[Closed] Allowances for working away from home

Don't forget to factor in the cost of coke and hookers.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim05231

I get £30 a night dinner allowance. Breakfast included in the room rate. Lunch is my own problem. Travel paid for by business.

What's a reasonable allowance for food, assuming that breakfast is already included with accommodation?

Allowance where I work is £20 for evening meal.

Those HMRC rates are ridiculous!

£15 for an evening meal? Wetherspoons for you laddie!

Our staff handbook has this to say:

[i]Expenses and Subsistence with overnight absence
All reasonable out of pocket expenses incurred by employees when on business
will be reimbursed when it is necessary to stay away from home overnight. These
will include:
? Hotel bills as above
? Breakfast should be included in room rate. When breakfast is not included
in the cost of a hotel stay employees may claim no more than £10
? Lunch to a reasonable level (maximum £10) will only be reimbursed if you
have stayed away the previous night and are not working in [our]
office that day. Lunches for internal meetings where no customers are
present are not permitted.
? Non alcoholic drinks/light snack whilst travelling in excess of 2 hours may
be claimed if the employee needs to stop and take a break (maximum £5).
? Evening meal and beverages where customers are not present be limited
to £25 without reasonable justification.
? Other personal incidental expenses such as parking and toll roads to a
reasonable level. The Company will reimburse the costs of laundry/drycleaning
if the business trip exceeds five days. VAT receipts must be
provided to support claims.[/i]

We have preferred hotels near to each office, and a discount agreement with one of the big chains (Premier Inn I think, could be wrong).

We get paid actuals.

policy is 'don't take the piss'.

£15 for an evening meal?

[quote=gobuchul ]Those HMRC rates are ridiculous!
£15 for an evening meal? Wetherspoons for you laddie!

HRMC rates are if you want to pay an allowance without having to provide receipts etc.

Thanks, that's broadly what I'd expected. Clearly the HMRC rate of £15 is "a bit out of date".

Its pretty easy to manage when you are paying out of your own pocket

I was thinking the same

I forget what our official rates are, but I go on £10 for lunch, £25 for dinner, £5 for "incidentals" (coffee, etc) being reasonable.

Screw any employer that's as tight as above over lunches - if they're making me leave any earlier than usual on the first day of travel, I won't have time to make any.

Yeah. It felt a bit weird when I first started needing to claim expenses, but the way I look at it is this. I'm doing work a favour by going out of my way, travelling, spending time away from home, sitting in a hotel room on my Jack Jones and so forth. If they're going to begrudge me Wi-Fi, coffee and a bag of chips they can find some bugger else to do it.

[i]We get paid actuals.
policy is 'don't take the piss'.[/I]

This.

[I]Its pretty easy to manage when you are paying out of your own pocket [/I]

Maybe once or twice but I had a month in East London just before Christmas and £15 barely buys a meal in a hotel restaurant, nevermind drink.

We get a £120/day guidance on subsidence, which is too include food and hotel. In major European cities, this can be a bit more.

But, as academic we are largely just spending our own pots of money - so if it doesnt go round, thats one less trip to be able to go on!

One of the guys has just come back from a 10 day [s]jolly[/s] business trip to Oz the hotel bill was $3350

Thanks, that's broadly what I'd expected. Clearly the HMRC rate of £15 is "a bit out of date".

It's supposed to reflect the cost of having a meal. Which it is if you're eating a normal meal in a normal restaurant in a normal industrial estate Premier Inn type place.

If you wanted to spend (and claim) more that would be a perk of your job (benefit in kind), and therefore taxable.

Once the initial novelty of having an allowance to spend has worn off, it's actually bloody difficult to spend £15 every night for more than a few days without needing to join the Chub Club thread!

By the end of week 3 I was happy buying a salad to eat and spending the remainder on cakes for the office.

I had a month in East London just before Christmas and £15 barely buys a meal in a hotel restaurant, nevermind drink.

