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Yeah, nothing at all to show that it belongs to you. In fact upon first viewing it looks like a 'simulated pavement'.
The notice IMHO would make no difference.
Put some planters/half barrels of flowers to mark out/block off and wait for the inevitable squeals and if someone wants to claim to the council its a 'pavement/walkway' await any letter. If you do have to remove them for whatever you can without incurring much expense than digging into the concrete.
I guarantee you someone will try to invoke the council....
Why is the upstairs window bricked up? Oh, and the downstairs one!
In my utterly unqualified opinion, that looks like a footpath to me. Feels like it’s been made the same level of the road to enable large vehicles to get in and out easier.
Would be interesting to see that original planning application.
My parent’s road has similar…
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The footway on the left is barely raised above the road, and there is actually the same on the right hand side that whilst owned by the houses, you’re not supposed to do anything with.
Reading the start of this i was fully behind you. Kil them all etc etc, bollards, wheel clamps, land mines etc.
But that picture tells a different stroy. I wouldnt expect anyone to see that strip of tarmac as yours. Best youll get is a no parking sign i bet.
that said. if people are being arses then be an arse back. Id go and park my car on their drive and go on holiday or something 🙂
Have a look at your deeds to see if it mentions an easement. You may own it but if it is classed as a service strip you would have no right to build on it.
Why is the upstairs window bricked up? Oh, and the downstairs one!
Its a external design feature, the OP probably has kitchen cupboards on that wall or a wardrobe up stairs.
But that picture tells a different stroy.
Looks like a pavement, quacks like a pavement.
The deeds have no restrictions or covenants on use?
Its a external design feature, the OP probably has kitchen cupboards on that wall or a wardrobe up stairs.
I thought this was ridiculous too - apparently it was a condition of getting planning permission.
But that picture tells a different stroy. I wouldnt expect anyone to see that strip of tarmac as yours. Best youll get is a no parking sign i bet.
Except it's not Schrodingers tarmac...
"anyone" or neighbours?
If neighbours I'd expect the neighbours who treat their tarmac as theirs to treat the OP's as the OP's...
If tradesmen contracted by neighbours or visitors to neighbours ... then I'd expect the neighbours know and they should tell them....
If DHL etc. erm yep... fine but OP doesn't seem to mind that.
Also if the OP is responsible for maintaining it then HGV's or unloading heavy stuff is quickly going to mean they have to pay to repair it.
The problem you got here is that there is absolutely nothing to signify that it is anything other than a public road. If I parked there and you came out whining, I'd write you off as a curtain twitcher and tell you to bog off.
If - IF - it is actually your property as you say then you need some sort of demarcation. It is frankly a bloody weird design, it's not surprising that people might be confused. It might be common where you live but I've never seen anything like that before.
Out of interest, what's further "this way," towards where the camera was pointing from? Ie, a 180' view from there? Is it a through road or is it broadly a mirror of what we can see in the photo, another turning point / dead end / driveway?
I thought this was ridiculous too – apparently it was a condition of getting planning permission
Every building needs balanced fenestration aesthetics.
That looks fine, i might come and park there myself.
Also,
Are you certain that the boundary isn't the white line where the drain is? That'd make a lot more sense (in my layman mind) than extending halfway across what looks to be a fairly narrow road.
Like others, having seen the photo it looks like the best you might be able to do is perhaps place something like large, heavy, substantial planters next to your wall such that any vehicle wanting to park there would be squeezing the road space available (especially in the bit near your entrance) and making driving access to the houses beyond your difficult. In that wy you wouldn't look the "bad guy" but those parking there would be the culprits. People walking past wouldn't be affected unless people had parked there.. Possible???
Looks quiet and out of the way. Someone should put it on Park4Night 🤭
i’ve read the first page and the last page. if it is a pavement and people are blocking it while parked are they committing an offence? if so, report them.
Am I being a knob (parking related content)
Yes 😀
Are you certain that the boundary isn’t the white line where the drain is? That’d make a lot more sense (in my layman mind) than extending halfway across what looks to be a fairly narrow road.
