[Closed] Alcoholism - where to start helping a mate?

You cant. The only person who can help him is himself.

He will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, hide until he reaches his personal rock bottom. Then you can offer help. Until he gets there, there really isnt much you can do.

Edit... sorry if that sounds harsh, but I've lost two people to the booze, one was my brother. Held his hand as he breathed his last.

Unfortunately, Lowey is pretty spot on.

One of my mates recently went the same way. He died a few years ago in his early 40's of liver failure

The key thing is that he needs to want to change, I don't think you have to wait for them to hit rock bottom before offering help. You do need to try to protect yourself from the lies, manipulation and emotional pain, if you do choose to get involved.

Only you here know your mate, there are many different reasons for being an alcoholic, but mostly it comes down to being unhappy with life and a form of self-medication. If this is the case, you need to try and highlight that there is something better to aim for.

Some good advise here....

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/dealing-with-an-alcoholic/

You cant. The only person who can help him is himself.

He needs to acknowledge he has a problem.  If you try to help before he does you're likely to drive him further away.  That's why intros at AA begin with "My name is X and I'm an alcoholic".

Which doesn't help you much right now

Take him out for a surprise evening, but turn up to an AA meeting.

He has gone beyond rational decision making.  You might have to force the solution down his neck.  Alternatively print out this thread and mail it to him in the post anonymously.

To echo the above, you can't and if you try you'll likely end up being an enabler of his bad habit. Bite your tongue, watch the slide and be there to help when he asks and not before. I hope it all works out.

Get the beers in?

I have a family member in a pretty bad state. As above,not much you can do but support every time they try to stop.& despair & offer more support when they relapse .  We’ve tried family meetings / one  on one chats, all sorts .  🙁

My brother in law is very much on the route to self destruction.  He's mid 20's and already has serious signs of damage to his health.  I can't remember the last time i saw him where he wasn't pissed and when anyone tries to have a rational conversation about it, his response is "**** the world".

Alright mate, you do that.  I'll carry on with my life....

Spot on re denial, i know someone with a gambling problem and unless he admits there is a problem and wants to get over it, nothing will happen.  Look on the various addiction websites, i ticked off the first 10 characteristics for gambling with said person.  I suspect alcoholism and other addictions are similar.

Very sad, it affects everyone around them.  Tread carefully getting involved, good luck.

Whilst the others who have plenty of experience and may well be right, you need to talk to him openly and honestly and see what reaction you get from him. If he's in total denial then he's lost, but if he acknowledges he has serious issues then there's still hope for him.

Don't be too quick to write him off, would you want to be at his funeral thinking "I should have done something"?

I can’t remember the last time i saw him where he wasn’t pissed and when anyone tries to have a rational conversation about it, his response is “**** the world”

Is that a drink problem or a mental health problem? Many people use alcohol and/or other drugs to deal with other problems. It may not be the safest way to deal with things but for many It's the only form of medication that's available to them. It's far easier to buy some booze than it is to go down the GPs and start the process of getting professional help. One of the issues of dealing with alcohol/drug abuse is that too often that is seen as the main problem, rather than a symptom of underlying issues. Of course once an addiction exists it makes it doubly hard to address the real problems.

For the OP, maybe try to get to the bottom of why your friend is drinking instead of going in all guns blazing about him being an alcoholic?

First of all do what you can directly, then when your at his funeral you wont wish you tired harder.

Also call AA and see what they say.

Ask him what wrong with his life, something is causing it which should / could be tackled.  Drinking is a response to something, which he/you or both of you could start to deal with.

as a slight counterpoint, to some of the doom - all hope is not yet lost.

A mate was suffering, desperate to get off booze. We formed a team and pretty much babysat him 24/7 weaning him down off drink - took his wallet, the works (with his consent) - for a week. We actually had to do this a few times over 3 years until we could get him into rehab. He's now 14 months clean and is in college, re-doing the course he dropped out of 20 years ago. I've got my fingers crossed.

But the key thing is, he was ready to be helped. Someone who is in denial would never do that. And even then it was hard - he had to swallow a lot of pride to let his friends basically take over his life for him.

Good luck OP. Another old friend of mine died from the booze just last week. It's ****ing heartbreaking.

For the OP, maybe try to get to the bottom of why your friend is drinking instead of going in all guns blazing about him being an alcoholic?

yeah this - it may well be something like panic attacks or anxiety that is causing them to use booze as a crutch. Both of which tend to be exacerbated by hangovers and comedowns, but sometimes when it hits people just don't know any other way of getting through the next 5 minutes.