Barely. So it does buy you a meal like it's supposed to? And drink is hardly a legitimate expense is it?

Daily subsistence allowance for the UK - £210 ( £259 for that London ).

You book your own hotel.

It's supposed to reflect the cost of having a meal. Which it is if you're eating a normal meal in a normal restaurant in a normal industrial estate Premier Inn type place.

If you wanted to spend (and claim) more that would be a perk of your job (benefit in kind), and therefore taxable.

no it isn't. its the rate HRMC will allow you to be paid without submitting receipts.

I can, and frequently do spent considerably more than that and am not taxed on it. I do have to submit receipts, and its declared on my P11D.

It's supposed to reflect the cost of having a meal. Which it is if you're eating a normal meal in a normal restaurant in a normal industrial estate Premier Inn type place.
If you wanted to spend (and claim) more that would be a perk of your job (benefit in kind), and therefore taxable.

just pay actual's then and tell them not to take the piss.

We too have a "don't take the proverbial" policy.

What that means in real life is that you buy your own lunch and put the evening meal on expenses. And if said evening meal happens to include a couple of pints then so be it.

Where I work it is –
£10 for breakfast (only if you leave home before 6.30am)
£10 for lunch
£20 allowance for evening meal, can include 1 alcoholic drink

Hotels are booked by the company through a travel agent, max of approx. £70-75 per night which often even puts Premier Inn’s out of budget so they will book a room only with no breakfast (nonsensical as I then claim breakfast back under above rules anyway so they aren’t actually saving anything)

£20 for an evening meal can prove tricky when you are relying on hotel restaurants with nothing else around (our work is often in quite remote locations)

I once travelled to a meeting leaving the house at 5am (and got back well after 9pm), because of heavy traffic on the way down I ended up pushed for time so didn’t have time to stop for anything to eat until 3pm at which point I had a burger and chips from Gloucester services, a bottle of water with the meal took me to £10.43 and my subsequent claim got refused. I was told I had to get approval for the extra 43p from the group finance director
This was the same day the company (a large multi-national) had issued their second rather large profit warning of the year, I don’t think my 43 pence would have been his top priority and sorting it would definitely have cost more than a few pence!
It really annoyed me as I could easily have booked a hotel and gone down the day before, and even stayed over the night after, which many more senior people in our place would have done so instead of a possible £190 odd of expenses they split hairs over 43p
Until then I was not fussed by claiming everything back, since they pi$$ed me about I now make sure I always get as close to the maximum allowances regardless even if it involves sticking receipts in for bags of crisps etc

Our policy is:

£10 for breakfast
£10 for lunch only payable if away for more than 24 hours
£25 for evening meal

Plus £25 per night for staying away fro more than 3 nights.

Plus hotel up to £150.

£25 allowance for dinner. As others have mentioned its pretty hard to spend that night after night

I get hotel, breakfast and a 3 course meal with one drink and £15 for entertainment.

We get paid actuals.

policy is 'don't take the piss'.

+1.

My manager generally looks at the overall cost of the trip - if you've found a budget hotel he'll not be bothered if you've done £40 on dinner.

I was told I had to get approval for the extra 43p from the group finance director

That sort of asshattery always makes me laugh. It's cost the company more than 45p in wages by rejecting it even before the Director has anything to do with it (and does the Director not have anything better to do?)

Until then I was not fussed by claiming everything back, since they pi$$ed me about I now make sure I always get as close to the maximum allowances regardless even if it involves sticking receipts in for bags of crisps etc

Mate of mine does this, has a bit of a game to try and get it to the nearest penny. Probably earns three times what I do too, could peel an orange in his pocket that boy.

First job out of uni in mid 2000s was £35 food and board, you could barely stay in a crack den for that.

We get a £120/day guidance on subsidence

Sounds like you're on shaky ground there.