Indeed. If the OP put a planter up to the red line would the road not be blocked? Assuming OP is correct. Is the land owned but access required to be maintained? So doing anything out at the red line would be a no no. Planters far enough out that parkers would block the road?
No, OP is not being a knob.
What is essential is a clear and definitive statement from the local authority regarding the area in question - who owns it; what are their responsibilities; who maintains it; what are the access requirements; what limits are there on the owner regarding what they can/cannot do.
Without answers to those questions everything else is just semantics.
I wonder idly,
Boundary lines on deeds don't always tend to be all that precise, certainly on older properties. I'd hope newer builds would be better but... 🤷♂️ The land boundaries on my deeds look to have been drawn with a Sharpie, which to scale would be several feet wide. (I also have legal access rights to the back street to drive my horse, much to my mother's excitement.)
From the photo the land highlighted forms part of the highway. Yes, you own it but do not have any rights over it.
My neighbour has a similar situation and used planters to stop people parking in front of the windows on the side of the house. Local Council Highways came out pretty quickly and she had to remove them as she was obstructing the highway.
Honestly @Flaperon, I think the only real "benefit" you're going to get from that is any repairs will be at your cost. Look at it from the "bloke on the clapham omni-bus" perspective. would he/she feel that they could park there if they were visiting friends who lived in the other houses? Your neighbours rightly or wrongly are going to treat that as parking space, I know I would.
You could absolutely do something to stop people parking there, and you're neighbours will think you're a knob. Sorry.
Oh my days - some developers/planners need a slap. What is that even meant to be? What is the purpose of the white line? A pavement demarcation? A parking demarcation? As above, if that really is your land, it's just yours to bum you for costs in the future if the roads needs digging up/ resurfacing. Or does every house own a chunk of the road in front of them in some sort of way to carve up the costs/responsibility. Is the road adopted?
I'd be treating that a fair play parking (apart from obviously blocking you in or making you turning out of your drive impossible) and certainly not be thinking you had any sort of rights to it or I had to ask your permission. It might be a bit 'aesthetically' unpleasing to have vehicles parked there....but then again you bought a house with two fake/bricked up windows - so maybe aesthetics are not high on your priorities!
So in conclusion...."Am I being a knob (parking related content)" - afraid so.
With added photo I can see that it looks considerably like a walk way.
Anyone parking on its pulling a dick move not because you own it but because it's clearly a walkway not parking.
The problem you got here is that there is absolutely nothing to signify that it is anything other than a public road. If I parked there and you came out whining, I’d write you off as a curtain twitcher and tell you to bog off.
Everyone owns an equal chunk of the road outside their house. One of the neighbours (who doesn’t park there…) told me that I own the extra strip because I have a single driveway and everyone else has three spaces. Made sense at the time. Same neighbour also said that the others know exactly who owns what, so that argument doesn’t wash.
Cougar - there’s a big sign on the way in saying Private Road, which we all contributed to.
Looks like a half arsed pavement. Therefore anybody that parks on it, including the OP, would fall in the dickhead category. Parking there would force pedestrians in to a very narrow road. I think you’ll find you own it in the sense that you’re responsible for it but can’t do anything with it.
Same neighbour also said that the others know exactly who owns what, so that argument doesn’t wash.
Sure, and I bet they're saying to themselves "Well, @Flaperon doesn't seem to mind, they've never said that I can't park here, so happy days."
Which still brigs us back to your original choices, do something about it, and have your neighbours think you're a knob, or do nothing, get on with your life, and the neighbours think that you're an OK sort. If you all share the stuff like buying a sign and presumably repairing the road, life will be a bunch easier for you if the rest of the folks don't think you're "The idiot at no3 who gets wound up if you park in that otherwise empty bit of road that just happens to be outside their house"
At the end of the day, it's only as annoying as you let it be.
Is it in the deeds. Just because a neighbour told you it is yours doesn’t mean it is.
The way you’ve written the above sounds as if you didn’t know it was yours until he told you.