You cant. The only person who can help him is himself.

This.

An old friend from A levels I knew, and knocked about with, for a good few years was an alcoholic by the age of 17.. He ended up in all sorts of financial trouble, relationships trouble, family trouble and friendship trouble... I tried to help him, tried to stand by him, lent him £3k to pay off court fines (which was a loan, never seen the repayment of BTW) and it was this last straw that ended the friendship.. oh that and him accusing me of sleeping with his girlfriend.. pretty much the last straw that. Confrontation ensued and he stood by his tramp of a girlfriend who was s****ing behind his back whilst he was laying into me.. nice girl.

Came to the conclusion they were right for each other, turned my back and left the sorry bastard to it.

Last I heard he was shagging some 17yr old Mark Warner kitchen employee in some resort where he was working.. he was 42 at the time.

Pathetic human.

Is that a drink problem or a mental health problem? Many people use alcohol and/or other drugs to deal with other problems.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">As right as you are, it’s almost irrelevant because so long as consistent drinking is present, you won’t get mental health services to touch him.</span>

"As right as you are, it’s almost irrelevant because so long as consistent drinking is present, you won’t get mental health services to touch him"

Not completely true.  Counselling is available for active addicts (of any sort) who show a willingness to engage in the service, which in turn, can be a gateway into psych services...

My g/f has a drink problem, she knows it and really wants to stop, but she has underlying issues which she struggles with and wants help with, but getting the psychological help has been a struggle. She’s been going to Turning-Point, but the local one hasn’t been as much of a help as the one in her home city, and we did go to a local AA meeting, but tbh it really wasn’t much help. Hopefully there is some professional help in the offing, so we’ll see; she’s certainly better than she was around six months ago when we first got together. It’s a slow process, though.

First step is tell him you are worried and willing to help, if that doesnt work you'll just have to wait.

Point of note with the AA - on their famous "12 step programme," step 3 is "find god" (and IIRC half of the other steps are goddy too).  They might well be able to offer advice and it's surely worth a shot, but if the patient were me then it'd put me right off. I'd be more likely to drink myself to death than buy in to religion.

I come from a long line of functioning alcoholics that oddly didn't  drink during the day. I have inherited some of this and currently I need a few  beers to take the edge off most nights.

I would get very anxious without some alcohol.

It's not easy.

It's a GOD of ones own understanding  (G.O.D= Good Orderly Direction).... doesn't have to be a religious deity..... only thing you can do for you mate is to be there to help pick up the pieces, he is the only one who can help him.....

I have inherited some of this and currently I need a few  beers to take the edge off most nights.

That doesn't sound like alcoholism to me assuming we're talking about physical dependency causing problematic behaviour. If we're talking regular drinking then most people in the country could be classed as alcoholics, myself included.

As an aside, introduce your friend to St Peter's Brewery Plum Porter. My god that awful stuff almost put me off beer for life. (This is in no way trying to diminish his condition, just a bit of humour).

If you get chance later, have a listen to today's Five Live Nicky Campbell that's on now (9-10).Its got alcoholics talking about how they successfully packed in the booze, so may give you a bit of an insight into the mindset.

Some horrendous stories. A guy who'd manage a bottle of wine before 9 in the morning.

But all of them are on there as they've managed to knock it on the head

Agree with Daz that alcoholism tends to be someone self-medicating to try and deal with more deep-seated and fundamental mental health issues

If you get chance later, have a listen to today’s Five Live Nicky Campbell that’s on now

Got it on now. Mrs Daz used to be a drug worker so heard some alarming stories. Worst one was a woman who would drink 8 litres of white cider a day. The most tragic stories are the ones where alchoholics try to go cold turkey and end up killing themselves after having seizures.

FIL is alcohol dependent, in complete denial about it, as he does not see himself as an alcoholic. It does not help that a friend of his is a long term alcoholic who really struggles with the stronger stuff. The FIL does not see the similarities, he only denies being an alcoholic because he does not drink spirits. Really tough to help when he does not see there is a problem. Unfortunately it will take a serious health related event to help him change. OH does not phone him after 6 as he is usually a little drunk already, and getting any sense out of him is tough.

My partner has struggled with mental health issues as a result of him being an alcoholic since she was young (other things too), she used an NHS online support and telephone support line. It really worked for her, just having someone to talk to about it, I think it was a 3 month structured support. Ultimately the mental health issues worked for my OH as she identified a problem, FIL will keep on how he is as he cannot identify that there is an issue.

I think others are right, it will be a rock bottom moment that kicks in the 'i have to do something' mode.