[Like]

Claiming actuals seems to be standard these days, I much preferred just getting a fixed sum and spending more or less than that depending how I felt. As long as the fixed sum was reasonable, that is (which was not always the case, but overall it worked out ok over the years). Collecting every piddling receipt on a week long trip is pretty annoying expecially as it's almost impossible to get all of them eg public transport that swallows spent tickets without warning, shared meals where several people need the receipt...

Back to the point. I recently quoted $50 per day as an estimate for meals (including breakfast), and that worked out quite reasonably when it came to doing the claim.

think ours works out at around £48 per night spent away. No need to put receipts etc in, just claim the daily allowance (company expense system does it all for you). We are supposed to stay in company approved hotels booked through the company system (usually they have preferred rates/rooms that are defaulted to) but if we're on a longer term project we have the option of sorting out our own accommodation (once we have got authorisation).

As such I'm currently using AirBnB and staying in some lovely apartments (and some not so great) and having a much nicer time of it. It works out no more expensive than the company hotels (usually quite a bit cheaper) and I get to actually cook and make my own lunch to take into work if I can be bothered plus I still get the same daily allowance.

My employer will not pay any food or drink expenses for travel within the UK.

Be grateful your employer isn't HMRC.... 🙄

I am on the hmrc rates 🙁

I'm allowed £65 for hotel/b&b, plus breakfast.

It can work - I was in Aberdeen Hilton last night for £61 with breakfast, however the evening meal was sh*te served in a chain pub.

It's more the meals I struggle with.

[I]Barely. So it does buy you a meal like it's supposed to? And drink is hardly a legitimate expense is it?[/I]

Main course and a desert plus a soft drink and coffee to finish. Won't get that for £15 in a Beefeater (which are attached to many Premiers).

And why can't I have an alcoholic drink, or more. I would at home so why not when working away?

Although for me it's irrelevant now as I work for myself so I put whatever I want on the bill - in the past though I've had many arguments with bean-counters over expenses. Never lost a penny, there's always a way 🙂

I'm allowed £65 for hotel/b&b, plus breakfast.

Whoever is down on the 15 quid all in dinner must travel to some strange places. Warrington was my usual destination - after a long drive the only real option (6-7 years ago) was something off the room service menu coming in about 20 quid. After that if the restaurant was open hard to go under 20 quid for even a salad with something else. McD's is not somewhere I'd like to be forced to eat on expenses.

Again 7 years ago we were looking at 100/night Dinner B&B and that was only possible with a good hotel rate, could easy get to 110. I hear things have got more expensive since then.

I agree mikewsmith, and I'm not expecting huge amounts, we are a charity.
However the powers that be rarely travel as I and a colleague do, and the FD when last traveling was happy to treat it as a jaunt - hubby came along and they paid for nice meals together.
New CEO in a couple of months, so one of my gripes will be aired...

yeah it's honestly one of those things that winds me up more than anything. I shouldn't be worse off after a trip away and I shouldn't have to spend hours trying to find a fleapit to stay in or somewhere to serve me decent healthy food within budget.

(Edit I do also happily spend my own money and have some great meals in nice places when I'm travelling if I want to - also went to the cricket one evening)

My previously employer issued us with a Visa&amex cards plus whatever amount we wanted in local currency or USD (I usually took $2k). They picked up all hotel/food/hire cars where needed etc, basically anything needed whilst working away. Also paid between £21 (UK), up to £29 (3rd world shitholes) per day tax free, and also gave us an extra days holiday for every Sunday whilst away which you never got to take so had them paid at a full days normal pay.
I normally did 9-10minths away usually at upto 3 month stints.

Stayed in some great hotels but then also some flea ridden dumps, never had any expenses questioned.

£15 for an evening meal?

Quite easy to do.

And why can't I have an alcoholic drink, or more. I would at home so why not when working away?

If you'd have it at home it's not a legitimate business expense, it has to come out of your own pocket

Quite easy to do.

Some examples?

Really you can't think of how to feed one person for £15.

