Alcoholic. A danger to herself

Try an find a relative?

Awful situation, has she got any family you can inform? I'm not sure informing the police will be any help, what can they do?

Edit, beaten to it. But if she has any relatives, they should be the first port of call. Kudos to you for what you've done so far, don't feel guilty.

Yeah we could try and find out. I think she has sisters. But I still wonder what they could do?

But I still wonder what they could do? 

What you are already doing. They may not even be aware of how bad she is.

The police will do a welfare check if you are concerened, and will link in with whatever other support there is available (may be pretty limited these days after all the cuts, but there should be something).

Might be worth a 999 next time you find her on the floor - might just kick start social services help if the emergency services have to intervene.

We've a similar situation, house bound, aging man, single, alcoholic etc he's no family and burnt every bridge locally, pissed off all of his neighbours and locals that want to help. Unfortunately with him he can also be verbally abusive and when very drunk much worse. We, being the local shop deliver food twice a week, but used to also check in on him etc.. when at his worst he stopped and damaged a vehicle on the road outside his house and police and social services were involved, and subsequently when he became abusive we contacted social services.
Unfortunately it is a case of getting authorities involved to cover your back as much as helping them.

We also used to get it in the neck from the locals as we used to sell him the alcohol. I'd explain that if we didn't supply it he'd get it from somewhere else and it also gives us the opportunity to check on him regularly. We stopped supplying him after the first police incident after local pressure - now he gets 3x the amount from three different companies and is much worse.

I used to run a taxi and took him to Dr appointments, garden centers etc visited his partner with him pre COVID in hospital and subsequently in care home. But when he became abusive I stopped all that. He now has care in  the community transport - bug I've never seen the same volunteer more than twice.

Social services visit him around once a month, local police will drop by about once every two weeks. I deliver food twice a week, but will leave as soon as I can and don't do anything extra (change light bulbs, bring in wood/coal) like I used to - wife and I will drop off a birthday and we usually pop by on Christmas day for a few mins - but that's about all of the social engagement he has.

Unfortunately if an alcoholic doesn't do anything to help themselves there's not a lot anyone can do.

I lost a 30 year old nephew to drink.

His family did everything they could to try and help but he didn't want to really change.

Social services and make it their issue.  Do it in writing.

If someone does not want to be helped then there is very little anyone else can do unless they do not have capacity in a legal sense  Ultimately you may have to withdraw for your own peace of mind but its tricky to do so.  Its what you get for being compassionate and kind 🙂  Perhaps set a limit on the help you will give?  visit twice a week or something similar?  Maybe a visit early in the day when she may not be drunk and have a chat?

Police do have powers to take someone to a place of safety for assessment but its limited.  I would only do this in extremis ie if she is out in the garden in winter passed out or similar

You could contact local social services and suggest that there's a safeguarding issue If she's vulnerable. But agree with many of the posters above me, limited your time with her, and contact the cops next time she's not answering the door. 

Unfortunately if an alcoholic doesn’t do anything to help themselves there’s not a lot anyone can do.

This. If they have capacity, and it sounds like this lady does, then she's allowed to make her own choices, no matter how horrific they seem to outsiders.

It's very easy to get sucked into situations like this and feel that something must be done and because no one else seems to do it, the responsibility falls to you. It doesn't. This woman is an adult and she is responsible for herself, no one else is.

Work out what your boundaries are. To me they'd be that if she asked me for help, if it was a reasonable request, then I'd try to help her. Unreasonable requests are things that are not easy for you to do, or repeated requests with no signs of change, or requests that you've already declined.

Quite often attempts to help actually make things worse for people with substance misuse problems. By trying to help, we actually protect them from the consequences of their choices, whereas it's only by facing those consequences that they may be likely to change. Unfortunately many of them will go to their deaths before making those changes.

Ok I have emailed the council adult care services and I have requested a police welfare check. Will see what becomes of it. Any more emergencies will just do a 999

thanks

From my experience with my mother (no alcohol involved), who had dementia, it was the ambulance service who achieved help for us that we had been to access. The Fire Service also followed on from that and helped us enormously too. Hope this helps.

Will Young's documentary "My Brother The Alcoholic" is worth a watch to get more insight. Especially the bit when he describes having to throw his brother out the house knowing that it was probably going to end his brother's life and although he was sad, he'd reached the point that he was ok with it.

Been through the same thing with a neighbour. He moved in opposite us and was a nice guy but it soon emerged he was a raging alcoholic. It had led to the breakdown of his marriage.

We had the number of his ex-wife. We had an arrangement where we'd keep a neighbourly eye on him and intervene if we thought there was something really serious going on that needed immediate help but generally, we'd phone her if there were any welfare concerns and she'd come round or get another family member to. A lot of the time intervention just meant calling an ambulance and that was by far the most helpful thing. We had keys to his house to let the paramedics in.

It wasn't easy - I was convinced I'd find him dead one day - but having his family do the heavy lifting meant we were only minimally involved. He did eventually die- - it was all really tragic, but there was nothing we could do to cure him.

We have an alcoholic neighbour, ex soldier, depression, PTSD. He keeps phoning the police / Ambulance as a cry for help. His most recent tactic is to say he has a gun, which triggers a full on armed police siege, to which the street has become quite accustomed. They lay siege of the house en mass, demand he comes out, search him, hand him over to paramedics who take him away for psychiatric assessment. A few hours later he's back and a few days later we have another armed police siege.