Best thing you can do is be there when that time comes? The 'nagging' about him having to do something and see help could make things worse, but I do not know the guy, so the offer of help and support could help.

Good luck and hope he can turn things around.

FIL is alcohol dependent, in complete denial about it, as he does not see himself as an alcoholic.

IMO the word alcoholic gets bandied about far too much. It comes with so much stigma and prejudice that it's hardly a surprise most people who may be alcholol dependent deny it. It's the same as calling someone a junkie. It may sound like politically correct do-goodery but using the phrase 'dependent alcohol user' is probably far better.

In many cases I reckon people described as alcoholics are not dependent at all. They may be heavy drinkers and that may cause problems which need to be dealt with but that can be done without using the alcoholic label.  It's very much the prerogative of the person themselves to identify themselves as an alcoholic, and not others. All others can do is help and guide them to making a rational assessment of their situation and whether they need or want help.

That doesn’t sound like alcoholism to me assuming we’re talking about physical dependency causing problematic behaviour. If we’re talking regular drinking then most people in the country could be classed as alcoholics, myself included.

It can be counted as alcoholism if it's become something you depend on, even if it's not so much a physical dependency, but a coping with stress/etc dependency.

Been looking at the units I've been consuming per week. I'm no piss head, but the amount was getting to two or three times the max recommended per week. Not down the pub drinks, just regular drinks in the evening with a meal, that extends to a few more, or worse with wine. When the amount you drink used to cause a hangover but doesn't any more as you've become tolerant is also a signal.

I know it's been affecting things but not that anyone would notice. Knowing people who've died of liver failure and were pretty similar in that no one knew there was an issue, I've been trying to sort it out. The temptation to pick up a bottle or two of something each day when in the local shop is the tricky one. Counting the units is helping though. Put a mental limit on the number per week. Plus finding substitutes that are no booze but fine for an evening drink.

If it's a psychological dependency, mental control can work. A physical dependency though may be far more difficult.

He needs to see the Dr first, often drinking is related to depression and anxiety. He may not be an alcoholic, instead he could be depressed and using alcohol as a coping mechanism.

If he is a reserved person then he may need some counselling to open up more about his problems. Or he may need a change of job. When I've been drinking heavily it is always because there is something wrong, normally with my job.

Is this you Dec?

love Ant

Cheers for all the comments folks - been reading and taking it all in.

I'm hopefully he's not a lost cause as he's already started to seek professional help. I don't doubt that there are some underlying issues - some of which I'm aware of - but I couldn't bear to be stood at his funeral thinking "I wish I'd done more".

I'll try to engineer some time to have a decent chat and see if he'll open up and try and support him as much as I can (and his partner, who is no doubt having a shit time). It's about finding the right time though as I'm pretty sure he's beating himself up over the dependency and pretty depressed about it all - which is a viscous circle.

The AA abstinence approach is one way of dealing with alcohol dependence that can work for some people, but is less effective for most than harm reduction approaches (drink less, and only drink turps if you have to).

It's always been popular in America (they're more into religion and prohibition etc). Which is why a lot of their substance misuse services aligned with mental health, to keep poor folk away from the swivel eyed nutters telling them the first step to addressing a problem is to accept they've no control.

Trouble is that through TV the AA language is all around and uncritically accepted as fact....

If we’re talking regular drinking then most people in the country could be classed as alcoholics, myself included

....sounds like denial to me.

Anyway, sounds like the OP's mate knows he needs to lay off it. Cuppa instead of a pint? Christ i dunno.

It’s about finding the right time though as I’m pretty sure he’s beating himself up over the dependency and pretty depressed about it all

The answer to that is simple. Invite him down the pub. You'll be on neutral territory, in an environment he's comfortable in, and alcohol is wonderful at getting people to open up. I know that sounds like you'll be encouraging and enabling him, but honestly this isn't going to be solved with a holier than thou approach and it's not going to be solved quickly so what's the harm? You'll also get an opportunity to see just how bad it's got.

I kind of sometimes think maybe I dabble with it, I'll go through phases of drinking fairly heavy (25 or 30 units a night) on consecutive nights, for a week or two. It doesn't feel like a dependency, just a reaction to the stresses of day to day life, but it also feels in control, not a problem to take a break - also, like the chap above, because I almost never drink anything stronger than lager (and normal premium, 5%, rather than rocket fuel), that fuels my denial.

But I watched Louis Theroux's Drinking To Oblivion last night, bit of an eye-opener, and I think useful research for anyone investigating the subject. I'm some way from the poor souls in that, but aware that I'm playing the same game at a lower level.

