if i can figure it out.
DTRL are a very very good thing, agree they should have taken the opportunity to include the rear lights too.. but hey, maybe take all decision making from the blob out of the equation too
I wonder if they decided not to as they might impair the visibility of brake lights? Bear in mind they are designed to be very bright to be seen during daylight hours.
More likely the manufacturers didn't want the cost. Maybe that's just me being cynical.
No reason for them to be retina singeing bright. Volvo manage it. A slight aside (from this aside), when we went to Iceland a couple of years ago we rented a car. Driving away from the airport I noticed that every car had its lights on in the middle of the day so thought I'd better turn ours on. Turned out it was a legal requirement but the car hire company forgot to tell us.
Turned out it was a legal requirement but the car hire company forgot to tell us.
Turned out it was a legal requirement but you neglected to check what was needed before you drove in a foreign country? (-:
Turned out it was a legal requirement but you neglected to check what was needed before you drove in a foreign country?
Yep :oops
many are happy for corporations to gather data on us for the purposes of selling us “stuff” (which is actually the business model behind Alexa) but seem not to be if that data were used for personal, societal, national security and safety.
Amazon &co publish terms and conditions to which you agree. You are protected by law if they transgress (in theory). You know what they are using it for.
National security services are opaque for obvious reasons.
You've misread what I was saying. I'm not saying Amazon would pass the data on - in fact there's a case reported on the BBC at the moment where they are refusing to provide such data to a court for a murder trial unless the proper legal request is made.
People appear fine for Amazon et al. to use data about them to sell them "stuff" but not if the security services had a similar data collecting device and used similar data to keep them safe.
People appear fine for Amazon et al. to use data about them to sell them “stuff” but not if the security services had a similar data collecting device and used similar data to keep them safe.
How do you know that? What information do you mean? Like my spending habits? Or my Music tastes? I think you are stretching a point there. As above it's not a listening device.
How do you enable porn mode, you know, clear the cookies and delete history, etc, once you've finished?
People appear fine for Amazon et al. to use data about them to sell them “stuff” but not if the security services had a similar data collecting device and used similar data to keep them safe.
I wouldn't be totally against some sort of government snooping device in my house but it would have to either be terrorism etc. was so rife it made a difference for national security or had some other tangible benefit.
I'm perfectly aware Amazon collect and analyse data, it's their core business and yes there's a certain amount of trust involved that when they say they only record data after the wake word activation etc. that that's what they're really doing (such companies don't have a great track record when it comes to trust but directly violating something like that would do serious damage to their business for probably little reward as there would be too much data, with little context, to analyse in a meaningful way).
If Amazon packages started arriving at my door that Alexa had ordered automatically as she thought I might need them that would be a step too far (I'm not talking Dash buttons here) but even then I'm sure it would be a feature you could turn off.
People appear fine for Amazon et al. to use data about them to sell them “stuff” but not if the security services had a similar data collecting device and used similar data to keep them safe.
I'm not sure the security services knowing I've just put red onions on my shopping list will keep me safe.
Wow this thread (previous page at least) just seems to be a bunch of grumpy old men whinging about technology/privacy. I was hoping for some tips n tricks for Alexa.
I have an Echo Dot & Philips Hue system arriving today. Hopefully I'll be able to automate some of the lights, so they come on before I get home and turn on certain lights when we're not home. I've ordered a new LED strip controller so I'll be able to add that to the Hue system too.
I'll be having a play with the system this weekend, as I know you can set a timer and have the lights blink. I'm trying to think of a real world use... Maybe have the lights blink red when another person gets home, I'm struggling for an automated use.
Obviously I'll be doing the standard stuff with Hue, set moods/groups. Turning off lights at night, having bedroom lights increase in brightness in the morning. Get the bulbs to turn to a warm white at night and have a few automated for movement & light level.
I have a few things I want to try, restarting my server can be a pain, no screen or keyboard, so I will try and get Alexa to do that. Apparently Alexa can work with Plex too, which might be handy as the app seems quite slow on the TV. Hopefully I can get Alexa to work with my 3D printer, it currently messages me when it's finished or there is an error, but it would be nice if it sounded this out through Alexa as I generally don't have my phone with me around the house.