He's a really nice, interesting chap, just tormented by daemons and a complete alcoholic. He's been so pissed I've had to help him get dressed to go off with the paramedics (to be released a few hours later).

His rents half a house and the house is now up for sale, so I guess he'll become someone else's problem....

We had similar with elderly lady opposite in her 90's, no alcohol involved, but she had no family at all, she had fall after fall, but would not go in a home, and despite having money squirreled away (she'd happily pay for new kitchen, gardener etc) she would not get a carer.

My wife and i ended up going into her twice daily at one point, to the point my wife (who works 60 hour weeks in NHS) was dressing and washing her etc.

We informed social services etc, and with COVID we restricted our going in, as daughters school was rife with it, wife had it on her ward etc, and we did not want to be the people to pass it to a frail lady, she became quite vile over it.

We had to draw a line and say enough is enough, and after another fall she ended up in a care home, again she ranted for first few weeks, but in the end she apparently is doing well there now.

Remind yourself, you are not related, but there is only so much you can do.

We don’t feel we should be responsible for her

You aren't.

It's great that you want to help but you have to look after yourself. As I've said countless times, if you fall over then you're of no use to anyone else.

Next time you find her on the floor, call an ambulance. You can't help those who won't be helped.

There's nothing your or her family can do until she accepts help.

If you want to help her, but feel you can't do anymore, then the biggest thing you can do is be very frank and honest with her. She may not like it at the time, but hearing from a neighbour that they cannot help you anymore because of the drinking can very much be the turning point for many people. It takes courage though, so good luck!

This struck a chord at the time and just popped into my mind. To the OP: how has the situation panned out?

My mate Dave was an alcoholic, though because I'd known him since starting school, through school, we'd go fishing, in the same scouts so camping out and in respective gardens as kids, then later after he left the army(I think he was forced out) i caught up with him again and got him inot what I was doing then, mainly sailing and racing. Introduced to my mates where he really took to it. Ended up going out with a really nice lass off one of the other boats, and they went away a lot, hiring a yacht in Greece just the two of them.

But I think the drinking was pretty much a constant thing though he managed to get through, until that all ended when one night he burned down their house. She left him after that.

Due to my other mates and sailing stuff, drinking was kind of part of it so i didnt notice he was a problem drinker. He did well, went into social work as a drugs and alcohol counselor(we both drank and took drugs lol, ironic really) got back into camping and he seemed pretty happy as it goes.

But he kept visiting. Every single day, en-route i think to the pub for the daily session, but he'd stop at mine for coffee and weed and it tbh became too much. I'd no time for myself, every day he'd turn up for a few hours, and we'd drink coffee and smoke weed and chat about the past times, all stories and anecdotes.

But every single day was just getting to me. I even pretended to be out a couple of times which i found to be saddening, afterall we'd known each other for near 40 years.

In the end I told him that coming round was getting too much for me and asked him to stop. I was down at that time so maybe didnt handle it in the most diplomatic manner, but I know in my heart i hurt him by asking. and he went downhill for a good while after that. Fights with his family, ended up in some sort of social work accommodation, and although the family arent short of a few quid he never looked to them for support.

Then things started to improve. He got some drugs, anti-psychotics(He'd led a life i shant really go into, knew certain people, was involved quite heavily in the drugs trade, silk road etc etc, i think you know the type of thing. into quite a few fist fights, it was always his thing. I think there was maybe a couple of armed robberies in there 😆 he did slip a few surprises at me over the years made me think that was a possibility. Crazy ****g nutter 😆 I wasnt scared of him,we were too close for that, though just some people you just got to respect to make their own decisions and not be judgemental. He's a mate you know.

But I think by asking him not to come round that wasnt possible the best thing i could have done. I shouldn't have been as abrupt.

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But anyway, he was strong of mind and got himself help, treatment, moved away from the influences, got a flat and i hardly saw him until i got the phone call he'd been found dead in his flat. Seems some of these anti-psychotics and alcohol abuse medicines you cant just stop taking, or apparently they put you in line for the possibility of sudden death and thats what happened.

He most likely felt they were screwing his head too much and decided just to stop taking them.

He was found lying on his back in the middle of the floor, arms by his side and from what i was told in a peaceful position, like he just felt the need to lie down and just passed away at that.

He pops into my head time to time, just because of my own life, which he shared a part and thinking back on events, he's in there too. I miss him for that and indeed blame myself for maybe directing him on a path that he needed to take, but it should have been in his own time, or even not at all. I cant take responsibility for forcing him to give up the drink et all but in truth i did play a part in that, really. But it is what it is.

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So you think you should decide for someone how they should go on sorting themselves, maybe you should think again. Dont be too abrupt or judgemental, or think you know whats best. The truth is you dont and might do more harm than good.

I know people who died before they got clean/sober (ODed, choking, ruptured oesophagus, related diseases etc) and people who died after they got clean/sober, but the latter group is way smaller.

You never know what will happen, but recommending the recovery route is always the better choice imo.

I know you wish you’d handled the conversation better, dyna-ti, and I feel the same about the ones I’ve had. They’re hard conversations and you inevitably come away feeling guilty, like you’re the bad one. It’s the nature of it sadly.

I will say that a very high proportion of the people I know with active substance misuse problems are very good at avoiding taking responsibility for their own actions and deflecting responsibility and blame onto those around them, most often the people who are trying to help them.