Way back up this thread someone said that i may not be an alcoholic due to the fact i don't roll out of bed and need a drink.

I have always been brutally honest about my alcohol intake with everyone I come into contact with (family and work) I need alcohol to suppress my "life" it's no more complicated than that and without it I struggle to keep going.

Hence my self diagnosis of a functioning alcoholic, in as much that I have a need to drink most nights.

I don't have a problem with it? Others may worry about it in my life but that's the negative element to this type of situation. I am fortunate that when my body converts alcohol into a toxin - mine is a very low level toxin so I don't get hangovers.

The view that alcohol is a negative influence in all situations (,the temperance movement) is frankly bollocks, I have some friend's who are Mormons and god knows (irony) they need a drink.

When my drinking spills over (more irony)I to the daylight hours I will probably wander off to AA.

P.s been to the pub and had 5 pints of Black Sheep Month Python IPA.......... and it's a Tuesday ohh  the decadence of it all.

I’ll go through phases of drinking fairly heavy (25 or 30 units a night) on consecutive nights, for a week or two.
...
I almost never drink anything stronger than lager (and normal premium, 5%, rather than rocket fuel)

Correct me if I'm wrong but by my reckoning that's 12 pints a night?

Ah - my bad  maths. 8 or ten pints, so 18 to 22 units, something like that? Needs to stop, really.

Hence my self diagnosis of a functioning alcoholic, in as much that I have a need to drink most nights.

Think that was me. In the past I often described myself as a functioning alcoholic. Stopped doing it though as people don't understand the 'functioning' bit and instantly think you've got bottles of vodka hidden everywhere, and then start to attribute everything you do or say in the context of alcoholism which quite frankly is bloody annoying. It's amazing how pious some people can suddenly become whenever the A-word crops up.

...to keep poor folk away from the swivel eyed nutters telling them the first step to addressing a problem is to accept they’ve no control.

But that's quite a lot of the point.  If you've got a problem, you know it, really, or part of you does.  My brother (alcoholic, 12 months sober, well done him, very proud indeed) has always wrestled with booze, used it as a way of removing himself from situations and feelings he doesn't like, and had longer and longer periods of abstinence before the current one as he's got better at understanding control, and lack of control.

One saying that's stuck with him is that when you're dependent/abusing alcohol, half your mental activity is devoted to telling yourself bullshit, and the other half is devoted to believing it:  "I deserve a drink, I don't have a problem, I can stop any time I like, I'm getting loads in now so I'll have some for the rest of the week, I'm only going to have one,  I'm not going to AA because I'm not a loser like those guys..."

You're in a mental trap of abuse/dependency that controls you and your thoughts, once you accept that lack of control; once you accept that the bullshit you're telling yourself about the control you have over your drinking is bullshit designed to enable your drinking, you can start believing the stuff that's going to help you stop drinking.

Different strokes for different folks, but it works where it works.  Go back to the start of the thread and the first comments that people have agreed with.   You can't help someone who doesn't want help. You can't help someone who's telling themselves they don't have a problem.  And the problem with alcoholism is lack of control, and to accept help, you have to accept that.

johnx2, just read yours again.

I'm thinking of my brother, who went down that road and found it very useful, and he's found lots of other who've found it useful.  Your experience is different, you'll be thinking about different people in different situations.

dashed, try and find something to do that gives you a bit of time to talk, like a long walk or a bike ride.  Might give you enough time to talk about a few things and get back round to the tricky stuff.  a ten minute cup of tea and a question about drinking will probably get the shutters down, either not wanting to talk about it at all or a breezy reassurance that he went through a bit of a bad patch, but he's through it now.

Give him some time and you might get him to open up.

Thought I should do a quick update on the thread.

I'll keep it brief but I finally caught up with my pal last week - he'd been avoiding calls and texts so I took the day off work and rocked up at his house. He was in a bad way. Way worse than I imagined. Incoherent, shaking like a shitting dog, totally uncoordinated and hyperventilating. We rang 111 and then basically dragged him to A&E. He wasn't keen on going as a) he didn't want to waste NHS time and b) he didn't think they would help (and was worried they'd send him home without any support - he really wanted help).

They didn't - they were amazing. He's been admitted and is on a controlled 5-7 day detox programme as giving up without help isn't an option as too high a risk of seizures and long term damage. Long road ahead but fingers crossed.

Flip.  Well done for going round.  You might have saved his life there.  Good luck to you both.

Good work Dashed! Its a real friend who takes the time and trouble to do that. Fingers crossed that the detox all goes well and he gets back to some semblance of normality