If it is yours I’m guessing it might still have communal access rights to it. Again what do the deeds say.
There’s a guy that moved into the house across the road from my mum who seems to think the lay by off the road outside his house is for his car only and belongs to him when it clearly doesn’t and has been used by other residents for 40 odd years
He comes out and has a word with folks who park there, however the residents just ignore him. Point is, even if the land does belong to you, if it’s not obvious then folks will probably just think you are being a chancer, like the guy across the road
You may well be right, I’m not a lawyer, but if you think how bridleways and footpaths work, they are public highways, but over somebody’s land.
...which suggests the obvious solution of planting a field of patatoes so nobody can see that there's supposed to be a path there. Seems to work round here.
Check your title deeds. Although you own it I suspect the public have certain rights of way etc. If it bothered me I'd be parking an old beater there.
I suspect everyone owns a similar section to avoid common land and communal service charges
Certianly looks like a pavement, and from an non-resident's point of view, they'd park there to avoid blocking the narrow road. We've bit's of 'jointly' owned land on our cul-de-sac. Neighbour opposite ha claimed the land opposite our house as their's as it's connected to part of their front garden. Wouldn't mind if they actually did some maintenance. We've also 6 parking spaces, I look after 3 of them near my house, but the other 3 at the other end of the street aren't looked after (i.e. boardered by bushes etc like ours).
It's awkward with no-mans land.
Ok that makes sense now. Yes you own it, no you dont get to have sole use of it. Its a private estate, the developer never had anynintention of having the council adopt it so they sold all the land with the houses, it's your liability rather asset. I'd also expect it's the service strip so any attempt to block it will get you in trouble.
Our estate is similar in that people own the land up to the kerb but the first 4 feet of garden is service strip and they aren't allowed to plant on it or block it. A few got into trouble when they first moved in. The idea was no pavement equals no pavement parking.
The bricked up windows are to make it look old and hark back to the window tax, people blocked up some windows to reduce their tax liabilities. This was several hundred years ago so the planning office are having a bit of a laugh.
IMHO are you being knob, probably, if it means that much put up 2 small signs either end of your wall and move on with you life (and buy some cones if you know you'll need it for deliveries). Final option, hire a permanent skip.
If the street is not adopted by the council have the council any interest in whether a footway has planters on it? Planters on the footway seems the only option.
This council website seems to say they are not interested in unadopted footways.
The different surfaces seems to indicate the middle is for vehicle movement. The edge for pedestrians. It was not intended as a parking area. The OP placing planters on his land without blocking the "road" or pedestrians would seem to be OK.
Assumimg, as OP says, that everyone has several off road parking spaces, then IMO the "knobs" are the ones choosing instead to park outside someone elses house.
I was hoping it was this dispute ?
Flaperon - I'm not sure what you are getting upset about?
What difference does it make to your life if someone parks there?
It's not the council who will kick off it's the utilities companies.
Not sure there is a problem for utilities. Planters chosen of a size where they can be moved if repquired but are heavy enough that people will park in their drive rather than move them.
Any example of where utilities have complained about movable planters on a footway where no work was ongoing?
One of the neighbours (who doesn’t park there…) told me that I own the extra strip...
...
Same neighbour also said that the others know exactly who owns what...
Sounds authorative.
Cougar – there’s a big sign on the way in saying Private Road, which we all contributed to.
Contributed how, is it official council signage?
Does it say "no parking"? A private road still allows access to those with a legitimate interest such as residents, couriers, tradesmen, emergency services... it's not going to restrict your neighbours from parking on "your" bit of road.
If someone hadn't mentioned that you officially own the land underneath that pavement, you'd be none the wiser, and probably not all that resentful at people who park on it.
Unless you factored in the extra land into your purchase price, you're not really paying your mortgage for people to park on it. It's like expecting Openreach to pay rent to you for running broadband cables under it.
Is the neighbour who told you doing anything to stop folk parking on 'his' bit? If you are the only one trying it, you will definitely look like a massive arse.
Best plan is to visit a hypnotist who can erase your memory of knowing that you own a bit of road and pavement.