Hopefully with the Harmony Hub that I've never used, I'll add commands to turn on the TV/Amp and set volume, mode, etc. Eg. "Alexa Blackout mode"... dim living room lights, turn on TV & amp, change amp to game mode and set volume, not sure it can turn on the PS4. Hopefully I'll also be able to add something "Alexa set TV to night mode" which will reduce the screen brightness, turn the colour to a warm white, etc". I may be able to automate some of these tasks, so in the morning it turns it back to daytime colours/brightness/etc and then I can manually enable night mode.
Got loads to try, most of it not essential, but definitely easier than me pressing a million buttons a night trying to set it, thinking to myself "why can i not automate this with something like a macro, in 2018 it should be possible". Maybe it is now 😉
My parents have a smart washing machine. They are bemused by the concept, it jsut came free with the machine they wanted. But I can see how it might be useful - load the machine up before you go out for the day, and have it start the cycle when you are say 90 mins from home so the washing doesn't end up sitting in there for too long.
Could also work for ovens. I also fancy having a smart socket on my coffee machine so it switches on to warm up at 7am and turns off at 9 if I've forgotten to turn it off.
Hopefully with the Harmony Hub that I’ve never used, I’ll add commands to turn on the TV/Amp and set volume, mode, etc
Interested to see how easy you find it. I bought a Harmony in last year's Black Friday sale, got as far as plugging it in but not actually configured or used it yet :p
If you're just starting off with Hue stuff be prepared to get annoyed at other people turning off the light switches
But I can see how it might be useful – load the machine up before you go out for the day, and have it start the cycle when you are say 90 mins from home so the washing doesn’t end up sitting in there for too long.
To me, as an STW approved luddite, that does seem like really trying to find a reason for it to be smart. E.g. I just set our washing machine to come on at 5.30am and put the washing out first thing when I get up to feed the cats at 7am. When I come home from work it's dry. Now a washing line which could take the washing in if it starts raining, might be of use. And before any suggests, I have tried training the cats but they're just not remotely interested.
To me, as an STW approved luddite, that does seem like really trying to find a reason for it to be smart.
Take the next step in that, with a smart meter and/or solar/batteries it can work out when you have enough charge or the price is lower and start high load activities like washing machine and dishwasher, or sequence them so they only use renewable rather than grid electric
I just set our washing machine to come on at 5.30am and put the washing out first thing when I get up to feed the cats at 7am. When I come home from work it’s dry.
Yeah, me too, but life doesn't always run as clockwork. Sometime you need ad-hoc capabilities.
But the point is, it's trivially cheap to fit this capability, and if you fit it eventually someone will find a use for it.
Hopefully with the Harmony Hub that I’ve never used,
Post how you get on with it - I read that it can be slow so you can say something, wait, wait, say it again, then it responds. Twice. As someone who spends a lot of time looking for remotes, voice control would be handy
I have a £1000 mobile phone with Siri on it. I do not see the need to spend another £200 or whatever to buy something that does the same thing.
A 2nd Gen Echo Dot is £20 in the Black Friday sale!
3rd gen is £25.
I'm going to put this tech to the test - mk3 Dot arriving today along with a Smart Plug. Current thinking is to start by connecting the Dot to a bluetooth speaker. As i don't want the speaker powered up all the time i'll use the Dot to turn it on at the plug (need to remind myself what happens when the speaker is plugged into the wall) then connect to it. Any flaws in that plan (other than the part about the speaker beign powered up)?
*not really, i'll barely scratch the surface until the toddler takes over
Think that should work @legend. I have a Mk2 Dot and it is perfectly usable without an external speaker so you'll probably find you only bother powering up the speaker when you want some loud music.
My Harmony arrived yesterday. I gave it quick setup last night but not fully, I can now command the TV by voice without looking for the voice remote, it also controls my PS4. The harmony located all smart lights in the house so I can control even the ones not linked to my Alexa.
Looking good so far.
Think that should work @legend. I have a Mk2 Dot and it is perfectly usable without an external speaker so you’ll probably find you only bother powering up the speaker when you want some loud music.
Makes sense, will see how it gets on without the speaker to start with - then I'll need to find something else to attach the plug to though 🙂