Easily, but in readily available places in a city or large town that don't involve fish and chips or a takeaway etc.

As a minimum 10 quid for a main plus a soft drink or 2 and you are at the 15 quid mark, it's a very tight allowance. As I said if to keep under that I need to spend a heap of time finding somewhere it's self defeating. I spent the best part of 10 years travelling for work in the UK and a good chunk of the last 4 here in Oz. My general minimum for eating while on work is clean, tidy, served on a plate, healthy options available.

As a minimum 10 quid for a main plus a soft drink or 2 and you are at the 15 quid mark, it's a very tight allowance.

I'd say you're bang on budget then. I think we pay £25 though.

How about a nice healthy Thai salad for £7

http://mythairestaurant.co.uk/leeds-merrion-centre/

and generally searching for the 10 quid main meal will cost the company another 25 quid in my time. Most of the time ridiculously tight expenses policies are undone - I know for the worst offender we would add another 30 mins on to the day for getting messed around.

edit
Well done you found one....
Just my experience, if you expect someone to spend their time away from home look after them. It's not a jolly and spending 20-30 quid on a meal in somewhere nice and comfortable is very little to ask in return.

Just my experience, if you expect someone to spend their time away from home look after them. It's not a jolly and spending 20-30 quid on a meal in somewhere nice and comfortable is very little to ask in return.

Maybe but for tax purposes it's set at £15 if you want something a bit more special then that's a luxury so you're taxed.

Maybe but for tax purposes it's set at £15 if you want something a bit more special then that's a luxury so you're taxed.

and for the OP 150-250/night depending on where it is, remember easter is mid April so prices will go up for accomodation etc. This is a figure you will be charging them so how you pay it to yourself is up to you.

Tbh when I had someone else picking up the bill I'd go for a decent meal and squeeze as much in as I could so no judgement here. These days I'm self employed so even though the taxman will pay for a bit of it most of it comes out of my pocket so I'm much more careful. A supermarket salad or a selection of nibbles. A cheap resterant, or not picking the steak if I do end up somewhere posher. I even take a Tupperware of leftovers some days, just like I would eat at home. Drink squash in the hotel and water when I go out, mostly because I'm trying to cut down on sugary drinks but it's quite a cost saving too. All very boring and I can see what cougar says that a nice meal is a little perk to make up for being away. Just pointing out you can spend a lot less but I freely admit I only really do it when it's my money I'm saving.

just like I would eat at home

Exactly that!! I guess I'm now poacher turned gamekeeper now being a bean-counter rather than living of the fat of an expense account..

Very few people who claim expenses seem to get the point that, regardless of whether or not you're away from home you would still have to provide yourself with an evening meal. Overnight allowances are set as a contribution to partially offset the inconvenience and not to pay for the entire cost someone's jolly night out

regardless of whether or not you're away from home you would still have to provide yourself with an evening meal.

Ridiculous statement.

now being a bean-counter

You can tell.

I try not to eat cheap, processed food when I am at home. I can prepare a meal at home for the 2 of us, with fresh, good quality ingredients for less than £10. Can't do that when eating out.

However, when I travel for work, you expect me to eat at a Harvester or Wetherspoons in order to keep within £15?

Luckily my employer is very easy going on our expenses, including alcohol. The hotel they normally use next to our head office isn't that expensive for the room but the restaurant is. 15 - 20 euro for a starter and 15 - 30 euro for the main.

Very few people who claim expenses seem to get the point that, regardless of whether or not you're away from home you would still have to provide yourself with an evening meal. Overnight allowances are set as a contribution to partially offset the inconvenience and not to pay for the entire cost someone's jolly night out

If the company sends me away from friends and family for the night they can certainly pay for me to have a decent meal. Unless they'd rather pay me for the full 24 hours of my day, of course. And yes, I'd say a glass of wine or a pint with my meal is perfectly reasonable.