If someone hadn’t mentioned that you officially own the land underneath that pavement, you’d be none the wiser, and probably not all that resentful at people who park on it.
Well, he said it's on the deeds.
However you slice it, it's a confusing street design. It's not a pavement, it's a bit of discoloured tarmac divided from another bit of tarmac by a white line. Pavement? Road? Public parking? Resident parking? Cyclepath? Driveway extension? Who knows. That's the real issue here, not whether the the OP is being a knob.
(Can we appropriate "am I being unreasonable?" here for STW? "AIBAK?")
It’s like expecting Openreach to pay rent to you for running broadband cables under it.
Actually seems quite reasonable.
My inlaws received a regular standing payment from the lectric people because there was a pylon on their land.
However you slice it, it’s a confusing street design.
The design doesn't look confusing at all, it's a classic footway. It sounds like the confusion is in the deeds. From the picture alone, it could be argued that nobody should be parking on there, including the OP, and I'm not convinced the deeds change that.
Haha, the i own this tiny bit of road/path/land situation. We have it here but to be fair our developer didnt make it such an issue. The mistake your developer made is putting the wall adjacent to it which makes your garden smaller and unusable. TBH it would be so much easier is, like ours he put a wall out 90degrees to the strip marking your outer boundary. We block paved over our small lawn they left as it was a target for similar parking in front and now it just looks like we have a massive driveway (No kerb and service strip is block paved identical to driveway) and no one has ever questioned it or parked on it. Its just a services strip and although its on my deeds, i have zero right to block it or ask others to move from it.
My dad has a similar attitude to OP on his 'bit of land'. He used to get all het up about people parking there etc. He owned the land, he would tell them. I called him a knob too. It was the bloody road and he looked a tool telling people not to park there.
The design doesn’t look confusing at all, it’s a classic footway.
A classic footway with no kerb that stops dead when it hits the front wall of someone's house? Where are you walking to, their living room window?
My dad has a similar attitude to OP on his ‘bit of land’. He used to get all het up about people parking there etc.
Yeah, and this is part of the problem. Most drivers have likely encountered folk like your dad. So when the OP tells men in vans that they need to ask his permission to park outside his house they will likely assume that he's just being a roaster and intentionally park there just to spite him. I would.
So when the OP tells men in vans that they need to ask his permission to park outside his house they will likely assume that he’s just being a roaster and intentionally park there just to spite him. I would.
need to ask his permission to park ̶o̶u̶t̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶ on his property.
I assume you don't use your spare bedroom all the time? Would it be OK if someone moved in on the basis that it was empty? What about private or council car parks? Do you refuse to pay there out of principle to spite the owner? Well, what's the difference?
I appreciate that you like to take a confrontational attitude to other people on here but I really think that it might help if you re-read posts before hitting submit and think about how it comes across.
I see where Flaperon is coming from, I wouldn't like it people kept parking big vans in front of my window or parking there instead of their own drives. Unfortunatley I don't think you have any rights over the land even though you technically you own it.
Its not a 'footway' its (probably) a shared use access arrangement which is why there are no kerbs, and that is more than likely a service strip, albiet a wide one. Which is why it only leads to the houses down the way and has a BT inspection chamber in it. This one is not the best example as they are usually deliniated with a shallow upstand kerb and block paved to differentiate between it and the (shared access) highway.
I would have though you'd get away with some temporay planters up against your wall to narrow it down a bit but other than that I'm not sure you would legally be able to do anything else....
I assume you don’t use your spare bedroom all the time? Would it be OK if someone moved in on the basis that it was empty? What about private or council car parks? Do you refuse to pay there out of principle to spite the owner? Well, what’s the difference?
Well there is quite a difference.
I really don't get why the OP cares. He has 1 car and a drive to keep it on.
If he's home he could always park on "his" property and then no one else could park there and block his view.
If he's not at home, what is he losing when someone parks on his property?
The white line is also a channel block that creates a smoother surface for water to run towards the drain, as its probably a really shallow grandient so flow needs some help. the road and servoce strip will fall towards thchannel blcok then flows run to the drain. You typically see channel blocks in front of kerbs where the longitudinal gradient is shallow, although some councils like York city, ask for them regardless of gradient.
what is he losing when someone parks on his property?
Light? A view of the lady in house oppsite?....
need to ask his permission to park ̶o̶u̶t̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶h̶o̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶ on his property.
You're missing my point. It is your property - as far as we know at least - but as I've said before there is nothing to demonstrate this. So irrespective of whether you're actually correct or not, from the outside looking in you're just another tedious ten-a-penny idiot who thinks that the public road outside their house is their own private parking space.
I assume you don’t use your spare bedroom all the time? Would it be OK if someone moved in on the basis that it was empty? What about private or council car parks? Do you refuse to pay there out of principle to spite the owner? Well, what’s the difference?
The difference is that it's blindingly obvious that my spare bedroom is private, being inside a house behind a locked door like every other spare room in the country, and a car park has signage displaying terms of use. You have, what, a bit of ambiguous white paint which according to you doesn't actually demark your property anyway?
I appreciate that you like to take a confrontational attitude to other people on here but I really think that it might help if you re-read posts before hitting submit and think about how it comes across.
I apologise if that's how you read it, I genuinely wasn't having a go. You asked in the OP, "am I being a knob?" Well, no, you aren't, but to a visiting roofer you probably look like you are.
As I said, fundamentally cars parked on this bit of land don't cause me a problem. I don't like having to ask someone to shift their car so a visitor can use the space because I find it embarrassing, but it's not the end of the world.
I'm also aware that it's not obviously my property, and I don't want to stick signs up. Also why I don't care about short term parking.
I suppose it comes down to the fact that my neighbour knows that it's my space but told his builders to park there to keep his own driveway clear. Likewise when the babysitter or relatives visit. And the thing is that if they asked - even to the degree of dropping me a one-sentence text message - I wouldn't have any problem at all, and if I wasn't in would tell them to park on my drive too.
So I guess it's the not being asked which bothers me, because it implies that they consider me as completely beneath them.
Cougar
You’re missing my point. It is your property – as far as we know at least – but as I’ve said before there is nothing to demonstrate this. So irrespective of whether you’re actually correct or not, from the outside looking in you’re just another tedious ten-a-penny idiot who thinks that the public road outside their house is their own private parking space.
But the neighbours KNOW that...
Flaperon isn't complaining about delivery drivers etc. but the neighbours using his land rather than theirs so they don't have the inconvenience of stuff parked on their land... or a construction vehicle parked outside their windows.
EVEN if this was a public road it's still polite for the neighbours to ask before they tell contractors to "just park outside the neighbours"... take the same delivery driver... there is no legal requirement to ask a neighbour BEFORE telling the delivery company to leave it with them if you're out... it's just polite.
Our front is public and one neighbour would ask before directing construction traffic etc. then only AFTER parking in front of them is full ... the other would direct construction traffic to neighbours so guess which one I don't accept deliveries for ???
So I guess it’s the not being asked which bothers me, because it implies that they consider me as completely beneath them.
I think you are over reaching this a bit.
I really think that your neighbours just think you wouldn't be bothered.
In your OP -
The problem is that it doesn’t directly cause *me* a problem
So if it doesn't cause you a problem, why would your neighbours think you would have a problem with it?
If I was you and it was causing me distress, then simply explain to your neighbours that it would be polite if they asked you before using the space?
So I guess it’s the not being asked which bothers me, because it implies that they consider me as completely beneath them.
Are you sure that's not an inference on your part?
You are at best sending mixed messages. You don't mind them parking except when you do. Your actual gripe is that they didn't ask you first, which is fair enough, but you say you'd have said yes anyway... so as a neighbour knowing that you're perfectly happy for them to use the space, why would they bother asking? What would be the point? Do you really want them knocking on your door when they come home from work every night? "Hi mate, I've been parking here for the last ten years now, just checking that you haven't changed your mind today."