We're £10 for breakfast, £25 for evening meal and £120 hotel rate cap (although there is some flexibility in that as they realise it's pointless you having to take a £10 taxi journey each way as the hotel in walking distance was £130). I think those amounts are fine personally, as I rarely stay away these days I guess I take the piss a bit and nudge the limits for the evening meal but I think that's fine given it's me staying in a hotel room for the company's sake rather than being at home where I'd prefer to be.

Very few people who claim expenses seem to get the point that, regardless of whether or not you're away from home you would still have to provide yourself with an evening meal. Overnight allowances are set as a contribution to partially offset the inconvenience and not to pay for the entire cost someone's jolly night out

Good troll!

If a company was only going to 'partially offset' the inconvenience of me being away from home, then they arn't going to have me working for them for very long. Or anyone else I imagine.

Why stop at the food bit? Surely they need a roof over their heads every other night of the week - they should be contributing towards the cost of the hotel too 🙂

Thankfully my employer ins't such an arse. We don't have guidelines other than be sensible.

IME experience employees with expenses eat in decent restaurants, contractors pick something up from the supermarket. So it depends on who's paying as what's acceptable.

My employer sets hotel limits based on what feasible for a decent hotel/breakfast at the project location then £30 for evening meal. I used to get the same deal 15 years ago so not kept track with inflation - IT consultancy isn't what it used to be....

[I]I agree mikewsmith, and I'm not expecting huge amounts, we are a charity.
However the powers that be rarely travel as I and a colleague do, and the FD when last traveling was happy to treat it as a jaunt - hubby came along and they paid for nice meals together.
New CEO in a couple of months, so one of my gripes will be aired... [/I]

Been there.

I worked in Internal Audit for years, often +4 nights per week away (plus weekends if in Asia/US) and having a restrictive policy was a total PITA. Yes, fine for folk who get one trip a year but when it's your job to be away different rules should (and mostly did) apply.

Always got bean counters complaining, but just suggesting that we meet to discuss and giving them options outside of THEIR working hours normally got the point over.

I remember one of my Dutch colleagues reaction was to then only travel in work time, so no more Sunday starts for flights, or before 8am starts etc. And telling the finance department to book his hotels (you quickly find out that the cheapest hotels often require a big taxi fare).

I am on the hmrc rates

I'm allowed £65 for hotel/b&b, plus breakfast.

It can work - I was in Aberdeen Hilton last night for £61 with breakfast, however the evening meal was sh*te served in a chain pub.

That would go down like a lead balloon in my office, and probably result in everyone refusing to travel.

I regularly travel to Glasgow, Nantes, Bristol and a few other places.
£65 gets you very little in those places at short notice.

We do have company guidelines, but they are generally only referred to if someone is taking the p*ss.

I usually try to stay under £100 per night for hotel/breakfast (sometimes difficult dependant on location/time of year) and £30 for an evening meal.

I'm pretty sensible with it though. Last time I went to Glasgow I got a bus/coach from the airport into the city centre for £7, rather than spending £20+ on a taxi.

Last time I went to Delft we bought breakfast from the supermarket as I thought 29 euros for hotel breakfast was outrageous.

I've done the whole 'stay in a B&B and get something from the chip shop for dinner' routine in the past, and won't be going back there.

My employer will not pay any food or drink expenses for travel within the UK.

Don't go, then. I wouldn't.

All very boring and I can see what cougar says that a nice meal is a little perk to make up for being away.

Not so much a "perk," more like compensation really.

Very few people who claim expenses seem to get the point that, regardless of whether or not you're away from home you would still have to provide yourself with an evening meal. Overnight allowances are set as a contribution to partially offset the inconvenience and not to pay for the entire cost someone's jolly night out

1) Cooking at home and eating out are clearly disparate costs. I had spaghetti bolognaise last night - total cost of ingredients, oh, £2 maybe? Add another quid if I wanted a beer or glass of wine with it. What's that going to set me back in a city centre restaurant?