I get it, I do. It'd irritate me too. But I think you either need to put up with it happening, or if it bothers you that much then you need to talk to your neighbours so that they understand your expectations. Maybe have them round for a cup of tea and a Powerpoint presentation. 😁
EVEN if this was a public road it’s still polite for the neighbours to ask before they tell contractors to “just park outside the neighbours”…
Maybe your local geography is different from mine but I don't think I've ever instructed contractors or delivery drivers where to park in the history of ever. They're like minicab drivers round here, they park where they like and bollocks to anyone else.
Anyway, it turns out I was being a knob because I just opened the door to the neighbour bearing a Christmas card with chocolates and a note apologising for the contractors parking outside my house.
Ouch - don't you just hate it when that happens. You will, forever, feel bad now.
What sort of chocolates?
Perhaps the neighbour lurks on this site…
What sort of chocolates?
A double decker...
Hopefully it’s not a box of novelty knob shaped choccies.
Cougar
Maybe your local geography is different from mine but I don’t think I’ve ever instructed contractors or delivery drivers where to park in the history of ever. They’re like minicab drivers round here, they park where they like and bollocks to anyone else.
Contractors and normal delivery drivers are two different beasties.
Getting 20 tonnes of hardcore delivered and unloaded or 5000 roof tiles or a 4 ton mini digger hire etc. is another matter. In my experience companies delivering those rarely deliver WITHOUT checking parking extensively...
The roof tiles is a real example as the neighbours asked in advance... but same neighbours asked to park in front of my house (on public road) when they were getting their extension conversion as well so the contractors didn't park in front of me (and made it easier to unload). The contractor came round WITH neighbour and asked and then offered to get an extra 100 and replace a few of the damaged ones on my roof.
One HUGE difference is anything NOT a permitted development is likely to have constraints on construction traffic in planning from highways especially if this has been raised as an objection.
Flaperon
Anyway, it turns out I was being a knob because I just opened the door to the neighbour bearing a Christmas card with chocolates and a note apologising for the contractors parking outside my house.
Still don't think you were being a knob, they should have at least asked ... HOWEVER I'd have taken the opportunity to gratefully receive choc's whilst saying "thank you - very much appreciated but it is actually my land and I'd appreciate you asking in advance if you can just in case I have informed someone to park there or I intend to whilst a visitor uses my drive"
Stupid design in the development, if you ask me. Its the developer saying "you all have shared responsibility for this non adopted access road", except when it comes to retarmccing the access, are you going to go out and have a seperate contractor do you individual bits?
If its yours, go and get some double yellows painted on your bit?
A double decker
This deserves acknowledgment!!😂😂
Re the askimg first.
Hi Flaperon, is ok to park outside ypur House all day today?
"umm no, sorry not today as my elderly relatives are all coming rpund for lunch, but thanks for asking, its usually ok as i dont use it much"
Can we have a classic footpaths thread? Mainly so I can find out what one is!
That would presumably be in the 'classics' part of a forum dedicated to such things. Like, Single Tracks... ah, oh.
This deserves acknowledgment!!😂😂
Yup. 👏
Perhaps the neighbour lurks on this site…
😬
In an exciting plot twist it turns out the neighbor is in fact @Cougar
And the chocolates are indeed knob-shaped.
Don't ask how I made the mould.
@squirrelking I think if I had to pick once decisive factor it'd have to be the word "knob" in the title.
I've just popped back having thought I'd avoid all the bickering for a couple of days. Can I have a summary and is knob status determined yet?
I would say after having seen the location then yes, you're being a dick....perhaps not as big a dick as the developers or those who granted planning permission.
Not as if there's a defined verge or area that looks as though it's attached to your property.
Suck it up or cause disruption and have a neighbourly dispute on the records when you come to sell it.
tomparkin
Full Member
@squirrelking I think if I had to pick once decisive factor it’d have to be the word “knob” in the title.
Disappointing. I'd hoped you were made of cake. 😀
Summary. He owns the road, but no one would ever know by the way its built. Neighbour just arrived with peace offering and apology
Knob Status = flaccid