2) Once the initial novelty has worn off it's not a jolly, it's a pain in the wotsits. You're ostensibly on work's time without pay for half the day, sat in a hotel / restaurant / pub on your own with your thumb up your arse for hours on end. Paying for a half decent meal is the least they can do, really.

1) Cooking at home and eating out are clearly disparate costs. I had spaghetti bolognaise last night - total cost of ingredients, oh, £2 maybe? Add another quid if I wanted a beer or glass of wine with it. What's that going to set me back in a city centre restaurant?

£7 for the food maybe £4 for a beer.

Well done you found another one Drac. Most hotels I stayed in back in the UK were not that flash but had nothing on the menu under £20, as much as I want to spend my evenings finding places that sell £7 mains I generally can't be arsed as I've already worked a decent day and I'm away from home.

That menu has a 10oz sirloin steak, with a side and sauce for £16.

Decent quality UK sirloin costs about £20 a kilo. A restaurant normally works on 3 to 4 times uplift on ingredient cost, so that probably means imported frozen Argentinian beef or worse.

No thanks.

6 quid for breakfast. 25 quid for an evening meal.

Not sure how far thats going to go in norway at the end of the month!!!

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/385/32222106451_899801ceb9_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/385/32222106451_899801ceb9_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/R6mHDv ]2017-01-16_07-04-00[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
cheapest places were worse and more expensive than my local, short of going to McD's etc or the local kebab shop things generally cost more especially in the middle of school holidays in a tourist place. Thankfully I get about £70/day for all that.

Don't go, then. I wouldn't.

Drac, that restaurant sounds fine, except that the mileage to eat there will be £279, and take 5 hours each way...
Thanks everyone, I've given my client a price for 13 days attendance, it has a reasonable per diem and some float for nice food. Not too nice, mind 😉

[i]Drac, that restaurant sounds fine,[/I]

Two courses, a beer and a coffee is still more than £15.

My current set up is based on being "reasonable".

So, not eating at Michelin starred restaurants, but not buying from the reduced aisle in Tesco. Couple of beers with a meal is fine, bottle of wine on my own wouldn't be. Hotels are good, but not uber top end. Neither The Ritz nor a Travelodge.

Two courses, a beer and a coffee is still more than £15.

Yes it is well done you.

Neither The Ritz nor a Travelodge.

I don't really mind a Travelodge for 1 or 2 nights.

IME basic but clean and comfortable beds. You also get a bottle opener which is nice.

I would rather spend less on a room and more on food and drink.

For longer trips, self catering FTW. Eat out if you want, or cook exactly what you want. Saves a fortune.

Up on the west coast of Scotland for a week, 6 of us rented one of those huge 6 bedroom country houses, ate and lived like Kings and saved a small fortune compared to a hotel.

is it ok to expense bike hire if i'm missing my regular thursday night mtb ride?

work wouldn't let me book my bike on the plane!

It'd be fine by me, except that I suspect that you don't work for me...

I put a few months Gold gym membership onto expenses when working in the US. Oh and hiring a Tuxedo for a trip to Atlantic City, getting there in a stretched limo. In the good old days that was....

Allowances ? Those sound like expenses policy rather than allowance.

We get expenses covered and a % uplift on salary to cover the working away aspect.

Normally premier inn, breakfast is included in the room price, and any reasonable meal in the evening, about £20 seems fair.

I could put expence in for lunch but I usually rob a few yogurts and bananas from the breakfast bar, less hassle 🙂

There was one time me and 3 workmates were staying at an independent hotel for a few weeks, we got told to cool it after the first week as the restaurant just charges our meals to the company card..

Apparently 5 pints and fillet steak every night was taking the mick!

When working away, it's usually a 10-12 hour day "on the tools". Go to nearest pub / restaurant (Hungry horse when up at Pinewood) . Usually meal and a pudding and a pint then back to digs ( only thing I insist on these days is en suite). Too bloody tired to worry about the finer things in life 😆